Average yoe from new grad to senior

Riot Games IlllIlIlII
Sep 11 18 Comments

I'm trying to decide between a few offers right now with similarish TC. So far I have offers from Google, Microsoft, Bloomberg, and Riot Games. I'm in the interview process with Palantir, Facebook, and Twitter, but I may have to pull out due to Microsoft deadlines.

Google (116 base, 160 stock, 50 sign on)
Microsoft (110 base, 120 stock, 50 sign on + 18 relo)
Riot (125 base, 18 ssp, 20 sign on)
Bloomberg (135 base, 0 stock, 30 sign on)

My focus is learning and maximizing opportunities I can get further in my career, in the event that I want to switch companies.

Starting at the lowest level for all of them, I'm wondering what is the expected yoe it would take to get to Senior SWE level at these respective companies. Industry standard Senior, since you can get Senior at Bloomberg a lot easier than other places lol.

Thanks!

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TOP 18 Comments
  • Google / Eng
    proletaria

    Google Eng

    BIO
    Workers of the world, unite!
    proletariamore
    Speaking only from my experience at Google:

    The new grad to L5 (senior) timeline can be anywhere from 2.5 years (have two friends who've done that), to well over 4 years.

    I'd say expect 4 +/- 1 years for L5 from new grad (2 +/- 0.5 years for L4).

    My experience has been that those who come into the company as new grads tend to get promoted faster (mostly due to selection bias; the people coming in as new grads tend to be better engineers imo).

    If you want to maximize future opportunities, I don't think any brand name has as much value on your resume as Google.

    In terms of overall growth and learning, Google is massive and you can move around fairly easily, but the work afforded to junior workers tends to be fairly routine or boring. However, there's a ton of internal resources for growth, from free classes and big education reimbursements, to design docs explaining major architecture that doesn't even exist anywhere else.

    I'm leaving next month, but I'd definitely recommend Google as a good first job for a new grad.
    Sep 12 4
    • Microsoft betaco
      Do you think what most people learn from Google is the internal stack that are not applicable elsewhere? While I do agree Google offers lots of learning resources and opportunities, they are not necessarily “transferrable” knowledge at all.
      Sep 12
    • Google / Eng
      proletaria

      Google Eng

      BIO
      Workers of the world, unite!
      proletariamore
      The way I think about it: Google's stack is unique and in many ways appears better than external alternatives. While at Google, I rarely had to worry about scalibility or choice of backend stack, since there were well established, highly reliable patterns for standing up services.

      As a new grad engineer, I think it's more important to get into the groove of software development and train communication skills, rather than get sidetracked by issues of scale and server maintenance.

      Once that foundation is strong, then it would make sense to learn more about specifics of how scalibility, maintenance and other more nuanced issues work.

      That's partly why I'm leaving: I want to be in an environment where I'm forced to deal with issues of scale and maintainability, but that's only after I've already nurtured a solid core of software development and communication skills.
      Sep 12
    • Microsoft betaco
      Agree. Google does offer a very solid foundation of all the best engineering practices, also communication skills as well :) Mind if I ask where you are heading to?
      Sep 12
    • Google / Eng
      proletaria

      Google Eng

      BIO
      Workers of the world, unite!
      proletariamore
      Stripe!
      Sep 12
  • Microsoft betaco
    How come Microsoft reloc is 18k? :o Last year it was only 5k!!
    Sep 11 1
    • Microsoft / Product SeeF84
      International
      Sep 12
  • Epic
    spin shark

    Epic

    PRE
    Microsoft
    spin sharkmore
    Google: 5y from L3->L5
    Microsoft: 5y from 59->63
    Bloomberg: 2y to Senior

    Take Google since their levels are valued more at other companies.

    63 from Microsoft often gets downleveled to L4 at Google, while Senior at Bloomberg with 5 yoe gets downleveled to L3 even or 62 at Microsoft.
    Sep 11 2
    • Epic
      spin shark

      Epic

      PRE
      Microsoft
      spin sharkmore
      These are averages, not fast
      Sep 11
    • Microsoft jPzm21
      Average at Microsoft is 2 years per level through 62 and 3 years per level after that.
      Sep 11
  • Intel / Eng Wlbyo
    Congrats! I would guess 5-7 years?
    MSFT offer looks pretty good. What org?
    Sep 11 3
    • Riot Games IlllIlIlII
      OP
      Thanks! It's with Azure
      Sep 11
    • Intel / Eng Wlbyo
      Very nice!
      Sep 11
    • Microsoft / Product SeeF84
      5-7 is a little fast but azure is currently a rocket ship so I'd say somewhere between 5-9 depending on ability / visibility
      Sep 12
  • Riot Games sKSV27
    Based on TC I'm guessing you got an Assoc offer from Riot. 4-5 is a reasonable ball park, with changes coming up to better align levels to industry, I foresee a shift slightly downward, notably the jump from mid to senior.
    Sep 12 2
    • Riot Games qHdjVwo
      Do you know what kind of upleveling/downleveling would occur if one we're to leave Riot? Would an Senior leaving Riot be equivalent to and L5 at G?
      Sep 12
    • Riot Games sKSV27
      Fwiw I'm on the opposite side, having hired former googlers into Riot. But with some of that realignment work, goal would be that a senior maps to L5, staff to L6. Anything beyond gets fuzzy and frankly most places tend to not hire at that level much vs promoting up.
      Sep 12
  • Microsoft jPzm21
    Fastest at Microsoft would be 3.5 years and you’d have to come in under leveled at 59. 1 year per level is extremely fast, but I’ve seen it done through first level Principal a couple of times. More than a couple times to Senior.
    Sep 11 0