Anyone else feel like a second grade citizen?

Amazon hrwjwtjwtj
May 11 99 Comments

I am going through my VISA extension process and man it's a pain in the ass. First, I got RFE on my L1 and now my H1 didn't get picked. There are so many rules - 240 days rule, 30 day rule, 10 day rule and no one knows shit. Even the lawyers reply with a template email. I can't change my teams, can't move to another company, can't take any big life decisions. I am living away from my beautiful girlfriend and we get to see each other only once a year.

Do any of you wonder what is the point of all this? How are any of us free? This shit ain't going away until we get a Green Card and by the time that happens most of would be pushing 40s.

Everyday I am adjusting myself to the American culture. Minding my every word, watching my every move. I am sick and tired of being seen through the lens of stereotypes. "Aren't you people supposed to get married by now?", "Doesn't your food look like a dump?", "Aren't your parents supposed to pick the bride for you?", "Isn't your country a pile of shit?". We have constantly prove that not all of us are alike, that we like cool things too and my home isn't a pile of shit that you think it is.

I know that America is great. It's probably a heaven for techies like me. I would probably never get the money or the work like this elsewhere. But lately I have thinking that may be going back isn't the worst option after all.

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TOP 99 Comments
  • Veritas hsiwbvc
    Then leave lmao no one cares 😂
    May 117
    • Google ovBk62
      There's always that one person in this thread who has to comment this.
      May 11
    • Adobe lopers
      Maybe because it's justified? For big companies, even a CXO level person leaving is not a big deal since everything has been planned in advance...so who would care about a low-level drone leaving because their paperwork was inadequate in the eyes of another bureaucratic drone?
      May 11
    • Google / Enghooli.xyz
      @ovBk62

      “There's always that one person in this thread who has to comment this.”

      It makes sense though. If a country’s immigration policies are terrible, why go to that country?
      May 11
    • Amazon hrwjwtjwtj
      OP
      I was resisting the urge to reply to this, but this comment is getting undeserved attention, so I want to put an end to it.

      I know you don’t care man. Nobody cares about anyone. I didn’t post this on an anonymous app because I thought people cared. It is just a rant.

      @lopers: i am not a drone and my paperwork was not inadequate. You are living under a rock if you think adequate paperwork guarantees you a Visa. And I don’t think that my leaving this country is a big deal. I don’t know how you got that impression. Thanks for putting the words “low-level” though. Made my day.
      May 11
    • Adobe lopers
      OP get over yourself. You are a drone, the same as I am. Adequate paperwork doesn't guarantee a Visa, since nothing does in the end. And you're low-level since that's what I am as well. So again, get over yourself.

      PS I'm Indian too.
      May 11
    • Google ovBk62
      @hooli.xyz - because most good tech jobs and teams are here. It's unfortunate that immigration policies aren't merit based.
      May 11
    • LinkedIn ex-fb
      @hooli.xyz
      If a jobs working conditions are poor or salary is less than minimum wage, why would you work for it? So why even bother enforcing these?!
      Likewise if you were born in a third world country, you’d be doing the same —trying to immigrate for better quality of life. And if you had to wait for decades based on the country of birth than more meaningful metrics like skill, Youd probably think that country’s immigration policies aren’t great.

      End of the day where you’re born is a mere accident, yet determines a lot about your life.
      May 12
  • New 120dB
    literally speaking, you’re not a citizen
    May 112
    • Amazon hrwjwtjwtj
      OP
      Haha, true that.
      May 11
    • New 120dB
      I understand the pain though. It’s a lot of bs in the immigration process. sometimes it looks like is less of a pain to be undocumented than documeted and that is total BS
      May 11
  • Google / Enghooli.xyz
    “my home isn't a pile of shit”

    So why are you here in the U.S. and not back home?
    May 1135
    • Axtria DesiLaunda
      @hooli haha don't even talk about it. People immigrating to other countries are actually very small compared to people working on the ground in India.

      The social media is full of videos educating people on sexual consent, freedom of speech, and cleaning polluted rivers. Poetry events talk about it too, all the time. Corporate social responsibility is a part of almost every employer in India. I personally worked for 3 different non-profit organizations in India (I stayed in 3 different cities there) and the number of people attending those events was HUGE, even in the scorching sun. And we didn't even offer free-food to attract people, the way it happens in America.
      May 11
    • Microsoft spark
      I don't think they ll survive being shooted at in Midwest :P
      And yes, we are more advanced a civilization (by which I mean our country has existed far far longer) but if given the American culture and our level of diversity and population, it won't survive a day.

      When there were hurricanes and floods in Texas last year or before, people started robbing each other off 😂 you should research on how Mumbai comes together when they are faced with floods during monsoon
      May 11
    • Microsoft spark
      Anyway, my only point here is that India is not what you think or just what you have been told it is like. You are just choosing to look at it as a poor country. Just like America has problems, at times worse than India, you still love it for other great reasons. Similarly,if you knew more about India, you would know that there is so much more to like and want to stay there too.

