Dealing with relationship situation

Salesforce
Dje8474

Salesforce

BIO
I am blind to something and you are too.
Dje8474more
Nov 24, 2018 221 Comments

Guys,
I need help.

I'm female, 33, TC 350k.
I've been in a relationship with this man I completely love for around 4.5 years. I'm in SF and he lives on the east coast, is completing his PhD as of end 2019 in mathematics. The topic of marriage has come up and we are running against a wall.

He wants to apply for faculty positions and is willing to go through as many post doctorates to make that work. In the process of this, he wants to keep his options open to US, Canada, Europe and India. He is saying that, if you want stability or be with me, you need to be prepared to scale down your career. He says that he has no choice given his academic ambitions, and he is not going to be willing to be made to feel guilty for messing up my career, he absolutely wants children and that if I have to marry him, I need to be prepared to scale back my ambitions if it means that he finds tenure track in a small town with no tech growth.

I on the other hand, have worked really hard to get to where I am. I've worked at 3 early stage startups, two of which got acquired, am currently at Amazon. I'm based in SF. Honestly, I don't think tech is worth it outside of SF, Seattle and NYC, and if you extend internationally, maybe London. But honestly, outside of these places, I'm not hopeful. I feel anger that he's asking this kind of one sided sacrifice from me.

I told him, for us to be happy, we both need to feel self actualized. If I sacrifice in the initial stages, I'm doing to need you to return the favor later in even if it means not being in academia for a while. We both need to have our chance at success. He goes like, I can't promise to that. I told him, then let's keep kids as optional, and consider it if our careers can converge to a location. He's like, he is not willing to sacrifice having birth children.

We've been fiercely arguing last few months. He's made it damn clear that if I have to marry him I need to take on the burden of moving to make things work.

I also suggested that why not we wait a couple of years to marry. He's against this as well. He's like it better happen now, if we don't marry in 2019 it's not happening. I can't wait longer.

He claims to love me and says he cannot live without me. Asking the blind community for help. Will add more details as needed.

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TOP 221 Comments
  • Google Groogle
    You are so lucky the guy is very honest and clear upfront.
    Nov 24, 2018 3
    • Pandora tIbk87
      But also unlucky the guy is an uncompromising egotist.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Oracle of · Nada
      @Pandora welcome to academia
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Facebook / Eng
      vBiW66

      Facebook Eng

      PRE
      Facebook
      BIO
      Move fast
      vBiW66more
      Four years is not upfront
      Nov 24, 2018
  • Intel / Sales LastMan
    Trust me... tech won’t be worth even in SF in 6 months time.. the party is over.. take long term perspective..
    Nov 24, 2018 4
    • Microsoft / Eng Dr. 13
      What makes you think the party is over?
      Nov 24, 2018
    • MuleSoft Damndaniel
      Whatt? Sales dood/gal has no idea what he/she is saying!
      Nov 24, 2018
    • I agree.. the party at Intel is long over!
      @OP - no better place than the Bay for you girl!
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Intel / Sales LastMan
      intel will chug along.... not sure sure about CRM and others .. hype has been going on for long time.. just wait for next rate hike (mid dec).. it’s just economics babe/dude..
      Nov 24, 2018
  • Pandora tIbk87
    His great ambition is to get tenure in a small town? Dump him. His ambitions aren't big enough to justify his ego.
    Nov 24, 2018 0
  • Salesforce
    Dje8474

    Salesforce

    BIO
    I am blind to something and you are too.
    Dje8474more
    OP
    Guys, I've been thinking about all this. I did bring up a lot of this with my boyfriend. He reiterates his position:
    1) a long distance beyond 2 years is unacceptable.
    2) it will take him up to 7-8 years for tenure and he expects me to move around with him to small towns as well.
    3) he thinks I should be modest enough to survive on an academics salary if needed if I can't find employment.
    4) he's not willing to wait to marry

