Discrimination at Riot Investigation by CA?

Uber pppo
Jun 14 185 Comments

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-riot-games-gender-discrimination-investigation-20190612-story.html

Any updated information regarding the CA fair employment investigation happening?

Why won’t riot provide employee pay data?

Anyone know what’s going on or have updated info?

Seems like riots been in hot water since the walkouts.

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TOP 185 Comments
  • New / Project karawaii
    Goddamn, who cares?
    Jun 14 50
  • Apple lithiumbat
    If people don’t want to work there then leave
    Jun 14 12
    • Square / Eng SQ
      Ignorant twat
      Jun 14
    • Apple / Eng 🐒codemonk
      They are taking some bigger risks than “just quitting” (trying to force some internal culture change). Hey fellow apple guy, why don’t you just leave whenever yourself feel uncomfortable at work instead of reading Blind? 🤣 I guess quitting should be simple for u.
      Jun 14
    • Twitter Dfkns
      Agree. Why stay at the company if u I do not agree with its policies? Company is a private business, do not like it, do jot use it, do not work there. Simple as it is.
      Jun 14
    • New / IT ComTеch
      Square Eng knows what's up. That's my situation to a T.
      Jun 20
    • Square / Eng SQ
      I hope it gets better for you, ComTech!
      Jun 20
  • Amazon B2VZFf
    Seems like this issue has been going on for at least a year or more at Riot: https://kotaku.com/the-state-of-california-is-investigating-riot-games-for-1835463823
    Jun 14 12
    • New / Eng
      TechLeed

      New Eng

      PRE
      Amazon
      TechLeedmore
      Well shit, guess Kotaku should be taken as a source of absolute truth, all journalist outlets should be trusted immediately upon publishing partial information.
      Jun 14
    • OpenDoor nzXR80
      Let me guess: fAKE nEwS

      Sorry folks, too much gas, the canary is dead. IBM will let us know when we can form opinions. Looks like New/Eng is also on the case.
      Jun 14
    • New / Eng
      TechLeed

      New Eng

      PRE
      Amazon
      TechLeedmore
      It's in your own best interest to not blindly trust everyone. Feel free to be the uninformed dumb guy though
      Jun 14
    • OpenDoor nzXR80
      That's what I'm advocating: blind trust. Speaking of which, let us all know when we're ready to start forming opinions, random stranger.
      Jun 14
    • Intel qQuW15
      For people who don't have Blind trust, why are you using this app? ; - )
      Jun 15
  • Nordstrom Nepotism
    Like when this happened at Google and they found out they were underpaying men?
    Jun 14 11
    • Microsoft SWsR51
      So when men are underpaid you consider extenuating circumstances. When women are underpaid it’s discrimination. Got it.
      Jun 15
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      When there is one instance of men being underpaid, then yes, let's look at it and correct the pay. Why are you upset about people at riot trying to do the same?

      There is a difference between systemic issues and something happening once or twice. This is basic stats, why is it so difficult to understand?

      https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/gender-equality/women-in-the-workplace-2018
      Jun 15
    • Facebook lolwutm8
      It's not difficult to understand. They just grew up being promised an obedient wife who will clean and raise their kids and now they're mad they have share more of the workspace. When you're used to privilege equality feels like oppression.
      Jun 15
    • Expedia robot.mofo
      That last sentence is spot on
      Jun 16
    • Nordstrom Nepotism
      lol so many professional victims who think they deserve the same while working less.
      Jun 17
  • Amazon minuteman
    Riots culture issues are pretty obvious. You watch any behind the scenes dev video where they go into how there doing say a champ rework and it's literally machismo bro culture everywhere
    Jun 14 6
    • Netflix 1x2
      I always lough like crazy when hearing 'macho', 'bro' and developer in same sentence.
      Jun 14
    • New ulpC55
      Brogrammer
      Jun 14
    • GE / Eng WhosyDaddy
      And you work at netflix? Lol, I would have guessed you weren't even in tech. There are plenty of macho brogrammers. Shit, just look at the dick measuring contest that is blind.
      Jun 14
    • Twitter techmgr
      My e-penis (TC) is bigger than yours.
      Jun 14
    • GE / Eng WhosyDaddy
      @ulpC55 You've obviously never seen the MASSIVE GIRTH of my RSPs. Or the THROBBING DESIRE of my bonus plan. You cant possibly understand the ABSOLUTELY ORGASMIC LENGTHs that I would go to to support your company.
      Jun 14
  • Counsyl IBBs07
    Pay is negotiated and accepted by both parties at time of offer. Just because females at a company make less does not mean they are actively discriminated against in a wrongful way.

