Defending cultural differences in the name of political correctness

eBay hclD84
Aug 7, 2018 50 Comments

Maybe I'm missing something, and I'd love to hear your opinions on this so I may understand this prevalent view that I cannot fully comprehend.

There are innate differences between American / European culture and laws and those of Asian societies. In order to avoid friction, we need to find ways to coexist in a fair and reasonable manner. 

Indian culture fosters far closer knit relationships and communities than what we see with westerners. From extended family to friendship groups, often enabled by the community and frequency of social activities from religious activities. It's therefore only natural that when considering these relationships exist in a workplace, favouritism will be given to referring friends and family for job openings, and for promotions. It's not fair or ethical, but it is understandable as human nature. However when this disenfranchises others who are not part of the privileged group, why is this defended in the name of political correctness, with those who call out these indescretions labeled racist? 

'Indian mugs' or poop cups... I've only recently learned of this term and I understand it refers to Indians taking mugs into the bathroom to wash their behinds after using the stall in lieu of a bidet. I appreciate the need for cleanliness, but why is it racist to call foul on this practice in a workplace, when this doesn't seem hygienic given they use the communal office cups which we use to drink from?

I understand there are racists and bigots out there. But I am really scratching my head at the ironically named 'white knights' from Caucasian communities that seem to defend these cultural practices instead of calling foul or trying to provide a resolution. It seems its almost fashionable nowadays to behave in this manner.

Customary offering: 34yrs, TC 382K

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TOP 50 Comments
  • Google / Mktg QuadLovin
    Yikes. Your colleagues are using your cawfee mug to wash their derrière. I guess it gives new meaning to the whole coffee cleanse phenomenon. How about you write your name on yours and claim it for ‘Murica, add a disclaimer, please don’t poo with my brew :)
    Aug 8, 2018 0
  • New / Eng
    detekoi

    New Eng

    PRE
    Kaiser Permanente
    detekoimore
    Install washlets. Shitting in America is so filthy TP only is not acceptable
    Aug 8, 2018 2
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      I agree. However in the interim wet wipes surely serve as a more acceptable alternative to coffee mugs.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • New / Eng
      detekoi

      New Eng

      PRE
      Kaiser Permanente
      detekoimore
      I would do this with my own cup and I’m not even Indian. I now work in an office with single occupancy restrooms where I can wet the TP directly in the sink.
      Aug 8, 2018
  • Glooko / Other nfg
    I agree with your well articulated views but the simple answer is that white people have a long history of killing, enslaving, exploiting people of other races (skin colors), whereas other ethnic groups generally have only done similar atrocities to ethnicities similar to themselves. I'm not saying it's right that this is the case but that's just the way it is right now.
    Aug 8, 2018 5
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      I understand this view. That said, I find it hard to 'take it on the chin' for want of a better expression due to the indiscretions of the generations before me. I don't believe it's the right way for us as a educated, progressive society to behave or accept as the status quo.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • Comcast keysersözæ
      Not true at all. Maybe that you're aware of but some more research is needed on your behalf.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • Nvidia zVEC05
      That view point is totally ignorant of history. There aren’t any cultures that have not expanded at one time or another through use of force. It’s just a matter of how far back in history you go.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • Glooko / Other nfg
      Not disagreeing with y'all, but it is what it is, at least on the side of America that I see most
      Aug 8, 2018
    • PeerStreet / Other
      6’6 Indian

      PeerStreet Other

      PRE
      Amazon
      6’6 Indianmore
      Yes and before that Muslims raped and pillaged christians/westerners in the name of spreading Islam - so is that right?

      What about the rape of Nanking and the countless atrocities committed by the Japanese?

      Crazy how out of touch you are with reality.
      Aug 9, 2018
  • Microsoft Qa0277
    You misunderstand the basic usage of the “poop cup”

    The whole second part of your comment is ignorant of their culture, which leads to misunderstanding.

    No one drinks from the “poop cup”, it’s a designated vessel (cup, bottle, ...) used solely for toilet time.