    I told him,
    1) i would like to wait till we have more info, maybe a year to 18 months to marry
    2) I cannot keep moving every year or every other year, inter country, wherever his post doc works. But I'm willing to hold down a family and deal with it alone. I'll move only once it looks like he's putting down roots (tenure track) to the closest city I can find an opportunity (not to a small college town)
    3) I told him that I've supported him through his academic journey (his first PhD was a drop out and this is his second attempt at which he's doing really well) only because I'm an extremely strong woman. Part of that is having my own professional situation and needing to maintain that. That my strength isn't free of cost.
    4) I need to maintain my income because he won't be able to support my lifestyle. Also he will need to reduce his workaholism if he wants any compromise from me, because if I do that I'll be making him the center of my life, giving up my income potential and I'm not going to be second fiddle to his work all the time.

    We aren't talking. It's stalemate. I'm praying for the best. Preparing for the worst. Give me strength :(
    Nov 26, 2018 5
    • Qualcomm
      TcTcTc

      Qualcomm

      PRE
      Apple, Intel, Cisco
      TcTcTcmore
      why are you dragging it out? it seems that the cleanest solution is to break up. It may not be the best time to break due to the holidays and emotions going around this time of the year, but you should do it so that you can start a new year fresh and with a clear mindset.

      btw, kudos to you for standing your position.
      Nov 26, 2018
    • U.S. Dpt. of Veterans Affairs / Other 😃😄😃meh
      This guys is dumb and too egotistic. Survive on academic salary? Does he understand what that even means? When he realizes he can’t afford vacations or nice stuff for his kids or his kids college tuition, who is he going to complain to? When good healthcare isn’t affordable, what is he going to do? You need to dump him ASAP. Divorce comes often from financial struggles. Don’t do this OP. Don’t give up your career to follow an egotistic dumbass who you can’t depend on. I have seen this happen before, and the guy dumps the girl because he looks down on her the moment he becomes stronger.

      Plus, he failed his first PhD.... gtfo. He isn’t going to get tenure. Tenure positions are basically nonexistent, and people from ivies have a hard time getting them. And it means nothing nowadays considering tenured position won’t even hit 100k for majority of places. You are literally downgrading not only your lifestyle but your golden years and retirement funding.
      2 year long distance is unacceptable? So is having to worry about putting food on the table and when the economy goes to shit and he is making 30k for 7-10 years. Forget about marriage. You won’t be able to afford to have kids at his salary, or afford the hospital bills from delivering the kids.

      He might be hardheaded about this issue became he failed his first PhD and is doing this to prove something. His attitude, future TC, and ability to communicate and compromise aren’t marriage material. You gave him many options and he isn’t willing to budge. Marrying him means you will be his maid and cater to every single part of his need esp if you depend on him financially.
      Break up and get on Hinge / Tinder / CMB.
      Nov 26, 2018
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      Both of us dropped out together in the middle of our first attempt. Shitty advisor. And no funding. I joined a startup founding team and he started at a different University because he wanted to do pure math. Both of us did really well in our respective careers after that hiccup. Thanks for your message. It's putting things in perspective. But it's hard because we have shared so much together.
      Nov 26, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng Am A Bot
      I’m going to call out some things that I hope help you break the stalemate. Look up “sunk cost fallacy” online. It’s real, very compelling and we humans are a sucker for it every time, whether it comes to investments, relationships or jobs.

      You also sound a lot like hiring managers I encounter in debriefs, unable to get off the fence yet also unable to accept the risks of a candidate. I know the amazon leadership principles don’t apply at home, but they often provide some insights. This guy won’t disconfirm his beliefs and digs in his heels (not Right A Lot). He holds you to a higher standard than he holds himself. He is frugal to the exclusion of so many other important things. He cares more about his career and improvement than yours as a couple (lack of Ownership). Red flags every one, for an employee as well as a partner.

