I had always been a top performer and got good ratings every year until...
I went on maternity leave last year and it has impacted my career big time. I am not able to recover from it even after a year.
There was a reorg and I was the only person who knew about this project. I trained the entire team who were moved from different teams including the manager and brought them up to speed.
Till the last day of my maternity leave I was working in office till 8 pm for 6 months. There were 2 critical projects I was working on and I really didn’t want them to fail. Both the projects were successful.
While I was out, there was another reorg and my reporting manager was changed
I returned back after 3 months in June and got my annual review in September under this new manager. To my horror I got the worst review of all times, with barely any hike and bonus.
I was depressed for several months and even cursed myself for putting job ahead of my health and my personal life. I still get tears in my eyes when I think of it.
I didn’t go to the HR or discuss it with anyone. I have accepted it for being my fault because I worked for 3 months less than others and should not have excepted for higher bonus. I am from India and have seen this kind of discrimination happen all the time to the extent that it feels normal.
I just need advice on how to get over it and build back my career. I am no longer as motivated as before and don’t believe things will ever change.
On one hand Apple supports programs to bring back women who took break to take care of their kids on another hand they these kind of discriminations have become a common thing.
I had always been a top performer and got good ratings every year until...
- @tier 1 Microsoft manager written instructions on HR web is to evaluate people by their performance excluding the leave. Managers at Microsoft are not to apply any performance rating for the period an employee is on leave (pregnancy, birth or otherwise). Now that's the rule, it doesn't mean that the average manager know it or that it is followed.
That said because it is the rule, if you can get a manager to commit to the record that they come up to the rating by using instead the method you describe, then you have a clear case to bring to HR for improper evaluation and request a correction to your performance record as well as back pay.
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- I mean, yeah, if you do less, you deserve less. Having a kid is a choice. Working less is a choice.
- Generally at Google you are evaluated for the time you actually spent at work so what is being said there is just nonsense.
This means that if you're gone for a quarter you don't get evaluated, and if you had good month before going for 2 months out, only that single month counts in.
People taking long leave don't immediately land on PIP so by no means OPs opinion represents what things are.
- 84.51˚ lassoNot to sound like an asshole but why are people still having kids and trying to go green at the same time? We have enough people on this planet. Stop having KIDS.
- Just wanted to say I love everyone on this thread! Usually on anonymous threads like blind you see a lot of trolls trying to break each other down. But in this thread I see a lot of women trying to help women and giving honest humble thoughts. Love it!
- No offense, but this is just what everyone experiences with bad managers. Lots of people get bad managers and unfair performance reviews. I've been a top performer under one manager and pipped under another manager, the trick is to not bother you because it's just random luck. Don't worry and change managers, you will be fine! Don't take it personal! I've been on 2 pips from FANG!
- Capital One / Eng Luigi1111Thank you for sharing! Yeah, same thing happened to me. Top performer and huge retention bonuses under one manager and pipped under another manager! Same work ethic and positive attitude. It is all so corrupt haha. I thought it was random and corrupt but then I thought I was just being delusional lol.
- On one hand don't suffer in silence. On the other, be fully aware walking into any HR conversation that whatever fairy tale they tell you their job is to protect the company from a lawsuit. It is not to make employees happy. It is not to be fair. Also, realize that many HR employee are low skill and poorly paid, sometimes even vendor'ed out hence don't really have a stake in the gig. So it is not easy to work with them for a complaint. You need to be ready for an uphill battle where their inaction will be the enemy. You will need to take charge. Educate yourself, ideally with a friend lawyer or outright hire one. It's a lot of work.
Personally I would not want to take it up and instead vote with my feet (I.e. Go interview elsewhere and leave).Jul 1, 2018 18
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- Facebook / Eng xymhxxqwSame here. Worked so hard during my pregnancy and ended up a miscarriage. Only got an average rating after time off for surgery. Feel regretful on working hard. Blamed myself on putting too much effort on work to cause a miscarriage. Next time will put my baby and family first!
- Tableau fBCz83Our time is so limited. Starting a family is a major time commitment. Their youth goes by so quickly. I know a lot of tech parents with kids headed to or in college. It is really common for them to wish they had more time with the kids when they were young. None have said to me they wished they had spent more time on project A or B. There are family friendly companies out there where people work and are rewarded as a team and take the time to support each other.Jul 5, 2018 2
- I highly suggest you leave apple. I used to work there. My manager asked me if I wanted to grow and I obviously said yes. He said he just wanted to make sure before going to bat for me. And then he warned me “FYI I see things behind the scenes and I just want you to know this is no place for a woman, especially a woman that wants to have a family or other life outside of work.” Also HR is worthless at Apple. Don’t bother going to them. They just document but don’t do anything and then your management finds out about it and starts acting weird around you and not giving you opportunities where they’ll have to deal with you. I could go on and on but my advice ultimately is just to get out. This is coming from someone who was consistently too performer in their dept. I left and it’s a totally different world working for more well rounded progressive companies in sf. All companies have their problems but I think a big root cause at Apple is that there are so many fanatics that they will put up with being treated badly so if it bothers you you’re the only one to stand up for change. Everyone at Apple thinks it’s Apple or die and there’s nothing else they could ever be doing. When in all reality they could go anywhere and get paid more too. It’s very weird and unhealthy.
- Well, if women keep quitting after maternity leave, it will feed into their cycle of reviewing women poorly during maternity leave.
