Facebook is not evil

Facebook uPNE71
Apr 27 68 Comments

I don’t understand why people complain about Facebook, Google etc... being evil. Our laws are outdated and incomplete.

Putting pressure on companies to wilfully do the right thing is fucking stupid and not sustainable. Pressure should be put on governments so that the laws keep up with technology and innovation to protect the fundamental rights of citizens. Corporations will never, and should never play this role. They should follow the law.

Companies work within the framework of the law. Most/All companies will do whatever they can to maximize their profit. Even companies that advocate for corporate social responsibility almost always do it because positive public relations effect their balance sheets.

Facebook has started to care about privacy now. Not because it’s the right thing to do. In the profit/loss equation it makes sense for facebook to invest more in that direction now.

It’s like asking companies to pay higher taxes voluntarily. They are only obligated to pay the absolute minimum tax the law allows them to. Just like you and me.


Tldr:
Don’t hate the player. Hate the game.
Stop being fucking stupid and get TC.

TC: 270k

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TOP 68 Comments
  • Amazon gd47vf
    Well this explains a lot, good to know Facebook's logic
    Apr 27 14
    • Facebook / Eng
      YeahNah

      Facebook Eng

      PRE
      Google
      YeahNahmore
      On Netflix, even worse.
      Apr 27
    • Lol @ YeahNah
      Apr 27
    • Microsoft / Product
      Brazuka

      Microsoft Product

      PRE
      Bain & Company
      Brazukamore
      OP started well but then showed how infantile he is in this thread
      Apr 28
    • Facebook uPNE71
      OP
      The point wasn’t to attack Amazon or Microsoft but shake the foundation of a moral high ground that you guys use to attack facebook.

      You guys are standing on pillars of sand.

      Let’s not pretend that most profit-making companies are anything more than profit-making companies. In the grand scheme of things, it’s an efficient way to allocate capital and if the government and law-making bodies can do their job well, we all win.
      May 1
    • Microsoft / Product
      Brazuka

      Microsoft Product

      PRE
      Bain & Company
      Brazukamore
      Nobody's defending Microsoft or Amazon here. I agree they're the same as fb, all are profit oriented (Amazon more so customer oriented but screwing everybody else)
      May 1
  • Salesforce TSXu74
    "we can ignore basic ethics and privacy because money. Oh, and no governing body told us not to."
    Apr 27 6
    • Evernote zxWfvt
      The issue is consent. Facebook had data that was exposed to developers in ways they didn’t know was possible and no one knew. And then that data was used maliciously. No one is saying the issue is using data to target people for ads. EVERYONE does that. There was a huge breach of trust here.

      Also the more recent issues aren’t even privacy related. They’re just really poor engineering. I feel they handled it as best they could tho.
      Apr 27
    • Facebook uPNE71
      OP
      Yeah I agree there is a lot of incompetence in play here. But that’s different from being evil, which literally everyone and their dad now thinks facebook is.
      Apr 27
    • Facebook easzss
      Facebook sold data? Wow didn’t know that. Thanks for educating us about our own company Evernote. How many days since last application?
      Apr 27
    • Facebook / Eng
      YeahNah

      Facebook Eng

      PRE
      Google
      YeahNahmore
      Facebook literally never sold data.

      Prove me wrong.
      Apr 27
    • Evernote zxWfvt
      Hey just wanted to apologize. I was poorly informed and read more about it. Facebook never sold data. Really sorry about that. Updated my comment.
      Apr 27
  • Microsoft oanfien
    I can reasonably expect you not to store passwords in plain text. And bar employees from accessing those passwords. Change my mind
    Apr 27 6
    • Microsoft oanfien
      Eye of the beholder. Your profit model is to monetize data. I don't consider that a moral "good". "Evil" is not "operating within the confines of the law". It's a question of morals, which is subjective by nature.
      Apr 27
    • Facebook easzss
      Cool then every company that does
      Marketing is evil. Good to know
      Apr 27
    • Microsoft oanfien
      You clearly don't have a clue what marketing is. Nor are you approaching this conversation in good faith.
      Apr 27
    • Facebook easzss
      Lol didn’t know you know my background. I know a lot about marketing CLV and personalization. It’s you that’s uneducated.

      Stay at Microsoft and continue making baseless assumptions
      Apr 27
    • Microsoft oanfien
      I'm at Netflix now and planning to boomerang. You have a rough road ahead of you.
      Apr 27
  • Microsoft TrumpWins
    Can’t wait till the government is policing speech on social media to go after political enemies. FB already does it and can’t explain how they’re a platform vs publisher, so it’s no surprise FB wants the government to take over an issue that their company is unable to solve.
    Apr 27 2
    • Amazon / Mgmt Db8db4
      Well, Sargon and Dankula official campaign Twitter accounts got banned, so it's already happening.
      Apr 27
    • Microsoft TrumpWins
      It’s because those types of people have a large audience and go against whatever the left wing narrative is. Alex Jones was deplatformed off everything because 1/3 of Trump voters listened to his show.

