Folks who joined Apple as new grad PhDs

Apple industry
Feb 14 158 Comments

What was your initial TC in [base/4-yr RSU/perf bonus] format?

My initial TC: ~200k [155k/105k/13%]

Edit: Thanks for the wonderful insights, blind. Y’all will get me fired one day.

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TOP 158 Comments
  • Oracle blahbl
    Only 155k for a phd?
    Feb 14 14
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Good to know. I now think I should have started this thread in the Apple specific forum. Everyone on here is comparing my salary against FNG and outliers at those companies.
      Feb 18
    • Zenefits ashlymdsn
      OP, you know that A in FANG is Amazon and not Apple, right?
      Feb 19
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Yes but from what I hear Amazon doesn’t pay like FNG either.
      Feb 19
    • Pure Storage cosmoKramr
      $150 for a PhD. Dude you should shop around. What’s the upside?
      Feb 19
    • Google / R&D
      seller

      Google R&D

      PRE
      Google, Amazon
      sellermore
      Amazon will beat FNG for top candidates but their avg is lower
      Feb 20
  • Amazon newton12
    Wow this is really low. I made this much with my first job and only an undergrad. What gives?
    Feb 18 4
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Not sure if you are serious or trolling with all the high TC posts on blind these days
      Feb 18
    • Zillow Group YSpf84
      Ya crazy low. I was a high school drop out drug addict prostitute and made 180k base at Apple
      Feb 18
    • Two Sigma mQzQ05
      180? Did you have competing offers?
      Feb 18
    • Intel UGeJ58
      I made 180k base as a prostitute. Full benefits too
      Feb 23
  • Google / R&D
    seller

    Google R&D

    PRE
    Google, Amazon
    sellermore
    These numbers are super low... undergrads are getting 220K TC at G and FB and I've heard of 300K PhD offers at both
    Feb 18 13
    • Apple industry
      OP
      What was your first year tc without sign on bonus and relocation allowance? If I include those my tc is 250k.
      Feb 20
    • Apple industry
      OP
      @cooktim, what’s the refresher range for the first year?
      Feb 20
    • Facebook onika
      164k. Also I was a New grad.
      Feb 20
    • Apple industry
      OP
      New grad PhD? Also, how long was this ago and what role? I heard Facebook pays new grad PhDs the highest median salary after Netflix.
      Feb 20
    • Facebook onika
      Undergrad
      Feb 20
  • Microsoft Girlfriend
    Oof, I was a phd intern @ $108 base pay
    Feb 14 24
    • eBay / Eng
      mDBW53

      eBay Eng

      PRE
      NVIDIA
      mDBW53more
      Interns don’t have benefits though. So you should be paid similar to a contractor.
      Feb 14
    • Microsoft Girlfriend
      Interns are student’s on their school’s summer health plan.
      Feb 14
    • New / R&D zorkan
      If you're looking for thesis topics, a good thing to do is goto small workshops that are chaired by big name researchers. Yann LeCun chairs some IPAM workshops at UCLA every now and then as a sort of passion project (I think registration is like $25 and used to be auto accept). The ppl he surrounds himself with tend to be the rising stars with great ideas and energy. NeurIPS is the top venue in our field, but people are more conservative with their ideas and what they will put out there. It's more of a marketing event.
      Feb 14
    • Oracle blahbl
      Wow very interesting idea. Didn’t know that. Do you know anything similar in bay area?
      Feb 14
    • Oracle blahbl
      @microsoft - how did you get a contract job for internship?
      Feb 20
  • Google / Product
    Urs

    Google Product

    PRE
    Microsoft, 500 Startups
    Ursmore
    Dude this is low. Masters are getting more. Go back and renegotiate
    Feb 18 3
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Is it even possible to renegotiate?
      Feb 18
    • Google / Product
      Urs

      Google Product

      PRE
      Microsoft, 500 Startups
      Ursmore
      Everything is possible before you join. If you have a manager tell them that you talked to your friends and found that your compensation is very low.