    And they don’t use it to wash their hands, they use it to wash their butts or fronts after they pee or poop. Instead of a bidet (which is rare in NA) they can wet paper towel or toilet paper and wipe with it.
    Aug 8, 2018 3
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      When using communal office mugs, these are drunk from by employees. Ignorance aside, focusing purely on the known, communal mugs should surely not be used in this manner.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • Microsoft Qa0277
      First, No one should take a drinking mug to the bathroom regardless of what they do with it.

      Second, why do you guys have communal bugs at eBay? Can’t you afford your own mugs?
      Aug 8, 2018
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      I agree and hence my point. Our office provides communal, branded mugs and I appreciate this especially when we have outside guests.
      Aug 8, 2018
  • PeerStreet / Other
    6’6 Indian

    PeerStreet Other

    PRE
    Amazon
    6’6 Indianmore
    i am indian and let me tell you, being indian is actually a great thing. we have beautiful people and we have ugly people. just like any race. I for 1 am a great person, have great friends, and i take care of every one that is in my life and i am glad to do it, and for that i have people that love me around me. also, indian parents are one of the best parents you can have. sometimes they can be really strict, but they will take care of you no matter what, and they will buy you what ever it is that you need. as long as your not a selfish ****head. Also, we all have great jobs, lots of money and a family that we all love and take care off. suck my d!ck op suck my d!ck
    Aug 9, 2018 2
    • Dell Rorschach
      +1 brother
      Aug 9, 2018
    • New / Eng 🌲50
      The moment you realize you are that ****head you reference
      Aug 9, 2018
  • Illumina User7493
    You sound racist. This whole poop cup thing is not common at all amongst Indians. If you found someone who does this, putting it on all Indians makes you racist. Also, your two topics are completely unrelated, except that they help you argue against a race of people.
    Aug 8, 2018 8
    • Illumina User7493
      Your first 2 paragraphs clearly apply to all Indians. Your 3rd paragraph could be interpreted as applying to all Indians. If you didn’t mean for that, you should have specified such. You aren’t complementing anyone here. When you say negative things about an entire race/culture, that sounds racist. I didn’t say you are racist. But you sure are bad at not sounding racist.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • Illumina User7493
      It would be totally fine to say you found a group that hired based on race or culture, and to complain about that. It would even be fine to say you’ve seen this a few times with Indians. But nowhere in your writing did you indicate you didn’t think this applies to all Indians. It’s hard not to come to the conclusion that you meant all Indians. You even spent some time describing that you see this as part of their culture and identity.

      Same with the poop cups. You didn’t say you found a hand full of people. You wrote as if you thought all or most Indians do this. I’m married to an Indian, with a large extended Indian family and many indian friends. I frankly have never even heard of this until you wrote it.

      So if you fixed the appearance of painting with a broad brush, it would be fine to bring this up. But the way you wrote it, you sound racist.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      I understand your point and thank you for clarifying. My issue is that most people tend to jump to the assumption of racist (you assumed I meant all Indians, instead, these were merely specific examples from my own empirical experience). By automatically going on the offensive instead of assuming good intent, you create a barrier that has led us to where we are today; people are afraid to raise any issues that could be linked to cultural differences for fear of being labeled racist and the fear of the alienation, abuse or even career implications that could come from it. What we are left with is a fear culture, where few speak freely, and others are given a free pass to abuse the position. Its human nature to take an advantage if its given, and without incentive to change or have your actions called out, why change? This is my issue. You could simply take my comment as it is, and focus on the points I raise and not the fact they are linked to a specific race in the context of the example. The issue is to me, more detrimental, important and beneficial to all to fix than simply crying 'racist!' whenever you get the opportunity.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • Illumina Animay
      I did take your comment as it is. It is general rather than specific. That’s the language of what you wrote. Maybe you’re bad at English and grammar and meant something different? I can’t read things you didn’t write.

      This country has always had a glaring problem with racism. It’s engrained in our society. It has destroyed countless lives. So when people hear things that sound racist, there is push back, as there should be. I hope you understand that. If you don’t, you should educate yourself on race in America.