      Lastly, I have two daughters, one of whom is a preteen and has an academic tilt to her like you do. When she dates she is likely to encounter such a man. What I would tell her (and you): you deserve to be happy, and it doesn’t sound like this guy will contribute to that; better to move on, and do so quickly.
      Nov 26, 2018
    • Adobe cedar555
      "Be modest enough to live on an academic's salary" 😂 😂 😂
      I dated a guy who lived in his mother's basement during his postdoc. He couldn't even afford an apartment. Your guy won't be able to support himself let alone you and children. The pressure to marry now is a massive red flag. It's all about control.
      Nov 26, 2018
  • Tableau 🔥it
    I’d echo much of what is being said here, however as a women I do have a bit of a different perspective (assuming this is a women OP) about the “take the long view approach”.

    It is a fact: Tech isn’t kind to women having kids. Ageism is a thing that hits women really hard in this industry (look around - see many grandma’s? Many moms with college age kiddos? They are outliers at best). Women with babies are considered cute, even novel, most the time (...afterall, the PR pro’s need some of us around to look like they are legitimately “women friendly”). But when you hit toddler through middle school years- there will be a burn out. Managers who are understanding are rare. Promotions are rarer. You will be forced into a slow-down even if you don’t want it and are working hard to prevent it.

    Your bf demands of you are asinine - I’d leave him - but don’t kid yourself that Tech won’t make the same demands here down the road if/when you choose to have children.

    I once long-distance dated a hard core academic. Towards the end of his PHD he wanted assurances I would support him financially and emotionally during the tenure struggle. He wasn’t particularly confident about me as a financial provider so he bailed. It hurt and sucked. But looking back he did me a big ass favor. I am willing to make career sacrifices for the man I married - and the 2 kids I have - but part of the reason I’m willing is they don’t demand sacrifices. They merely ask I do the best I can to get what I want with the limitations that exist.

    It’s how you ask for the sacrifice that can be a deal breaker here. Personally - he’s definitely asking in a way that makes me think he’s a coward trying to goad you into breaking up with him - so you should.

    Narcissistic cowards are common in academia. They also are more negatively impacting on one’s career then all the sexism in tech would be.

    Good luck. I know this is tough.
    Nov 24, 2018 4
    • Oracle of · Nada
      Makes sense, but "asking in a way that makes me think he's a coward trying to goad you into breaking up" is far fetched. An unwillingness to compromise on given terms isn't the same as wanting it to end. It's what's called a "shit situation" and just needs more ideas and more discussion. Having been in his shoes, I'd wager he just feels locked in and is creatively too overwhelmed by the idea of an institutionalized process to look for other options. Given enough conversation, I think he can be made to see that there are options
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Yahoo Jvtj57c
      Couldn’t agree with this more.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      Given all the bias in tech against women with family commitments, do you feel that a supportive partner is important to make it easier?
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Tableau 🔥it
      @Dje8474 - I’d say a supportive partner is a must. I would’ve lost my mind and career trajectory ages ago dealing with the industry tech-bro’s had I not had my husband.

      My husband and I have similar backgrounds, though of the two of us - I am notably more ambitious. It sounds like your partner is just ambitious as you, which sounds very challenging, but that’s not my biggest concern with what he’s saying. My biggest concern is that he’s not trying to encourage you to be all you can be despite the limitations in your respective scenarios (i.e. you a woman in tech, and him an academic in a tough market).

      He isn’t thinking about how you both could work together to get ahead on your goals (ex: hire help or move near family if you have kids and still want to gun it as much as possible for your career) - but rather what you need to do to make this work for him. He’s starting this conversation with the wrong attitude in my opinion.

      Add kids and I guarantee you will have some epic and painful fights with his “me me me” attitude. Kids quadruple your work on a home front to a scale that’s hard to imagine when single. Also women with pregnancy, breastfeeding, and delivery really pay up the nose for a full 2 years for kids.

      I have worked full time (by choice) in tech throughout both of my pregnancies and deliveries. Pregnancy plus the infant years AND the workplace sexism made those 4 years some of the hardest working years in my life (and I’ve battled cancer in early high school, top-10 undergraduate life, and Stanford EE Quals. Believe me - I know what hard work is. Infants + FT SDE was the hardest.).