    There is far less females in tech, a smaller talent pool, and females negotiate less and apply to roles far more conservatively.

    I don't think these arguments about pay at the end of the cycle make sense. We are talking about the wrong problem. The real problems are likely 1) pipeline problems -- total count of technical females 2) social conditioning and 3) possibly biology (females tend to have higher value on relationships and be afraid to take social risks such as asking for a raise)

    So yes, bullies exist, but there is also responsibility on the part of whoever is underpaid or discriminated against to take smart and aggressive action. Bottom line employees have no intrinsic right to a salary or certain numbers -- it's a leverage game. If you got the goods and are in demand you have leverage and can negotiate a higher offer. If you don't or don't have the courage to negotiate then that is on you.
    Jun 14 4
    • Counsyl IBBs07
      To be clear I don't condone discrimination or riot (whatever they may have done) I just dislike this surface level discussion of pay inequality.
      Jun 14
    • Expedia heresJonny
      if you negotiate pay as a female the same way you’d negotiate as a male, more often than not the offer gets rescinded because “she’s aggressive”. One company rescinded my offer when I pushed for more. The reason I asked for more is because classmate got and I got offers the same time for the same level, he was offered significantly higher pay so I knew they could go up. I was also better qualified than him.

      It’s not as easy as saying “negotiate harder”
      Jun 14
    • Twitter Dfkns
      Agree. They accepted their compensation, why they complain now? What is wrong with the ppl. How do they compare performans vs salary? Have seen some seniors women engineers who do almost zero contributions to the code base during the last Two years, just one liners config changes. Same can say about males as well. My point is that we need to count performance, not gender. Wake up, ppl.
      Jun 14
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Twitter how do you 'count performance' free of bias? How do you make sure people get the same opportunities to perform?

      Counsyl, research shows that women now negotiate as much as men do - it just doesn't work as well for them.
      On average, you expect pay to be similar - people aren't complaining about one or two individuals - on average, for the same level, people should be paid the same.
      Jun 14
  • New / IT
    rcafelanrd

    New IT

    BIO
    JR Sys Admin
    rcafelanrdmore
    Discrimination, really; new job. Come early every day. One day I am late, I get pulled into the office by the VP to talk about being "consistent".

    Yet, the white guy comes in late, is on his phone everyday all day, VP passes him by; doesn't say shit.

    Everyday I say to myself, this is for experience.

    Let's not talk about me leaving early. One of the Admins basically tried to make it seem like I left and didn't do any work
    Jun 14 6
    • Nordstrom Nepotism
      OP Sounds like a typical racist playing the victim card.

      New. Inexperienced. Expects instant equity and to be treated like well established, proven employees.

      Get off the entitlement and racism, kid. Earn your place like the rest of us.
      Jun 14
    • New / IT
      rcafelanrd

      New IT

      BIO
      JR Sys Admin
      rcafelanrdmore
      Already earned my place. Thats facts. Unfortunately, your the type of prick I am dealing with. Looks like I know exactly what to do in the next 9 months.

      But I tell you what, I'll visit Nordstrom with my Platinum card, to hopefully save your company. I'm optimistic.
      Jun 14
    • Nordstrom Nepotism
      You're the new guy. You've earned nothing. Although it's cute you think your platinum card is a status symbol :) shows where your priorities are. "I pay a $600 annual fee, I deserve special treatment! And it means I am wealthy! Why won't you respect me?! Waaaah"

      Thanks for proving us right!
      Jun 14
    • GE / Eng WhosyDaddy
      LOL. Yeah, I was undecided before but you seem like a grade-A entitled c*nt. No wonder your boss doesnt like you.

      Have fun with your lack of experience and your fancy credit card. The rest of us will do the same without declaring our false superiority.

      I've had an amex black card for 6 years. Does that mean you'll bring me drinks, or is that still below your platinum ass?
      Jun 14
    • Nordstrom Nepotism
      My boss doesn't respect my platinum card!
      Jun 14
  • Microsoft HinzGJ
    Sad story. How common is this in gaming??
    Jun 14 6
    • ForeFlight beebooper
      Tech can be bad for sure, but most adult companies have some level of control. Startup tech can definitely worse than average. Game companies even more so.

      At some point there needs to be some adults in the room to put a stop to shit like this. Not by age but by understanding that they are running a business. And not a frat house.

      If you read anything about game company culture they tend to be on the frat house side of things.
      Jun 14
    • GE / Eng WhosyDaddy
      It depends wholly on the company. You have to realize that nearly all AAA development goes through the larger studios, and they are run as such. Which isnt necessarily a good thing, but it's certainly better than Riot.

