Game workers unite! : are you for or against unions?

Riot Games lMNu47
Jun 27 238 Comments

What are your thoughts on unions in gaming? There’s been more talk recently at riot regarding all the stuff going on at our company.

There’s been more and more gaming company issues around sexual harassment or workplace abuse — what do you think? Will it happen? Are unions good or bad?

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TOP 238 Comments
  • Google Yottobyte
    I think unions are excellent ways to take the competitive edge away from bleeding edge companies. I hope all my competitors unionize.
    Jun 27 38
    • Intel ghakapi
      But they don’t need to in order to get their paycheck while a private sector worker actually works in a meritocracy. I appreciate teachers charity work they put in, but it isn’t required or rewarded. That’s why innovation dies with unions.
      Jun 28
    • LinkedIn faghast
      @JVev04 After reading your whole article, the summary is: "teaching can be up to a 2200 hour/year (42 hr/week) job, if you're very dedicated!"

      That doesn't change anyone's opinions. Teachers are still paid far more than the average full time worker.

      And just like the gaming industry, there are millions of people, especially women, that would happily take less pay for more flexible hours and getting to work with children all day. I've got several relatives like that.

      There's nothing wrong with teachers, or being a teacher. The world needs them. But it's a job lots of people want to do.

      Teachers I know *hate* the teachers union. Some of the best teachers get laid off during budget cuts because they're new. Some terrible teachers keep mistreating children because it's impossible to fire them. Teachers would have better jobs without unions, because they'd have incentives, and better co-workers.
      Jun 28
    • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
      Microsoft ghiyf, are you seriously considering engineers with 200K salaries working class???
      Jun 29
    • Intel ghakapi
      Making $200K in the Bay Area gives you the same quality of life as $70K in most of the country- probably renting, at most you own a 1200 sq ft home in an area with suspect public schooling.
      Jun 29
    • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
      Ghakapi, you can believe that if you want to. But in most of the country people working to 70K have much shittier benefits, have to pay for their own lunches, quality of schools are much worse and childcare cost lower, but not proportionally lower. Also the cost of living doesn’t impact 401k, and safety of hoods. Food and clothes doesn’t cost 2.5 times less there than in SV.
      Also many blue collar workers have to do physical work in not very safe conditions for their health.
      In Bay area severance you get when you’re fired is 2-3 months salaries if there was no gross misconduct, while a worker of Amazon’s fulfillment center gets 2 weeks in most cases.
      Also there are many people in Bay Area making 70K, for example, a cashier in Whole Foods makes $18 an hour, and Grocery team lead makes 74K.
      Do you really want to compare yourself with them?
      Jun 29
    • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
      Not to mention that Intel is maybe among 5% companies in the country having sophisticated transgender and LGBTQ policies. People are getting fired left and right for being gays or for pure favoritism reasons.
      Jun 29
    • Intel ghakapi
      I can’t tell if you are proving my point for me or looking like an idiot accidentally. People outside CA making $70K are paying $50K less in taxes, living in larger sq footage home on larger acreage, have less crime, and generally have more freedom than in the fascist Bay Area where 92% of people think alike.

      Little lesson for you Bay Area folks living in a bubble- nobody gives a fuck about your lifestyle or skin color in the middle of the country as long as you do your job well.
      Jun 29
    • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
      What point am I proving? That poor sweet Californian engineers are as abused and harassed as cashiers and factory workers?
      Oooh, of course, go make yourself a little union, and go on strike and stop coding to achieve gender equality in Intel. Cause the rest of the country will be so compassionate to you.
      Jun 30
    • Intel ghakapi
      Again, you clearly have never been to the middle of the country, where there’s a lot more entrepreneurial spirit in creating your own business vs the hordes of SWE that mindlessly code every day.
      Jun 30
    • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
      How is that connected to labor unions?
      Jun 30
  • Databricks / Data
    data4u

    Databricks Data

    PRE
    500 Startups
    data4umore
    Unions are for low skilled work, if I’m not happy at my current place and I have marketable skill set I’ll go somewhere else.

    But I suck at leetcode that’s another problem...
    Jun 27 11
    • Databricks / Data
      data4u

      Databricks Data

      PRE
      500 Startups
      data4umore
      No but that’s more of a purely economics problem, high supply of people low demand of positions. Essentially one in the same.
      Jun 27
    • Riot Games zzzzzzz10
      They aren’t low paid either. Software engineers start at pay levels that many professional fields never reach because of lack of supply. Artists and designers still make a lot vs non software fields.
      Jun 27
    • New / Eng JVev04
      Would you characterize NBA, MLB and NFL players as “low skill” workers? Unions work pretty damn well for them.

      That being said, tech workers tend to enjoy enough leverage in terms of being fairly difficult to replace that they certainly stand to gain less than highly exploited workers. But if Learn To Code initiatives are ever successful in their ultimate goal of undermining the bargaining power of coders, unions will become more attractive.

      But even if they’re not critical to sustain a living wage, unions are very useful for ensuring fair and equitable treatment of workers, limiting “crunch,” resisting wage gaps and sexual harassment, etc.
      Jun 27
    • Intel ghakapi
      Lol, citing people who receive brain damage as a good example is solid shit.

      How do the unions work out for the 99.9999% of sports players who don’t make the big leagues?
      Jun 27
    • New / Eng JVev04
      NBA and MLB don’t get brain damage, but some of the biggest beneficiaries of professional athletic unions are low end players on the periphery.

      Also, for someone who (presumably) believes unions are bad because they will prevent underperformers being fired, aren’t you undermining your own argument a bit by pointing out that there still exists a large pool of workers who still get fired or don’t get hired in the unionized industry?
      Jun 27
    • New / Eng JVev04
      “If unions are so great then why are things so bad for people who aren’t part of a union? Checkmate, libs!”
      Jun 27
    • Seagate toti420
      Unions are not always good and they are not always bad. I think unions make a lot of sense for teachers, nurses, police officers just to name a few, but not for engineers. Without unions, hospitals would assign more than 8 patients per nurse which is horrible for both nurses and patients. World is not black and white.
      Jun 27
    • Intel ghakapi
      Public sector unions are the biggest problem America faces today. It’s going to bankrupt a host of states. The quid pro quo for their donations mean private sector workers will lose.