      Even though I was promoted between pregnancies - I still went through a lot. I would’ve never survived it and still made some sort of headway (I’ll be it slower once I had the kids) if I hadn’t had my husbands full and unconditional support.

      Good luck. I sincerely hope you find an answer here that opens all the doors you want in life.
      Nov 24, 2018
  • Facebook wrxXv73V8k
    What this thread has really driven home me is why so many women drop out of the workforce.

    So much vitriol (hate might even be applicable) towards and negative character traits assumed of the economically weaker partner who has the temerity to want to pursue a career and asking someone who can realistically work anywhere (since tech is so flexible) to sacrifice a bit of growth to enable pursuit of that dream.

    This thread is anomalous only because it happens that the economically dominant partner is a woman, the vast majority of the time it’s the other way around. It’s a great way to cut through any effects and claims of misogyny and see what people really think.

    As someone who supports equality of opportunity for careers, as a society we have a long, long way to go.
    Nov 25, 2018 15
    • Pandora tIbk87
      No. That's not the real question. 1. You can have children and a career. 2. How do you read no compromises from what she wrote? She literally lists compromises that she suggested to him. And he is unwilling to consider any of them.
      Nov 26, 2018
    • Oracle fatalflaw
      People, no need to fight. It is impossible in this day and age to have two strong personalities in different fields to get married and have a family. Either one has to sacrifice, or they both have to be in the same profession. It's that simple. It would have been less of a problem if OP and the guy were both techies, or if both were doctors, or if both were STEM PhDs.
      Nov 26, 2018
    • Oracle JustDont12
      Well how do you read any compromise from what she wrote?

      It’s all about her career, it’s obvious she “wants a family” but doesn’t want to sacrifice anything for it.

      Anyone can have children, not anyone can bring them up properly.
      Nov 26, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng Am A Bot
      You can have kids, raise them properly and do so with others raising the child. It can be grandparents (she said family would help) or hired help. It takes a lot of self awareness to realize that you don’t want to be a parent, but it takes a lot of resources to replace those services. With high TC (doctor, lawyer, senior engineer) it’s possible, and likely a good choice for someone with OP’s disposition and goals. Sacrifice for children doesn’t always mean giving up a career. It means doing what’s right for them. Sometimes it means taking yourself out of the equation. I know this is true for me: I was raised in a household with a lot of bickering, fighting and backbiting; my wife and I have a peaceful, happy marriage without such things, and one reason our kids are doing well is because I do not talk about when I was a kid so they don’t see my family as model behavior. It’s also occasionally come out at times when I interact with them in certain ways. It pains me terribly to spend less time than I want with my kids, but they get a better upbringing as a result. *That* is a sacrifice, and I would gladly do it again.
      Nov 26, 2018
    • Pandora tIbk87
      @JustDont12 To be clear, you think it's perfectly fine for him to be demanding and not concede on one detail, but her being willing to scale back her career at the start as long as there is a promise that she will get something later on is not a compromise? You think that him getting everything he wants and her conceding everything is the only "compromise"?
      Nov 26, 2018
  • Facebook wrxXv73V8k
    Academia is a brutal industry and has limited geographical flexibility unless you have a Nobel or a Fields Medal or similar.

    Tech is *way* more flexible with remote work jobs anywhere in the world.

    The logical thing is for you to follow his job. I’ve seen couples with the genders reversed where the man in tech moved and sacrificed some career growth in order for the woman in academia to have any sort of career at all.

    This was true even when the academic had a strong postdoc publishing record in top tier journals like Nature and Science. Academia is brutally competitive.

    If you are not willing to do this (which is well within your rights) and he is not willing to pursue opportunities outside of academia, you are a bad match, end it now.

    The probability that this fixes itself (that your SO wins the lottery and finds a job in one of the small number of cities that is top tier for tech) is extremely small.
    Nov 24, 2018 7
    • Facebook wrxXv73V8k
      That is not a realistic plan for an academic unless he is in the top 1% of the field and even then probably not until later in career. You go where the job openings are. Academia is not like tech.