      I understand that it will be difficult for anyone who hasn't grown up there to see that. Maybe you can just take our word for it? :)
      May 11
    • Google / Enghooli.xyz
      @spark

      “I understand that it will be difficult for anyone who hasn't grown up there to see that. Maybe you can just take our word for it? :)”

      Or maybe you can stop assuming every white American you talk to has never lived in India? :)

      Hint: Read my post history.
      May 11
    • Google / Enghooli.xyz
      @DesiLaunda

      “Corporate social responsibility is a part of almost every employer in India”

      LOL, what are you smoking? 😂

      I am having doubts as to whether you have actually lived in India.
      May 11
    • Lyft waud32
      Woah this google guy is a racist ignorant asshole.

      Please stay, we are not all like this and some of us do appreciate the knowledge and skills immigrants bring to this country.

      And yeah, the us immigration system does need improvement.
      May 11
    • Microsoft spark
      @hooli.xyz : well, sure... Great, if you have stayed in India. Geez, don't feel so offended, not like it's a stretch assuming that most Americans might not have visited India. Good for you, then I hope you really got an insight into Indian culture and didn't just visit as a tourist to see how poor and bad the country is. I know a lot of Americans who visited India and can't stop appreciating how much culture and love people harbor there. :)
      May 11
    • LinkedIn ex-fb
      @hooli.xyz
      Anyone who doesn’t admit that the US has better quality of life than India is just another jingoistic Indian who can’t admit India’s short comings! If any day take a couple of school shootings a year to being stuck in traffic and pollution everyday.
      That being said there’s a significant number of immigrants who’d return back to India, so arguably it’s not that bad at least in metro cities like Bangalore.
      May 12
    • Google / Enghooli.xyz
      When I lived in India, I always experienced warm welcomes, that I cannot deny. But I also gained insights on what needs to improve in Indian society.

      Which is why that talk by @DesiLauda on how India now has sex education in schools, rise of feminism, corporate social responsibility, clean rivers, etc sounds BS to me. I never saw any of those when I was there, in fact it was the opposite.

      I saw one guy get harassed by other guys in the office simply because of his family name (and other people acted like it was normal). I was confused as to why family names even matter but someone finally explained to me that it is related to caste.

      A super-smart, hard-working girl in the vendor team I was managing at the time suddenly became a low performer. Later, I found out she was pressured by her family to marry some guy she has never met.

      When I was in Hyderabad, there was this river south of the Google Hyderabad office that has garbage and sewage everywhere. East of the same Google office has a big lake that stinks pretty bad.

      I have lots of other stories during my time there. Even though I am white, I lived in Hyderabad and Bangalore for a combined two years so trying to argue with me that Bihar is equal to midwestern U.S. states is such bullshit.

      The U.S. has a lot of problems but those problems pale in comparison to India’s problems.

      Let me quote @spark again:

      ‘Lol, what I can't believe is how some people here think that Indians or the country India is poor 😂
      @hooli.xyz: all the things you said about misogyny, religious wars, corruption, Hindu Muslim riots, etc, exist in your country, babe. They are just called things like abortion laws, gun laws, Republicans/democrats, slavery, "being a good Christian", etc. You talk about our Bihar, we can talk about your mid west’

      I’d still rather have Republicans and occasional school shootings in the U.S. than the countless things I personally saw in India.
      May 12
    • LinkedIn ex-fb
      Very few Indians genuinely believe Bihar has the same Qol as Missouri.
      Problem with Indians is most of us have some serious insecurities and will never admit problems in this culture/country.
      That being said, being pressurised to marry someone you haven’t met etc while not impossible is not something I have heard of directly or even indirectly.

      As I said in my earlier comment, I’d take a few school shootings a year to living everyday in trash pollution and traffic jam
      May 12
  • Adobe lopers
    Here's the thing...if you're having to jump through hoops for a visa/GC you ARE a second class citizen no matter what some snowflake might tell you...so TC or GTFO
    May 112
    • Amazon / MgmtDb8db4
      To be very pedantic: the OP is not any class of US citizen by definition.
      May 11
    • Adobe lopers
      Try telling OP that...unfortunately, his "beautiful girlfriend" would probably ditch him the moment he couldn't convince her he wasn't a first class citizen next in line to be president
      May 11
  • Amazon / EngKUsP46
    Dude, i bet your girl is cheating on you.
    May 114
    • Axtria DesiLaunda
      Huh stop being so judgemental
      May 11
    • Amazon / EngKUsP46
      Fact of life I'm afraid. You cannot separate from a partner.
      May 11
    • Amazon hrwjwtjwtj
      OP
      Ah, thankfully I am not as insecure as you are.
      May 11
    • Axtria DesiLaunda
      @kusp Stop judging others with your fears and feeding insecurities into their mind.
      May 11
  • Microsoft bigsixhero
    The process is just as bad, if not worse, in many other countries. I think its by-design because if it was too easy to come and stay here then we’d have too many applicants.
    May 115
    • New worlz
      I don't think it's as bad in other places. Canada, Australia, Germany, Japan are all much easier. Maybe it's as bad in the UK but it's not the norm.
      May 11
    • Google / Enghooli.xyz
      @worlz

