Any news about layoffs at your company?

Microsoft fT4qXW
Jan 2 232 Comments

Just curious.

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TOP 232 Comments
  • Flagged by the community.

    • Amazon OlAl28
      Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
      Jan 3
    • Facebook gable
      Address?
      Jan 3
    • Flagged by the community.

    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      “Is it too early to organise her marriage?”

      oh god i’m dying 😂🤣
      Jan 3
    • Barclays PLC FAANGHNTER
      Where is the vote button?
      Jan 3
    • Amazon god
      Yay!! Free food
      Jan 3
    • I have dietary restrictions will you accommodate them?
      Jan 3
    • PayPal Main
      Starbucks barista serving drinks to this person when they grow up -“ one hazelnut hot chocolate for Panko Bread Crumbs”
      Jan 4
    • Can I bring a +1?
      Jan 4
    • Paperless Post AlphaAF
      The design is just ugly. Check out Flyer on our website, Prakalya deserves a better invite lol
      Jan 4
  • Lockheed Martin / Eng iEkO37
    No still hiring aggressively.
    Jan 2 14
    • EMC / Product sQBh08
      Syria Libya east Africa and Pakistan were peacekeeping missions. Don’t hate
      Jan 3
    • IBM UOsu55
      Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. US Fed gov is the new Roman Empire. You are a good citizen I guess
      Jan 3
    • EMC / Product sQBh08
      Don’t hate ConstinPelosi
      Jan 3
    • General Dynamics Purple16
      Same here
      Jan 3
    • Arrow / Ops jNqp34
      Just got a new job at Lockheed. Any helpful tips for the onboarding process?
      Jan 3
    • Lockheed Martin / Eng iEkO37
      Leetcode and apply somewhere better
      Jan 3
    • Arrow / Ops jNqp34
      Why?
      Jan 3
    • Lockheed Martin / Eng iEkO37
      I was kidding, I hope you like it. It's just not for me.
      Jan 3
    • McAfee Somu
      Why the engineers bothered about US foreign policy . Why don’t u focus on completing ur projects .
      Jan 4
    • Morality is tough like that.
      Jan 4
  • US Navy / IT Boonaki
    Nope
    Jan 2 15
    • New / Eng Mldy20
      So say u worked for 10 years that’s 10.10% of what exactly? how much will u be getting per year after what age?
      Jan 3
    • Microsoft metoo++
      Eventually it will amount to a dump on your desk by a subordinate.
      Jan 3
    • Progress / Eng
      NullRefEx

      Progress Eng

      PRE
      Nokia, Microsoft
      NullRefExmore
      The circle of poop.
      Jan 3
    • US Navy / IT Boonaki
      I make a 105k a year now, so 10.10% of that for life. My cap is around a 135k because I don't have a degree. A GS 15 maxes out at a 165k, Senior Executive Service maxes out at 210k but you'd need a Ph.D.

      If you go overseas to Germany, England, Italy for 5 years, the government will pay your rent up to $3,400 a month. A lot of people buy a house, sell it at the end of 5 years, and bring the cash back.

      Honestly not worth it for you guys that make 200k or more a year

      I don't know how to calculate the TC on that.
      Jan 3
    • Amazon / Eng PoofyBunny
      lolwhat our navy is what makes our military so powerful.
      Jan 3
    • Intuitive Surgical HfMg53
      This whole thread is fire
      Jan 3
    • Sephora playah
      I Iove that the Navy is on Blind taking TC.
      Jan 3
    • Sephora playah
      *talking
      Jan 3
    • New DuQvV7x
      The 800b DOD budget is bigger than the market cap of any tech firm, so quite apropos.
      Jan 4
    • > Honestly not worth it for you guys that make 200k or more a year

      You get a pension tho for retirement. I gotta hope my scam 401K doesn’t shit itself.
      Jan 6
  • Facebook public2
    Why would their be layoffs? Companies are killing it. Unless your division was shut down or made redundant I guess?
    Jan 2 3
  • Autodesk zIVN67
    You fix the roof when the sun is shining not when it’s raining.
    Jan 3 5
    • Sephora playah
      Did you just read a fortune cookie or ... ?
      Jan 3
    • Facebook / Eng
      B13captain

