Aggressive Men vs Women

Sep 29 40 Comments

I've worked with many aggressive men in IT over the years. They tend to rise to influence and get away with arguing and taking a hard stand. I learned from them to certain degree when it comes to disagreements. However, if I slightly show aggression, uncomfortable tone, or take a stance then I'm seen as a witch to others. So... Would I be seen as aggressive if I had a third leg? Seriously, I've seen only super calm and collective women make it to the top while unstable aggressive men rise even faster than said women. Is there a double standard for conduct?

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TOP 40 Comments
  • Google flight815
    Third leg πŸ˜†
    Sep 29 2
    • SAP
      podheb7$e

      SAP

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      out
      podheb7$emore
      More like 11th toe for most guys.
      Sep 29
    • Google flight815
      Or 1253rd pub*c hair.
      Sep 29
  • New NNGd48
    Yes. A thousand times yes.
    I can only share my experience- i used to think matching aggression with aggression was the way to win. But that’s not who I was. It was inauthentic. While my male counterparts were rewarded for mediocrity, it took time to recognize the strength in my femininity. I soon got that what mattered was the velocity with which my words turned to actions and my actions turned into results. Male, female, or other - power (in the absence of force) is undeniable.
    Sep 29 0
  • Pandora / Eng joystick
    Yes, in our society that is full of bias, aggressive women are perceived as insecure and thus not to be trusted. Aggressive men are perceived as confident leaders asserting their power. Not saying that it’s right, it’s just the way things are.
    Sep 29 1
  • Airbnb wise taco
    Yes, but there's also a ceiling to aggressive people. At some point people only rise more if others like them, and being aggressive likely will hurt their chances.
    Sep 29 1
    • New NNGd48
      Yes absolutely
      Sep 29
  • Oracle alwzangry
    Would you rather focus on being aggressive than figure out what else works for those who get ahead? If they get ahead in middle-management, that's not far.

    People who rise to the top, in decent cultures, tend to be balanced in aggression and they take others towards the top along with them.

    Those who step on others to climb up, keep running and switching jobs to escape the consequences. Such people ruin careers, make damaging business decisions that they oversell.

    Then there are people who stay put and feel they aren't aggressive enough, and keep pushing wherever they can - making things personal. They never realize they didn't read the rules of the game, so they unwittingly waste energy and aggression, harming people along the way, and not winning friends in any of the 360 directions.

    Do you belong to any of these categories?
    Sep 30 4
    • OP
      πŸ€” Is this meant for both men and women? I only aspire to take people to the top with me.
      Sep 30
    • Oracle alwzangry
      Yes, for all.
      Sep 30
    • Amazon FBvu27
      I think you do not understand the culture. Basically in lots of MS teams if you say No or say any other suggestions to your projects are treated as you being Aggressive. This is an issue sometimes, especially as your feedback is mainly based on managers feedback + you have to show how do you participate i diversity. This means a lot of people do not say no to a manager at all, so any No is treated as huge aggression
      Sep 30
    • Oracle alwzangry
      Doesn't that fit in what I wrote above? Not sure if Amazon's comment was for me or OP.
      Sep 30
  • Being aggressive is one way people engage each other. Depending on the dynamic, it can often show to be lacking substance if done arbitrarily.
    Too aggressive can also make enemies or be known as an ass.

    There is a confidence component that can be communicated in a variety of ways and assertiveness is just one of those ways. There are times to hold to your ideas, and insist on what is the right thing to do.

    If you generally hold back, then suddenly don't, this can get people's attention because people react to change. Say what they might, hold firm if your reason was solid, because backing down will be a way others will subtly control you.
    Sep 29 1
  • Amazon FBvu27
    So you can be aggressive but reasonable and constructive. I think the culture is changing and anyone with temper that they cannot control should lern new skills.
    Sep 29 5
    • OP
      I agree with what you're saying. My point is more so are men given more allowances to be aggressive with a temper than women?
      Sep 30
    • Amazon FBvu27
      In some teams you are the only woman, so you are much more visible, in others - sexism, sometimes also ladies can make it personal and not about the project
      Sep 30
    • OP
      Yes, exactly! Most times I prefer to work with just men because it doesn't get personal! Always some sort of drama with women. I need to better manage my responses to that, for sure.
      Sep 30
    • Amazon FBvu27
      Well, its only about a 100y of work culture for women, lots of things are not shared/ passed and not deeply rooted in a culture when you are grown up, so def things happen. Id not say its as bad now with millenials than with previous generations though
      Sep 30
    • OP
      I think millennials don't have this issue, at least as far as I can see.
      Sep 30
  • Panasonic Avionics / Sales
    Nintendo64

    Panasonic Avionics Sales

    BIO
    I do sales. I sell stuff. It’s what I do.
    Nintendo64more
    The female leaders I’ve seen are backstabbers.. nice to your face but will work behind the scenes to cut you down. Aggressive male leaders are just that; twats that yell and berate. Pick your poison
    Sep 29 1
    • OP
      Ouch. I can't agree about female leaders. I think most of them make it to the top by being yes women and delivering without a problem for their manager.
      Sep 30
  • Booking.com
    Π‘Π°Π±Π° Π―Π³Π°

    Booking.com

    BIO
    🀬πŸ€ͺπŸ₯΄πŸ₯ΊπŸ€«πŸ˜œπŸ€¦β€β™‚️
    Π‘Π°Π±Π° Π―Π³Π°more
    I wonder, if we swap the genders in OP post, what would SJW say, and would they be triggered?
    Sep 29 1
  • Amazon anion
    I’m a man and learnt to be absolutely obedient. Doing otherwise seriously hurt my career in the past.