      “Canada, Australia, Germany, Japan are all much easier”

      So why don’t Indians go to Canada, Australia, Germany, and Japan instead of mass migrating to the U.S.?
      May 11
    • New worlz
      Those countries are trying to lure them in. The U.S. is lucky that they want to come here. You'd not be better off if they went somewhere else. If Sundar Pichai were running Baidu you wouldn't be better off. If Satyia weren't running MS, they wouldn't be better off.
      May 11
    • Google / Enghooli.xyz
      @worlz

      “U.S. is lucky that they want to come here”

      Is it really? I know that you know deep down there is more to it than luck.
      May 11
    • Microsoft spark
      I think Indians and Chinese have brought some life and economy in this otherwise empty country. Empty because of it's large size and not because the quality of people is poor. Even though I think that immigration is important for USA and keeps USA breathing and technology to advance. I don't think that Indians or Chinese should consider H1b or GC their birth right. If you can get it, you get it, else bad luck. It sucks, I know but even apart from these visa issues, life is not fair anyway. It applies to visa issues too. Not all of us get into Google/Facebook even though i might think I am so capable.

      I understand the frustration of having to leave this country and go back to India, but well, enjoy the life here till it lasts. Don't he sad that it might be over, enjoy the fact that it happened. Though, I hope it lasts forever for you.
      May 11
  • Uber zaqer
    Why don’t you go back from where ever you came from and be a first class citizen and be with your girl?
    May 111
    • Indeed dxsiChk
      Cause he wants to earn in dollars and act like an entitled prick
      May 12
  • SAP Man
    You have a visa. You're not a citizen. End of discussion.
    May 111
    • Yup .. OP please fix your title.
      May 11
  • New worlz
    Having gone through the bullshit myself and being lucky my country wasn't India, I've got my GC last year after 6 years here. If I were Indian, given the priority dates, I'd for sure move somewhere else. There are other places with good quality of life, interesting work, good education for your kids, and that you can have a good life.
    May 110
  • Trump might wake up one day and give everyone green cards .. it is coming soon!
    May 112
    • Microsoft grm
      You must be smoking something really good!
      May 11
    • Yup .. and when trump sniffs this shit .. I tell u everyone gets GCs next day.
      May 11
  • LinkedIn ex-fb
    Struggles of immigration system in the US is true, and yes, an immigration system based on country of birth and not skill helps no one.

    But please stop pretending that the US is more racist than India!!

    Which country do more marriages/breakup’s happen because of the ethnicity of the person? It happened in the US 40 years ago, but Indian culture has not yet caught up!

    In which country do people stereotype/judge you more? You aren’t asked for your marital status or last name when renting a house in the US, unlike Bangalore! How socially accepted are gays?
    May 121
    • Microsoft bigsixhero
      Are you implying that they judge you based on your marital status and last name in India before you can rent? What exactly can be garnered from a last name? Aren’t there a million Patels and Singhs? What has society said about this?
      May 12
  • Okta doll$h
    I think the system is just old. Lots of politicians are trying to upgrade it to make it simpler and fair. It just needs a huge overhaul. Politics is not that easy, homie!
    Note: this hooli dude needs to chill. 😆Spread some love, mate!
    May 111
    • Google / Enghooli.xyz
      I am spreading logic. I am actually trying to show Indians they need to take control of their destiny instead of blindly immigrating to a hostile environment.
      May 11
  • EMC yskV77
    Technically your not even a second grade citizen, until you get citizenship
    May 110
  • Indeed dxsiChk
    Don’t like it? Then GTFO. No one is forcing you to stay
    May 110
  • Pandora scrolllock
    That sucks OP. The immigration system seems pretty ridiculous, and the personal stuff, the stereotypes? Report that shit, that’s basically racism.

    I’d be for fast-tracking highly skilled workers toward citizenship, but what do I know, in a leftist libtard snowflake
    May 110
  • New / OtherAuntHilda
    Well, it's fair for you to vent and most of what you said is true. The good news is we all have a choice. We are in the same boat and got Canadian PR. Not saying we will relocate but if I am anywhere closer to the frustration you are facing right now, I would relocate to Canada. Life is too short to vent. What you are going to do with all the $$$ if you can't sleep with peace?
    May 110
  • Microsoft azureg
    you are not a citizen, so by definition, you are not a second grade citizen. You are free to leave frankly speaking. I know this is not nice, but it is true. You enslaved yourself.

