Who has a higher burn out rate engineers at FAANG or an Ibanker? If there are other professions that make a lot of money but seem More stressful than the options let us know below!
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- Northrop Grumman HowCouldYuCurious how many are voting iBanker but only ever worked in FAANG
- Those are very nice suits and I greatly admire your good tastes.
I understand. I too relished in putting on my IWC portuguese perpetual calendar everyday as I thought it made me more boss even though it didn't make me any better at my job.
It didn't dull the pain of 2am nights drinking diet coke to stay awake, but the nice ticking sound of the mechanical watch reminded me vividly of the passing seconds that went by that I could never get back, and the steady cadence of my march towards old age and deathApr 255
- You guys just gave me ptsd from when I was in finance. I think I had 25 suits at my peak - Zegna, Kiton, Brioni. Such a waste of money. So many watches, IWC sport watches were my favorite.
Now I work with dudes that wear Crocs to work and complain about the distance to where the car is parked ruining their life.Apr 263
- For what it's worth, I'm glad we're all in better places now.
Although, my worry is that the tech industry is becoming eerily similar to finance. It's disguised in a different way, with Apple watches and company branded hoodies, but the general mentality, hubris, and now slowly also a lack of real innovation, is making the profiles of the two industries strikingly similar.Apr 272
- I think here is what I'm scared about.
5 years ago, we had a few pockets of truly revolutarionary products and small competitors within those bubbles would compete against each other to build a 0 to 1 product. Victors who were hyper focused on customers generally turned out to become great companies. For example, YouTube won the battle in vod, twitch did in live streaming, Facebook did with social media, Netflix in svod, etc etc
Nowadays, the Victors of these pockets are pressured to grow, but don't have any new ideas to continue innovating on. So instead, they're now trying to fight against each other, often copying each other's tech down to the t. Facebook copied snap in insta stories, YouTube launched live streaming and as did Facebook, YouTube and twitch are launching social features to take on fb, YouTube is launching TV and a subscription model to take on Netflix, etc etc
Long story short, it feels like the major tech companies today are more focused on competing against each other than producing new innovative products to serve their customer base, and that scares me. I feel like We've basically moved from what was once a monopolistic model increasingly towards perfect competition, and that's never good :(Apr 272
- New FourHrWkWkIn my experience stress from highest 1)startup founder (with ibankers/public shareholders on your ass) , 2) ibanking, 3) startup with angels on your ass 4) working while medical residency/getting bar exam/ PE exam ; 4) management consulting (sr level and partner) 5) SWE under deadlines and pressure from boss in (1) or (3) 6) management consulting (low-mid level) 7) other tech
Pressure is proportional to financial risk. People get cranky when their paycheck is at risk.May 52
- Twitch UrgentpizaI think trading is a different type of stress. It's high intensity during work hours but you don't take your work home with you. Whereas, your phone number stops ringining if you're in a service job like I banking. And if you're a startup founder, your heart rate never goes down even when you're sleeping as you're probably having nightmares about your product failing or your next fundraiseMay 52
- The closest you can get to 'burning' in Google is using the sauna / steam room 😎
- FAANG salaries will not stay this high. Meanwhile, banking is all cash comp and will always stay crazy high. If I had the credentials (top school) I would have gone iBanking. TC isn’t even comparable after a few years.
- SVPs in FANG are fewer in number than MDs at IBs. For eg last year alone there were 69 new partners at Goldman ( the lowest number of new partners in a decade. Iirc there would be a batch of new partners every 2 years). MD makes 1M in salary alone and seasoned MDs(MDs who have been around making good deals for few years) should be in 8 figure total comp easily. The main reason they can make that much is revenue they bring in is easily attributable to them and their lean team. In tech this hard and comp is shared among 100s or 1000s of engineers under a SVP as opposed to 10 or fewer people working on a billions of dollars deals.
- Difference is FANG make waaaay more money per employee than Goldman Sachs does.
Facebook is similar in size to GS in terms of number of employees but has twice as much revenue and 40% profit margin.
Even if the pie is shared more evenly in FANG than in IB, the pie itself is way bigger.
