Facebook M1 now or wait/hope for Google L7?

New ctty04
Sep 23 41 Comments

Hello all, long time listener, first time caller. Current TC $430k, YOE: 20+, including 13 as a manager of ICs and 5 as a manager of managers. Located on the East Coast.

I'm moving on from my current gig and had the following interview rounds for management roles: VP Eng for local public company, M1 at FB, L7 AT G, and L68 at MSFT. Currently FB and G are in the mix (declined VP Eng offer, and was top choice for MSFT but they decided to re-org instead).

An offer is incoming from FB this week and my packet is hopefully going to HC for Google in the next couple days. Google recruiter is confident of passing HC, but noted that there aren't many roles currently open. Similarly, there are no M2 roles open @ FB.

Obviously, Google L7 is a step up from FB M1. FB recruiter noted that there's no way to match a decent Google L7 offer with FB M1 bands. From what I've seen here, team matching at G could last several months, and my location probably isn't improving my odds. Based on that, my plan is (assuming a solid offer from FB) to go with FB, crush it, and make it to M2. How possible/likely is it to make it to M2? Any idea on timeframe for a solid performer? Anecdotal evidence is fine.

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TOP 41 Comments
  • Facebook opissaying
    M1 here. If you choose F I would suggest forgetting about "crush it and make it to M2". The competition in this level is crazy, so many talented M1s and not enough scope for M2, specially in East Coast. Expectations are very very high so prepare yourself. For a stellar M1 it can take years to build enough scope and show consistent M2 performances before getting promoted.

    An easier route would be to go to other companies who can pay close to F/G as M2 - Uber/Lyft etc .
    Sep 23 4
    • New ctty04
      OP
      Thanks for the reply. Options in my location are more limited and family makes moving tough, otherwise I would have moved to Redmond and grabbed a Partner role at MSFT. There was definitely a lot of "if you wanted to move to Seattle area, we've got lots of openings" in those discussions.

      Perhaps and option would be to go to FB, enjoy the TC bump, and try again at others after a couple years.
      Sep 23
    • Google poDV10
      What kind of a TC does a MSFT partner make? Why do you not consider that role for long term?
      Sep 23
    • New ctty04
      OP
      Not 100% sure, but probably $800k+ all-in. Due to my location, I'd have to move for that role though, and don't want to do that to my kiddo. We just moved to a new town/school a year ago and it was a bit rough. A local position for that role opening up was somewhat random and not likely to happen again for a long time.
      Sep 23
    • Google poDV10
      Thanks. In that case a partner is probably equivalent to high 7, low 8 at FB/Goog.
      Sep 23
  • Google poDV10
    I think OP does realize that M1 to M2 needs time and opportunity. Some range will probably help OP in calculating the trade off he/she is making.
    Sep 23 17
    • Samsung agaz
      Congratulation on match. I was in similar situation. Decided to join G L7 vs FB M1. Would you share your TC @ G?
      Oct 1
    • Google poDV10
      I have been in the same position in the past. It’s an opportunity to seek information that helps you in decision making. Also important to keep at par the progress of two processes.
      Oct 1
    • New ctty04
      OP
      The process is definitely interesting and it's funny how things work. I've been on the hiring end of these discussions 100+ times, but this is really the first time I've had multiple offers to work with. Having been in that position, and wanting to respect the work of the recruiters, I try to be honest and forthcoming in conversations without unnecessarily volunteering information.

      I did speak with the recruiter and gave my number which is squarely in the middle of a range determined from this site and Levels. The recruiters reply was that it was a bit aggressive, but that's fine since the only bad responses are "we can totally do that" or "no way" which indicate you asked for too little or way too much respectively.

      Recruiter did push to get FB offer to help the comp analysts, but I noted that hadn't been negotiated yet, so it wasn't particularly helpful here. I did indicate that my number is my "buy it now" price, so I don't want to negotiate with bad faith with FB. I.e. negotiate with no intention of taking the offer. Probably not the best for my TC, but at this point I value my integrity more than what would probably amount to $30k after taxes.

