Amazon offer eval for Seattle. Seems low.

Microsoft IScV51
Apr 3, 2018 33 Comments

I'm a Senior SDE at MS working on ML.
Interviews at Amazon were extremely easy.

Amazon offer:
Base:147k
Sign-on cash: 60k for 1st year, 45k for second year.
Sign-on RSUs: 90k with 5%, 15%, 40%, 40% vesting.

This sounds kind of small. Lower than I'll be getting in MS considering absence of annual bonuses, bad 401k, ESPP, etc.

I'm thinking of refusing this offer outright, without writing some lengthy explanation with numbers.

This offer is not good, right?

Should I refuse this offer and hope they make a better one? Or should I try to only negotiate it up a little bit?

Should I ask to interview for a higher position?

P.S. Alexa org.

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TOP 33 Comments
  • Apple jvSQ82
    Be polite and try to negotiation. Say thank you for the offer but it’s low. I can’t proceed forward. Don’t take it personally and negotiate with positive spirit.
    Apr 3, 2018 0
  • Amazon eagle101
    Seems like a sde2 offer from numbers
    Apr 3, 2018 0
  • Microsoft wlb
    It is normal to come back with a first lowball offer. Negotiate and ask for more. Let us know what the final numbers look like. Is that sde2 or sde3?
    Apr 3, 2018 3
    • Amazon SMYu17
      Guessing sde2, it's low for that too
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Amazon
      Benny Lava

      Amazon

      PRE
      Amazon
      Benny Lavamore
      Yup, low sde2
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Microsoft wlb
      Msft L63 going to amzn sde2 is definitely a demotion. DO NOT ACCEPT THIS OFFER!
      Apr 3, 2018
  • Amazon CHbV52
    Amazon has given you a standard external hire Sde2 offer. Seems like they are leveling you down. You should ask for more based on your current comp or competing offers, otherwise simply turn it down.
    Apr 3, 2018 2
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      The person who referred me mentioned that he had to select some specific job listing. The one he selected was probably for non-senior position. Does this sound plausible? I could come back to interview for a Senior position, but I'm not sure it's going to work.
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Amazon CHbV52
      You can check with your tech recruiter which position you have interviewed for.
      Apr 3, 2018
  • Oracle Jor
    Microsoft senior is usually SDE 2 at amazon. Principals are more like SDE 3.
    Apr 3, 2018 5
    • Microsoft / Eng Lotad
      We just got a Senior from Amazon join our team as a junior SDE 1
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Microsoft DankusMemu
      Dude..shut your pie hole Oracle guy. Most of my friends who joined Amazon made it to sde3 after 5-6years. How many make it to Principal at Microsoft in that time frame?

      Bottom line is Amazon is looking for cheap, frugal labor. Thinking that they have a higher “bar” just to make yourself feel better id a fools errand.
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Oracle Jor
      I don’t blame you. I know you guys value your title more than your children
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Microsoft DankusMemu
      Lol, whatever makes you feel better.
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Amazon gdSe61
      Jor is correct, but its in the past though. With the new revised promo guidelines, i dont see an MS senior being any different than an amazon SDE3, except for a bit on the leadership side.
      Apr 3, 2018
  • Microsoft _member
    Reject the offer. They can’t treat you like this. They’ve their heads too high these days. I hope trump shows them their true colors.
    Apr 3, 2018 2
    • Splunk SadDude
      Asshole spotted.
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Microsoft _member
      Thanks for identifying yourself 😋
      Apr 3, 2018
  • Splunk SadDude
    Be respectful and negotiate. Provide data points as to what you are looking for. You gain nothing by being arrogant or rejecting the offer outright.
    Apr 3, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Eng (-,-)
    Depends. I’m guessing they did not offer you a Sr. SDE position at Amazon, did they?
    Apr 3, 2018 3
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      I do not think so. Maybe the initial role was not Senior and they did not raise the bar during interview.
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng (-,-)
      Sr SDE at MSFT does NOT equal Sr. SDE at Amazon.
      It is the other way around, you fucked something up, probably Systems Design and they downleveled you because there agreed you are not senior material at Amazon.

      Check this out: https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Microsoft,Amazon&track=Software%20Engineer

      Sr sde msft = sde2 amazon
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Microsoft DankusMemu
      Based on years of experience, id day they are equivalent. It takes 6-7years on average to get to Sr. 7-8 to get to L64. Now, interview performance is a different thing and downleveling can happen because of that. But I suspect in Amazon’s case, they want to be frugal and get people in on the cheap

      And just FYI, l64 and l63 both have a senior sde Title at msft. The latter however gets to do more leadership stuff
      Apr 3, 2018
  • Microsoft ThisOrThat
    RSUs are low
    Sign on looks good
    Apr 3, 2018 1
    • Amazon / Eng
      ⛄️

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      ⛄️more
      I agree. Sounds like middle of L5 (SDE II). I had nearly identical salary and sign on, but 160k in RSU for something like 210 TC.
      Apr 3, 2018
  • Facebook Facebook ♨
    Just ask to interview for SDE3.
    Apr 3, 2018 0
  • Amazon Chill
    What level? That sounds low
    Apr 3, 2018 2
    • Microsoft ThisOrThat
      And location
      Apr 3, 2018
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      Seattle
      Apr 3, 2018
  • Amazon gdSe61
    How many years of exp do you have? Doesnt look like a great offer even for an SDE2. Try to aim for 230k+ TC.
    Apr 3, 2018 1
    • Amazon gte305f
      It's not horrible at $207 total comp target but I would try to negotiate a little.
      Apr 3, 2018
  • Microsoft nQiN10
    Ya half of them said to be arrogant , don’t know why . Try to negotiate and check why they provided you this numbers in first place ? They don’t know your experience ? I am sure you would have given your best in interviews but also ask them their feedback , if they need you badly they will increase it and nothing wrong in negotiations if you do it in a positive way rather than being arrogant and aggressive .
    Apr 3, 2018 0
  • Microsoft Ynoti
    Reject. I'm coming back.
    Apr 3, 2018 0