Amazon L7 vs L8
Amazon kept knocking, I kept ignoring but eventually, the recruited got to me. They are pitching L7 (Senior Manager) role. Looking at levels.fyi it does not seem like they can pay me what I am getting now. (Current TC ~ 650k, YOE = 20). The recruiter says: "We can match your current TC, but how it will be broken down will be also determined through interview and leveling etc. There is also an option of leveling up the role, but that would only be determined by the interview." So, how does Amazon decides if I can get L8 instead of L7 if the job is posted as L7? Would the interview and questions be different for L7 vs L8? And how would a candidate demonstrate they are "ready" for a L8 job. I have a hard time imagining how "tell me about a time when..." and the leadership principles can determine once readiness. The answers will be very similar, right? Perhaps I can be more drastic with my frugality answer - like I never eat company food! So is the recruiter just trying to pull wool over my eyes or is she for real?
Levels.fyi
Depends completely on the organization. Any idea which one?
AWS
AWS is a VP factory - if you're L8 then you could expect to jump the ranks especially if you meet the org and cross org requirements. I believe L8 directors are raking in 900+ but external L8 hires are to solve very specific things that the business can't already solve. I would expect it to be difficult but rewarding for a couple of years. In terms of ranking for the loop if they're constructing an L8 loop and give you the bs of "well see where you stand after the interview" then I would proceed with caution. They may decide based on specific experience or LPs that you aren't at an L8 level. However, in that situation they will give you L7 but with an L8 responsibility. It's a huge liability to hire an external L8 but when these recs usually open its because there is already L8 work there -- accept nothing less. On the flip side of you get L7 with L8 TC (“out of band”) then it might benefit you.
L7 is Sr Mgr, L8 is either director or GM. Sr Mgr at Amazon is generally a M2. Director at Amazon is a very high level and not something you see frequent external hire. So you got to be exceptionally good to get L8. Sr Mgr pay can cross $500k in Seattle if you are managing an engineering team or 2+ cross functional teams. Bay area pay is 10-15%% more. Getting $650k for L7 external hire is tough, but if recruiter knows (often they do) what he/she talking about them this must be a special role that you are already a perfect fit so willing to go $650k+.
Why leave for similarly matched TC? Is 650K current TC in the Bay Area?
Because of potential growth, I hit a ceiling here + the burn out. And I face a cliff in the next 12 months. Better find the same pay before it goes down
OP what happened? Did you proceed?
Curious as well.
It's AWS. They can definitely match that comp, and in fact can even beat it if you get L8. For L7 I don't think they can match 650, you might get 500, but again depends on interview performance. However, it might be the case that you might get downleveled to L7 maybe L6. L7 and L8 are really hard to get for external hires. And if you do impress and get L7/L8 you will have to perform at a much higher standard than anywhere else, including the other faangs. It's quite stressful.
Is 650 in Seattle for EM? What is the typical/max for L8s?
What level are you at VMW? In my opinion VP should map to L8 at AWS but I know they try to get people in at L7 Sr Mgr.
Why leave 650TC at VMware ? L8 is a level at which you will have to perform and hustle. I would guess stress levels would be much higher at AMZN than what you have currently
If you think the stress level at VMW is low, you have no idea. At this level I expect stress is part of the job at any company (used to work at MSFT). As one of my friends (in FB now) says "anyone above L6 is a sociopat". I kind of agree with him - politics, budgets, headcount wars are all part of life. But I got used to it. So back to the original question...
Fair enough, and definitely true. Also if you made it to L7 équivalent at VM then you know the game. If the recruiter claims they can beat your comp then why not go for the interview loop? Make it clear if you get down levelled and they can’t meet comp expectations you will reject any offer. If they are comfortable with that then it’s on you to show L8 level or L7 level with appropriate comp breakdown