      At GE, theres plenty of implicit bias against women. It's hard to get rid of when your company is run by 60 year old white dudes that grew up around that. Companies like EA, Bioware, etc. suffer from those same problems. Better than Riot, but not necessarily good.
      Jun 14
    • ForeFlight Hightown
      Right. Larger places => more adults. But the good ol boy network is definitely a thing. (Been there for sure)
      Jun 14
    • New / Eng g3is8brn3s
      It's pretty bad in the video game industry, probably worse than median. See:
      https://youtu.be/G9ZdU1RQjmc
      https://youtu.be/2TSB5YQqDiY
      Jun 14
    • Square riJbJiid7
      Riot games have the most toxic, cancerous communities so can’t say I’m surprise.
      Jun 14
  • Wrong is wrong. If there getting paid less, then they should sue
    Jun 14 3
    • Snapchat gqkO66
      If women programmers did the exact same work as men, but were for some reason paid less, I would start a consulting company and fill it with only women and make billions of dollars. Maybe more is going on here.
      Jun 14
    • Expedia heresJonny
      Women don’t get paid less because they do less work. They get paid less because the work they do, even if it’s objectively on par with their peers, is often judged more harshly and perceived less valuable. You have to do far better than an average male to be perceived as doing adequate work.

      That’s why women in the financial industry, specifically investment banking actually have better performance than men-the ones that stick around in a sexist industry are far better than their male peers and this time there’s real $$$signs to track that. And even with that tangible data, you don’t see hedge funds lining up to hire women.
      Jun 14
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Women are paid less over their entire career because: they have access to fewer opportunities, take longer to get promoted, have access to fewer mentors and sponsors, etc etc. All of this has to do with people seeing women as less competent.
      Why are women not hired as much as men? They're seen as less competent.
      I'm not sure what you think you're proving.
      Jun 14
  • Capital One zolk13
    I sympathize with victims of sexual harassment.
    I believe everyone needs to be protected from that kind of stuff.

    Gender discrimination in pay I can't sympathize with. Companies will tend to low-ball regardless of gender. The burden to negotiate and procure what you deserve rests on the individual. I believe there are females out there who are pros at negotiation and getting Royal compensation.
    Jun 14 10
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Fired for looking at the actual study results? What does that even mean? Is this some conspiracy theory?
      Jun 15
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Jun 15
    • Netflix / Eng oliveru
      No just basic facts everyone knows Google's Ideological Echo Chamber https://g.co/kgs/cB6cjh
      Jun 15
    • Netflix / Eng oliveru
      Also, you need to read studies before publishing them lol Australia??!! What about muslim countries? I am sure there are also some disadvantages lol
      Jun 15
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      The McKinsey studies are based on the us and are probably the broadest of their kind.
      Why would the study being done in Australia mean it's not relevant?
      What do Muslim countries have to do with this? What does damore's rant have to do with this?
      Jun 15
  • Cisco webecisco
    They don’t have to. Stop pretending there’s some law that requires public disclosure to you.
    Jun 14 0
  • Netflix / Eng oliveru
    I am yet to see a study that shows we pay women less for the same job description, experience, hours put. A single serious study, not an opinion.
    Jun 14 26
    • Netflix / Eng Yose
      Men and women make the same amount right after college https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harvard-prof-takes-down-gender-wage-gap-myth
      Jun 18
    • Netflix / Eng Yose
      Jun 18
    • Netflix / Eng Yose
      Enough ? Maybe stop complaining and start working?! I am done here. Mic drop.
      Jun 18
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Time worked in ice land and job fatalities are relevant how?
      Working fewer hours relevant hour? You do understand the concept of equal pay for equal work right?
      If construction and plumbing were high paying jobs, that women were systematically kept out of, sure.
      In terms of women picking easier jobs, that is literally one woman.
      It's not surprising men and women make the same right after college - the wage gap is over their life times, as women miss out on promotions and advances due to systematic bias.
      If 58% of college grads are women, why aren't 58% of college educated jobs held by women?
      Jun 19
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      And lol at your micdrop. I give you the largest study of gender in the workplace in the us, and you give me a bunch of one off articles, not even the actual research.