      Private sector unions are dumb in vast majority of cases, but at least with recent SCOTUS rulings there is volition in membership.
      Jun 28
    • New / Eng JVev04
      Yeah, the thing that’s been on a steady decline for 40 years is definitely causing the crises that have increased over the past 40 years. Very good analysis, ghakapi, glad to see Intel is still hiring the best and brightest.
      Jun 28
    • Intel ghakapi
      You clearly haven’t studied the public sector union trend and have it confused with private sector union membership rates. Public sector union membership has increased by 25% over the last 40 years.

      https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/02/20/for-american-unions-membership-trails-far-behind-public-support/
      Jun 28
  • Riot Games zPEd38
    I don't see any upside to a union. We have a hard enough time getting rid of under performers as is
    Jun 27 6
    • Microsoft ghjyf
      The industry bleeds talent because pay and benefits are shit.
      Jun 27
    • Facebook
      Poooo

      Facebook

      BIO
      _
      Poooomore
      Come to FB, we're hiring. DM me and send me your resume.
      Jun 27
    • Twitter wtMV57
      Twitter too
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft ghjyf
      I was referring to AAA studio I worked at prior to MS ... but yea, you guys def pay more than MS.
      Jun 27
    • Uber / Eng po0
      Come to Uber, DM me
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      Gaming pays less than FAANG because of the "I want to work in gaming" premium. Same reason you can often make more programming at a hedge fund. You get paid less for jobs everyone wants to do.
      Jun 27
  • Riot Games V67jK
    Against, and really wish the push for these would just go away already. The approach (pushing “us vs them” and painting leadership as villains narrative) is really toxic, disruptive and needs to stop.
    Jun 27 4
    • Microsoft ghjyf
      If pay and benefits were as good as the rest of tech, there would be no push.
      Jun 27
    • Amazon / Eng eztP64
      If leadership stopped acting as villains then perhaps the narrative would change. When it comes down to it though, any employee is just a cog in the machine. They'll buy a new cog and slot it in without thinking about it for a second.
      Jun 27
    • Riot Games .l
      They're not acting like villains though
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn / Eng CarpetCog
      Perhaps if the developers concerned stopped accepting "villainous" leadership as somehow a more acceptable cost of working at a game-dev company than at other tech companies... just a thought...
      Jun 27
  • Facebook Omzh16
    Absolutely they should unionize. Games (and tech like FB, Google, etc) is built off the backs of contingent workers who are intentionally kept from having benefits and adequate pay. If every single one of them quit right this second, the industry would grind to a halt. This industry doesn’t exist without them, and that the workers are starting to realize that rules and I wish them nothing but the best. They deserve better, and everyone deserves a union (or any group) who has their interests in mind instead of some higher up that has no interest in them.
    Jun 27 22
    • Ellucian / Consultant not.a.bot
      What does the profit of a company have to do with your skillset? If Facebook made $10 or $10 billion you'd still be performing a low skilled job. If you feel your skillset is as valuable as you claim, go test the marketplace.
      Jun 27
    • Facebook Omzh16
      Yeah dude Facebook fucking sucks. None of this stuff I’ve said is good, and it’s a problem that runs deep in Facebook.
      Jun 27
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      No, but you patted yourself on the back about Facebook and nobody gives a fuck.

      You clearly have a tenuous grasp on the myriad factors affecting the value of a given skillset and FAANG employment doesn't negate that shortcoming.
      Jun 27
    • Facebook Omzh16
      None of the Facebook Ad infrastructure exists without the “low skilled” contingent workers. That’s what I’m telling you. Facebook doesn’t make money unless they have an entire workforce that’s underpaid.

      Like, Facebook’s internal guidelines talk about people who are “core” to the business being the only ones outsourced. Ads are the big business Facebook has, and yet the majority of ads runs on underpaid, outsourced workers. They are exploiting people, by their own definitions, so that they can make money.

      That’s the difference between some shitty gaming forum run by moderators that makes just enough money in donations and ads to keep the lights on and a multi billion dollar corporation who wants so badly for automation to come, but instead uses smoke and mirrors to hide the actual human workers that allow for that “automation” to happen.
      Jun 27
    • Facebook Omzh16
      And the reason why people use the idea of a hypothetical “walk out” is to show who is actually worth something at a company.

      If Zuckerberg leaves and doesn’t come back right now, whatever. What actually changes for the company? Does Facebook, as a social platform and ad platform, suddenly shrivel up? No.

      If every contingent worker just in ads leaves right now, the whole thing falls apart. They’re no longer making money. They no longer have a useable, workable ad platform.

      The workers are what actually makes things work at these places, not some CEO. A union allows them to collect their power and use it to better themselves and get closer to a level playing field that acknowledges their power.
      Jun 27
    • Ellucian / Consultant not.a.bot
      I'm sorry to say this but the position you keep touting as the backbone and driving force for revenue at FB is in fact the most replaceable component. The amount of time, money and resources that are put into place to develop the platform itself is what drives the revenue and the ability to even provide a job for you to do. The investment of others, the technical skillset of others, the vision of others, is what drives FB revenue, NOT the forum moderators. You are not as important as you think you are. I conclude this rant by echoing the sentiment, FU Facebook.
      Jun 27
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      You're missing the point. Zuckerberg holds orders of magnitude more importance than any one of those people you insist are underpaid and supposedly crucial. How replaceable is Zuckerberg? A hell of a lot less replaceable than the people you've cited.

      As I said, the whole fucking contingent of contingent workers (see what I did there?) could walk out and I guaran-damn-tee you revenue doesn't grind to a halt the way you described.

      Zuckerberg's exodus would cause massive ripples, however. He also built the fucking place. He took on all the risk and responsibility. Without him, Facebook doesn't exist--he's a wealth generator. Wealth inequality sucks, but without the prospect of grand success, entrepreneurs are far less willing to take accept the terrific risk which is almost always involved in such ventures.

      It's hysterical to compare an entire functional area to any one resource, but I'm interested in hearing additional insight from the community re: this hypothetical.
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft specimen 🌮
      Let’s just give up on all this and get drunk and/or high.
      Jun 27
    • Uber / Eng hotboi
      This Facebook guy is delusional
      Jun 28
    • Uber / Eng hotboi
      Actually it’s brazenly obvious he/she is a contractor
      Jun 28
  • Riot Games zzzzzzz10
    The industry changes very fast and unions often make companies less able to react. No thanks.