      I would encourage you to talk to an academic community instead of Blind as it seems like almost no one on here knows how that industry works.

      To pick an extreme example, “just get a job at Stanford” is kind of like saying “anyone whose first startup isn’t worth $10B is a failure.”

      That your list is so narrow indicates that career is your first priority above everything else too.

      Career-minded ambitious people sacrifice partners in that pursuit all the time. No one has to be wrong or an asshole for there to be irreconcilable differences.

      The only real question here is which one of you is going to step up to stop the bleeding first.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      West coast includes uwash, Oregon State, UC Davis, UC SC, UC Riverside, UC Irvine, UC la, UC Santa Barbara and San Diego, USC, Colorado University, University of Utah.
      An hour flight from NYC includes Rutgers, UConn, all of Dc and Virginia, etc.
      We keep arguing about this. I'm not expecting him to be in the bay area, only an hour flight away.
      He wants to keep his entire world option open.
      I then asked him, "what are your academic peers doing with their personal lives?"
      He goes like"they are either single, marry people with less ambition or get lucky".
      We don't know what to do.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Facebook wrxXv73V8k
      You know what to do: you break up and then you both find partners better suited to your respective life plans.

      You just have not accepted this yet.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      :(
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Walmart.com / Eng y**2=-1
      Adjunct is a good idea actually. Look at national research labs or industrial research labs like IBM Watson, DeepMind, FAIR. I am sure they would like mathematicians.
      Nov 24, 2018
  • Cisco Sipowicz
    I strongly believe women should always have our own money and not be dependent on anyone else. He is already showing you his selfishness. That bodes very badly for a marriage/partnership, especially if you don’t have a way out once you’ve been out of your career for a few years and have kids to care for.

    As nice as it sounds, love is just not enough. My husband wouldn’t dream of trying to hold me back. I read him your story and he was appalled at your guy’s behavior.

    You can do better. Best of luck.
    Nov 24, 2018 3
    • PeerStreet / Other
      JmnG16wb

      PeerStreet Other

      PRE
      Amazon
      JmnG16wbmore
      But you do realize someone has to compromise their career ambitions at some point right?
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Microsoft MrRobotron
      ^ this... the guy isn’t being selfish either - he’s supposed to throw his PhD just to be with this chick thought, right? That’s just as ridiculous as it is for her to sacrifice her career.

      Some people don’t match because of career ambitions - these two just don’t make sense together. They need to find different people.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Cisco Sipowicz
      The problem seems to be that he is unwilling to compromise his career at all, and has been clear that she is the one who must do all the career sacrificing. That position is absurd and telling as to his either lack of character or commitment to the relationship, IMO.

      I agree they should find other people if he is unwilling to work out a compromise that works for both of them.
      Nov 24, 2018
  • Synack
    Uuft7srcg2

    Synack

    PRE
    Facebook
    Uuft7srcg2more
    He sounds toxic. Sometimes it takes a long time (4.5+ years) for someone’s selfishness and toxicity to show.

    One “compromise” (I say this in quotes because it would actually be you sacrificing) is to work remotely. But if you two are on different pages with kids, this isn’t going to be a happy life. One of you, or both, will be resentful.
    Nov 24, 2018 2
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      We both want kids. But I just don't want to bring them into an environment with long distance parents. I'm little concerned about career growth working remotely. I'm a very ambitious person and need the adrenaline gush of success, pushing new products out, leading teams etc. Not sure if a remote job beyond few years will be sustainable for mental health 😰
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Synack
      Uuft7srcg2

      Synack

      PRE
      Facebook
      Uuft7srcg2more
      Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s like he just wants kids to have them, versus actually caring about being a father to them.