      Also imagine any other company begging the government to regulate them. You know something is up when people like OP are so desperate for regulation on themselves.
      Apr 27
  • Dropbox cer
    Stop being fucking stupid, go do porn for TC, go sell drugs for TC, go rob a bank for TC! Our laws are outdated!
    Apr 27 0
  • Square Br7i899
    I find it funny when people hate on Facebook yet use their apps. Hate Facebook? Then GTFoff their apps (Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp) No? That’s what I thought. it’s that simple. They’ll still make their money.
    Apr 27 9
    • Amazon / Mgmt Db8db4
      Jokes on you, I never used any of those.
      Apr 28
    • Facebook Faceboоk
      Grandpa, is that you?
      Apr 28
    • Oracle alwzangry
      It's actually the grandpas who are holding on to FB once they get on it. What do you think the targets of news-like propaganda ads are?
      Apr 28
    • Facebook Faceboоk
      FB sure, but Instagram is bigger than you are willing to admit with all age groups :)
      Apr 28
    • Oracle alwzangry
      Yeah, IG is popular among teens who use it as a cross-platform messenger. I'm not sure about all age groups. It's great that people don't see it as a news source - yet. I wonder why the founders keep leaving with disagreements with MZ and SS.
      Apr 28
  • Microsoft shambu
    Go easy on KoolAid brother.
    Apr 27 0
  • Dont even get me started
    Apr 27 0
  • Microsoft 💤hdjw
    One reason Facebook and Google are evil because they are bending over to all kind of sinister government demands, like censorship. Their answer should be simple: we are a platform, we don't censor anything that's legal. Change the laws if you wish. If the elected officials still have a taste for censorship, let them do it publicly, introducing censorship laws. Taking the risk to be voted out, you know.
    Apr 28 1
    • Square / Eng SQ
      Isn't Microsoft becoming evil? They're actually selling tech now for war.
      Apr 28
  • Zillow Group drunkenly
    I used Turbo C but is been a while ...
    Apr 27 0
  • Google / Eng catburglar
    OP, you're definitely not googley.
    Apr 27 2
    • Facebook Faceboоk
      Seems like most Googlers like to spank themselves in public and sing mea culpa.
      Apr 27
    • Google / Eng catburglar
      Calm down fb..
      Apr 27
  • New Dsdt06
    As the Zuck once said, "I don't want to live in a world where someone else is making the world a better place better than we are”
    Apr 27 2
    • Facebook uPNE71
      OP
      Haha that’s awesome
      Apr 27
    • Gavin Belson said that, but you already know it lol
      Apr 27
  • Square / Eng SQ
    Facebook is pretty evil. It's becoming the status quo now, but let's not gloss over the rampant abuse of privacy they've done for years. And any change to "privacy" just for profit reasons shows that ethically, it's a shitty company.

    But again, other companies do it too, so it's not just FB.
    Apr 27 0
  • Amazon / Mgmt Db8db4
    Except, using user data after the user deleted their account; selling data that is not yours and ignoring your own TOC; telling the Congress you do not sell to foreign states, and get caught selling to Chinese government 3 months later; tricking kids to pay micro transactions into $1000's "as long as it makes money" and then fighting the laws on this; banning people you politically disagree with. This is all definitely evil: you willfully skirt the laws and then blame the lack of laws... It's like blaming the rape victim because she "was asking for it".
    Apr 27 0
  • Microsoft / Eng
    ParxAve

    Microsoft Eng

    PRE
    Apple
    ParxAvemore
    While the laws are being formed, which take a long time, we need to look at short term and quick fixes. The methods you propose are not good enough and there are enough lobbyists to prevent the laws from going through quickly.
    Apr 27 3
    • Facebook uPNE71
      OP
      It’s not perfect, but it’s the only mechanism we have. There are also intermediary mechanisms the government has to tackle urgent crisises.

      If the alternative is that companies should be inherently ethical, that is just childish. How will that work exactly?
      Apr 27
    • Facebook uPNE71
      OP
      Also lobbying in the US is broken. We need laws to fix that too. But capitalism...
      Apr 27
    • Microsoft / Eng
      ParxAve

      Microsoft Eng

      PRE
      Apple
      ParxAvemore
      Well, it kind of worked with FB. People are questioning their moves. So are for Microsoft/Google/Amazon.
      Apr 27
  • Facebook Faceboоk
    I’m for one quite comfortable with what the company did around privacy and how it handled the media pressure, which is largely US centered.

    We are making tons of money, have one of the very best work environments for top engineers and have products that billions of people use and many can’t go without.

    So... I... don’t... give... a... fuсk... about salty bitсhes complaining about us :)

    Facebook will stay high and strong and most likely outlast most other tech firms other than Google :)
    Apr 27 0
  • Apple hakunanaMa
    How has employees not complaint regarding coo sandberg telling pure lies to media? Learn ethics from Yahoo who fired their Cheif legal officer as soon as investigators found he lied and didn’t take appropriate steps wrt the hacks
    Apr 27 0
  • Cloudera / Creative 9/11, Jr.
    Law is created out of reaction; rarely can laws predict how technology will be used against the current of goodwill. Lawmakers simply do not and cannot know what is possible with every given technological advancement. That’s why corporations should and do bear the burden of responsibility to begin with, in order to guide innovation and its use cases in a direction that moulds with a “normative” moral framework.
    Apr 27 3
    • Facebook uPNE71
      OP
      Laws have had 10 years
      Apr 27
    • Facebook uPNE71
      OP
      My point is not that corporations should be evil.

      It’s that they will always prioritize profit whether you like it or not. You cannot fault them for maximising profit within the legal framework.

      People need to be mad at laws not changing fast enough.
      Not at companies trying to make a buck
      Apr 27
    • Cloudera / Sales 9/11, Jr.
      Well, that makes sense. But on that note, the fact that both the law and the corporate world prioritize exorbitant amounts of money as a qualification of legal and corporate character/position is something to analyze and question. If it isn’t the methods people have problems with, then its the goal: lotsa lotsa money.

      Oh well.
      Apr 27
  • Well, yes. But, media cycle.
    Apr 28 0
  • Oracle alwzangry
    If you run a restaurant business, expect people will critique the quality of food and service, especially if it is a high-end restaurant. If your clientele includes Al Capone and gang, you'd face criticism that other restaurants don't. People praise and criticize Oppenheimer for the atomic bomb too, depending on their views.
    Apr 27 0

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