Also, if women silently quit, how will they understand what the problem is? Women who have already left, should email Apple CEO and make him aware what's happening. Women who are planning to quit, should send that email after they quit. If the CEO cares, he can look into the review records and find the patterns. At least things might improve for the other women still in there.
Don't let your sacrifice (quitting job) be in vain. Let something good come out of it.
- Sad choices. My brother and another cousin brother, chose their careers with stay at home wives. Both now have kids in college who have zero bonding with them, and only share with their moms. Dads in both cases are simply there to pay bills and write checks. Sadly, even if the kids want expensive iPhone and such, they ask their mom to ask the dad, and do not approach dad directly.
- Lending club, you need to understand more. The case OP posted is a classic example. Women get discouraged with bad reviews and poor support after maternity leave. The problem is not that they had kids, the problem is that they were discriminated against and lost their mojo for work after having kids.
- Pure Storage orangeg769Lending Club, you’ve got bad intel or are basing this opinion of productivity off one-off experiences.
Over the past couple years research has shown that women returning to corporate work after maternity leave overwhelmingly out-work their peers because they feel pressure to prove themselves. They do this by working off-hours and weekends. Often they are judged for having hard stops earlier in the day (4-5pm) in order to pickup kids / take care of their family, but go back to work once the kids go down and work until late at night. Talk to any working mom - this is norm.Jul 1, 2018 7
- The impact is certainly more severe for women. Now men also get posed the same question. Just earlier this week I got asked to reflect about my priorities. I respect the manager for at least been open about it even if it is horrible to have to admit that's what our industry does.
- I’ll give you my advise, From one mom (2xkids) to another: 1) Apple or any big company these days can take up as much time as YOU give it. 2) you’re never done at Apple, you just get more work. 3) there is ALWAYS more work to do at Apple 4) figure out what you’re cat-1s are at work and focus on them, expand to cat-2 if you have time, don’t care about cat-3. (If you don’t know this terminology, ask around and take the what makes Apple, Apple course at Apple University) 5) strictly define your work hours and stick to it, kids are little only for a short time, it’ll be done before you know it. I agree, It’s easier said than done— it’s tough to attend 5pm meetings and tougher to set them up. Trust that Apple has a good culture, which it does— it’s about the language you use to manage your hours and yourself. Learn the language to say no, keep it short and sweet, and leave promptly at the time you want to leave, don’t drag yourself into 7pm, it’s not worth it.
- + if you feel unjust about previous years’ compensation, you should have an open conversation about it. Don’t dodge it, prepare the language that makes you comfortable to have that conversation and stick to your script. Talk about the value you created and why you think the raise did not meet your expectations. You’ll be surprised at the feedback when you can communicate it well. Don’t expect people know— they simply don’t — maybe they didn’t care to think about it, or they are preoccupied with too much on their mind. PM if you need help to construct your script.Jul 2, 2018 4
- Amazon kTQL31This type of thing doesn't just happen to mothers but to fathers as well.
I went off on paternity leave after having my first child and was rated poorly that year. My manager kept insisting the whole time he was discussing the review with me that it had nothing to do with my leave. Yeah right, ass wipe! This was a while ago. In hindsight, I should have made a bigger deal about it.
I think you should talk to a lawyer first, then escalate it to HR, your skip and his skip. Don't take it laying down! Don't accept this as normal. Otherwise, they'll never learn!
- Microsoft ZuziThe point of establishing credibility before going on maternity leave is to cash it in after you return, when you need it most. That cannot be done with a new manager who doesn’t know you, the only thing you bring back is the context of you having been away for a few months and the subconscious bias of you being busier than others at home. So solution is to either change teams to work with your old manager (to cash in on credibility you’d established with them) or to a new team who won’t at least have the subconscious bias of you being away for a few months. Alternatively, you can stay and establish credibility in the new team from scratch if you are happy with everything else and it’s your comfort zone. However, feeling sorry for yourself only hurts you more. As much as it sucks, try to look forward.
- Apple / Eng techie12Don’t listen to people who say HR won’t do anything because they are there to protect the company. The bay area’s tech culture is screwed because of these people’s attitude. It is true that’s HR is here to protect the company, but that doesn’t mean they will protect your manager at any cost. They are also afraid of you filing a lawsuit because you were discriminated against after maternity leave. This is pretty serious and every company knows that. So if you have proof, documents, witnesses, etc, file a report to HR and take a step forward in improving the culture for yourself and others!
- Apple FudgeHeadmoreMake sure you are not suffering from postpartum depression. Talk to your doctor if you cannot shake this incident and focus on work or family.
- No, but feeling down, loss of confidence could be.
PPD sadly goes largely undiagnosed. The bad review and clueless boss can be an aggravating factor.
There is no shame in acknowledging and getting treatment for PPD. My Wife did it. I’m proud of her, and learned a lot myself in the process.
Too many stigmas associated with depressions cause people not too look for treatment.
You are NOT crazy. But look for help, like you would if you had any other kind of medical condition.
- The OP said “I was depressed for several months”, and is looking for advice how to get over it.
This is my advice: talk to a professional. Even if the depression is unrelated to the birth. Get diagnosed, get treated.
Just changing job is unlikely to get to the root of a depression if there is one.
No belittling at all from me here. You are the one doing the belittling if you think depression is not an issue worth talking about.Jul 2, 2018 3
- Amazon / Eng whoopseymoreYou can take the matter to HR if u feel maternity leave made them to give you a bad rating... every company is sensitive about pregnancy and maternity and there are strict laws around it... most of the companies also let you change teams once you are back from maternity leave