      When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
      Nov 24, 2018
  • Amazon / Eng Am A Bot
    OP - any update?
    Dec 1, 2018 4
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      Hey wanted to thank all of you for the inputs. I did tell him I want to exit the relationship because his constraints are not suitable for my personality and I don't see myself being happy with them, and that this has nothing to do with my love for him, but more to do with my love for myself.
      He's been crying and getting angry and basically calling incessently, since then, and his family have been calling me as well asking me to reconsider. He goes like "I can't live without you." When I say, "please make your life and requirements more suited to me so that I can be happy if you actually cannot live without me", there's more crying. His mother who has health problems calls me and says "we were wishing to welcome you into our home, please don't do this, family is also important, your career will take care of itself, etc etc etc"
      I've not been able to commit a single line of code in the past week, not able to get up from the bed in the morning, thinking of seeing a psychologist. This is getting pretty messy. All I'm doing is being holed up in my apartment and playing my musical instrument non stop to deal with the pain.
      I've finally told him and his family, that we both need some time of no contact. If he doesn't give me that I'm definitely going to have to take an action like block him on WhatsApp. We can talk in a few months. That's where I am now.
      Thanks to all of you to help me state my position and get off the fence. Else I guess I was just enabling his behavior by being with him inspite of his unreasonable demands. This is going to be a messy process.
      As of now I'm just trying to keep my job!
      Dec 2, 2018
    • Cisco Sipowicz
      Although I’m sorry you’re having to go through the tough part, you sound strong and sure about your decision. His mother should not be contacting you as this is none of her business (another warning sign).

      Good for you for doing what’s right for YOU. If he really cannot live without you (so dramatic!), he will find a way to meet you halfway in compromise. Stay strong OP! I promise it will get easier over time.
      Dec 2, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng Am A Bot
      OP, stay strong. Don’t give in to emotional blackmail and manipulation. And thank your lucky stars you’re not marrying him or you’d not just be stuck with his manipulative family too.
      Dec 2, 2018
    • RackWare Dreamlight
      OP, it's hard, but that was the right thing to do. It will get better. Make sure you tell his parents the exact reasons and what sacrifices it would take from him to make it work.
      Dec 2, 2018
  • U.S. Dpt. of Veterans Affairs / Other 😃😄😃meh
    You should break up. Are you willing to sacrifice everything for him? Resentment is amazing recipe for divorce. He is being selfish. There are plenty of academic places in California and west coast. If he can’t make it, he should evaluate his own skills and ambitions. Everyone says they want be Elon Musk. He won’t be able to support a family on academic pay. Blind makes fun of TC less than 100k. Wait until the reality hits that TC for academia is like 60k in most places and less for new faculties. Post docs barely make 30k. Break up. You can do better.
    Either that or ask for a complete remote job.
    Nov 24, 2018 0
  • Microsoft MrRobotron
    He’s not wrong or selfish, and you’re not wrong or selfish.

    Sometimes due to goals people don’t work out - it’s happened to me.

    The reality of this “Sheryl Sandburg - Lean In” shit is that it’s all bunk, you cannot have it all. You can’t have a stunning career, children, the perfect husband, and have all of your dreams come true.

    Sacrifices have to be made... same thing with him. It’s up to you to figure out what you want the most - and then make sacrifices, and learn to live with them.
    Nov 24, 2018 1
    • Google / Product PiGuy
      This. Time for him to grow up and see reality outside the ivory tower
      Nov 24, 2018
  • Apple iPhone Xs
    Age is badly against you for kids. Pregnancy risks increase exponentially once you are past 35. So this may be why your boyfriend wants you to have kids earlier. But you can still insist on just having one kid now. Second kid is a lot easier even if at 40. Ask him to try faculty positions in your preferred areas first. If he is willing to try his best there then that is a good start and commitment
    Nov 24, 2018 3
    • U.S. Dpt. of Veterans Affairs / Other 😃😄😃meh
      Break up and find a dude in SF
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Intel Iffno
      Timing of kids and limiting the risks of having kids over 35 can be planned by freezing your eggs.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Microsoft Blinderzz
      THIS ^ what iPhone XS said. Unfortunately for women and pregnancy, the biological clock is way too real. There sure are options like egg freezing and IVF but it’s a long road with a lot of added physical and emotional stress. It should be THE absolute last resort if you can conceive normally.
      Nov 25, 2018
  • Apple / Eng Schneider
    You know what you want. Do it. The guy is at least honest that he won’t compromise on his career.
    Picture this if you go along with this - in 5 years time, you’d be home alone raising a kid in some college town in India, with your peers being housewives who’ve been married straight out of college. Meanwhile, the things that attracted your partner about you will be gone along with the respect, and he may even find someone in academia instead.