    The states that have game companies also have among the strongest sexual harassment laws and penalties in the world, and sexual harassment is bad for business and team morale. No one wants sexual harassment, why would this be a worker vs management issue?

    Not sure why unions are needed to address that. There’s so much energy and effort on eliminating it. Everyone wants to.
    Jun 27 5
    • New / Eng JVev04
      > No one wants sexual harassment, why would this be a worker vs management issue?

      It’s a power hierarchy. Corporations are a top down petty dictatorship, where ultimately the corporate board get to call the shots. A worker is essentially unable to harass a manager because the manager has the power (vested in them from above) to fire them. A manager on the other hand can often use that power to get away with sexual harassment. That dynamic only flows one way, how could this be anything BUT a workers vs management issue?
      Jun 27
    • Riot Games zzzzzzz10
      Interesting viewpoint. That’s usually not how companies work. Boards usually have little or no power, other than to hire and fire the CEO.

      As for employees, they have no power over their boss, but they can sue and wreck reputations, even if they are in the wrong. The power dynamics are not very unequal.
      Jun 27
    • New / Eng JVev04
      Sure, boards rarely have to exercise their power, but that’s because CEOs are shareholders and share their interests. That’s still the ultimate, push comes to shove legal power though. A manager can fire a worker only because the board has invested authority in the CEO who has then delegated it. The amount of damages that workers can typically expect to win in lawsuits is piddling, check out stats with the EEOC, the employer wins overwhelmingly and usually damages are basically “lost wages and get your job back.” The power imbalance is immense.
      Jun 28
    • Riot Games zzzzzzz10
      Piddling? Like this? California harassment and retaliation liability is large. The liability to harass someone is in most cases larger than the liability if you hit them with a car and disabled them. Companies are extremely risk averse around anything harassment.

      https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2012/10/16/266775.htm
      Jun 28
    • New / Eng JVev04
      A few hundred million in payouts across the entire damn economy is like, nothing, mate! Look at the 25th highest payout, it’s only $1.2 million. Looks like there are merely double digit million dollar payouts each year.

      Look at some of these statistics: http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/addressing-sexual-harassment-in-the-workplace.aspx

      40 percent of women in fast food industry have experienced unwanted sexual advances. That’s millions of workers, yet only 7000 complaints are filed each year. That means the overwhelming majority of class are not reported at all. This indicates that despite ideologically (and financially) motivated rhetoric that highlights a handful of outliers, suing your employer for sexual harassment is simply not a viable option for most people most of the time.
      Jun 28
  • Oracle EUwH05
    Take your power and give it to others who you hope will act with your best interests in mind. Real smart.
    Jun 27 8
    • IBM / Eng WYmS28
      You're not "giving" power to anyone. You're utilizing collective bargaining. Something you can't do by yourself.

      BTW depending on how the union is structured, union members usually vote on the action and policies of the union.

      What kind of corporatist Kool aide have you been drinking?
      Jun 27
    • Facebook Omzh16
      Exactly, you’re using your power through the collective.

      Also, if you don’t have that collective, guess who already has power over you? Literally everyone higher up than you in the corporate ladder. You’re giving nothing up by pooling resources.
      Jun 27
    • First Republic Nadu
      Teacher’s unions are a perfect example. The rank and file teachers are forced into unions get shaken down for massive dues. A few fat cat union bosses then rake it into garbage bags and then hand it off to politicians who do zero for the teachers or the students. If anyone thinks it would be different for coders they are morons.
      Jun 27
    • IBM / Eng WYmS28
      First off no teacher is "forced" into a union they join voluntarily. In fact that would be illegal to make union membership a condition of employment.

      Secondly teachers just like any other union member maintains their voting power for the actions of the union. Don't like who is on the board? Vote them out.

      Thirdly: there's plenty of unions that do work well for the workers. Longshoremen do great because of unions, for example. Bus drivers, electricians, et cetera.
      Jun 27
    • Riot Games jadukn
      The NLRA allows employers and unions to enter into union-security agreements, which require all employees in a bargaining unit to become union members and begin paying union dues and fees within 30 days of being hired.

      An employee may object to union membership on religious grounds, but in that case, must pay an amount equal to dues to a nonreligious charitable organization

      https://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/rights/employer-union-rights-and-obligations
      Jun 27
    • IBM / Eng WYmS28
      Yeah except in 27 states those agreements are illegal
      Jun 27
    • Riot Games jadukn
      "No teacher is forced..." I guess some are forced after all yea? NLRB is a federal agency. So it is a legitimate concern, don't you think?
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      If you think a giant, abstract, distant bureaucracy that supposedly "represents" you because the guy you didn't vote for got elected to the board and then bribed to leave things broken is looking out for your best interest, then you're not smart enough to work in tech.

      Companies need their employees to be happy or else their competitors steal them, or worse, innovate faster and put them out of business. Unions don't need shit from their members, because they're entrenched there by law, just like the government. You have way more power without a union than with one.
      Jun 27
  • Google s8G1mY
    Honestly gaming is closer to entertainment than tech in terms of labor dynamics.

    Follow Hollywood's example and unionize.
    Jun 27 7
    • Microsoft conscience
      And then end up with per project gigs. Not a great idea.
      Jun 27
    • Google s8G1mY
      Are you saying that's not how the games industry works now?
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft conscience
      For the majority of those in professional game dev, that is not how it works
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft ghjyf
      Whenever a project ships, 1/2 the employees move on.
      Jun 27
    • Databricks / Data
      data4u

      Databricks Data

      PRE
      500 Startups
      data4umore
      This happens less now with Games as a Service now, QA/Artist/Etc just continue working on new content for the game
      Jun 27
    • Riot Games .l
      Terrible idea
      Jun 27
    • Hollywood has a good model for freelance. The difference between SAG work and non-SAG work is like night and day.
      Jun 28
  • New / IT netts
    Don't bring this into the tech industry please. I just want to work at my best and make the most money while doing so without worrying about everyone else.
    Jun 27 5
    • New / Mgmt
      FatNixon

      New Mgmt

      BIO
      Lt. Aldo Raine: You know something Uitivich? I think this just might be my masterpiece.
      FatNixonmore
      I love this dude!
      Peeps without political consciousness is what makes merikkka great!
      Jun 27
    • New / Design
      fk specism

      New Design

      PRE
      General Assembly
      fk specismmore
      This is a great example of the "I got mine, fuck you" mentality of the libertarians.
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      You clearly don't know any libertarians. They care a lot more about others than Democrats.
      Jun 27
    • New / Mgmt
      FatNixon

      New Mgmt

      BIO
      Lt. Aldo Raine: You know something Uitivich? I think this just might be my masterpiece.
      FatNixonmore
      Libertarians can t even agree to what libertArian is. Me myself and I we know what this is! It is the book lady in the book building. She lends books - ughh! - and calls your mom if you don’t bring the book - ughhh - back
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      Uh, did you watch the Democratic Party primary debates this week? There are dozens of people on stage who can't agree what being a Democrat is.