      I'll see where the offer comes in and decide if FB is back in the game. If G comes in low, I'll then negotiate with FB. I really liked both teams, roles, and opportunities so I have the luxury of deciding between two good options.
      Oct 2
    • Google poDV10
      It certainly gets tricky. I took the road of integrity. I kept myself true to my word.
      Oct 2
    • Wayfair / Eng BScK77
      Finally got the offer and am pretty underwhelmed. It matches my requested TC only by front loading 40% equity in year one. Averaging everything over 4 years makes it about $20k more than my currently non-negotiated FB offer. About $12k after taxes.

      Edit: I am OP. Lost previous acct due to reverification
      Oct 4
  • MobileIron loom
    Which location you are based currently and please share your interview experience. What kind of rounds and difficulty of questions
    Sep 23 1
    • New ctty04
      OP
      Hi, I'd rather not say location as that might be too identifiable. We'll leave it at East Coast.

      MSFT experience was definitely the best, and left me with a much more positive impression of the company. An Executive Recruiter reached out and wanted to chat. I realized after about 20 minutes into our call that this was a bit of a behavioral screen for a local role. Things looked good, so onsite in WA was set up. First class flights, car service, etc. It was well done. Interviews were with various Partner and VP/CVP level folks and were a mix of behavioral as well as talking about approaches to the actual challenges being faced.

      Google started with me submitting a resume online. They got back to me within 24 hours to have an initial chat. That was followed by phone screen and then the onsite. Onsite was 2 system design and 3 behavioral/managerial rounds.

      FB contacted me a year ago about a role, so I reached out to that recruiter to get the ball rolling. I went to the office to have an initial screen with the hiring manager, which was very positive. We had very similar backgrounds and the manager seemed like someone I could work very well with. Onsite in CA was scheduled, where I met people ranging from < 5 years total work experience to VP level. Rounds were 1 coding, 1 project retrospective, 1 management, 2 system design. Coding was pretty easy, though it did require a small bit of cleverness and understanding a couple common data structures.

      In general, all three experiences were pretty positive. I was able to establish a rapport with the interviewers and I asked each some very frank questions about company and culture. I was generally impressed with the candor in the responses as well as overall consistency in answers about what they liked most/least about their companies.
      Sep 23
  • Facebook / Eng
    foggydesi

    Facebook Eng

    BIO
    previously worked at startups and eng leadership at fortune 50 companies, Google & now at FB
    foggydesimore
    TLDR; Goog L7 is slightly better than FB L6 for TC. expectations are high at BOTH places. Goog is generally better WLB ( avg case) ; you will learn a LOT and FASTER as well as grow faster at FB than Goog. If you are good & can navigate the FB culture ...you will rise FAST at FB ( not sure abt East coast opportunities etc ...but generally true)

    FB is notorious for downleveling by 1 level ...if you were Manager of Manager at another smaller company( not google ) ...you will most likely be brought in as L6/M1 ...I've seen VP's at small companies come in as M1's ..but only if the people skills are steller ...else FB will just give you a IC6 offer( assuming great tech) ... M1 expectations are pretty high ...M2 is a tough role to come into if you haven't worked at FB / Goog scale, you need to get work done from various teams who have their own agendas ...your title is irrelevant at FB or Goog...your influence and aptitude is what will make you successful
    Sep 23 1
    • New ctty04
      OP
      Thanks for the insights. I'm generally good at the "get work done from various teams who have their own agendas" parts of the job, so I feel pretty good about that.
      Sep 24
  • Apple / Eng
    banana-man

    Apple Eng

    PRE
    Amazon
    banana-manmore
    FB is infamous about the rat race and terrible WLB. Reading your post I feel you're a person who thinks family time is important. Google would be better in this case.
    Sep 23 3
    • Google poDV10
      Maybe the spouse stays at home, in which case WLB is less of a concern.