Also, FAAG hold equity in the hundreds of billions of dollars range, having trillion dollars valuations, so it's not uncommon for equity grants to C suite and SVPs to be in the hundred million range.
- As I've mentioned before, MD base is nowhere near 1mm. Partner base is like 1mm, actually 900k at GS as of a couple of years ago.
MD total comp averages a lot closer to 1mm than 10mm, with base around 400k.
I know that there are probably some big dealmaker MDs that could make tens of millions but there are also some big acquihire directors at FANG that could make a hundred million.
Normal median pay for eng and product at FNG beats IB, across all levels, from new grad to c suite.
- Facebook shitpostsThis is a joke right?
Actual answer depends on personality. If you love the banking hustle, you will thrive in the ibank gutters. If you are not genuinely into engineering, you will hate your life at any tech firm FANG or not. I know people who changed in both directions. Pick a profession you are passionate about and there is no such thing as burn out, but YMMV :)
- Amazon YaJabroniI don’t think this is completely true. I’m at faang, into engineering, and feeling real burnout. Mostly over artificial timelines that force us to move fast and deliver crappy things or build the wrong things due to poor management decisions. At some point, you get tired of fighting with these jokers and become disengaged, chasing timelines instead of value. You also feel like you’re not growing.
No idea how it compares to ibanking. Faang burnout is a very first world problem.Apr 2423
- Amazon trimlp@YaJabroni I’ve had weeks where I did feel burned out but I remember I counted the hours I worked and it was only like 60-70 that week.
For IB, especially boutiques, that’s a slow week and they usually grind out 80-90.
Granted their work does use a lot less brain power (that sounded really douchey) since a lot of work is due diligenceApr 247
- Investment bank employee here. Back office, so no crazy-high TC like the FO gets.
The hours are just a killer. You wake up on Monday knowing that even if you're tired, that's the most rest and energy you're going to have until Saturday morning. It destroys you psychologically. Does tech have these kinds of hours?
I envy the six figure earners in the FO but I don't envy how hard they had to work. And plenty of people burned out before they could make that real money.
- Worked for several banks. In my experience while lots of good/bad things depend on the bank/division/team there one common factor which makes techies life miserable - bureaucracy. It's everywhere: wanna restart web server in qa, update hosts file on your local system, view config file in test env - file a ticket, get it approved and wait for ops to run the command in hour or two, often they'll screw it up, make a typo or command you provided was missing a param - rinse and repeat. Don't want to wait? Call ops directly, hopefully they won't be occupied with talking to other guy in situation like your. 1/3 of your time is sunk into red tape bs, another 1/3 into meetings, the rest is split between coding, design, bug fixes and trying to figure out why the heck am I still here
- Amazon VpYJ78FANG is pretty chill for 80% of devs there at any given time.
20% seems like a lot of people in bad conditions, but at some companies every single dev there is in a fucked up situation: bad management, failing startup, non-tech company with ancient codebase, etc.
Banking is horrible for almost everyone who works there so that the top 1% of execs at the bank can have awesome lives.
- Fidelity Investments alohomora1Consulting and public accounting (esp. Big 4) can be brutal and burnout is fairly high. 60+ hr work weeks + 90% travel was very common (at least for me). But the comment about personality type by 'shitposts' is bang on.
- IB hands down. I worked in IB FO and had 100-110 hr weeks every week. There is no Monday Tuesday Saturday Sunday, they’re all the same days. Comp was awesome but you had no opportunity to spend it. About 1 year into it I woke up not knowing whether it was Sunday or Thursday and that scared the bejeezus out of me. I didn’t feel burnt out because I’ve always enjoyed a chaotic work environment. Now I’m at a pre-IPO company and there are long days but it’s not at the frantic pace of my IB days
- FaNG guys are bunch of high paid cry babies.. Suck it up and work in the pit at a bank w crazy managers pushing like madmen... No time for lunch or coffee or free gourmet lunches
- Facebook EuclideanWorked in both industries - trading in a bank and a hedge fund.
It's not close. FB is a cakewalk in comparison.
