Accusing contractors of having ‘fake’ blind profilesNov 17, 2018
A very obvious higher up came on this platform to attempt to draw a line between contractors and FTE’s at Sephora. They accused contractors on this platform of posing as FTE employees or being ‘fake’ profiles. It seemed like they were trying to say contractor opinions should not be valued on this platform because there is a separate ‘hiring bar’ for people who are hired FT. This person has now deleted the post, I assume, as another attempt to get rid of evidence and valid points that were raised by not only Sephora employees, but anyone who read the post.
I want to reiterate in this new post that it’s absurd to suggest there is any difference between the two classifications (aside from the clear exclusion contractors experience - ie not being allowed to attend any events or getting any perks that FTE’s receive). I have watched people get hired into FTE roles who cannot do their jobs and create problems for everybody. The only reason a person gets hired directly into a FTE position off the street at Sephora is if they know the person who is doing the hiring. To suggest there is a different ‘bar’ for people who are hired directly is frankly ridiculous, incorrect, and insensitive to all of the people who have been contracting at Sephora for years illegally through a loophole. These are the people who undoubtedly work harder than FTE’s because they come into work every day knowing they could be cut at any moment.
This post feels aggressive and jumbled to me now that I’ve written it out a second time. It doesn’t make as much sense without the context of the executive’s ridiculous comments. But I felt this was important information that needs to be released on this platform in a place where this higher up cannot delete it.
- Amazon beffbesosI was a contractor in India with TC : 8.3k 3 years back . Now lucky to be in the best place for Tech making 200k+ . What I would like to say is not everyone would have the opportunity to start at the best place . But hard work and urge in the end takes you to a better place
- Microsoft FredeIt's a French company selling perfume and cosmetics. It's part of lvmh, in the same branch than Guerlain, Christian Dior and Givenchy.
I knew the company in france, the management was very different than what youre describing, which is forbidden by law there.
I'm sorry for you.
- Feel free to enlighten yourself. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-sephora-became-a-mecca-for-female-tech-professionals-2017-10-09-10881354Nov 20, 20185
- Higher ups can't delete posts on Blind, you moron.
Also, there is no "hiring bar" for contractors IIRC -- a manager just asks a fucking contractor company for a resource, and then a resource is blindly dumped in their lap...
- That’s not how it works at Sephora. They have a whole system and they are working it to their benefit. Most of the company is contract or “salaried consultants” nobody gets converted unless you are friends with someone who’s making those decisions.
And I’m not saying the exec deleted someone else’s post.. someone posted something wild, got a bunch of backlash from other companies for attempting to call these profiles fake or suggesting contractors should not be allowed on there. And then they came back and deleted the whole thread. (I could call you a mean name too, but I don’t feel that makes my point more valid, sorry you feel you had to name call)Nov 17, 20183
- >And I’m not saying the exec deleted someone else’s post
Well, obviously I made a rash call there with the name calling. Point taken, and I apologize. Thanks for pointing that out; I need to learn to watch that.
The old buddy system is definitely bullshit.
My personal experience at Capital One has inspired me to purchase a book on office politics, in addition to quitting (my last day was Friday).
I'd recommend Leetcode and giving Sephora the finger by walking out the door for a FAANG company like I did with Capital One. It feels incredibly vindicating. I wish you the best of luck.Nov 17, 20183
- Intel DigdugduzIt’s not wrong as long as people aren’t harmed. Contractors are asked to work hours demanded not given a set number. Some weeks are great, some are too much, some are too little. They’re given no benefits of FT but expected to be ready for anything. If you have a contractor that’s been there for years, that a team depends on, why not make them full time? Seen it many times, lived it a few times...
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- Cisco Lluq65I love it when people from a company that gave (still giving) its host country away to a foreign power think they have a right to talk smack about ANY other company. Why don’t you come back with something to say after you tender your resignation, then maybe your words will count for something. I’d rather work for a tier 99 company than work for FB.
- Microsoft PixelatesWhat’s the message of this post in 1 sentence? What are you trying to prove and why?
- Office politics and the old buddy system seem to be a fact of life no matter where you go, including FAANG.
It's bullshit. I think your situation isn't actually specific to Sephora, and you'll see it no matter where you go (although I know that you aren't looking to get out).
It sucks to play the same political games that you may have seen people suffer from, but learning how to play them will allow you to identify them and be more of a solution to this problem.
- Many companies that are not at the top of their industry or fear the future deploy a large percentage of contracted workforce cause it allows them to cut without having to pay any sort of unemployment. They also don't have to pay benefits for contractors, usually the agency gives shitty benefits that pale in comparison. Also contractors accrue no vacation in nearly all companies (ExxonMobil gave contractors vacation days and raises for on-going / multiyear contracts, but it was nothing compared to FTE, for example).