    People like you who compete with guaranteed “loyalty” advantage are really unbeatable in job market. When you complain, just remember people haven’t had what you have had too.
    May 115
    • Amazon hrwjwtjwtj
      OP
      I didn’t understand your point. What do you mean by guaranteed “loyalty” advantage?
      May 11
    • Microsoft azureg
      You said “I can't change my teams, can't move to another company, can't take any big life decisions.” Don’t you know this is exactly what made you more competitive than others?
      May 11
    • Microsoft azureg
      My point was simply that you are free to complain about your life, but you are exactly part of the problem to many people.
      May 11
    • Amazon hrwjwtjwtj
      OP
      Actually, I didn’t know that it made me competitive. I always thought that a person who can walk out any minute has more leverage.
      May 11
    • Microsoft azureg
      no one born with experience and skills. People with L1 visa have systematical advantages compare to local hires because you cannot easily change your job, and your education/training are done in cheaper countries. Companies hire L1 because they think they can do the job, also because they help to save training cost and cheaper.

      If the government don’t put a cap to the number of L1 and H1 and what people can do with these visa, local fresh graduates won’t be able to find any job in the job market. Do you think a law that results in American office with 90% foreigners is better and more fair than the current one? Does your country have law to share 90% most wanted jobs to foreigners?
      May 12
  • Amazon 22/7
    On a positive note, most of the above will remain same even after you get GC or even Citizenship. As long as you want to get ahead in life in a playground created by the current system and bias, peer pressure, and competition you’ll have to play by the rules.

    I have seen white American under much more pressure than L1 visa holder because the former was trying to achieve the next level.
    May 112
    • Dropbox drl/
      What?????
      May 11
    • Amazon 22/7
      Most of the struggles he’s describing will not go away dramatically after his GC. In other words every one has those problems with some variations.
      May 12
  • Lyft Automoto
    Been through similar situation, was frustrated and realized. You need to “accept” and understand your priorities, if family and feeling free to travel is important then it is fine. Go to India, places like Hyderabad have good pay in tech and cost of living is low. Unless you accept what you are and want to be, you’ll never be happy.

    When it comes to earning money, what is worth today is not the same a year from now. India is in a great economic growth trajectory. One could invest and make even more. Remember, investing in yourself is good but investing what you make in the right place is what automates you out of a working job.

    In my case, I accepted that I could lose everything in the US in a blink of an eye or a tweet/exec order from Trump. Even if I go back home, I will be doing the same thing so why not work in US and make the most of it.
    May 110
  • Facebook bilibili
    Just for the title: not sure which grade you are in your home country, but apparently you are not a US citizen here (me neither), so really should not expect whichever grade you were expecting.
    May 110
  • OpenTable Meliodas
    If coworkers are making derogatory comments on the basis of your ethnicity, country of origin, religion, or ethnicity report it to HR, the behavior is unlawful.

    Doing something about it is the only way to get it to stop.
    May 110
  • New / Enghde57jg
    The problem with your logic is that you are not a citizen. So you can't be a first rate citizen by definition?

    Try immigrating to Canada or Australia or even worse Japan! Those places are hard to get into.
    May 114
    • Apple / EnggtUh6$
      I can tell you, if you have a grad degree and work experience you can get a GC in Japan so easily. No attorney fee, ridiculous immigration app fee. Don’t know about other countries, but Japan is totally different for what is worth.
      May 11
    • New / Enghde57jg
      Forgive me. My info is probably out of date. The last I looked was about 6 years ago and before I finished my bachelor's.
      May 11
    • Apple / EnggtUh6$
      But you said “even worse Japan”. Honestly, even the, it was not hard to get a work visa as long as you had a job offer. Nowadays if you have grad degree and some good professional record, you don’t even need a job offer.

      Pretty classic to see this kind of comment on blind, though
      May 11
    • LinkedIn ex-fb
      Getting into Canada is a lot more easier.
      May 12
  • Apple / EnggtUh6$
    There’s a lot of people in this world who’s life decisions are made by others. You were lucky enough to make the decision of coming here on your own, so own it! If you decide to go back or go to another country where things are different, you own it too! Don’t be a hypocrite by saying something a keep doing the opposite, be a grown up
    May 112
    • Google / Enghooli.xyz
      +1
      May 11
    • Amazon hrwjwtjwtj
      OP
      I totally agree with you. I do have choices. A lot of people don’t. Maybe I will feel better after some self reflection.
      May 11
  • Microsoft / R&Dpr~
    Cribbing? Why? Your decision, own it or GTFO. Life ain't easy.
    May 110
  • Facebook ;()$&@“(:/
    Wapis jaa aur india main next facebook banao.

    #makeinindia
    May 110

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