      Democrats were the party of the slave-owning South. Lincoln was a Republican.

      You tell me who doesn't know what they stand for.

      There is no ideological consistency in the two legacy parties. Libertarians are extremely ideologically consistent. That's why people with "flexible morals" who prefer tribal group think to logic and principles get so worked up about libertarians.
      Jun 28
  • Microsoft fafmftc
    Grow up, commies.
    Jun 27 1
  • Amazon bandersnatch
    Those of you who are software engineers in gaming don't need to unionize, but you should realize that your skills are more valuable on the open market than most game companies recognize. Historically, gaming companies have underpaid for technical skills, presumably because nerds who love games are willing to work for less money to work in the industry. Though, that's just speculation. One result of that is that the industry pays less as a whole and is able to get away with fewer benefits and/or worse treatment of employees.
    Jun 27 0
  • IBM / Eng WYmS28
    Generally speaking it is good to have unions when a skillset is a commodity, economically speaking. When a skillset is common and there isn't a labor supply problem (that is the number of available workers meets or exceeds the number of available jobs) then unions are needed to force the hand of the employer.

    When a skillset is scarce you don't need unions as much because market forces favor the worker. If he doesn't like his working conditions he can vote with his feet (something he can't as easily do when his skills are a commodity).

    In the subject of rather video game workers need a union: I think it's a well known fact that there's a lot more people wanting to work in the games industry than the games industry needs. That is, the labor is a commodity. So yes a union for video games workers makes perfect sense.
    Jun 27 7
    • Excellent rationale.
      Jun 27
    • Sony / Eng ImTheBest
      Lol you have zero clue what you are talking about. I am 12 year veteran graphics programmer in games, my skillset is not a commodity. There are literally several hundred people in the world that can do my job at the skill level required for cutting edge work on large AAA game projects that define game technology.

      Do you know how difficult it is to retain and find a world class character artist or designer who works on the next Kratos, Nathan Drake, Master Chief, etc.? This is not a "commodity" skill. This is something very few people in the world can do. And trust me they are paid handsomely for it.
      Jun 27
    • IBM / Eng WYmS28
      @sony you may be in the subset of video game workers that isn't a commodity. But that doesn't mean the industry at large doesn't view their workers as a commodity. There's already subsets who have unionized: voice actors. I remember that the video game "life is strange 2" had to be put on hold because one of the main character's voice actors was actively in a strike for her union.
      Jun 27
    • Riot Games jadukn
      Many people may want to work in the games industry, but that doesn't mean that they possess the necessary skill to create a AAA experience for players.
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft specimen 🌮
      All of your skills are of more value outside of games.
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      You're missing an important part of the definition of the word 'commodity'. It means something that is interchangeable. Every one is the same. Like 1 pound of gold is the same as another pound of gold. One gallon of water is equal to another.

      You might think of workers in some jobs that way, but programmers are not interchangeable. Some are 10x more effective than others. They won't be a commodity for as long as that's true, no matter how much supply there is.
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      Also, don't buy complaints from game workers. They're in one of two scenarios:

      1) They could get a better job somewhere else, e.g. a non-gaming tech company, which would pay them better and have better WLB. But they love the gaming industry, so they're happier with lower pay and longer hours. That's great, but you don't get to complain.

      2) They don't have the skills to get a better job, so they are getting paid a lot, per hour, compared to their other options. They're still generally making more than the non-tech world. Be jealous of the rest of Blind, sure, but you're doing better than most of your high school classmates. Get some perspective.
      Jun 27
  • Oracle / Eng
    retardd

    Oracle Eng

    PRE
    Walmart
    retarddmore
    Honestly, if you feel that you're compensated at a below market value, you probably should just leave for a better opportunity. Union don't do you any benefit. Unless there's a monopoly in your industry. Then it's another problem.
    Jun 27 0
  • Expedia / IT NewbSDE
    Unions destroyed the US auto industry and gave the competitive edge to other countries. US companies would just outsource the work more than they do now.
    Jun 27 0
  • New / Eng
    qPKU33

    New Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    qPKU33more
    Against forced.unionism. Forcing people to join and pay for unions as a condition of employment is disgusting.
    Jun 27 6
    • IBM / Eng WYmS28
      Yes forced is bad. But unions in general aren't bad. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft specimen 🌮
      I want to live in society, but don’t force me to help fund all the stuff like roads, cops, and k12. DISGUSTING!
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      Because being forced into a union is the reason we are able to teach, police, and build roads...?
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft specimen 🌮
      It was analogy. We are forced into society but we benefit from it. You can view it as sick, if you’d like, but it’s a slippery slope.
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft specimen 🌮
      Forced unionization is no more evil than forced citizenship and taxation. If you’re libertarian, you’d agree and hold consistent views, but also be an idiot.
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      We're not "forced into society". That's absurd. Your analogy doesn't work.