    Don’t be that person, please. You owe this much to yourself.
    Nov 24, 2018 1
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      Nightmare!!
      Nov 24, 2018
  • Google / Eng ironcheff
    Most high powered men prefer to marry women who are a career support for them, women who will handle the home life. Instead you need a man who will either treat your career as equal, or be your own career support. I've seen mostle the latter-- high power women marrying blue collar or stay at home men etc. High power men who want high power women is rare and hard to find.
    Nov 24, 2018 0
  • Apple VFRc27
    All other personal issues aside, I’m curious what kind of twisted, bogus logic makes you think tech isn’t worth it outside of the 3-4 cities you listed... ??
    Nov 24, 2018 8
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      I do AI/ ML and am an applied math PhD dropout myself. So generic software positions might not work for me. :(

      We want children. But to me our mutual happiness is more important. For him, children is more important than me finding a fulfilling career.

      Yes your right- we might have deeper issues.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Apple VFRc27
      Again you think there’s something special about Silicon Valley and New York. Everyone does AI / ML nowadays. You’re limiting your options on the basis of no information at all, just complete, unfounded prejudice.

      Trust me, there’s absolutely nothing special about the bay.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      Curious, where else do you think you would have the career that you have at Apple?
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Apple VFRc27
      This is spawning a bigger conversation which I’m not sure you want to get into. But I’d be happy to answer any specific questions you might have... I worked elsewhere than the Bay Area before coming here, and I’m just about ready to leave. I don’t like the area, and there’s nothing special about this work I’m doing that I didn’t already have but better anywhere else. I came here for the money, and I’m gonna leave because for me there are more important things than that at this point in my life.
      Nov 25, 2018
    • New rjmm27
      Hear hear! There are more places in the world with just as much opportunity in richness and quality of life over market value due to its ranking as a tech city in the US
      Nov 28, 2018
  • Oracle fatalflaw
    Speak to people who are in your career track for 10+ years. You think you've 'arrived' with 350 TC and working at Amazon - you're overestimating your achievements (no, it's not a small achievement, but it's not that big either), and you're underestimating what it would take professionally and emotionally for a Math PhD to get back on track if he moved off his track however temporarily. There will always be resentment and sense of having given up too much in either one or both of you. Both of you are strong personalities and not ready for compromises that are required in a marriage.
    Nov 24, 2018 7
    • Oracle fatalflaw
      I read several other posts adding this point. A math academic cannot "leetcode" and get a job at a university. There isn't continuous attrition like in tech, and new math departments don't start up every time someone gets a new idea. An academic might make it big in top universities in the US, or may have to grab an opportunity that comes up in Israel, or Italy, or Germany, or Kolkata. Working at a community college in Bay Area would be less prestigious than working at Hebrew University or at Trieste, Italy. However good he might be, he cannot guarantee landing a prestigious job in a location of his choice. While as a techie, and later as an executive, you may have a shot at a career anywhere in the world. Do you see yourself as a programmer a few years from now? If not, then there are opportunities in many top positions in the vicinity of prestigious universities around the world. As a lower ranked techie, our views are different, and our exposure is different. If you want to make this work, figure out what opportunities you could take up outside of the cities you have specified. There's more to success than a high TC. Tech hot spots are also very uniform with no other exposure for kids either. My kids feel we live in a dull neighborhood - homes are millions of dollars worth, but all parents in their school are techies and homemakers.
      Nov 25, 2018
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      I'm an applied scientist level 6. Don't want to give more info. Yes I see myself going on this track and maybe (fingers crossed) starting something of my own as well at some point.
      Israel is ok. Italy is not. I get what you are saying, however I feel if I marriage has to happen now, both of us have to set some rules by which we play. Don't know if you noticed my comments, but he's not willing to wait. :/
      Nov 25, 2018
    • Oracle fatalflaw
      Yes, I caught up on several replies. I suppose he thinks that the rules would be only for him and not for you. Put down several of these points from this post on paper and let him process. Do not discuss until he comes back. Ask him whether he thinks he can make it work and if he's committed to this relationship. Besides actions/plans, if he doesn't even want to see your side of things, then it's better to not marry right now. That's your prerogative, regardless of biology, etc. It's unfortunate reality that while tech, like medicine, has offered financial independence to women, but it comes at the cost of sacrificing family unless you find a SO in tech (or medicine). You need to insist that he gets his first gig before you discuss anything more. Right now, he's insecure. Some confidence from a gig and some bank balance would create better conditions to discuss marriage.
      Nov 25, 2018
    • Salesforce
      Dje8474

