Do I have a shot at principal/staff level positions?
Currently Senior. I have a PhD from a well known school, 6 years of experience, several patents and publications. I have had bad luck working on projects/features that have been downsized or cancelled which makes it hard for me to advertise my achievements. Many grad school friends and former colleagues are in the sweet G6 / F6 /amzn7 level , while I am still stuck in 63 because I haven't played well the politics and negotiation games. My luck with cancellations probably doesn't help either. Do I have a shot at moving to another company and getting a position in those levels? Should I just accept that my next move will inevitably be in the senior range? I have to leave anyway because it is clear that I am not going to grow here.
You can’t move up at msft without luck or ass kissing. G is your best bet.
My nose and mouth are clean. That's why I haven't moved up. I will interview at Google and others in the next few weeks. I was just wondering whether I stand a chance at negotiating a L6 position.
You won’t get t6 at g. They rarely hire t6. But if you work hard and help your peers, you will move up... At msft, one person decides your fate.
Almost no chance at Amazon. The average PE (L7) has around 20 years of industry experience. Most MS->AMZN PE’s were 66. Some 65’s make it but they tend to be less successful. I’ve NEVER heard of a 63 making it.
OP, if it gives you any comfort, I'm in a worse situation than you. PhD from a top school (non CS though), publications in top journals, patents. Came in recently but at 62. I have domain knowledge but that's not most valued in my group. Seeing others at 63 and above makes me feel grossly underleveled. I'm already planning my next move to a place where I'll be valued (again) and not just seen as another dev. Cut your losses and move. Life is too short to stagnate in one place. Good luck!
Yea i saw a lot of that at msft. I was also phd from top school in relevant ml work, high profile papers, and patents. Did g and f then went msft. Came in at 64 with over 20 yr exp. Pissed off a bunch of people high up just by doing things better... left at 64. Msft is not a place where good people move up. Move on to a company that values talent.
Lmao, looks like yMcg47 has a new nick. What a loser you are dude. And yeah right, you’re worked at G/FB and came to Msft with over 20yrs of exp as a 64? Quit your bullshit and move on instead of spending every waking hour on blind.
63 to e6 at g or FB is an extreme long shot. E5 isn't guaranteed either. 63 has a lot of overlap with e4 at both those companies.
T5 at g is not hard to get... t6 needs some serious profile and referal
5 isn't super hard, but from 63 isn't a given. 64 would make it more likely.
Why do you assume that you should be at a certain level based on your previous credentials ? Not trying to be rude just a normal question . Once you are in a role your growth depends on what you bring to the table and how much impact you create . (Yes sometimes bad managers and company performance hinders this but you get the point ) From what I can see you are assuming you should be at a certain level simply based on the resume . Hopefully this will provide you something to ponder over
Agree. There is a big difference between academic achievement and industry experience. Hopefully your academic experience will give you knowledge to accelerate your advancement - but that’s from how it may help you perform, not because of the credential.
That's a fair question. I am basing it on what friends with similar backgrounds, similar skills, similar output got on similar timelines. Key differences are mostly on soft skills (negotiation, self-publicity, relationship with mana) in addition to timely moves (which I couldn't make because of greencard requirements). I am also basing this on my own co-workers feedback. They have been encouraging me to leave and find something better because they tell me I am being wasted here (their words not mine). This brings me to the point of feeling that I a messing up my career. I want to get back on track, but I am afraid that settling again for whatever I get will further set me back. Therefore the question of whether cut my losses and just go or stick around until I can move at a higher level. I am not trying to play victim here. My lack of soft skills brought me here, but I was hoping that my technical skills, resume and hopefully good interview performance could get make up for the time I lost, but maybe it won't . Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. They were in no way rude.
The way you asked the question brings notes of self-victimization. I do not know you and not trying to be rude, but the story of "oh well i welped do i have another chance" is not something I want to hear from a leader. I might have gotten your tone wrong.
Perhaps. Not rude. How would you phrase it? I'm sure I must have f'ed up something. I am just saying that there should be a way to get back on track. Thanks for the thought. In the end, I can only blame myself.
I haven't come across any Amazon Principals who have just 6 years of commercial experience. Most of them are middle aged, with one very gifted example I know of who did grad school-> principal in 8 or 9 years. No insult intended, but you might be setting yourself an unrealistic goal.
I know staffs at Google that have 6 years of experience. Seems that I have been trying to compare myself to exceptionally successful people. No offense taken. Thanks!
Like you said, it's a mindset thing if your peers with similar skills and experience ascended more quickly. There are probably books and other resources that can help you develop those soft skills. A lot of it is also luck as you mentioned, so get lucky.
That makes sense. Thanks
You’ve got a shot but you’d really have to shine. It’s really hard to get up leveled at FANG
What would shine mean in this context? Interviewers will be biased by my current level. If it's leetcode and system, what does it take to impress interviewers enough as to look beyond the level as reported by the recruiter?