      Forced taxation is indeed evil. We fought a war against England over it. An idiot is someone who thinks he can steal money from his neighbor as long as he gets a majority of the houses on the block to vote that it's okay.
      Jun 28
  • Amazon / Mgmt palmface
    unions are unnecessary to address the issues you mentioned as those are already covered by existing laws.

    are there any other goals for said union?
    Jun 27 2
    • First Republic Nadu
      Sure and they’re always the same: Shake down workers, self deal, buy and sell influence.
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft specimen 🌮
      First Republic is going off of 1920s capitalist propaganda.....
      Jun 28
  • Amazon / Eng
    QLLw43

    Amazon Eng

    PRE
    Comscore, Inc.
    QLLw43more
    Gamers rise up!
    Jun 27 1
    • New / Product
      B0ngzilla

      New Product

      PRE
      Pegasystems, Robert Half
      BIO
      I’m Canadian, but then I got better.
      B0ngzillamore
      We really live in a society smh
      Jun 27
  • Proactis / Eng
    SwiftUIGuy

    Proactis Eng

    PRE
    Harris
    BIO
    Software Test Engineer attempting to transition to iOS Engineer.
    SwiftUIGuymore
    I’m against unions but if that’s the only way for game developers to be treated and compensated fairly then I’m for it.
    Jun 27 1
    • First Republic Nadu
      Fairly is what the market will bear. Anything else is factually self delusion.
      Jun 27
  • Uber / Eng po0
    Who the fuck is against unions? I hear game engineers have terrible wlb. Is that true?
    Jun 27 4
    • EA Mk55hd
      True
      Jun 27
    • Wizards of the Coast aaaabaa
      Yes but game developers are also the biggest bootlickers in tech.
      Jun 27
    • First Republic Nadu
      RSUs or DMV WLB. Choose wisely because you can’t have both.
      Jun 27
    • Wizards of the Coast aaaabaa
      In games you can't have either
      Jun 27
  • Unions are always a good thing. Workers rights are very important, especially in a field where abuse is commonplace.

    I don't trust any anti-union folk. Anyone who wants to perpetuate worker abuses is not a friend in the industry
    Jun 28 5
    • McKesson / IT
      smilidon

      McKesson IT

      PRE
      Apex Systems
      BIO
      I analyze technical stuff.
      smilidonmore
      Detroit and literally all of Michigan vehemently disagrees. Modern unions are more organized crime and less "workers rights". If you voluntarily pay more dues you can show up to work drunk or high and always count on having a paid day off and I'd they do fire you the unions got you so long as you voluntarily pay 10% instead of the required 5.

      Pretty much just paying protection money.
      Jun 28
    • Lol Detroit's problem is offshore outsourcing. This was done to go areas where it is easier to exploit labor.

      Also, citation needed. I literally don't believe you.
      Jun 28
    • McKesson / IT
      smilidon

      McKesson IT

      PRE
      Apex Systems
      BIO
      I analyze technical stuff.
      smilidonmore
      I guess you've never actually worked in a union shop then lol I was Ford IT for a while and we were considered "management" because we always fought to not be a part of that UAW nightmare and actually be paid what we were worth based on knowledge and performance and not some nonsensical formula based on seniority which makes no sense and won't take into account any other factors.

      You can Google it and read for yourself, the teachers union is so strong in Michigan and such a strangle hold that more people won the Michigan lottery jackpot last year (6) than teachers who were actually fired (4) in the entire states public education system and every single one of those only got fired because they were convicted of statutory rape. So the only way to get fired as a teacher is to sleep with a student and get prosecuted for it.

      In the UAW and people who work on and around it it is common knowledge and you are told that if you are a shit employee you better voluntarily increase your union contributions. When I would go down to the assembly lines to fix a printer or PC or something there were people who "inspected the line" which really just meant thier job was no longer needed due to automation or efficiencies but the u ions wouldn't let them be relocated or replaced so they then got a chair and sat there and stared at car parts as they went by. On more than one occasion I saw these "inspectors" sleeping.

      There is a reason Japanese auto workers make the same or more on average than US ones and yet the cars even after tarrifs are 10-15k less.
      Jun 28
    • 1) unions are optional. If you don't think you need someone having your back, that's fine; but it's kinda silly to be mad that other people prefer that safety net. Your anecdotal experiences don't discredit the common worker abuses in non-union industries.

      2) it just sounds like you fell for anti-union propaganda. Everything you're stating is rooted in half-truths and misuses of statistics.
      Jun 28
    • McKesson / IT
      smilidon

      McKesson IT

      PRE
      Apex Systems
      BIO
      I analyze technical stuff.
      smilidonmore
      It was a national headline that more people won the Michigan lottery than teachers who were fired and none of the ones fired were for performance reasons. You mean to tell me in a state of 10 million people which is bigger than many countries they didn't have one teacher in any school that was too bad at their job to be let go? That's nonsensicle bullshit and you know it.

      And as far as the UAW I don't need to believe anything as I saw it with my own eyes for years. And you can read how the pay and promotion system works for the UAW online, the ONLY thing that matters is seniority, that literally should be the only thing that doesn't matter. And it's only been in the law few years since right to work passed there, with huge support btw, that you can finally opt out of being in the union. Just be prepared to have your car windows broken and people ignore you all day every day. Because again they used organized crime tactics.
      Jun 28
  • Nvidia zVEC05
    I used to work at a union shop doing software for aerospace. It was terrible. It was before the court allowed us to not pay dues, so my already low TC was sapped for another $20K a year to pay dues.

    Racism, sexual harassment & abuse was FAR worse. Because the company couldn’t just fire the abusers. Especially since those doing the harassment & abusing were higher ups or well connected with the union. So they were extra invincible. If you challenged them you’d find your hours cut or dues raised.

    Merit & talent didn’t matter, only how senior & politically connected you were. As a young ambitious developer there was nothing I could do to improve my pay, position, or influence. New ideas that would make processes better were rejected because they would upset the existing order & hierarchy.

    I’ve sworn when I quote that I will NEVER work in a union again. Don’t buy into the lies. Unions only make the problems you see worse.
    Jun 27 4
    • IBM / Eng WYmS28
      Yeah this doesn't sound like a real story: $20k for union dues? I doubt that.
      Jun 27
    • Proactis / Eng
      SwiftUIGuy

      Proactis Eng

      PRE
      Harris
      BIO
      Software Test Engineer attempting to transition to iOS Engineer.
      SwiftUIGuymore
      I doubt that also. I’ve never heard of union dues being anywhere close to 20k a year. Maybe 5k but that’s even pushing it.
      Jun 27
    • McKesson / IT
      smilidon

      McKesson IT

      PRE
      Apex Systems
      BIO
      I analyze technical stuff.
      smilidonmore
      They are a percentage of pay so of he was well paid then that is possible.
      Jun 27
    • Nvidia zVEC05
      They were pay based, there were extra dues on stock awards because they were historically seen as a “management” perk, due to a weird historical reasons the software org got stock awards. And being half the age of most of my coworkers even a modest award during a record year blew out the dues.