      Here’s an analogy. There are sprinklers in buildings that go off to put out fires. When one is triggered and floods a building, no one says we have a sprinkler problem flooding our buildings. It may be true that unnecessary water damage may happen from time to time. But those sprinklers are necessary in case of fire.
      Aug 9, 2018
    • Illumina Animay
      Also, I wouldn’t be afraid at all to complain about unfair hiring practices if a group hired only one ethnically. I would also complain about the hygiene issue. Not sure why you find that difficult? Work on how you frame it. (The way you wrote it sounds racist.) Since you seem to have troubles with this, just don’t even say the word “Indian” when you talk to HR.
      Aug 9, 2018
  • Microsoft gfba68
    I've never seen that defended in the name of political correctness. It seems likely you've misunderstood their intentions.
    Aug 8, 2018 8
    • Microsoft gfba68
      None of those examples actually defend it, though. Like I said, you misunderstood their arguments.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      Perhaps defend is the wrong word, however instead of focusing on the issue at hand (which addressing would be more meaningful and beneficial to all) the current norm seems to be to cry 'racist' whenever an issue is linked to a specific race. Each race has its own cultural differences, some of which are alien and in some cases offensive or incompatible with our way of thinking. We can adapt to an extent, but should all issues be quietly ignored simply for fear of not wanting to be labeled a racist by this quick to brandish the term? Is that helpful or progressive?
      Aug 8, 2018
    • Microsoft gfba68
      Why would focusing on the issue at hand be more meaningful and beneficial? I don't necessarily agree.
      Aug 9, 2018
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      Because solving issues that impact people tends to be a better use of time than simply parroting racist.
      Aug 9, 2018
    • Microsoft gfba68
      You don't think they're addressing issues that impact people? Why not?
      Aug 9, 2018
  • New / Mgmt yusy56
    OP I appreciate your perspective. As a techie and a problem solver, it is important to call out a problem if you want to solve it. You have quoted 2-3 instances of differences. Obviously there are tons of differences. I am an Indian, I don't use poop cups after I came here. I don't like favouritism at work. Some adapt the new culture and other expect others to change.

    1/ Poop cups solve is to have water jets, which is also being done in India

    2/ Fire people who display favouritism of any kind on basis of race, ethnicity, color, orientation,etc

    Also the fact is not everyone from different cultures will assimilate and not all differences might have a common ground.

    I wish we have true international communities that emulate international values and let people opt in to these things.
    Aug 8, 2018 3
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      Brilliant post. Someone who can see issues for what they are; problems to resolve for the good of all and not an automatic witch hunt or racist tirade. I wish there were more like you, and if I could like this post twice I would.
      Aug 8, 2018
    • New / Mgmt yusy56
      OP I am waiting for a truly international country. Could be a city build ground up that serves a melting pot in real sense. This cultural tension is unscalable. It is stupid to have so many hoops in immigration policies as well. Its adds undue tension and strain on these communities. How about a start-up seeding some land and building a open international city with a new age constitution.?
      Aug 8, 2018
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      Wonderful idea, and if I am to truly believe the TC and net worth figures I see on here, we might be the only group collectively able of procuring the land and providing the investment to make this happen 😁
      Aug 8, 2018
  • New / Eng 🌲50
    Totally agree. A faction on the Left feel good about themselves by calling others racist. It’s narcissism, not virtue.
    Aug 8, 2018 0
  • Apple magikarp16
    I appreciate your concern. As an Indian, I have never taken part in either. And I promise you, I wont ever.

