Paypal had layoffs recently and I heard that most people were in their 40s. Is this a common tread at other companies? Doesn't this constitute as discrimination? I understand that older employees usually get paid more but still somehow I don't think this is right especially if they have invested most of their career at the place. Are there any ways to combat ageism during layoffs? Thoughts? I mean we are all going to get old some day whether we like it or not...
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- Facebook ProbeWhy do you think I use skin care products and adhere to a strict diet? Solely to make sure I look like I'm in my 30s into my 50s to combat ageism.
- LinkedIn Capt MarvWhy do people whine about getting socialist protections for jobs that pay few times the median income ?
- Snapchat / Eng camera-coBecause the time to negotiate for unions/professional associations is now, when we're in a powerful position. Look at how lawyer pay has stagnated/declined over the last few decades whereas doctor pay remains high.
Restricting the qualifications necessary to become a software engineer is good for every existing software engineer.
- New 🍔 🍟moreOlder employees are NOT usually paid more. Younger ones who job hop make more than old timers who are stuck in the same job.
- Amazon Koh SamuiBetter achieve financial independence before you’re 40. Brain gets slower with age. That said I still think age-based firing is a terrible practice.
- @Rr333 you are proving my point — older candidates have problems getting hired because of stupid interview process and outright agism, not because their brains are slower. Also, CS fundamentals haven't changed that much. Binary trees are same binary trees as 50 years ago. It's just that most programming jobs don't require any hard CS, so you forget stuff you learned in college.Mar 14 5
- Amazon SeCg34I was hired by Amazon at 50, still there and approaching late 50’s. I can assure you that my brain is actually faster now since it’s been challenged daily at work. However, I agree that the best approach is to save as much as you can and assume that you’ll run into issues by 55 if not earlier. Very few of the FANGs have many people my age. Amazon seems to be significantly better about it than most.
- Sounds like BS to me. I am in my late 50s and my boss (and his boss) are older. That said, I would try a lawsuit if it happened to me
- Juniper baileeAgeism is rampant in the Bay Area. Yes it's discrimination yes everyone knows about yes it still happens anyway and companies DGAF
- Lack of experience is destroying many companies! But how come many CEOs are over 50 and this crap is happening under their nose.
I think it’s more that people are complacent here and no one wants to rock the boat. Look at SF as a city, pretty soon people would have to wear masks not because of smoke because of disgusting smell of piss. Totally Gross!Mar 17 0
- Walmart.com vLAp07This hit me when I entered my 40s. Stay fit, try looking "younger", network and most important have a skill that the industry wants. This can help extend your career; or at least that is my hope. Companies favor youth (which is good for our kids -- see it does help somewhere), but the openness with which it is done shocks me. I do not expect anything to change so keep your skills up-to date and network.Apr 17 0
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- I’m a millennial and find it disgusting. We will be there in a blink of an eye. I will not work for companies that have a sea of fresh faces; only diverse mixes.
I hope my fellow millennials have some sense of decency and feel the same (and just self-regard; like I say: we will be there shortly)Mar 14 13
- Lyft zz7yqa45Ageism is real. Allow me to explain the hierarchy of hatred for The Olds in tech (anyone over 40).
1. Olds who can pass for young and can pretend they are drinking the koolaid, also ignore unforced errors by people half their age (won't protect in mass layoffs).
2. Olds who have interests and obligations outside of work. This category is especially hated in growth companies.
3. Olds who have the misfortune to have a sick kid or parent. This is the absolute lowest of the low, the most hated category of The Olds. If you are in this category, watch your back, learn about FMLA, and be ready to get fired at any time for any reason or no reason at all.
Ahhhhhh! The magic of at will employment.
Actually I misspoke. Olds with cancer are the worst. Just drop dead already and stop driving insurance rates up.