      All the strange rules & agreements that impact you is just another reason to avoid unions.
      Jun 27
  • Microsoft conscience
    For unions in general. Unfortunately Game Workers Unite is a Marxist political slacktivism org masquerading as a union. For better results, find a union that cares about workers and workers issues more than this garbage.
    Jun 27 8
    • First Republic Nadu
      Like say in gubment...
      Jun 27
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      Lol, that's a good one.

      Trolling, right?

      Oh, not trolling? Woooooow...

      The idea that unions care more about workers than employers is laughable. Nobody cares about the employees and people should just come to terms with that and let go of those 10-ply sensitivities.
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft specimen 🌮
      Union representation is made up of employees who are elected......
      Jun 27
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      And yet, unions operate like rackets, punishing those who don't wish to participate in collective bargaining. At their absolute best, unions simply negotiate on behalf of those who won't negotiate for themselves.

      I don't need anyone negotiating on my behalf; my compensation and working conditions are my own business. A union negatively impacts my bottom line against my will.
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft specimen 🌮
      I was a scab for a year at telecommunications company and nobody seemed to care. I got promoted. My dad and brother in law are both union representatives. Your claims don’t match my experience. You are selfish. Probably why you work in finance to begin with.
      Jun 28
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      I am selfish? Yes, proudly so.

      You've made a pretty ridiculous mistake, though, assuming that I work in finance. I work in corporate IT. The corporation conducts business related to finance.
      Jun 28
    • Microsoft specimen 🌮
      Oh, you got me! So “ridiculous” of me. Have fun living with yourself and navigating your relationships while lacking empathy and perspective. Selfishness is never problematic 😬
      Jun 28
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      Being selfish isn't tantamount to lacking empathy or perspective.

      Humans are inherently selfish creatures; everything you do is driven by your desire to be happy. But you dress it up as something else and beat around the bush about it.

      Altruism is a myth and that's not difficult to prove.

      Once again, you know nothing about me or my experience. And from the way you're talking, you don't even merit this reply.
      Jun 28
  • New BIvv71
    Unions aren't going to work when there's 10 kids ready to work for whatever studio.
    Jun 27 3
    • IBM / Eng WYmS28
      Except this is exactly when unions are most needed. When labor is a commodity. That's why there's laws in place that make it harder to fire workers for unionizing.
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft magic8
      Yes, this is the whole point of unions. So much misunderstanding on this whole thread.
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      The laws favor unions. If you repealed all union-related legislation, unionization rates would plummet even faster. Common misconception.
      Jun 27
  • Microsoft blinkd182
    The right solution is to have game companies treat you like you work at a tech company.
    Jun 27 3
    • Microsoft / Design Tr41nwr3k
      Which you do...
      Jun 27
    • Microsoft blinkd182
      I am now an ar/vr engineer and get paid way more than I did at msft, except I’m basically a game developer.

      I’d love to work in the games industry but it just makes no sense. I instead make indie games on my own time.

      It’s like they treat game developers like shit because it’s something you really want to do.
      Jun 27
    • Activision Blizzard / Design Metzen
      They don’t pay engineers less just because. It is because our margins are lower, we just don’t make enough money to pay more than we do. If you have 20 devs, sell a game for $40, take 3 years to make that game, and sell 100K copies (a big success, generally) you probably will hardly break even. And when the industry raises prices, or adds services, gamers revolt.

      Games just got too big too fast. Destiny 2 was a $500M project, insane. These insane bars we put on ourselves is ruining this industry.
      Jun 28
  • Intuit Snide_Wolf
    All workers all unions all the time. Power to the soviets!
    Jun 27 0
  • Netflix mr.clippy
    Just give us half life 3 already.
    Jun 27 0
  • First Republic Nadu
    Only the stupidest would want a union in technology.
    Jun 27 0
  • IBM / Eng WYmS28
    If computer science education ever becomes as popular as majors like "communication" then you would see the supply side dip in favor of the employers.....and suddenly software developers would start to become a commodity.

    The only reason software developers don't "need" unions is simply because there aren't enough of us to go around.
    Jun 27 4
    • Infosys / Consultant zingtwo
      This is some what true in India where the are a large number of graduates in computer science and engineering in general
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      You're missing an important part of the definition of the word 'commodity'. It means something that is interchangeable. Every one is the same. Like 1 pound of gold is the same as another pound of gold. One gallon of water is equal to another.

      You might think of workers in some jobs that way, but programmers are not interchangeable. Some are 10x more effective than others. They won't be a commodity for as long as that's true, no matter how much supply there is.
      Jun 27
    • IBM / Eng WYmS28
      You don't think there's such a thing as a 10x longshoreman? Or a 10x teacher? Just because there's varying skill levels does not mean the profession isn't a commodity
      Jun 27
    • LinkedIn faghast
      Yes, it does mean that. Words have definitions. If they're not interchangeable, they're not a commodity.

      You can ask why some professions are more unionized than others, but if workers do not meet the definition of 'commodity' then they're not commodities.
      Jun 28
  • Microsoft x0x
    This is sad. You know Microsoft have game studios right? We pay market rate across teams. So whether you work for Office or Xbox, you get good $$$.
    Jun 27 1
    • Microsoft ghjyf
      Promotions are different across groups though. Progression is slower at the studios because it’s the most competitive in regards to skills. Get promoted in Xbox .org, then move to studios 👌🏼
      Jun 27
  • Microsoft magic8
    The game industry is more than just swe, there is a lot of exploited artists, designers and qa folks as well. Of course everyone here with amazing companies paying them amazing salaries are against unions. You should try attending GDC and sit on some of the round tables. The middle tier companies who don’t offer amazing TC packages, demands their employees to work weekends or else they will fire them or refuse to credit them for their years of work is very heart breaking. To just say, up and leave is not always an option. Humans have family, obligations, and other important things in their lives that might prevent them from moving to the Bay Area for amazing benefits like not being exploited and sexually harassed. It’s not only about money.
    Jun 27 0
  • Riot Games ecJU03
    Lol. I’m curious to know how many of the folks in support of unions have ever been part of one. I’ve been in two entertainment based unions during my career and I find them to be pretty garbage. The dues are stupid and you don’t get even half of what you’d expect. Having a middle layer that’s meant to “represent” you only obfuscates your voice and ability to advocate for your own career. In my experience, unions pull down the average and fiercely protect mediocrity in the name of your average everyday employee. They lower the bar of acceptable behavior / performance in their attempt to level the playing field.
    Jul 2 3
    • AT&T / Eng
      DDM2K

      AT&T Eng

      PRE
      Optum, Windstream, AT&T, Verizon
      DDM2Kmore
      CWA District 3, thanks.