      Facebook Eng

      BIO
      New grad with 10yoe
      B13captainmore
      Evening MBA courses.
      Jan 4
    • Google / Eng Pfjhebs
      Hahahaha Facebook
      Jan 4
    • AdRoll / Eng ipopwc
      Fortune cookies are essentially an evening MBA course, close enough.
      Jan 5
    • Salesforce / Product BvFy21
      We got a Phoenix on our hands!
      Jan 6
  • Intel's last big one called ACT, "Accelerating Change and Transformation," of 13k people happened in 2016. Since then, to avoid bad press and WARN disclosures, HR and management learned it is better to stealthily let go of groups piecemeal and via "site consolidation" which they have done and continue to do. Still, awaiting the new CEO who will have carte blanche to enact another big layoff.

    Any thoughts from Cisco, another eternal layoff company?
    Jan 2 4
    • Cisco is always doing layoffs. At least 2 a year
      Jan 3
    • Microsoft DuAl11
      I love how companies disguise layoffs as “Transformation” I.e. fire the older higher level folks who brought those companies to prominence. “Fixed Mindset” is a long term employee who doesn’t want to drop 2 levels to take the same job. ACT=BS
      Jan 3
    • Expedia ECPeter
      Ut ohhhhh, that's what Expedia is calling this new project.... "Transformation"
      Jan 3
    • Intel GWGA84
      Now it'll be hidden under "Emerging Growth Incubation " lol .😂
      Jan 3
  • Tesla / Other ishwbzheh
    Elon got fired from the board
    Jan 3 1
    • Salesforce / Eng aaaaaaaaay
      By the SEC (well kinda... Settlements and what have you)
      Jan 4
  • Airbnb v55tw2
    I wish.
    Jan 3 12
    • O'Reilly Media / Finance
      Sandy L

      O'Reilly Media Finance

      PRE
      Amazon
      BIO
      Yes
      Sandy Lmore
      Chill out airbnb, get out more
      Jan 3
    • Airbnb v55tw2
      No one asked you, lOl’Reilly Media.
      Jan 3
    • O'Reilly Media / Finance
      Sandy L

      O'Reilly Media Finance

      PRE
      Amazon
      BIO
      Yes
      Sandy Lmore
      Looks like I accidentally hit a nerve, you good Airbnb?
      Jan 3
    • T-Mobile J29sk4l
      But O’Reilly, how are you able to speak around the prestige of Airbnb, Google, etc? We simply do not have the cloud to carry on conversations with the chosen ones! We are only Tier 5 lowly.... /s
      Jan 3
    • Airbnb v55tw2
      I have no idea how you got angst for my post lOl’Reilly but it makes you feel important, good for you. Rub a few. You too Troll-Mobile.
      Jan 3
    • O'Reilly Media / Finance
      Sandy L

      O'Reilly Media Finance

      PRE
      Amazon
      BIO
      Yes
      Sandy Lmore
      No one had angst for your post Airbnb, please get some help, you don’t seem well
      Jan 3
    • Amazon god
      Pips, please leave Airbnb alone. He wants to get laid off badly.
      Jan 3
    • Airbnb v55tw2
      And you seem like a bitter child, lOl’Reilly. Poor thing.
      Jan 3
    • Facebook / Eng
      B13captain

      Facebook Eng

      BIO
      New grad with 10yoe
      B13captainmore
      Airbnb, keep practicing, you’ll get into FANG eventually
      Jan 4
    • Apple hfr
      If this keeps going it’s gonna be another live action version of Avatar:

      AAANG
      Jan 4
  • SpaceX / Eng plmoknij
    Turnover is so high, just stop hiring
    Jan 3 0
  • Blizzard / Eng Jaina
    Plenty of rumors.
    Jan 3 8
    • Blizzard others
      Ayyy
      Jan 3
    • Blizzard atfchz
      Ayyy
      Jan 3
    • Blizzard / Product
      M”

      Blizzard Product

      PRE
      Blizzard
      M”more
      Ayy
      Jan 3
    • Amazon god
      Ay
      Jan 3
    • BlackRock Lary
      A
      Jan 3
    • New
      nfs