    When I’ve been very nice, I achieved things.

    All of the above on the Amazon job! If this can heppen at a wild and innovative place like Amazon, just imagine how that would be in traditional places.

    You can take hard stance when you’re the CEO.
    Sep 29 1
  • Amazon FBvu27
    Ah you are in Microsoft. Yeah, even insisting on high stands of coding and asking someone doing something crazily stupid to change things, can be considered aggressive in some MS teams. Seen that before, but not sure about your situation.
    Sep 29 2
    • OP
      Yeah, it's annoying. Everyone has to be besties and agree with each other otherwise there's a problem. Gah. Seriously though, sometimes I believe it's just acceptable for a man to show tone and be aggressive but it's always a problem for a woman. Always.
      Sep 30
    • Amazon FBvu27
      Thats why I switched to Amazon. Now I "enthusiastic" and "diving deep"
      Sep 30
  • Because unfortunately, when women raise their voices, right or wrong, they are seen as hysterical, or some other nonsense. And remember, men are good at tuning their wives, etc out when they raise their voices, etc. So the bosses etc are probably tuning you and other women out if they get aggressive, angry, etc.
    https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/have-men-always-had-a-problem-with-anger-in-women-wcz/
    Nov 2 2
    • The question asks about aggressiveness and actually refers to assertiveness.
      The link you provided was about anger in women. Your answer talks about women raising their voices.

      These are not all the same things. Assertiveness is usually least effective with raising your voice. Anger is also not effective.

      In the description of the question, it mentions an example of what could be valued, "taking a hard stand". This does not require anger, which would be counterproductive. If you are certain about a topic and disagree a hard stand should be taken. It is usually strongest when backed up with facts, baded experience, or well communicated reasoning.
      Nov 2
    • I think men react the same way to both. Speaking to someone who has been married for 37 years and working for most of my life.. not trying to be a know it all, but, I do believe they do. Just observation, asking questions, etc. I have asked a lot of questions over the years lol
      6d
  • Pivotal iamironma
    While your concerns are valid, I think this is more meta than most realize.

    The world we live in was built by men. If you believe in the patriarchy then this isn't a debatable statement.

    How did they build it? With physical strength. With wit, and sometimes deceit. They built our roads, cities, government infrastructures, and more. With tenacity, abrasiveness, and a will to win, sometimes at costs that in hindsight seemed to be too high. They came in strides to fight our wars and died by the millions.

    Why did they do this? To advance the human species. To create a better society that has high literacy rates, better healthcare, solid education (universities in the U.S. are top-rank) endless food and drink supplies, solid infrastructure, capital, political power, and most importantly, protection from the dangers of the world. Survival, our most primitive instinct.

    Is the world that the men of the past created perfect? No. Is it sexist, racist, and unfair for many? Absolutely.

    The traits needed to build the world in the past have carried over into our white-collar environments, with stories of men acting aggressively in the corporate world (finance for example) for the past century. Furthermore, the trend of men compartmentalizing their emotions and thinking in more cutthroat terms is evolutionary and synonymous with masculinity. It's a natural conclusion that what worked to build our society in the past would allow men to "rise to influence and get away with.." as you said.

    As the future becomes, "more female", especially in the white-collar environment, there will be natural changes to what behaviors or approaches are okay to rank up.

    The fruits of the manual labor of men in the past have ripened, more opportunities were provided to others. Women hold more seats in universities than men do. People of color, while they don't hold the number majority in this country, are on track to holding the majority by 2040.

    Women of the future will not have to deal with these issues that you're experiencing today, because our society will evolve past it.
    Oct 7 4
    • "the world that the men ... created ... is sexist, racist, and unfair? Absolutely."

      ^ 🀨 That is sexist
      Oct 7
    • Pivotal iamironma
      no, it's honest. if men were given the responsibility of creating this society they did so with policies inspired by eugenics and oppressed millions if not billions of people globally.
      Oct 8
    • Pivotal iamironma
      also i'm pretty annoyed that out of the entire post that acknowledges the accomplishments of men and sympathesizes with present-day women you've diluted it to petty politics.
      Oct 8
    • Which part was politics?

      I took the time to read the post and gave what I thought was practical advise further above.

      I read this response talk about societal history of men creating this world in a sexist, racist way, the future becoming more feminine, and evolving past this into the future.

      I understood OP's post as an asking if men are allowed to be more aggressive and if that seen in a positive way, while women being assertive gets taken negatively.

      I didn't write it being sexist as a political statement. I thought it was funny (hence the meme matching the emoji) to point out the above was by definition sexist, by stereotyping on the basis of sex.
      I was originally trying to be more concise in this response.
      Oct 8
  • Ness Technologies __|__
    U need a leg and two basketballs
    Sep 29 1

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