      The funny part is you think your individual voice matters. There are shitty unions out there, probably made up of people who think their individual voice matters.

      Effective unions can get your job back when termination was too severe a punishment for something that caused the company no appreciable loss.

      Unions simply aren’t in line with how you think the world works. They protect people who want to stay in a trade for their whole life, without a reduction in benefits or pay due to budget cuts.

      Seems you’ve been successfully fleeced into believing otherwise, you’ve actually been tricked into agreeing to provide increasing value for flat, stagnant pay.

      Your individual voice means squat. All you have the power to do, as an individual, is leave. Big man, you are! Anyone can leave. Organized labor lets good employees stay at good companies despite having a manager who’s a bad apple.

      It is only the threat of the department-wide “work stoppage” that has any teeth in negotiating. Even acting alone with only an attorney, you will quickly run out of money against several staff attorneys on payroll to handle exactly people like yourself.

      The looming question, I’m sure, is “why would you EVER stay at a company when you have to fight that hard to keep your job?” A lot of union shops are also shops that have milestone retirement benefits at 25, 30 years. Much harassment has been targeted at employees who are nearing those milestones to defraud them of what they are about to receive.

      Pay an hour of your rate per two weeks, and get the paperwork rolling when the SHTF... to protect your qualification for a pension and subsidized group healthcare into retirement. Sounds like a good deal to me.
      Jul 2
    • New / Eng JVev04
      The research on this subject is both extensive and irrefutable: labor unions not only increase compensation for the union member (average of 15% compared to non union if my memory serves me?), they also raise wages for the entire industry. Ie non union workers benefit from the existence of unions in the industry.

      Ultimately, capitalism is a struggle between labor and capital. Unions are labor’s greatest tool to claim a fairer share of the pie.
      Jul 5
    • New / Eng JVev04
      But if we’re swapping personal experience, I was just fired for organizing engineers around a couple of basic demands that management was neglecting. Despite being the longest tenured employee at the company and widely respected and liked by my peers, I was fired. Without a union I had zero protection against this retaliatory action.

      So I’m pretty sure that for every mediocre worker who keeps their job because of a union, there is a good employee who gets fired stupidly or unfairly without a union.

      Also, think about managers you’ve had: do you really think management is effective at accurately actual contributions? All too easy to diagnose as mediocre an employee who makes you feel stupid or promote an idiot who is pliable and makes you feel smart. So not super convinced with the whole “it’s too hard to fire bad workers” argument.
      Jul 5
  • Google / Eng
    Mr TK

    Google Eng

    PRE
    Google
    BIO
    Oracle
    Mr TKmore
    Is this occuring at EA? I want to recruit some of their security talent.
    Jun 27 1
  • Uber / Eng
    @w@

    Uber Eng

    PRE
    Capital One
    @w@more
    I'm fine with unions and standards and accountability for writing shit code that harms people. I'm not fine with lazy assholes using them to coast for the rest of their lives off the backs of others.
    Jun 27 0
  • AT&T / Eng
    DDM2K

    AT&T Eng

    PRE
    Optum, Windstream, AT&T, Verizon
    DDM2Kmore
    (What does harassment have to do with unions?)

    You don’t get to unionize without first having some sort of geographic monopoly or ginormous market share that can’t be easily taken away from you.

    The unions come in when everyone’s $40/hour job is threatened to be amateurized, broken down into four $10/hour jobs (because somehow that makes sense to them) and outsourced.

    Haven’t seen a US software company, let alone specifically a gaming company unionize. If you want to, though, AT&T is hiring - www.att.jobs - positions to troubleshoot the network in the field, hang cable, or bury wire.
    Jun 30 2
    • Riot Games nxqj68jh
      The millennial generation doesn’t trust organizations and institutions, so they want to make an institution to protect themselves, which they will trust for about an hour. Then they will need to make an advocacy group to protect themselves from the union. But then the advocacy group will do something that seems wrong and they will need to make an advocacy group to hold accountable the advocacy group holding accountable the union holding accountable the company.

      I’m not the most trusting person but I know if the company treats me badly I’ll just quit and work somewhere else. I guess that’s an outmoded traditional view.
      Jun 30
    • AT&T / Eng
      DDM2K

      AT&T Eng

      PRE
      Optum, Windstream, AT&T, Verizon
      DDM2Kmore
      I’ve seen cases on Blind where people will argue against unions, stating they’re for low-skill workers. And then some discussion about “professional organizations” are more suited for tech.

      Only one of those (hint: unions) will actually either prevent your firing or get your job BACK (with back pay). Let’s see the AMA step up for a doctor who was harassed on the job and fired without any damning evidence of wrongdoing. “That’s not what we do”.

      Millennials have truly been divided and conquered. Everyone’s split up defending their own cause related to whatever self-interest. They can’t organize for shit, except staging walk-outs for social causes that are none of their business, such as who is buying their company’s products. You wouldn’t catch any of them walking out for better pay, working conditions, or an unjust termination.