      New

      PRE
      Booking.com
      nfsmore
      No warcraft 4?
      Jan 4
    • Axon 40w range
      I guess we all don't have phones.
      Jan 4
    • Intel / Other Path2Zero
      Got eem
      Jan 4
  • Google plane
    No layoffs but heard lots of PIPs around me. Who knows
    Jan 3 8
    • Oath
      20

      Oath

      PRE
      Yahoo
      20more
      Pip in google?
      Jan 3
    • Indeed Cobol06
      About time. I’ve got a number of buddies working for Google; there’s just too many bad apples around them.
      Jan 3
    • The Home Depot rgLV21
      What’s a PIP?
      Jan 3
    • Johnson Controls / Eng
      NuaD64

      Johnson Controls Eng

      PRE
      Kohl’s, Google
      NuaD64more
      Performance Improvement Plan. Basically a way of warning you to start looking for something new as they're coming up with a way to fire you.
      Jan 3
    • Amazon god
      Wow coming up with a way. That’s too harsh
      Jan 3
    • Cruise Automation GMSpy
      Pips at google is nothing new. I’ve seen plenty in my time but usually due to complete burnout or fairly senior level after transfer
      Jan 4
    • VMware BobbleHat
      Piped for being senior... What?
      Jan 4
    • Cruise Automation GMSpy
      Being senior and not pulling wait. Non-seniors were rarely piped unless completely useless
      Jan 4
  • Amazon / Eng
    retire

    Amazon Eng

    PRE
    The Walt Disney Company
    retiremore
    There are rumors in my org, but that's it. We are closing two offices and combining them in a new location next year. That is probably driving the rumors.

    My commute time is increasing 6x after the move. Maybe enough people will quit to avoid the need for layoffs.
    Jan 2 8
    • Vertivco / Eng
      FastPapuan

      Vertivco Eng

      PRE
      Youtube, American Bureau of Shipping, Facebook
      FastPapuanmore
      Are you in LA?
      Jan 2
    • Amazon / Eng
      retire

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      The Walt Disney Company
      retiremore
      Colorado
      Jan 2
    • Closing Boulder or Denver?
      Jan 3
    • Amazon / Project
      Fulfilled

      Amazon Project

      BIO
      Operations Engineer leading retrofits and new FC launches.
      Fulfilledmore
      Hmm. I was thinking of moving out that way.
      Jan 3
    • Amazon / Eng
      retire

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      The Walt Disney Company
      retiremore
      Broomfield and one of the Denver offices are closing. They are getting a new one by 16th Street
      Jan 3
    • Which Org?
      Jan 3
    • New / Design
      htHV20

      New Design

      PRE
      GoPro
      htHV20more
      Same thing happened at Dundee Mifflin. I feel ya.
      Jan 3
    • Amazon / Eng
      retire

      Amazon Eng

      PRE
      The Walt Disney Company
      retiremore
      Broomfield is DCCS. I don't know about the Denver office.
      Jan 3
  • Apple / Eng Marijuana
    None at Apple.
    Jan 3 7
    • Amazon / Eng joycee
      Let's see tomorrow
      Jan 3
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      Haha sure let’s see. Seems unlikely though.
      Jan 3
    • Amazon / Eng joycee
      Maybe next week 😋
      Jan 3
    • Apple hfr
      Apple literally has more money sitting in our bank accounts currently than your company has made in profit in its entire history. I think we’ll manage to keep the staff we want to keep. ;)
      Jan 4
    • VMware BobbleHat
      “Keep the staff we want” is exactly what a layoff is.
      Jan 4
    • Apple hfr
      We manage people out just fine in good economies and no one calls it a layoff. Layoffs imply that we remove whole swaths of our staff out of a need to cut spending. It also implies we decide to do it to whole groups of people rather than individual decisions.

      Seems rather unlikely. We will probably manage people out and kill projects that aren’t succeeding at the same rate we always do. (And when we kill projects we have a pretty good track record of keeping our hands on anyone good who was working on them and making sure they find a team elsewhere.)