      While you continue to cycle through usernames, might be worth reading up on what constitutes research, what the actual wage gap is about, and thinking about why you feel threatened by the concept of more women in the workplace.
      Jun 19
  • New / Strategy MWSt70
    A few thoughts:

    1) I believe that while there are probably some issues, most of this outrage overblown and driven by the press that enjoys demonizing tech and gaming companies (especially the latter)

    2) How does pay data indicate discrimination? I think it’s generally well understood that men are more willing to negotiate. If this means that men are paid a little higher on average for the same position, is this discrimination?
    Jun 14 1
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Studies show that women now negotiate as much as men. They're just less likely to be successful.
      Jun 14
  • Google rafaNadal
    How ironic is it that they’re named “Riot” !
    Jun 14 0
  • OceanX / Eng Tuqx04
    Let me guess, this should be gender discrimination against women right?
    Have anyone heard abt someone complaining abt gender against men.

    What did they do at riot against a gender... What is this discrimination exactly in this case, anyone from riot?
    Jun 14 2
  • Riot Games bear720
    First time they’ve put out a press release saying they are investigating a company instead of a press release stating a court judgement or settlement. The last several dozen releases on their site are not of this sort. It’s more than a little odd.

    We’ve been dragged through the mud in the press. People here have been obsessive with pay fairness for years, I seriously doubt there’s a systemic pay issue. But, our external reputation is bad on this topic due to the press coverage.

    I personally think this is political theater since Californians are demanding that the government get tough on sexual harassment and pay disparity and we are a convenient target with all of our bad press. We also don’t have a large legal department and are ‘nice’. I’m sure the individual investigators think they are doing the right thing going after us, but I’m a lot more cynical about government now and it feels really unfair.
    Jun 15 5
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      If people at your company are saying their is a pay difference, why do you disbelieve your colleagues? If they're saying that their sexual harassment wasn't taken seriously, why don't you believe them?
      Jun 17
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      In that case, there should be no reason to hold back salary data.
      Look, I get the media going after the company you work for (hello, I work at FB). But from what I've read, it doesn't seem like the system worked for sexual harassment - things had to go pretty far, and become public for a lot of the action to happen. And with the sexual harassment stuff, the articles describing the culture at riot seemed pretty bad. Sexual harassment happens at every company, and will hopefully also remain low enough to seem anecdotal. The pattern isn't that it happens, the pattern is what happens afterwards and how it's handled. Doesn't seem like that second bit was done well.
      If there isn't an issue at riot, CA can't invent pay data to show there is. If there is an issue, then things get fixed. I don't see what the loss here is, besides the fact that people suddenly know who riot is.
      Jun 17
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      Eh, I think I'll wait to see what they say. I assume that the department of labor has statisticians since half of what they do is analyse the labor market.

      Why would they release dialogue? to an internal whistleblower? That seems strange. Also, if the internal person was whistleblowing, then surely it means they saw a problem too?

      I'm confused.
      Jun 17
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      They did a press release for Google too. Riot isn't unique in this whole process.

      I mean, it's a good place to work, unless you're a woman? Nevermind the lawsuit, reading the accounts of women who've worked there makes it sound pretty grim. Why don't you believe that their experience doesn't match yours?

      Also, complaining directly to the investigator makes sense - riot has a vested interest in making sure no one complains. That sounds pretty standard. What's odd is that the person who posted the docs didn't get fired for posting confidential info - unless it was condoned by the company.
      Jun 18
    • Facebook / Eng lkj630
      The women who have had the bad experience have described it that way. Internal surveys are unlikely to show this because such a small minority are women.
      If people are trying to raise this, I'm tempted to believe them, especially if the treatment they're receiving is related to their gender. When you've spoken to your women colleagues, how do they feel?

      And, when there are multiple 'anecdotes' from a very small population, at what point do you consider them representative? Does every woman have to be sexually harassed for it to be a problem?
      Jun 18
  • PayPal
    retrograde

    PayPal

    PRE
    Amazon, Microsoft
    retrogrademore
    Friend of mine has an interview scheduled with Riot but they’re stalling - anyone know if hiring is frozen with this news?
    Jun 16 1
    • Riot Games bear720
      No, this isn’t affecting hiring and we are actively recruiting.
      Jun 16
  • New EVOy20
    Riot Riot!
    Jun 14 0
  • Salesforce TeaSea
    Google “Scott Gelb”

    How much tc would you need to get farted on and sack whacked?
    Jun 14 0
  • Goldman Sachs applecard
    Consulting companies in early 2000s used to just put everyone's pay right from CXO to the intern on internal websites and anyone could check everyone else's pay. Never had a problem with gender discrimination. On the other hand, people started working harder cause now there was more clarity on what it takes to get a certain amount of TC.

    Why do companies don't do that anymore.
    Jun 14 4