Any updated information regarding the CA fair employment investigation happening?
Why won’t riot provide employee pay data?
Anyone know what’s going on or have updated info?
Seems like riots been in hot water since the walkouts.
- Amazon B2VZFfSeems like this issue has been going on for at least a year or more at Riot: https://kotaku.com/the-state-of-california-is-investigating-riot-games-for-1835463823
- Like when this happened at Google and they found out they were underpaying men?
- When there is one instance of men being underpaid, then yes, let's look at it and correct the pay. Why are you upset about people at riot trying to do the same?
There is a difference between systemic issues and something happening once or twice. This is basic stats, why is it so difficult to understand?
https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/gender-equality/women-in-the-workplace-2018Jun 15 2
- Amazon minutemanRiots culture issues are pretty obvious. You watch any behind the scenes dev video where they go into how there doing say a champ rework and it's literally machismo bro culture everywhere
- Pay is negotiated and accepted by both parties at time of offer. Just because females at a company make less does not mean they are actively discriminated against in a wrongful way.
There is far less females in tech, a smaller talent pool, and females negotiate less and apply to roles far more conservatively.
I don't think these arguments about pay at the end of the cycle make sense. We are talking about the wrong problem. The real problems are likely 1) pipeline problems -- total count of technical females 2) social conditioning and 3) possibly biology (females tend to have higher value on relationships and be afraid to take social risks such as asking for a raise)
So yes, bullies exist, but there is also responsibility on the part of whoever is underpaid or discriminated against to take smart and aggressive action. Bottom line employees have no intrinsic right to a salary or certain numbers -- it's a leverage game. If you got the goods and are in demand you have leverage and can negotiate a higher offer. If you don't or don't have the courage to negotiate then that is on you.
- if you negotiate pay as a female the same way you’d negotiate as a male, more often than not the offer gets rescinded because “she’s aggressive”. One company rescinded my offer when I pushed for more. The reason I asked for more is because classmate got and I got offers the same time for the same level, he was offered significantly higher pay so I knew they could go up. I was also better qualified than him.
It’s not as easy as saying “negotiate harder”Jun 14 4
- Agree. They accepted their compensation, why they complain now? What is wrong with the ppl. How do they compare performans vs salary? Have seen some seniors women engineers who do almost zero contributions to the code base during the last Two years, just one liners config changes. Same can say about males as well. My point is that we need to count performance, not gender. Wake up, ppl.
- Twitter how do you 'count performance' free of bias? How do you make sure people get the same opportunities to perform?
Counsyl, research shows that women now negotiate as much as men do - it just doesn't work as well for them.
On average, you expect pay to be similar - people aren't complaining about one or two individuals - on average, for the same level, people should be paid the same.
- Discrimination, really; new job. Come early every day. One day I am late, I get pulled into the office by the VP to talk about being "consistent".
Yet, the white guy comes in late, is on his phone everyday all day, VP passes him by; doesn't say shit.
Everyday I say to myself, this is for experience.
Let's not talk about me leaving early. One of the Admins basically tried to make it seem like I left and didn't do any work
- You're the new guy. You've earned nothing. Although it's cute you think your platinum card is a status symbol :) shows where your priorities are. "I pay a $600 annual fee, I deserve special treatment! And it means I am wealthy! Why won't you respect me?! Waaaah"
Thanks for proving us right!
- LOL. Yeah, I was undecided before but you seem like a grade-A entitled c*nt. No wonder your boss doesnt like you.
Have fun with your lack of experience and your fancy credit card. The rest of us will do the same without declaring our false superiority.
I've had an amex black card for 6 years. Does that mean you'll bring me drinks, or is that still below your platinum ass?
- ForeFlight beebooperTech can be bad for sure, but most adult companies have some level of control. Startup tech can definitely worse than average. Game companies even more so.
At some point there needs to be some adults in the room to put a stop to shit like this. Not by age but by understanding that they are running a business. And not a frat house.
If you read anything about game company culture they tend to be on the frat house side of things.
- It depends wholly on the company. You have to realize that nearly all AAA development goes through the larger studios, and they are run as such. Which isnt necessarily a good thing, but it's certainly better than Riot.
At GE, theres plenty of implicit bias against women. It's hard to get rid of when your company is run by 60 year old white dudes that grew up around that. Companies like EA, Bioware, etc. suffer from those same problems. Better than Riot, but not necessarily good.
- Women don’t get paid less because they do less work. They get paid less because the work they do, even if it’s objectively on par with their peers, is often judged more harshly and perceived less valuable. You have to do far better than an average male to be perceived as doing adequate work.
That’s why women in the financial industry, specifically investment banking actually have better performance than men-the ones that stick around in a sexist industry are far better than their male peers and this time there’s real $$$signs to track that. And even with that tangible data, you don’t see hedge funds lining up to hire women.
- Women are paid less over their entire career because: they have access to fewer opportunities, take longer to get promoted, have access to fewer mentors and sponsors, etc etc. All of this has to do with people seeing women as less competent.
Why are women not hired as much as men? They're seen as less competent.
I'm not sure what you think you're proving.
- Capital One zolk13I sympathize with victims of sexual harassment.