This is a shitty loophole that allows companies to reduce their taxes / liabilities that government regulation has allowed.
- I am a contractor and here's my take:
1. I had a master's degree and relevant work experience before I joined my current client
2. My contracting company had a complete interview process before I was made an offer. I have interviewed with a few other companies as well do I can say for sure that my interview process was legit. Also, my client interviewed me before I started working for him.
3. I have referred 10+ people to my company and only 1 has been made an offer so far (some were rejected at resume screen phase, others during the process).
4. I work for a client alongside their internal team and there is no discrimination between work allocation between fte and contractor (work is allotted based on time availability of people. Whether or not they are fte/contractors is not even a consideration). We all bring similar skillsets to the table. Some contractors are better at their job than fte and vice versa.
5. The reasons my client hired contractors are multiple -
a) Its not a tech company so their visa sponsorship budgets are limited and they usually can't find enough Americans/gc holders to do all the tech/analytics work.
b) they require people to do specialized work for a few months (example - modify the data warehouse), which means they will have to let the person go once that job is done. There is hiring cost involved and attrition numbers go high. The client has the ease to request contracting companies for headcounts at their convenience without getting into the hiring process.
c) the client has the option to request another contractor if they end up not liking the one that was provided (which is rare but the option does exist) which is not possible if they hire fte only.
Hence, I do not see a reason why contractors should be discriminated against.
Just my 2c
- Blackstone cLIy45Contractors are treated very poorly everywhere eventhough some of them can be better at their jobs than some FTEs; they always have more to prove.
The whole thing is just a trick to keep headcount low, has nothing to do with actual merit.
My advice, tolerate being a contractor for up to a year, if could not get converted to FTE, leave for another place. It's not worth it if you can't become an FTE, everyday is an insult, it's literally second class, and not allowing people to join events is proof of that.
- No not most cases nor is it easy. A quick counter example is flexible/quick/temp headcount. It takes forever to go through FTE interview process and the company sinks a lot of money into it. Contractors are quick and “disposable.” If google absorbed all the contractors, you would then hear even more complaints on “bar lowering” and how companies are so harsh for seemingly unexpectedly firing a bunch of employees all the time with no heads up.
- Undisclosed Rnx677I employ both FTEs and contractors. Their skills are indistinguishable, but there are very significant business and legal distinctions, which many do not realize.
1- US co-employment law essentially forces employers to treat contractors differently. Not because employers don’t want to invite contractors to events or treat them like every other employee. It’s because of the risk of a co-employment lawsuit. Many famous examples of this happening.
2- Contractors almost always earn a higher salary than their FTE peers. I have had many situations where a contractor we were converting to an FTE was disappointed to lean that they were going to experience a reduction in cash flow. It is of course offset by lower payroll taxes, benefits, job security, and career growth potential.
3- Employers are not permitted to interview contractors. It happens of course, but technically speaking interviewing a contractor runs afoul of co-employment law. You state your need and contracting company provides a resource. If the need is unmet you tell the contracting company and they provide a different resource. No performance reviews or coaching like an FTE. It’s transactional.
4- Because of co-employment laws and the transactional relationship between employers and contractors, employer can release a contractor for any reason or no reason with no notice. The employer gets flexibility and contractor gets paid a premium as a result.
In my view it’s a transparent relationship, contractors are able to seek out other gigs, find better employment, earn higher wages, etc. If it’s not for you, then go compete with the FTEs for those jobs. But there’s no sense entering into a contract that is fundamentally different than full time employment and then complaining that it’s different. Just my 0.02.
- Why the fuck do you think contractors should be treated same as fte? They are a fucking disposable resource. We do interview them but I can dump them tomorrow if I dont need them or like them.
Good contractors never go via agency but corp2corp, get paid more than fte as a comp for the flexibility and have an extensive network that will sometimes even bid on them.
Everyone else is just a slave and if they don't like it they should not get themselves into the position at all.
Reminds me of those fuckers at Msft who were complaining they don't get stock and tried to sue..
Learn your place and if you don't like it gtfo
- I thought Blind is used by techies only. Now make-up artists started posting too 🤪
- Um contractors are NOT the same as FTE because...oh right, they aren’t employed wherever they are contracting. They are paid via a third party, hence you are just being treated as if you are a consultant or contractor. It’s not about competence, it’s literally that you are not employed by the company you are a contractor at. You aren’t invited to company events, etc because of co-employment risk. Contractors cry wolf all the time, it boggles my mind you think you should be treated like an FTE.
