FB E5 vs. Google L4

Cisco CdYe23
Feb 8, 2018 26 Comments

Got few questions since I haven’t dealt with recruiters in a long time. Pardon my naïveté.

1) Should I wait till the recruiters reveal their numbers even if they press for mine?
2) I feel that the Google numbers are going to be low. But can I still use that to negotiate a better package with FB? If yes, any tips?
3) In case the recruiter doesn’t reveal his numbers, where should I start? I saw few posts detailing FB E5 numbers. $170k - $195k base, $480k stocks (4 years), 15% cash bonus and $30k - $50k signing bonus. Is this a good starting point or should I start higher to land around these figures?
4) Career growth wise, FB seems the better choice based on what I’ve read/heard. Am I correct on this?

Many thanks in advance.

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TOP 26 Comments
  • E5 > L4. If you care about career growth you need to really consider this. Google could keep you at L4 for years.
    Feb 8, 2018 5
    • Cisco CdYe23
      OP
      Thanks. And thanks for pointing out L4. I changed the title.
      Feb 8, 2018
    • Yelp Block$$
      Google L4 doesn’t totally map to FB E5.
      Feb 8, 2018
    • Cisco CdYe23
      OP
      From a compensation and a responsibility point of view though, PhD+5years should map to L5 if you nail the interviews.
      Feb 8, 2018
    • Google Linkedin
      G L4 == FB E5
      Feb 10, 2018
    • That’s just not true as much as you wish it was
      Feb 10, 2018
  • Facebook Ga4lZ3
    I recently had to make the choice, got 4 from Google and 5 from FB. As you can see I chose FB ;)

    1) They'll probably ask you for a number first. Either don't give or give something pretty high.

    2) Google was willing to match FB and it was putting me above the normal band for 4. I think it would take at least 1.5 years to make 5 there based on talking with people I know there, during which time raises will probably be smaller since you're already above cap for level. And Google killed refresher for first year of new hires which turned me off as well.

    All comes down to interview performance, competing offers, and negotiations. I think the more competing offers the better. Get a unicorn startup in the mix to force stock up (lyft, Uber, Airbnb, Pinterest, etc.) since they offer huge amounts of paper money. The big companies won't match paper value but it can force them up a bit on rsus.

    Always start higher than you think they'll ever give you. Not an insanely out of question amount but higher than you think you'll actually get.

    3) I think e5 runs something like:
    165-195 base
    200-500 stock
    15% bonus
    0-100 starting

    There are a lot of variables though and nothing is set in stone from what I can tell.

    4) I think so but haven't worked at both. What I can say is team match with Google sucked. Bootcamp match making at FB is much more open and you can talk to pretty much any team you want. Google team match process is very opaque. I was ultimately able to get a match I liked with Google but it was by circumventing the normal system a bit by talking with people I knew there.
    Feb 8, 2018 3
    • Cisco CdYe23
      OP
      Wow. This is awesome. Can’t thank you enough. If it wasn’t anonymous, I would buy you lunch.
      Feb 8, 2018
    • Google svl
      When they ask about numbers is it just total compensation or the breakdown?
      Feb 8, 2018
    • Facebook Ga4lZ3
      I get free lunch already, no sweat! When they ask generally you're giving ballpark TC
      Feb 8, 2018
  • Facebook KingVegeta
    Don't underestimate Google's out-of-band offers, they may downlevel you but they could still beat FB E5 package at L4.

    That said, your hikes will be small and annual refreshers granted at L4 level until you make it to L5, so account for that as well.

    Lastly, work culture is important. Pick the company that suits your style best. Be warned that FB's "move fast" work style might not be the best fit for a PhD person that enjoys research. From what I hear Google has a way larger selection of research focused teams compared to FB, but that's not first hand information.
    Feb 8, 2018 1
    • Cisco CdYe23
      OP
      Pardon my ignorance, but what’s an out-of-band offer?

      Thanks for pointing out the research component. Do you get time to work on your own ideas within FB? This is not a deal breaker for me but it’s great to have that option. I know that companies advertise “ you get to spend x number of hours on innovation” but that’s rarely the case for product teams from what I’ve seen.
      Feb 9, 2018
  • Yelp Block$$
    Google’s level can be insulting but if you are a PhD and enjoy research, go Google.
    Feb 8, 2018 2
    • Facebook TzLd23
      FB has some good research teams too, plenty of phds doing cool things especially in AI.
      Feb 8, 2018
    • Cisco CdYe23
      OP
      What I heard from my colleagues is that things are getting pretty stagnant at Google in most teams. There’s a lot of learning opportunities, but no real research/innovation opportunities. Of course this will depend on the individual team, but it’s a common enough opinion it turns out.
      Feb 8, 2018
  • Facebook llama
    Lol why would you ever go for L4 if you can get E5? Makes absolutely no sense, L4 is a very dumb option.
    Feb 8, 2018 3
    • Google Noogler69
      Isn’t it fun to have low expectations?
      Feb 8, 2018
    • Facebook llama
      Lol, not my kind of fun
      Feb 8, 2018
    • Facebook ozzoe46
      Low expectations comes with low refreshers too.

      I would rather take $240k e5 refresh over some $120k L4 refresh.
      Mar 6, 2018
  • Rubrik / Eng
    Moonkey

    Rubrik Eng

    PRE
    Palantir, BetterWorks
    Moonkeymore
    Google out of band offer can be significantly higher than FB offer
    Feb 8, 2018 0
  • Amazon Qlch60
    Aren't recruiters supposed to reveal ranges for the job level in California?
    Feb 8, 2018 1
    • Pandora FreePanda
      Base only I think.
      Feb 8, 2018
  • Google graphicsma
    I'd try to get FB offer first and see if Google will counter
    Feb 8, 2018 1
    • Cisco CdYe23
      OP
      Thanks for the suggestion. I will consider this.
      Feb 8, 2018
  • Apple Elon Musk!
    How many years of experience?
    Feb 8, 2018 1
    • Cisco CdYe23
      OP
      PhD with 5 years.
      Feb 8, 2018