- As one of the older folks on Blind (64.. lol) I have one suggestion: don't talk a lot about what happened in the old days. Stay current. Anything that you did more than 10, 15 yrs ago is probably not super relevant anymore. It won't protect you from all ageist layoffs but it'll help. Anyway it's more interesting too 😁😁
- Really interesting question. Around 15 years ago I was an Oracle DBA on Unix and thought I would never want to go into mgmt. But time passed, I joined a different company, technology changed & I became a manager. All around I really like it. I have a great team and, though I don't go deep into any technical topics now, I do get to range pretty widely in helping team members deal with blockers etc. However, my ability to find a different job is probably less than it would be if I stayed pure technical. I'd say if you have any interest in mgmt and find an oppty, don't be afraid to go for it. You can probably do it for 3+ years before your ability to go back to individual contributor gets tough.Mar 14 4
- Amazon qQTo52The impacted folks tend to have to sign away rights to sue to get severance which shuts down lawsuits. People also don’t want to sue because it will be public and fear future hiring discrimination based on causing trouble. In the end we’re all akin to pro ball players: make as much as you can while you can and have a plan B should this hit us.
- Microsoft / Eng YKtY52You can sign away your right to sue. Chances are you've done it many times without even realizing. Go read your cell phone contract. It probably says that by signing it you're agreeing to have disputes solved through arbitration.
Many employers do it too (I'm not sure about Amazon; Microsoft does not).
It's pretty standard for severance packages to require that you give up your right to sue. There are special rules for people over 40, but at the end of the day if you willingly accept the severance package (meaning the employer didn't bully you or scare you into signing it) then it becomes very, very hard to win a lawsuit.
BTW, I'm not an attorney but as a disabled person I have more familiarity than I'd like with anti-discrimination laws. Thankfully, I've never had to sue, but I have had to stand up for my rights many times.
Sadly, most of those times happened at Microsoft. The company provides a lot of anti-discrimination training, but most of it is focused on hot button social issues (minorities, LGBTQ employees, etc). Unfortunately I've hardly seen any training on ageism or people with disabilities.Mar 14 5
- It is illegal under federal law for an employer to ask you to waive the right to sue for discrimination against a federally protected group. You also can't be held to a NDA if you are reporting a crime.
Even if you sign such a doc, you can file a complaint with the eeoc and after 90 days they will issue you a right to sue letter and you can file in federal court. The court will throw out part or all of any agreement that includes a convenient not to sue for discrimination. The only way to wave this right is to reach a settlement that is approved by a judge.
You can sign away a lot of other rights and agree not to sue for other things but a doc that says you agree not to sue because of discrimination is not a valid contract. The company may use a document that says that you agree that there has been no discrimination and then try to use that against you if you file a lawsuit but this has been largely recognized as intimidation and not valued much as I understand.
Just as a note companies love to get employees to sign things that are not legally binding. Most of the time the employee doesn't know and is too proud or afraid to get legal advice.
If you are ever in a office with hr and they are trying to get you to sign something before you leave rather than taking it home signing and returning in a week then there is a good chance it has a few clauses they don't want you to run past a lawyer.
- Amazon VpYJ78Americans have decided that unions are inevitably bad rather than conditionally good or bad, civic society has no consensus, and in the absence of a counterweight to unchecked regulatory capture, the ability to be legally protected as a group doesn't really exist unless it also has a strong cultural identity and politics associated with it.
Ie, you can discriminate against all the older employees or all the short employees or all the ugly employees because those groups aren't politically organized and don't seem to constitute a unifiable identity.
In the case of tech, statistically speaking, the majority of us are opposed to unions and suspicious of government regulation of company staffing policy, which works really well for us until it's our turn to be on the chopping block.
Nothing's going to change until we as developers think about our short and long term interests and act as a group. If we don't make sure that good devs who can do the work get a fair shot at every stage of our careers, then we'll have the worst of both worlds: in some places deadwood with obsolete skills will be protected, and in others great devs will be fired for having grey hair.
- New mdGG61I'm 39 now and I'm pretty sure if my company decided to lay off 90% of the dev team, I'd not get the axe. Just be better than your peers. Nobody fires their MVPs
- Intel / Eng direct&opnmoreI feel as software engineering is entering the new era, we need to constantly keep learning. If I spend a long time at a place that doesn’t secure my place, because the incoming new grad is well versed in technologies that are entering the market now.
I believe if I cope up with tech trends and spend 2 hours a day learning, it wouldn’t matter a decade later that I am old, I will be able to justify my high salary.
I feel companies execute such layoffs because they feel that older employees with high salaries are not contributing enough to justify the high pays!