      Salesforce

      BIO
      I am blind to something and you are too.
      Dje8474more
      OP
      I don't want to generalize but I feel that even with economic leverage if I cannot convince him, I'm not seeing much hope once he actually gets his first happy job. I feel because of the Dynamics of the romance and my future family being at stake I might just cave in to whatever he asks for after a marriage The guy isn't once saying that "your career and your happiness is important to me". He only says, "you need to step down from your high flying tech career. You need to learn to live with less money. I have no choice, I can't assure anything. I can't deal with more emotional uncertainty, I need to get married soon. "
      With this, I obviously want to constrain the location because it's pretty scary otherwise.

      I will put forth these points to him, I hope for the best.
      Nov 25, 2018
    • Oracle fatalflaw
      Sounds like he has a lot of resentment against techies too. Your TC is double of what my peers and I make much later in our careers. You may need to give him confidence that you're there for him despite this (and don't have anyone else in your life?) and that his resentment against tech should be separated from your relationship. If he doesn't budge after that, you should move on.
      Nov 25, 2018
  • Airbnb Pomax
    Sounds like he wants to be making more than you
    Nov 24, 2018 7
    • Pandora tIbk87
      Even if their combined income takes a massive hit, apparently.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Airbnb Pomax
      Better their income take a hit than their ego. (And in their eyes at least, their kids’ wellbeing)
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Pandora tIbk87
      You mean his ego.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Airbnb Pomax
      Right
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Pandora tIbk87
      Sounds like you think her ego doesn't matter
      Nov 24, 2018
  • Amazon / Product
    AmzgGrace

    Amazon Product

    BIO
    15 years in tech
    AmzgGracemore
    This won’t get better after marriage. You’ll resent him for the sacrifices you’ve had to make, and he will always expect you to bend to his will. Better move on now before you have children; you will be more stuck with fewer options after children. There are many fishes in the ocean; choose one who respects your accomplishments and life choices, he’s out there.
    Nov 24, 2018 0
  • Oracle JustDont12
    Forget about the kids and a normal family is my advice. You’ve invested too much of yourself into being a powerful woman, except no one obviously told you about the price tag that comes with it.
    Nov 24, 2018 4
    • Microsoft MrRobotron
      ^ this, there’s always trade offs - you can’t have it all
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng Am A Bot
      I’m not convinced she has to abandon having a family for her job. It depends on how flexible her boyfriend is about when they would have kids. Would he be ok with having a nanny? If so, it could work with a remote tech job in a town where is is on tenure track. If he wants her to abort her career for family, she is likely going to have to find a different guy.
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Microsoft MrRobotron
      He’s invested a decade into his PhD and isn’t willing to sacrifice an academic job for her.

      Totally reasonable.

      She isn’t willing to sacrifice her career for him.

      Totally reasonable.

      They just aren’t compatible 🤷‍♂️
      Nov 24, 2018
    • Oracle JustDont12
      They both don’t want to sacrifice their careers for their prospective family.

      Better not have kids instead of bringing kids up in misery.
      Nov 24, 2018