      WLB at Google is good for ICs in many groups, but not all. For L7 managers, there is lot of stress because of dirty politics. Now not all groups are having organic growth. Lot more L7 managers are now stagnated than 5 years ago. Many of them are cut throat ambitious. With organic growth gone, they are now turning to politics to fuel their trajectories. As an example, Last year or so, plenty of that had happened at Assistant.
      Sep 23
    • New ctty04
      OP
      Definitely good information. I'd have to balance TC w/WLB. My better half does work, though with a bit of flexibility in the schedule. Regardless, it'll take a lot to match a previous role as a VP Eng in a startup that eventually went through an acquisition. That was a couple years of 12 hour days.
      Sep 23
    • Google poDV10
      These won’t be 12 hours/day roles. Around PSC at FB will be when you may have to put most hours.
      Sep 23
  • Microsoft BedlamBar
    Just FYI: In terms of TC *and* leveling: MSFT L68 (Partner) > Google L7 > Facebook M1. Note, that's not comparing the companies, teams, managers or any other factors. I was in a similar boat as you (except was L67 at MS), I had a couple other offers in the mix (but I'll post about that some day later)
    Oct 5 5
    • Wayfair / Eng BScK77
      (I'm the OP) Yeah, I wanted the MSFT role for a number of reasons. I really liked the leadership team/CVP, tech area, the role itself, etc.

      In terms of TC, initial offers were within about 2% of each other. The difference was that FB actually offered more than I asked for. When I countered, the again offered more than I asked for. G offer was about 12% less than what I asked for, but structured with front loaded equity to pump up Y1. The end result was FB, despite being a lower level, ended up with same base, more equity, more signing bonus, and a better refresh.

      FWIW, I didn't reveal any offer details to the recruiters, though FB knew I was getting an L7 offer from G and G knew I was getting an M1 offer (which probably contributed to their low-ball).

      FB and G recruiters were great and always kept me in the loop and responded quickly. In both groups, hiring manager and director seemed like people I could work well with. There were some other factors that convinced me to join FB beyond just TC, but revealing those might out me.
      Oct 5
    • Google poDV10
      @Bedlambar what is the scope of work and TC for L68 at MSFT?
      Oct 5
    • Box fIdv63
      L68/Partner is a great level/title/scope. And I suspect easier to get to L69 than L8/D1 at Google/FB. All else being equal, MSFT sounds pretty darn attractive to me.
      Nov 26
    • Google poDV10
      Knowing that scope of work is ‘great’ doesn’t help people unless followed by actual details. Please provide more info.

      Same comment for ‘68 —> 69 being easier’. By itself this isn’t much help. What’s needed for that promo?
      Dec 1
    • Wayfair / Eng BScK77
      For the role I interviewed for, it was leading a remote team of about 50-60 that was suffering from having a leader who was suited for technical leadership but not people leadership. The role was pretty strategic in terms of figuring out how/if the remote team could work as an integrated part of a distributed team (2 remote orgs and a larger HQ org). If it couldn't, figure out what to do to make it happen.

      Additionally, I would have been part of bringing a local product leader on board and worked very closely with that person to align product and Engineering priorities aka the balance between perfection and actually shipping things. ;)
      Dec 2
  • Facebook / Eng e999
    L7 is eng. M1 is a manager. Are you a rockstar that can excel at both roles?
    Sep 23 1
    • New ctty04
      OP
      The Google L7 is a manager role as well.
      Sep 23
  • Google poDV10
    Ask FB to put follow on interviews for M2. This will buy you time as well.

    BTW - will you be relocating? M2 opening should happen soon in Menlo Park. I am surprised there are no M2 openings in FB.
    Sep 23 1
    • New ctty04
      OP
      Unfortunately, relocation isn't an option. We recently moved to a new town/school and it was rough on mini-me. Otherwise, I'd move to Seattle area for the MSFT jobs.

      Lack of openings is probably due to my location. It's not a huge office, so options are limited.
      Sep 23

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