- When the fuck did blind start letting every fucking company on? How the fuck is Sephora tech or banking. Who’s next? McDonald employees?
- Blahblah8, no. I’m suggesting blind stays with their original business model which is the same business model that everyone liked and signed up for. I personally signed up because it was an anonymous forum for tech employees - which we both are. If I wanted to see posts from Sephora I’d work there.
It’s like you joining a car forum and then all of the sudden it becomes a motorcycle forum.
- @floss2day. I don’t even know how to answer your idiotic comment. Everyone employs technology in some form or another. This isn’t the “internet,” it’s an anonymous forum for tech employees. As in tech employees working in tech companies. Not the IT guy, at the printer shop down your block.
- The fucking world dude. When the Wall Street journal or Bloomberg talk about tech driving the market down, they definitely don’t mean the IT guys at Sephora. They mean a tech company.
I’m not saying any of you are better or worse than any employee at any top tech firm, but the companies are certainly different. It’s not just my opinion, but the opinion of the general population (including financial institutions and the media).
- I agree on the meaning of tech company when discussing the tech industry. I don’t agree that Blind is just for tech company employees. For that matter, I don’t even think it’s just for tech department employees. It’s for professionals in general. For what it’s worth, I am an engineer at a large tech company and I don’t care about Sephora’s business. But I might care about their technical issues and I might care about the issues they face as professionals. Widen your perspective, dude.
- It’s not about widening my perspective, dude. It’s about blind changing into something else. At some point it was an anonymous community for tech employees - that’s just a fact. Now it’s an anonymous community for any type of company, tech o not. That was my whole issue. My problem, if any, would be with blind changing their model. Don’t have any beef with any tech or non tech employee from any type of company.
The original argument from Floss2day was that Sephora was a tech company because it hired tech employees, that’s ludicrous. Had he made the same argument you made, then this conversation would have been over. Blind changing it’s business model and me having to deal with it, is a far superior argument than “we’re all tech and you don’t own the internet.”Nov 24, 20180
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- It’s simple then. Don’t give @company.com email addresses to contractors.
- It’s not like it’s that hard to get a job at Sephora. There’s a reason why someone doesn’t want to join a company full time.
I told my recruiters that I prefer contract positions to permanent before joining bc I don’t want to leave w a stigma of quitting too soon (if it doesn’t work out). If i actually like the company and the team after working there then I’d be happy to join full time.
- I’m a SWE too FYI. I can tell you personally that I will never work for Sephora unless it’s a contract position.
I would work at Sephora because I spend thousands of hours at the store and have ideas on how to improve the customer experience in store. But if I don’t know the culture of your company, and I wouldn’t want to risk joining full time.
- Uber SystemShokUber has this problem too. Basically, Blind is shooting itself in the foot by not having proper moderation of 1) ensuring employees are still employed 2) Not allowing or identifying contractors
- Are you silly? I was a contractor at Uber for several years and as of last year, I’m now FTE at L3. Its not a “problem” to allow contractors to join the app. There’s no requirement that you have to be FTE.
Why shouldn’t contractors be identified or allowed? You sound foolish and elitist.
- Undisclosed Just_danceThis has nothing to do with skill sets or abilities. The nature of contractor positions is different. It’s usually less costly (less liability) to hire contractors. However it does not mean contractors should be treated badly by the company, there are just fewer laws protecting them. If you hate contractor job you are currently in, you should go find an FTE position elsewhere.
- The only difference between FTE and contractor is that a FTE would strangle a puppy if asked and the contractor would quit.
- Sure bro. Instead of asking us to quit, why not just not hire us to begin with? Oh, that's right...you're too busy rounding up puppies to strangle to get real work done. Jesus, every day some new horror is revealed about a FAANG company and yet you still hold on to the belief your kids are gonna respect you once they don't need you anymore.
- Microsoft cout<<Lots of reasons for people to be vendors instead of FTE. No judgment.
That said there are some common contractual difference. Some places allow for venders to join events if their company pays for your portion. FTE budgets (morale/event etc) are highly managed. In some cases there are insurability reasons.
I suggest you separate out the inappropriate distinctions and focus on those.
- Tableau QlikbaitIt wasn’t obvious to me from that post that they were “obviously higher up.” I just though they were stuck up, elitist, etc.
- Facebook emmg87Wait, Sephora has Engineering Department? I was under impression they have outsourced all tech departments to India
Flagged by the community.
Flagged by the community.
- Tesla *¯\_(ツ)_/¯I’m with you OP. Although there ARE differences between full-time and contract employment, the person who started that other thread you mentioned was just an elitist FTE who wanted to let everyone know they were “better” than contractors bc they had passed a “higher bar”. Really just putting down contractors to make themselves feel better.