Amazon pivot removed?

Amazon RLRq11
Mar 21 21 Comments

Heard from a friend - From April there will be no pivot process. Dev plan followed by PIP. (I don't know any further details). Can someone confirm if that is true?

comments

Want to comment? LOG IN or SIGN UP
TOP 21 Comments
  • Gap / Eng randUser
    What's the difference? Is this worse or better?
    Mar 21 5
    • Amazon RLRq11
      OP
      Bad... because you cannot appeal now. In pivot there is an independent panel to decide if the manager was fair and if you should be out of the Dev plan.
      Mar 21
    • Gap / Eng randUser
      ahh I see, wonder why they moved away from that
      Mar 21
    • Amazon RLRq11
      OP
      Don't know yet ...so confirming with folks
      Mar 21
    • Amazon tjpb67
      There's still an appeal but now instead of appealing being put on a PIP you can appeal the claim that you failed the PIP once it's over.

      The old appeal was not a great experience as you basically had a he said / she said about the employee's last year of work and an appeal panel wasn't really going to review all that in detail. It came down to who had the better paper trail and not necessarily the truth.

      Now the appeal will focus only on the PIP performance which is a much clearer task and both the employee and the manager can collect artifacts and feedbacks during the PIP.
      Mar 21
    • Amazon Cynimist
      And it discourages impossible PIPs because they can be appealed.
      Mar 21
  • Facebook / Eng
    fb2017

    Facebook Eng

    PRE
    Google, Oracle
    BIO
    worked at Oracle, then Google, now Facebook.
    fb2017more
    Amazon is really manager heaven.
    Mar 21 3
    • Amazon tjpb67
      What is the process at Facebook for an employee to appeal a manager's decision to put them on a PIP?
      Mar 21
    • Facebook / Eng
      fb2017

      Facebook Eng

      PRE
      Google, Oracle
      BIO
      worked at Oracle, then Google, now Facebook.
      fb2017more
      Any time you can appeal or report to HR. But don't know how useful it is.
      Mar 21
    • Amazon tjpb67
      So this appeal process at Amazon involves other people in your job role (eg, sde) reviewing your case and deciding whether your performance is really as low as your manager says.

      Think of it as being just like a hiring committee except for firing.

      For all the flak Amazon gets I think this one is really a very employee friendly policy.
      Mar 21
  • Amazon leetN00b
    I was implementing this change, but was auto pivoted during testing phase.
    Mar 21 0
  • Amazon RBMY63
    This is incorrect, but the change is confusing.

    Used to be:
    Dev plan to Pivot, choose:
    Appeal (was pivot supported and documented)
    Leave Amazon, get 3x PIP severance
    Enter PIP

    Now:
    Dev plan -> Pivot, choose:
    Leave amazon, 3x pip severance
    PIP
    On pip failure, choose:
    Leave amazon, severance
    Appeal, proving pip failure was not properly documented

    You can still leave with enhanced severance, you don’t go right to PIP as used to be the case.
    Mar 21 5
    • Amazon RLRq11
      OP
      So after pip you can appeal?
      Mar 21
    • Amazon RBMY63
      Yes
      Mar 21
    • Amazon RLRq11
      OP
      Doesn't make sense. Just a good way for manager to push someone to hell and gather more evidence of failure.
      Mar 21
    • Amazon tjpb67
      It makes more sense. The appeal now focuses only on the PIP so both sides can collect artifacts and feedbacks and the panel can look at what was delivered.

      The old appeal was too open ended and went into any example from the last year and basically the panel had no hope in the time they had of really getting to the bottom of that. Just a huge he said, she said covering way too much ground.

      But now evaluating "how did this person do on this project where they were given these written goals" is much clearer, they can review the delivery, artifacts produced, feedbacks, etc, and just decide pass/fail on the PIP.
      Mar 21
    • Amazon RLRq11
      OP
      Also, with 6% forced attrition. What percentage of folks take severance? Does rehire clause change if one accepts severance?
      Mar 21
  • Amazon / Mktg
    HvAu83

    Amazon Mktg

    PRE
    VMware
    HvAu83more
    “Below the bar” statement implies that people don’t have what it takes to be at Amazon. Possibly true on some cases - but in many cases, the job or manager can be a bad fit. In many cases it’s manager-driven, not performance.
    Apr 13 0
  • New FCFF
    Does Amazon still have the rule where you can't apply for a job there until 1 year after you are fired? Not sure if this applies only to those who failed PIP or also those who lost the appeal.
    Mar 22 2
    • Facebook / Eng
      fb2017

      Facebook Eng

      PRE
      Google, Oracle
      BIO
      worked at Oracle, then Google, now Facebook.
      fb2017more
      I'd never go back to the company that fires me. Why would you?
      Mar 22
    • Amazon RBMY63
      If you leave while on dev list you are not eligible for rehire. Period. They could change the policy and say 3 or 5 or whatever years, but we aren’t having enough trouble hiring that we’d rehire people proven to be below the bar.
      Mar 22