      Strategy #2: go get a competing FANG offer and use that to beat them over the head with.
      Feb 18
    • Microsoft / Product
      Brazuka

      Microsoft Product

      PRE
      Bain & Company
      Brazukamore
      This guy is trolling
      Feb 18
  • Microsoft / Eng Doink
    I started at msft 4 years ago post PhD with a TC of $152k without any competing offers.
    Feb 18 0
  • Apple industry
    OP
    45k in private sector? What’s your role?
    Feb 18 5
    • Finance back office. Worked overnights and went to grad school in the afternoons, completing my master's and PhD in linguistics over ten years. Never thought too seriously about making a career out of it but I've come to really love this field and want to do machine translation.
      Feb 18
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Dat dere motivation :)
      Feb 18
    • Assuming you're not being facetious, thank you. :)
      Feb 18
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Not being facetious at all. Takes motivation to finish phd while working overnight..
      Feb 18
    • Happy to hear that! I was 40 when I finished, so not really marketable anymore. My publications will still be read long after I'm gone, though!
      Feb 18
  • Intuit b7x1s
    The reality is, in most software roles, time spent getting industry experience is more valuable than time in academia, for anything past a bachelor’s.
    Feb 18 3
    • Apple hbdeegbbot
      PhD grads are annoying. They think they walk on water when actually they wasted 4 extra years deep diving on an academic subject that is of little use.
      Feb 18
    • LinkedIn cool_putra
      Hyper ignorant comment... u must some java developer. Stay ignorant, stay happy!
      Feb 19
    • Apple hbdeegbbot
      This is my experience with new PhD grads. Takes them a couple of years of being humiliated by guys with practical experience to deflate their huge egos, but they get there eventually.
      Feb 19
  • New plasma
    Masters with 3 yoe. Apple ML, got 300k TC. You got a very low-ball offer imo.
    Feb 18 0
  • New / Eng
    beluga

    New Eng

    PRE
    LinkedIn
    belugamore
    Dude. That's hella low for PhD. Masters total comp at LinkedIn is 200k. You got a whole extra 4-6 years of research experience from PhD (plus you're doing a hybrid role, which usually pays more). The base is alright but the stock is definitely lacking
    Feb 18 7
    • New / Eng
      beluga

      New Eng

      PRE
      LinkedIn
      belugamore
      You may already be on the higher end for ICT3, but as a PhD you should be a very quick promote to ict4 and you should be given close to Max possible total comp (which you're not quite at yet)
      Feb 18
    • Apple industry
      OP
      I did check levels.fyi. The higher end is for people who are not new grads. Adding the refreshers that apple pays from the second year onwards, I don't find it surprising that ICT3 with even 1 year of experience have considerably more TC than new grads.

      Tbh, I don't trust levels.fyi. I downloaded and checked their data and it doesn't seem reliable. For example, that website requires folks to enter their RSU's per year and some people mistakenly put their aggregate 4-yr RSU's. And that tends to mess up the averages.

      Unfortunately, I have been realizing blind is not much better either lol.
      Feb 18
    • New / Eng
      beluga

      New Eng

      PRE
      LinkedIn
      belugamore
      I find that averages aren't great on levels.fyi
      You're better off looking at the raw data

      Blind is actually fairly decent at aggregating info. numbers are usually very accurate but tend to skew towards the higher end
      Feb 18
    • New / Eng
      beluga

      New Eng

      PRE
      LinkedIn
      belugamore
      Regardless, you should always negotiate whenever you get an offer. That's just rule #1,2, and 3.
      The worst they could do is say no. But given that they gave u a fairly high offer for the position you're at in apple, it's safe to assume they value you and your talents more than a typical hire. You should be able to get more stock fairly easily
      Feb 18
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Yep agreed, averages on levels.fyi are distorted. The raw data on levels.fyi for new grads at ICT3 suggests that I am at the high end for that level but I am not too sure of that.

      Is there a way to aggregate info on Blind? The folks on here seem to be quoting outliers at higher paying FNG.
      Feb 18
  • Apple Aa1
    ICT3 is the standard level offered to PhD new grads at most groups at Apple. Your base is above average for this level. 105k stock for ICT3 is pretty standard if you don’t have a counter offer. In any case if this is recently granted ( @<$170), you are doing pretty well compared to many hires who joined just a few months ago. In overall, ICT3 at TC 200k for PhD new grad without any counter offer is probably the median.
    Feb 20 4
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Finally someone that actually answers my question. Thanks for not comparing my salary with salaries at other companies and contrasting with the general distribution and not the outliers.