      People tend to be more sticky during recessions, so I can imagine the managing out requiring a little more force than it takes a nice economy where you can more easily suggest that someone shouldn’t expect much from their reviews in the future and maybe everyone would have a better time if they just took a job elsewhere. “I hear <insert company here> has some really generous offers lately!” works less well when the economy stops having as many generous offers.
      Jan 4
    • Amazon / Eng joycee
      Maybe they'll start paying you in iPhones instead of $$$
      Jan 4
  • New / Product
    s108

    New Product

    BIO
    Mostly startups. Interested in exploring new opportunities
    s108more
    Doubling our hiring this year.
    Jan 3 2
    • Pure Storage blingboob2
      What's the fucking point of you even replying to this thread?
      Jan 3
    • Amazon god
      Show off
      Jan 3
  • Facebook / Eng lmxuen
    We don't do layoffs, as we fire aggressively
    Jan 4 1
    • Facebook / Eng
      B13captain

      Facebook Eng

      BIO
      New grad with 10yoe
      B13captainmore
      Yep, you can judge the rate of firings by tracking # of blind posts
      Jan 4
  • Indeed ◼️◼️
    Hiring like crazy
    Jan 3 1
    • IKEA xAUC51
      Nice try “indeed”
      Jan 3
  • Verizon Anonyvzous
    Everyone volunteered.
    Jan 3 1
    • MapQuest uFpK08
      Are you in denver office ?
      Jan 3
  • IKEA xAUC51
    IKEA is a mess right now, stay away and let me know if you are hiring in supply chain !
    Jan 3 5
    • Pure Storage blingboob2
      Pure Storage, Operations is hiring. Look us up.
      Jan 3
    • Blue Cross Blue Shield H1B4Friend
      Amazon is hiring
      Jan 3
    • Amazon / Mgmt
      fohsop

      Amazon Mgmt

      PRE
      Goldman Sachs
      fohsopmore
      Yeah but don't come 🤣😂
      Jan 4
    • Facebook / Eng
      B13captain

      Facebook Eng

      BIO
      New grad with 10yoe
      B13captainmore
      Hopefully you guys can piece it all together
      Jan 4
    • Intel GWGA84
      Uh oh, is it a bad idea to buy Ikea furniture right now? Have they been cutting corners in quality, even more than usual?
      Jan 13
  • General Motors / Eng
    gim464

    General Motors Eng

    PRE
    General Motors
    gim464more
    We find out who gets hit in corporate on the 15th
    Jan 3 2
    • DoorDash ECis72
      Yikes.. Those are some big layoffs too.. good luck
      Jan 4
    • AdRoll / Eng ipopwc
      What’s it like working at GM?
      Jan 5
  • Bank of America BRjH71
    Banks layoff people all the time. I no longer worry about it
    Jan 3 2
    • Wells Fargo qUyB01
      Isn’t Moynihans vision 2020 done?
      Jan 3
    • Bank of America BRjH71
      Wait what's that
      Jan 5
  • ExxonMobil cyyv28
    Nope, hiring IT like crazy and can't find enough contractors.,.
    Jan 3 1
    • Plaid plintern
      Problem is yall still call it IT
      Jan 4
  • Intuit Merc77
    All day everyday!!!
    Jan 3 0
  • Oath
    20

    Oath

    PRE
    Yahoo
    20more
    Yup
    Jan 2 0
  • Indeed / Other
    unikorn

    Indeed Other

    PRE
    Google
    BIO
    Nope
    unikornmore
    Indeed approved over 6k headcount, 600 which are for engineers at the end of December. So we good and hiring. PM me software engineers.
    Jan 4 2
    • How many engineers does Indeed have? I would have thought the whole engineering org was like 600.
      Jan 4
    • Indeed / Other
      unikorn

      Indeed Other

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Nope
      unikornmore
      You're spot on for general software engineers. 2k and up if you count QA, SRE, TDM, etc.

      The 600 additional "engineers" I mentioned above is for software engineers, excluding the same group (QA, SRE, TDM).
      Jan 4
  • Cruise Automation NanixD
    Full speed ahead in terms of hiring. Gearing up for product launch in 2019, so most teams will be doubling in size. We need 200+ in the new Seattle office alone. Check out our tech talk + happy hour on 1/14. https://www.eventbrite.com/e/cruise-automation-tech-talk-happy-hour-tickets-53834491413?aff=IN
    Jan 3 4
    • Oath
      20

