European devs: Do people get laid off/fired over there?

Comcast delta888
May 29 18 Comments

What's the occurrence/frequency vis a vis USA? Comparisons across branches of same parent company? Personal experiences?

Please mention country.

TC 170k USD
yoe 5

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TOP 18 Comments
  • Uber fgfk67
    I worked in the Netherlands, where there is no such thing as at will employment. Your employer needs to go to court to prove that you are not doing your job before they can terminate your permanent employment contract. Of course, they can make your life miserable so that you sign a mutual agreement and leave. And salaries are lower / taxes are higher.
    May 29 8
    • Uber fgfk67
      If you qualify for the 30% ruling (and in tech, you should), then you only need to be there 5 years and learn Dutch to get a passport. Good luck!
      May 29
    • Amazon bQsO34
      Curious how is the cost of living in Amsterdam? Say with 80k/yr, what would be after tax salary?
      May 29
    • Tableau krxi15
      Does most of people communicate in English or is that a second language? Work as well as outside, like cabs, restaurants, stores etc?
      May 30
    • Uber fgfk67
      Yes, everyone speaks English in the Netherlands (it is a second language, but folks speak it well). 80k/ year is over 5k per month after tax with the 30 percent ruling - enough to live really well on in a country where you won't get surprised by an expense.
      May 30
    • Amazon bQsO34
      What's the 30% ruling? Is it flat tax bracket of some sort?
      May 30
  • Google / Eng hоcuspocus
    Switzerland: employment is completely at will, easy to hire & fire people. Still, many companies (banks especially) like to hire devs through body shop agencies
    May 30 0
  • Nvidia bit-coin
    Just don't work in Europe.. there's just some things in life not worth finding out
    May 29 2
    • Comcast delta888
      OP
      What’s your first hand experience?
      May 29
    • Nvidia bit-coin
      Just interviewing was bizzare and having worked internationally side by side with Europeans at their offices it's not nearly as comfortable (no come and go as you please, no real working independently, etc) as working in American offices
      May 29
  • Amazon kR1vg
    Yes they can lay off people and do.

    They have to go through all onerous process. Differs by country but for example they may have to have a public meeting where they present the proposal to lay people off and receive counter proposals and such, and then they will have to pay loads of severance.

    Firing somebody for performance problems is also tougher and requires a bullet proof paper trail documenting the performance issue along with the actions taken to try to train the employee on the correct behaviors.
    May 29 1
    • Comcast delta888
      OP
      Thank you for the specifics. Laying off total dead weights is OK, otherwise you cannot have a functioning organization. I’m only looking at things in relative terms. The power boundary is closer towards employers in US, and further away from workers if immigrant. Wanted to confirm my suspicion that it is indeed closer to employees in the EU. Appreciate your reply!
      May 29
  • Cirrus / Eng
    RaOne

    Cirrus Eng

    PRE
    NVIDIA, Cirrus Logic
    RaOnemore
    I work in UK. Started with UK based company which was taken over by US based.

    Layoffs do happen as per company’s situation & these days political scenes too. AFAIU, US owned companies are a bit brutal in layoff procedure even here, e.g.: one fine morning you come to office to know you are being laid off & leave before lunch with your stuff w/o anybody knowing. Traditional UK based companies seem a bit conservative here and do the same thing gradually (by giving garden leaves etc).

    However, both cases seem to get good severence package. Not sure if thats good or bad though.

    Folks on work visa have approx. 4-6 weeks to find new job & sponsorship before heading back to home country.
    May 29 0
  • Cisco cbd
    No
    May 29 1
    • Comcast delta888
      OP
      It can’t possibly be “never”. I’m trying to understand the devil in the details. Which country? Where is the boundary?
      May 29