- Can confirm, worked at a fund and now af a faang. What people whine about at tech would get you punched in the face at a proper bank. I've heard people complain about cursing in tech office. Such delicate flowers.
The hours aren't event close. In banking I had to get up at 330am every morning (west coast). In tech if I roll in much before 9 I'm the one turning on the lights. I drink a lot less now too.
- Banking, law, and medicine all have far greater hours and stress than FAANG. We found the cheat code.
- He bills it but he doesn’t get it. Biglaw actually pays similar for the same amount as tenure as Facebook (the formula is 160k to start up to like 300ish for 8 years), and you work far more hours. It’s also up or out — if you don’t make partner as most don’t you have to go in house counsel and get paid less, but you can coast at 5 forever.
- Amazon eyshWork - hard long and smart. You can’t choose 2 out of 3 at Amazon. Good thing comes in threes. 😛
- For those of you who haven't heard of IB, does investment banking not exist as a career in India?
- Banking > consulting >> FANG in terms of both hours and job satisfaction. This is the common understanding in top business schools.
- Honestly I've worked 100+hour weeks in several different industries and there's no rule of thumb to this. I will say in banking if the expectation is 100+hours and you don't do it you'll get fired faster than in tech where they'll try to give you a second shot in most decent companies like Google
- Snapchat idkfa.Unless you've been in both industries, you can't tell which has more burnout rates. Also, polls about this here don't help since the population is skewed towards tech.
That said, I've been in IB and work now in tech. I think IB you suffer more upfront given the massive type A kind of stereotyped people you have to deal with. Now in tech I feel like ppl are more passive aggressive and bad managers surprise people in bad reviews and don't give enough guidance on how to do better
- New on_FIREThe high compensation in FAANG is an inefficiency that will correct itself. Ibankers will always make money.
- No? Unless you mean trauma surgeons, doctors work equivalent or less hours than FAANG. I come from a family of all doctors ranging from Primary Care (regular internal medicine docs) to Oncologists, Cardiologists, etc. They all work very reasonable hours and specialists pull in $500k easily.
Don’t know where you got this info from.
- Well, I’m a corporate lawyer and I work usually 50-60 hours a week. Sometimes, I need to put an all-nighter, work on weekends, during vacation or leave the office at 3 am. A lot of stress caused by billing targets, clients, partners, lawyers and ppl on the other side of the deal. Legal practice is quiet stressful. But I think Ibankers are the leaders. Can’t imagine how they survive. Do not have friends in FAANG, so not in a position to opine.
- Twitter NWoj07Lol what a complete joke.
It’s doctors > bankers/lawyers >>>>>>> tech.
- Doctors? Only residents work for long hours. Many doctors work for 3 days a week. Most doctors are not ER surgeons. Rather they are primary care, allergist, rheumatologist, radiologist etc who doesn’t need to use the brain constantly nor studying new things. That is easily the easiest and stress free job. You don’t even need to think about performing better. Just don’t be a jerk. That is why half of college students think of becoming a doctor first.
- This is correct. Every human body is the same and therefore certain specialists don’t even need to use an ounce of brainpower when seeing patients. That is why college kids want to become doctors, because you can really mail it in once you get past a competitive college environment, a brutal MCAT, competitive medical school, stressful matching season, a difficult Step 1 & Step 2, and residency with long hours and little pay. After all of that and sitting on $200K of debt it’s a fukkken cake walk brah
- Don’t most of engineers go through brutal study time every 3 years for switching while still on the job, stressful oncall duty, continuous learning, intensive brain use, dealing with deadlines frequently, daily scrum reporting, fear of layoff or low review, brutal competition against type A and non social environment? I am not talking about lowly paid Microsoft engineers who can’t compete for compensation against even primary doctors. Facebook engineers have high rate of PIP and work for long hours with fierce competition for promotion though they are paid handsomely. Despite the debt, most of doctors or even dentists eventually own 2-3 houses and sell their office for profit as well. 200k debt is not much when you make 300k. Doctors average salary is putting together the 75 years old doctors who practice once a week, moms with 3 children who work 4 hours a day for 3 days only etc. They make more if they want. Most doctors can also easily find spouses as male to female ratio is even as well.
