I've been struggling to do so due to factors like people not believing in me (having to prove people wrong just to burn out and still not getting projects), and just in general working at startups that just need to figure out jobs definitions. Looking for any advice on how to successfully stay technical even if you're not given the projects, or what you did to stay in your role and change the dynamic! Edit: Thanks everyone for the multitude of perspectives! I’m feeling more empowered. I’ve had only a short career so far but I’ve been burnt out so many times already and it’s hard not to feel like I should just give up. Obviously based on the comments, this post would apply to anyone and the main question is still to get advice on if and when you recognize you’re stuck, woman, man, minority, rich, poor, etc. I’m in hardware with a so I’ve also held myself back because job hunting is a process for my field and I really really wanted this place to work out. Thanks everyone 🙏
Become a PM,
Don't shit on PMs. Most engineers think it's an easy job until they're on the other side.
Are you a PM?
^^ I disagree with Zillow. "Having to prove people wrong just to burn out and still not getting projects"... I proved that I can code once and have been coding ever since. A lot of it probably has to do with OP's company environment but I doubt a guy would be facing exactly what she is facing at her company.
You must be kidding. Guys are being driven to burnout and earn peanuts all around the world. Or you think being a guy shields you automatically from all the bad stuff? Faster you realize it is all about communicating properly and standing up for what you deserve, better you will do. I see everywhere around and experience myself all the time: you do not ask == you do not get.
Zillow, your logic has issues. Being a guy does NOT automatically shield you from all the bad stuff. No one has said the opposite. Being a woman in engineering has certain challenges that men don’t face. Similar to all other kind of discrimination, if you don’t see it, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist for others. You have not walked in the shoes of thousands of other women. This is not a zero sum game.
Hey, I so have 4 YOE and woman here. One thing that helps me tremendously is having friends around who embrace being a woman and create deep connections. I try to get out of my comfort zone and reach out to people, most of us women are so shy around forging new friendships so you gotta just be the one to do it. I love the book P*ssy-: a reclamation by Regina Thomasauer. I was literally laughing out loud reading this book when I found it in a bookstore. I regularly practice these tools with other women. This book helps give me tools to stay in my pleasure through the work day and process all kinds of emotions and to have fun no matter what. I have all kinds of bad days with the guys around at work, and some isolation feelings related to gender. But it becomes minuscule when my heart is alive and I’m connected with other women. I’d appreciate no trolls to this comment or trying to argue with my stance. Thanks.
Thanks for this. I love that part you said, "when my heart is alive". You're totally right about finding the right groups of people to support you. I'm at a point now where I'm trying to figure out how fill this last gap, where I'm yearning to keep learning and also figure out what I can do to help change this trend. It also hurts to hear so many friends struggle. Thanks for the book recommendation!! Love the title, gonna grab myself a copy :)
“I’d appreciate no trolls to this comment or trying to argue with my stance. Thanks.” Can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not but it’s funny either way lol
As a female in a technical role for over 30 years, I have become increasingly frustrated with IT in general and just want out. I have had all of the things you bring up happen over the years and now I'm looking for a totally different career path. I would say to stay current on technology and volunteer for additional and challenging tasks, always be on the lookout for your next role as NO ONE will look out for you but you. Find what you love doing the most and if not there, find a way to get there. I think I enjoyed my first role out of school better than most any I've had, but technology changed and I had to as well or gotten left behind. I'm not doing what I love and I regret it every day...don't be me...and, btw, women have to work twice as hard for half the recognition, it's a failing we need to work on reversing and hopefully you and your generation will be able to do so! Good luck!
Thank you for forging new grounds for us new career women 🙏 it wouldn’t have been the same without previous generations improving things
Totally agree with this!
Having a woman manger helps. Also don’t join a team where you are the only woman
I'm a guy but had a female technical mentor who is a great engineer. I asked her what's her secret and she said that for her it was about deep technical knowledge. She has very deep technical knowledge about things that others don't dare to look at. She would know how common libraries are implemented and the assumptions about the architecture. And she keeps learning and, specially, experimenting. She's also very respected and so she hangs out with great engineers too.
This falls in the category that women have to work twice as hard.
I'm not saying that's not true, but the way she sees it (and me too) is that the deterministic way to be more influential is knowledge and technical proof. After that, things seem to work. Of course, you get a head-start confidence-wise and projects-wise when others trust you more because of belonging to the same race or gender group, but the truth seems to eventually get revealed.
Became an IT PM for more money, better wlb and then I contribute to open source projects to scratch my technical itch
Super!
Be aggressive. Nobody is "given projects", you have to propose them yourself or fight for the good projects with believable design pitches. This is because they lead to promotion and growth. My first good project led to a publication and got dropped in my lap because nobody wanted it, my good luck. One of my most successful jobs started in week #1 by me asking for advice and my mentor saying, "be aggressive" and I had to fight 1-on-1 for the good project with a design proposal. I am not that aggressive by nature so learn how to overcome this in yourself as it's the #1 barrier to career growth. First 10y of my career I had all women managers but I am male.
What if the people you're trying to ask think you're just power hungry? I work alone and I asked my manager for a team to collaborate with. He assumed I was asking to be promoted.
There is nothing bad in being power hungry if you know what do to with this power and have all the tech background to use it productively for yourself and for the company.
Create a social group where you might talk about or collaborate on technical projects together. Add a study hour to your schedule every workday; you might not always get time for it, but once you can turn it into a habit you will have the time and mental/emotional permission to devote to personal development that will make you better even if it’s not directly relevant to your everyday role. I know this is a struggle but timeboxing your day helps a lot (I really like the Forest app for helping with focus). Also, (I struggle a lot with this too), if you are regularly burning out then you are working yourself too hard and to the point where you’re LESS effective than you would be if you worked less hours. Make sure you get enough sleep, eat well, and start journaling. Writing about your day is really important, or they will blend together and you will continue down a hopeless burnout spiral. Get a journaling app like day one. The first time you write, give yourself an hour or two. After that, you should only need like 20 mins. Write about your day; what happened, what went well, what you will do better.
This has nothing to do with you being woman. We are all in the same struggle.
If you are not a woman, you don’t experience the same things as a woman. Men don’t get a barrage of comments wearing them down, like “you’re too pretty to work with computers”; I also don’t know any male engineers who’ve had managers repeatedly make sexually suggestive comments to them in 1-1’s. I also can’t tell you how many meetings I’ve been in where stuff that I said (repeatedly) was ignored but then when a guy said the same thing verbatim either in the same meeting or weeks or months later, it was taken seriously and praised.
I can respect that but in this specific discussion I am focusing on that aspect of being a woman in tech and struggling with not only proving to others I can do this, but also to myself. That's ok if you don't think that being a woman makes a difference (like what would I give to not feel this way) but be empathetic that there are people who feel that way and it doesn't come from nowhere.