I believe everyone needs to be protected from that kind of stuff.
Gender discrimination in pay I can't sympathize with. Companies will tend to low-ball regardless of gender. The burden to negotiate and procure what you deserve rests on the individual. I believe there are females out there who are pros at negotiation and getting Royal compensation.
Same found in these reports by McKinsey: https://womenintheworkplace.com/2016
https://womenintheworkplace.com <-- this goes to their 2018 one
- I am yet to see a study that shows we pay women less for the same job description, experience, hours put. A single serious study, not an opinion.
- Men and women make the same amount right after college https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harvard-prof-takes-down-gender-wage-gap-myth
- 58% of college grads are female https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/education/cb10-55.html
- Time worked in ice land and job fatalities are relevant how?
Working fewer hours relevant hour? You do understand the concept of equal pay for equal work right?
If construction and plumbing were high paying jobs, that women were systematically kept out of, sure.
In terms of women picking easier jobs, that is literally one woman.
It's not surprising men and women make the same right after college - the wage gap is over their life times, as women miss out on promotions and advances due to systematic bias.
If 58% of college grads are women, why aren't 58% of college educated jobs held by women?Jun 19 0
- And lol at your micdrop. I give you the largest study of gender in the workplace in the us, and you give me a bunch of one off articles, not even the actual research.
While you continue to cycle through usernames, might be worth reading up on what constitutes research, what the actual wage gap is about, and thinking about why you feel threatened by the concept of more women in the workplace.Jun 19 0
- New / Strategy MWSt70A few thoughts:
1) I believe that while there are probably some issues, most of this outrage overblown and driven by the press that enjoys demonizing tech and gaming companies (especially the latter)
2) How does pay data indicate discrimination? I think it’s generally well understood that men are more willing to negotiate. If this means that men are paid a little higher on average for the same position, is this discrimination?
- OceanX / Eng Tuqx04Let me guess, this should be gender discrimination against women right?
Have anyone heard abt someone complaining abt gender against men.
What did they do at riot against a gender... What is this discrimination exactly in this case, anyone from riot?
- KeepTruckin dyLo25I get where you are coming from but riot is particularly bad. https://kotaku.com/inside-the-culture-of-sexism-at-riot-games-1828165483
- First time they’ve put out a press release saying they are investigating a company instead of a press release stating a court judgement or settlement. The last several dozen releases on their site are not of this sort. It’s more than a little odd.
We’ve been dragged through the mud in the press. People here have been obsessive with pay fairness for years, I seriously doubt there’s a systemic pay issue. But, our external reputation is bad on this topic due to the press coverage.
I personally think this is political theater since Californians are demanding that the government get tough on sexual harassment and pay disparity and we are a convenient target with all of our bad press. We also don’t have a large legal department and are ‘nice’. I’m sure the individual investigators think they are doing the right thing going after us, but I’m a lot more cynical about government now and it feels really unfair.
- In that case, there should be no reason to hold back salary data.
Look, I get the media going after the company you work for (hello, I work at FB). But from what I've read, it doesn't seem like the system worked for sexual harassment - things had to go pretty far, and become public for a lot of the action to happen. And with the sexual harassment stuff, the articles describing the culture at riot seemed pretty bad. Sexual harassment happens at every company, and will hopefully also remain low enough to seem anecdotal. The pattern isn't that it happens, the pattern is what happens afterwards and how it's handled. Doesn't seem like that second bit was done well.
If there isn't an issue at riot, CA can't invent pay data to show there is. If there is an issue, then things get fixed. I don't see what the loss here is, besides the fact that people suddenly know who riot is.
- Eh, I think I'll wait to see what they say. I assume that the department of labor has statisticians since half of what they do is analyse the labor market.
Why would they release dialogue? to an internal whistleblower? That seems strange. Also, if the internal person was whistleblowing, then surely it means they saw a problem too?
- They did a press release for Google too. Riot isn't unique in this whole process.
I mean, it's a good place to work, unless you're a woman? Nevermind the lawsuit, reading the accounts of women who've worked there makes it sound pretty grim. Why don't you believe that their experience doesn't match yours?
Also, complaining directly to the investigator makes sense - riot has a vested interest in making sure no one complains. That sounds pretty standard. What's odd is that the person who posted the docs didn't get fired for posting confidential info - unless it was condoned by the company.
- The women who have had the bad experience have described it that way. Internal surveys are unlikely to show this because such a small minority are women.
If people are trying to raise this, I'm tempted to believe them, especially if the treatment they're receiving is related to their gender. When you've spoken to your women colleagues, how do they feel?
And, when there are multiple 'anecdotes' from a very small population, at what point do you consider them representative? Does every woman have to be sexually harassed for it to be a problem?
- PayPal retrogrademoreFriend of mine has an interview scheduled with Riot but they’re stalling - anyone know if hiring is frozen with this news?
- Consulting companies in early 2000s used to just put everyone's pay right from CXO to the intern on internal websites and anyone could check everyone else's pay. Never had a problem with gender discrimination. On the other hand, people started working harder cause now there was more clarity on what it takes to get a certain amount of TC.
Why do companies don't do that anymore.
- Few companies are still doing it