    For the first part, I find it quite natural. Not because Indians love Indians. Most Indians hate most other Indians to be honest and blame them for something or the other. But it is natural because the pool size of Indian engineers is enormous. I find it frustrating at times to be honest. You would not believe how many Indian engineers I know and how many know me. Everyone from my school to college life has had an engineering education. Even in the US, during my masters, there were almost zero non-Indians studying engineering with me. This is especially true for fields that allow H1B holders to work. For example, you won't see many Indians in defense related engineering jobs.
    When someone shares a job opening with us, we naturally think of the 200 engineers we know and pick a few of them for referring. And most of them Indians. This seems easy money in form of referal bonuses and all.
    I get tens of resumes and messages from people I kinda know for referal requests. All are Indians. I don't refer most. If you are interested in a job and you feel you don't know enough people in the industry, feel free to send me your resume as well. I will try and see what to do.
    For Indians, it is also a matter of desperation. If you stay unemployed for more than a few months, you can get deported and your life will change again. So, people share and email resumes like crazy.
    Hope, I have made some clarifications.
    Also, I have never seen anyone use a mug at work. Very difficult to imagine. But I do maintain that using water is more hygienic especially because culturally we use our hands a lot while eating. As unlikely as it sounds, I feel my hands (esp. the finger tips and even after washing with soap) stink from using a toilet paper, maybe because I rub too hard or push it around too much, and don't at all if gently clean with water. I just don't want to carry that feeling with me out of the bathroom. So, I wash my hands like 10 times.
    Aug 8, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Other
    pOnOs

    Amazon Other

    PRE
    Amazon
    BIO
    Why the fuck do you think I would put any personal information in an anonymous chat app? You seem really confused, @blind
    pOnOsmore
    I don't care about the political aspect of this so much. Whatever side you are, you're going to insult the other side without understanding or listening.

    I'm always curious about the logistics. When I worked in an Amazon warehouse there were little flower watering pots collecting dust on the floor in the corner of the biggest stall in each bathroom. I never thought anything of them until someone was ranting about immigrants and said they use these long-necked watering cans as a bidet after they shit.

    I am a user of baby wipes. If there aren't wipes available, I try to wet a paper towel and use that as my final wipe. I believe that some kind of wetness is far superior to dry paper. This isn't just used in Africa and India but also in a lot of eastern European countries like Poland and parts of Hungary, according to some travel blogs I've read.

    So how do you use the cup/pot? Do you pour it down your back and let it wash over the butthole? Does it make contact with your anus region at all?
    Aug 8, 2018 0
  • Dell Rorschach
    Question: as an Indian I don’t freak out if I see toilet paper but why do Americans lose their mind if they see the so called “poop cup”? Why does it both you so much?
    Aug 8, 2018 2
    • New / Eng 🌲50
      Because using poop cups in a western toilet is insanely unhygienic
      Aug 8, 2018
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      I have no issue with poop cups. I do however take issue to communal coffee mugs being used as poop cups. This really should be obvious if you read the post. Please read the post fully in future to avoid needless clarification :)
      Aug 8, 2018
  • Cisco bingopa
    The real question is: Are you 34 yrs old or a software engineer with 34 yrs experience?
    Aug 8, 2018 1
    • eBay hclD84
      OP
      34yr old and a marketer not an engineer.
      Aug 8, 2018
  • Credit Karma EllisDee25
    Not sure if “tight knit” communities is really that much of a cultural difference since poor native-born Americans as well as first generation immigrants from almost any region are more community-focused by necessity. I think the structure of the US economy is just more socially disruptive and alienating so neighborhoods and apartments are based on just income level, activities are homogenized chains, so outside of mutual interest hobbies there is little organic community here. Probably true of urban areas in India or Brazil or Mexico or most other places too.
    Aug 9, 2018 0
  • Coupang / Eng
    aqtP17

    Coupang Eng

    PRE
    Google, Sabre Corporation, EMC Corporation
    BIO
    The one hundred five characters that best describe me are most definitely accurate yet better left unsaid
    aqtP17more
    The bathrooms in the Dubai airport and malls have a small hose on the side with a squeeze nozzle. It's just for cleaning better. If it's a problem at your office, I suggest they look into ways of adding that or the Japanese/Korean bidet ad ons one could get.
    Aug 8, 2018 0
  • New / Eng
    detekoi

    New Eng

    PRE
    Kaiser Permanente
    detekoimore
    Whiteness is moral panic over foreigners having clean asses
    Aug 8, 2018 0

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