      Quick question: what do you mean by less than $170 ?
      Feb 20
    • Apple Aa1
      Well, today’s rate for 1aapl is ~$170, that’s what I mean.
      Feb 21
    • Apple Aa1
      Many who joined at the end of summer had their stocks granted at $225 per stock :/
      Feb 21
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Gotcha thanks
      Feb 21
  • Zillow Group d3bug
    last year, 175/250k rsu 4y/ 50k signup
    Feb 18 4
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Was this at apple? And how many years of industry experience did you have before you joined?
      Feb 18
    • Zillow Group d3bug
      yeah, new grad phd. I declined the offer.
      Feb 18
    • Microsoft kosm
      Curiously, what's your offer from Zillow?
      Feb 18
    • Apple industry
      OP
      So you came in at ICT4? I am fairly sure that 260k TC with 50k signup at Apple corresponds to ICT4 or an ultra rockstar, superstar ICT3. In either case, any reason you turned down Apple's offer and joined Zillow?
      Feb 18
  • Magic Leap ——-
    I got 370 tc as PhD new grad.
    Feb 18 1
    • Apple industry
      OP
      not gonna feed the trolls sorry
      Feb 18
  • Netflix LoveLJR
    Not trolling with others but this is really low. 4 years ago my PhD-new-grad friends got 240-300k from google at T4 and 220k-260k from fb. I think having competing offers is the key. Don’t take this one and go try grab more offers. Even startups’ offers that are lower than this would help negotiate.
    Feb 18 1
    • Apple industry
      OP
      I don't think I should expect Apple to pay at the level of goog/fb and definitely not netflix. I am not trying to compare across companies. I just want to know where I stand compared to the median new grad PhD at Apple. Also, someone here pointed out that the salaries you mention at goog/fb are outliers in those companies and do not represent the median pay.
      Feb 18
  • I'm a fresh PhD, earning ~45k in the private sector, who will be doing postdocs at ~36k before even attempting to apply with places like Apple!
    Feb 18 0
  • Universal Orlando 8675309k
    Stock is super low.
    Feb 18 6
    • Universal Orlando 8675309k
      TBH, If other offers on here are factual, and given your level of education, yes. I'm seeing 200K-300K with a 4 year cliff for FAANG pretty often.
      Feb 18
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Well, I am not comparing across companies in FAANG. I understand that FNG and to some extent Amazon pay more. Rather, I am interested in salaries within Apple. Do you often see 200k-300k for new grad phd's at Apple too?
      Feb 18
    • Universal Orlando 8675309k
      [Blind] Check out this post! Apple offer (Compensation)
      https://us.teamblind.com/s/5BHMMo5x
      Feb 18
    • Universal Orlando 8675309k
      [Blind] Check out this post! Apple offer (Compensation)
      https://us.teamblind.com/s/wpznu4Uo
      Feb 18
    • Apple industry
      OP
      The first person had 6 yoe after PhD and got a senior ICT4 role whereas new grad PhD's at Apple start at ICT3. The second person's TC is about 140k with 2 yoe and no PhD. I am not sure how to compare their profiles with mine??
      Feb 18
  • Google Woopsy
    I have two friends who joined Apple on H1B after their PhD in 2014: around 125k base and 150k RSUs (so ~165k TC)
    Apple was really taking advantage of H1B and new grad ignoring the market
    Feb 20 3
    • Oath
      nerdsRule!

      Oath

      BIO
      hit me up if you’re hiring. I am strong in algorithms and decent at development skills. Will try my best to get you your referral bonus, hate Verizon!
      nerdsRule!more
      what company doesn’t ? G always trying to lowball people especially new grads
      Feb 20
    • Microsoft hooters
      Microsoft does it worse. Most of PhDs join as level 60 with some joining as 61. Google and Facebook are the two companies who like PhDs.
      Feb 20
    • Apple industry
      OP
      Well, I hear google and Facebook lowball their data scientist new grad PhDs hard except for the really good ones. Software engineering is where the TC is at.
      Feb 20
  • Salesforce west-coast
    To give you another data point - I know a PhD grad from last year, who got an offer from Apple for ~ 170k base + ~320 K stocks over 4 years. Again, one of the main factors was competing offers
    Feb 18 1
    • Apple industry
      OP
      What role was that person offered? I think TC also depends on the kind of role. Also do you know what the level of the role was? ICT3 or ICT4?
      Feb 18
  • Amazon QXHX15
    Your comp seems about right if you are an SDE. I don’t think having a PhD helps you with an higher pay unless your research expertise was in a niche field that the company badly needs. I knew come computer vision folks from top schools who published in top confs like CVPR got super high pay from google and Apple for their autonomous car projects two years ago.
    Feb 18 1
    • Apple industry
      OP
      My research work sort of aligns with my current position in terms of mathematical and computational techniques. But it’s definitely not a role that Apple badly needs and I am not a superstar either :)
      Feb 18
  • Capital One / Eng xmandemon
    Did you say 25k for RsUs? Dude normal engineering guys get atleast 100k.
    Feb 18 1