      Oath

      PRE
      Yahoo
      20more
      Such info is always helpful 😀
      Jan 3
    • Intel / Eng Ayy lmao
      I'm really happy to hear that. I really liked doing my onsite with cruise a month back. I would have joined if I had gotten the offer. Probably will interview again in the future.
      Jan 4
    • Cruise Automation TheDJT
      Feel free to reapply after 3-6+ months each quarter we review our headcount and will be open to reinterviewing on different teams. I know the infrastructure, product and AV engineering teams are all hiring a ton. I’m on infra and we typically use Go, python, some bash scripts. Kubernetes, Docker, AWS/GCP, Terraform, Bazel, CircleCI, Spinnaker, Helm, Datadog, Sumologic, New Relic. Looking primarily for strong backend engineers on engineering productivity.
      Jan 4
    • Intel / Eng Ayy lmao
      Thanks! I actually interviewed with the infra team. They looked pretty solid.
      Jan 4
  • Glassdoor Hfjcfyeh
    We at Glassdoor- a direct reflection of the labor market just had an incredible year, not because of our products, but because companies are still investing in hiring
    Jan 3 2
    • Indeed / Other
      unikorn

      Indeed Other

      PRE
      Google
      BIO
      Nope
      unikornmore
      My parent company just bought y'all. Welcome to the family!
      Jan 4
    • Zillow Group supafupa
      Hello from your old family
      Jan 4
  • Amazon VpYJ78
    Why would Amazon need to lay people off, they quit or get a pip on their own just fine
    Jan 3 0
  • Something in the middle: manage through artrition.

    Give people low or no raises and refreshers. If they leave, don't rehire. Don't offer an opportunity to work from a remote office or home for open positions that are not local. But keep hiring in India and couple of other offshore locations...
    Jan 4 2
    • Expedia
      fuggly

      Expedia

      PRE
      Google
      fugglymore
      Yup happening at Expedia.
      Jan 6
    • Is travel segment in recession?
      Jan 8
  • Netflix Nqac32
    Hiring!
    Jan 3 1
  • Facebook AyyoLeMayo
    Ya everyone is leaving and getting fired, the recession is coming, buy bitcoin
    Jan 4 0
  • Amazon / Eng tenders
    I hear SNAP is going to lay-off people again starting Q2
    Jan 3 0
  • Apple
    iSnac

    Apple

    PRE
    VMware
    iSnacmore
    Heard about layoffs at eBay. Any other?
    Jan 3 9
    • eBay / Eng
      mDBW53

      eBay Eng

      PRE
      NVIDIA
      mDBW53more
      I always here about layoffs nonstop. There’s been one over 2.5 years.
      Jan 3
    • eBay XMcL05
      What did you hear?
      Jan 3
    • Apple
      iSnac

      Apple

      PRE
      VMware
      iSnacmore
      A person I know got affected... A few more in that team as well
      Jan 3
    • eBay XMcL05
      When was that?
      Jan 3
    • Apple
      iSnac

      Apple

      PRE
      VMware
      iSnacmore
      This week
      Jan 3
    • eBay XMcL05
      That’s news to me! Do you know the team name by any chance?
      Jan 3
    • Amazon god
      Lol, Apple is stealing all the information. What other companies do you know iSnac?
      Jan 3
    • Oath
      newusery

      Oath

      PRE
      Google, Amazon, Uber, Airbnb, Facebook
      newuserymore
      Even the interns were talking about the layoffs at eBay
      Jan 4
    • Walmart.com SQL 🐒
      Who in the sane would not know about Layoffs at EBay. Have you seen the amount have change they have done to the site since 1995 .
      Jan 6
  • Capital One / Product
    youtellme

    Capital One Product

    PRE
    Google, Viacom, Capital One
    youtellmemore
    We're typically contemplating or executing on a layoff plan. Most often sometime during hire blitzes. Corporate Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder is to blame mostly.
    Jan 3 4
    • Capital One anKfiK8
      God CADHD is such a thing here
      Jan 3
    • Bank of America BRjH71
      But your new grad program is hiring
      Jan 3
    • Capital One anKfiK8
      TDP? Avoid.
      Jan 4
    • Bank of America BRjH71
      Why
      Jan 4
  • New HqGL55
    Anyone from coinbase? There was a news article about layoffs of customer service reps.
    Jan 3 3
    • O'Reilly Media / Finance
      Sandy L