- 1. If you screw up in Eng, you may get PIP and at worst fired. If you screw up as a doctor, it can result in serious litigation with possibility of unlimited liabilities. If you screw up at M, you can still get hired elsewhere. Who wants to take on a doctor that has screwed up and has malpractice/other suits?
2. Doctor deadline is usually ASAP. Doctor can’t say “I’m a little slammed, give me 24h to get back to you with a solution”
3. Fear of malpractice/litigation > fear of lay-off
4. You can run your own practice, but be prepared for extremely tough competition if you’re in a popular market (SF, LA, NY, etc). Better off being one of a few docs in BFE
5. 300K after tax + basic expenses is far lower than $200K. It takes a long time to pay down that debt.
6. Docs don’t have potential to cash out in a liquidity event (IPO, exit) like we do
- 1. Rate of malpractice vs PIP is not even close. PIP at Facebook is very high. Malpractice is also covered by insurance unless it is criminal. Also not many doctors deal with patient life in day to day job.
2. Not sure what is an example scenario for this. Doctors don’t have boss usually. Patients will choose a different doctor if they don’t like him. Doctors just do what they can and if it doesn’t work, it is excused as doing the best but cannot do much.
3. Fear of litigation is low usually. Again covered by insurance. Percentage of malpractice leading to litigation is very small. Lay off affects high percentage of people.
5. I am not sure about that. Most people I know paid off after only a few years. You have $200k after tax. Do you need $100k for living expense? Still you have $100k. That is two years.
6. You are mentioning about very small percentage of lucky people. Most of engineers don’t have a shot at this. Much more percentage of doctors are million dollar surgeons. Dermatologist, Opthamalogist, and Plastic surgeons can run successful business that garner more than a million per year easily. Medical professors at my college made 3x of engineering professors at my state college (flagship). Engineers at FANG are very small numbers and cream of crop. Vast majority make 50-90k. A lot of them are in government, college and etc. Even Chicago and Dallas barely pay 6 digit. Doctors get paid well no problem.
- Oh man, do you know any doctors? Sounds like you don’t.
1. I chose malpractice as an extreme example. There are plenty of actions that can be taken that are serious - the med board can suspend/revoke your license, you can have complaints filed, or fined. How many PiPs did FB pass out? Guarantee you it’s less than the # of administrative actions taken against docs in the US. Every doctor deals with patient life on a day to day basis. That’s the whole damn job, man.
2. This example is almost every doctor. You mentioned deadlines like it’s unique to Eng. Have you been to a doctor? They have like 30 mins to get to a conclusion- whether it’s a prescription or a referral to a specialist. On top of that, they’re meeting patients with different symptoms and different medical histories. Doctors have bosses if they’re part of a system (like Kaiser).
3. Lol dude you can’t be a real person
5. If you work hard and get a little lucky, you land a sweet 300k job in a moderately priced market that allows you to pay off your loans in 5 years. If you’re working in a big city like nyc or sf, same gig has less pay.
6. Can’t cherry pick one side. You picked 3 specialists that are some of the highest earners. Family docs make way less. So do pediatricians. Running joke in med is dermatologist is the easiest gig and therefore has the most competition.
Med professors should make more than eng professors. I don’t know why you brought that up, but it seems like you fundamentally don’t understand the role doctors play and how complex and stressful their jobs are.
- Medallia jdidudjAnyone voting for FAANG is just delusional. Of course there is stress in tech but hours and pressure is nowhere near true Investment Banking. It's not a judgement of value (as there is a lot of unnecessary/wasted work in IB) it's just a fact.
- Why does everyone assume that the guy posting in the finance section refers to engineers when talking about FAANG?
- Could have been better to ask about FANG instead of FAANG, that extra A is known for being a big burner 😃
- I banking. Grind to VP and MD is steep if you survive analyst/associate. I left as senior associate as I got married and had a kid and moved to corporate banking. Work life balance is far better now.