      O'Reilly Media Finance

      PRE
      Amazon
      BIO
      Yes
      Sandy Lmore
      Yes
      Jan 3
    • New HqGL55
      Yes as in, more layoffs expected?
      Jan 3
    • O'Reilly Media / Data
      Tonya

      O'Reilly Media Data

      PRE
      Amazon
      BIO
      Yes
      Tonyamore
      No
      Jan 3
  • Contractor at At&t. 60% of my team laid off!
    Jan 3 2
    • New / Consultant
      BlindSense

      New Consultant

      PRE
      AT&T
      BlindSensemore
      The guy at the top is ridiculously bent on letting go of arbitrary 30% of workforce. I left and many will still go.
      Jan 3
    • Walmart.com SQL 🐒
      Bay Area office ?
      Jan 6
  • Nokia HuricanCR7
    4 figure layoffs by 2020: said the CEO. Not heard any big one yet. But something is coming.
    Jan 4 1
    • Walmart.com SQL 🐒
      I am sure you folks can jump ship to Apple
      Jan 6
  • Amazon / Eng smsn sns
    I work at Amazon. Its business as usual to layoff.
    Jan 3 0
  • Veritas andypandy
    Half the company
    Jan 3 0
  • SoFi nwOY38
    Hiring tons at SoFi this year.
    Jan 3 0
  • Bank of America blacKnight
    Bank of America has layoffs.. due to budget cut.. I just got hired 2 months back along with many others.. now they have laid off most of them.. now I am searching for Project 😭
    Jan 3 3
    • Washington Post / Eng
      birb

      Washington Post Eng

      PRE
      Washington Post
      birbmore
      Which team were you on? And location?
      Jan 3
    • O'Reilly Media / Finance
      Sandy L

      O'Reilly Media Finance

      PRE
      Amazon
      BIO
      Yes
      Sandy Lmore
      ^ communist
      Jan 3
    • Washington Post oTtY52
      :<
      Jan 5
  • New
    nfs

    New

    PRE
    Booking.com
    nfsmore
    Booking is hiring quite extensively
    Jan 4 2
    • Booking.com B.dronio
      Not really. At least not as aggressively as previous years.
      Jan 5
    • New
      nfs

      New

      PRE
      Booking.com
      nfsmore
      Previous years was too aggressive, caused a lot of issues that we are paying for now, dailing a bit back on quantity for the sake of higher quality recruitment is a good thing (IMO).
      Jan 5
  • SmileDirectClub / Project
    Episodic

    SmileDirectClub Project

    PRE
    CEVA Logistics, Lyft
    Episodicmore
    We've grown from around 800 when I joined last year in October to approximately 3000+ now. Pretty sure we're a-ok.
    Jan 3 2
    • VMware BobbleHat
      This is when layoffs happen, as soon as investor money slows down, you are all gone.
      Jan 4
    • Dropbox / Eng S3Bucket
      Why do you need 3000 people?
      Jan 4
  • Apple laid off half my team in November. The other half was told to wrap up all projects.
    Jan 3 1
    • New / Eng phokingr8
      Recession is coming, this summer, at a genius bar near you.
      Jan 3
  • Funding Circle Kahnefan
    No layoffs here. Hiring aggressively. Any Salesforce Devs looking for a job?
    Jan 3 1
    • Blue Cross Blue Shield H1B4Friend
      My friend in a recent grad MS CS looking for a job needs sponsorship lmk if you can help
      Jan 3
  • Upgrade / Mgmt
    AppDirect

    Upgrade Mgmt

    PRE
    AppDirect
    AppDirectmore
    10%
    Jan 3 1
  • GoDaddy / Mgmt ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    GoDaddy won’t do layoffs “around the holidays” (Thanksgiving- New Years). We’re posturing pretty aggressively to be acquired in 2019, there’s some pent up blood waiting to be spilled as a means to a lean operating model. The Indians (and HR Business Partners) are coming. I’d guess 5% in Q1.
    Jan 8 0
  • Facebook / Biz Dev Khakis
    I hear journalism is having a lot of layoffs these days.
    Jan 6 0
  • Sprint UyrR86
    After TMobile takes over.. dunno 😳🤯🙈
    Jan 6 0
  • New TKpg12
    Udacity.
    Jan 4 0
  • I I wish we had em
    Jan 4 0

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