      Unless, of course, the person fired was in a protected group.
      Jun 30
  • Credit Karma KredtCarma
    A union isn’t going to fix problems with sexual harassment.
    Jun 27 2
    • LinkedIn faghast
      Yeah they will! That way you can be sexually harassed by your union boss instead!
      Jun 27
    • Credit Karma KredtCarma
      You mean “also”.
      Jun 28
  • Oath Atinlay2
    Exactly how are game workers mistreated?
    Jun 27 0
  • Groupon mBsJ01
    Thank you so much for asking this question. Yes, I believe unions are a good tool. The is no equity, gender gap, fantasy holiday policy in many places. We would all benefit from unionizing.
    Kickstarter employees paved the way. Hopefully others will be brave enough and follow.
    Jun 27 0
  • LinkedIn HcSq58
    If your company stinks to work at, go work at a different company. This is silicon valley in the middle of a boom, not a steel mill in 1910. Basing comp on anything other than market conditions creates dangerous inefficiencies. Unions only make sense in markets where one company dominates the labor market and it's impossible to find jobs elsewhere.
    Jun 27 2
    • Microsoft magic8
      Are you asking everyone to move to Silicon Valley?
      Jun 28
    • LinkedIn HcSq58
      My bad, OP works for Riot, which has HQ in West LA. I would argue that it's a similar situation there with lots of options with the likes of Amazon, Snap, etc. ('silicon beach'). But yes, you can certainly interview with silicon valley companies and get yourself a nice relocation package if you do well. Understandable if that's not your cup of tea, but doesn't seem like a good reason to extort your employer by forming a local labor Monopoly.
      Jun 28
  • Oath biow46g
    I'm totally for unions but I don't see how it would even be feasible for any kind of creative work such as graphic design, artistry, or software engineering.
    Jun 27 1
    • You've obviously never heard of the film industry lol
      Jun 28
  • Microsoft bKFl33
    I'm a gamer, can we unionize too? I demand that Riot games stops making mind-numbing mmos and makes a nice game with a deep single player campaign!
    Jun 27 1
    • Wizards of the Coast aaaabaa
      Riot doesn't make MMOs, "gamer".
      Jun 27
  • Infosys / Consultant zingtwo
    Rules and regulations that are enforced and tweaked at regular intervals are better than unions.
    Jun 27 1
    • IBM / Eng WYmS28
      If by rules and regulations you mean "laws" and "policies" then I agree. But you have to remember a lot of the NLRA benefits were brought about because of union lobbyists.
      Jun 27
  • Microsoft Bikuy
    And the grass is always greener...

    Be careful what you ask for. Once you enter a negotiatove bargaining group, you lose a lot of your individual legal rights. Speaking from experience of being in a union... spouse is still in one.
    Jun 27 0
  • New / Other barnfind
    Labor unions in the United States are organizations that represent workers in many industries recognized under US labor law. Their activity today centers on collective bargaining over wages, benefits, and working conditions for their membership, and on representing their members in disputes with management over violations of contract provisions. Larger trade unions also typically engage in lobbying activities and electioneering at the state and federal level.

    Most unions in the United States are aligned with one of two larger umbrella organizations: the AFL-CIOcreated in 1955, and the Change to Win Federationwhich split from the AFL-CIO in 2005. Both advocate policies and legislation on behalf of workers in the United States and Canada, and take an active role in politics. The AFL-CIO is especially concerned with global trade issues.

    In 2016, there were 14.6 million members in the U.S., down from 17.7 million in 1983. The percentage of workers belonging to a union in the United States (or total labor union "density") was 10.7%, compared to 20.1% in 1983.[1][2] Union membership in the private sector has fallen under 7%[3] — levels not seen since 1932. From a global perspective, in 2016 the US had the fifth lowest trade union density of the 36 OECD member nations.[2][4]

    In the 21st century the most prominent unions are among public sector employees such as city employees, government workers, teachers and police. Members of unions are disproportionately older, male, and residents of the Northeast, the Midwest, and California.[5] Union workers average 10-30% higher pay than non-union in the United States after controlling for individual, job, and labor market characteristics.[6]

    Although much smaller compared to their peak membership in the 1950s, American unions remain a political factor, both through mobilization of their own memberships and through coalitions with like-minded activist organizations around issues such as immigrant rights, trade policy, health care, and living wage campaigns. Of special concern are efforts by cities and states to reduce the pension obligations owed to unionized workers who retire in the future.[7]Republicans elected with Tea Party support in 2010, most notably Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin, have launched major efforts against public sector unions due in part to state government pension obligations (even though Wisconsin's state pension is 100% funded[8]) along with the allegation that the unions are too powerful.[9][10] The academic literature shows substantial evidence that labor unions reduce economic inequality.[11]Research indicates that rising income inequality in the United States is partially attributable to the decline of the labor movement and union membership.
    Jun 28 4
    • Oath Atinlay2
      🙄

      I can copy and paste!
      Jun 28
    • New / Other barnfind
      But can you read?
      Jun 28
    • New / Other barnfind
      🤯
      Jun 28
    • Oath Atinlay2
      I can think for myself too!
      Jun 28
  • Google gliz
    The next economic crash and lack of collective bargaining power for the techie will bring new insights to most of you when your company that sits on billions of dollars of cash lays you off to protect the shareholders but not the workers.
    Jul 5 0
  • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
    Hollywood actors have been unionized for years and yet their sexual harassment issues are far worse than any tech companies.

    Overall based on what I know about unions, they will:
    - make sure that harrassers won't get fired if they are union members
    - make sure that every underperformer is getting paid exactly a much as overperformer
    - get everyone on average, but equal benefits
    - make sure that abusers won’t get fired if they are union members (I have a friend who is an elected union leader at the factory, he complains all the time the he has to protect every single junkie from getting fired, even when he would gladly kick him/her out)

    Unions will not
    - protect gender equality if most of union members are men, as unions have to protect all their members
    - control performance or efficiency of the organization as again they have to protect all members from getting fired
    Jun 28 0
  • Hollywood's problems the roots of its sleezy history, not unions. The sex abuse comes from THE PRODUCERS ABUSING THE ACTORS, not the other way around. The #MeToo movement is a union effort.

    Also, what's your friends union called? I don't believe you.
    Jun 29 7
    • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
      And what did Hollywood actors unions do about years of abuse? Can’t name my friend’s union without exposing him. But that’s worker’s union in automotive industry.
      Jun 29
    • Because it's a freelance industry, those who publically named names would be blackballed by producers. The #MeToo movement happened because US culture was ready. In case you forgot, this was producers abusing actors. But exposed actors who were discovered to be abusers as well are now blackballed from union productions.

      Until I can aquire proof of what you say, I will assume your anecdotal evidence is a lie.
      Jun 29
    • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
      Again, it was not unions who helped. It was very expensive lawyers, not hired by unions.
      Jun 29
    • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
      You want me to expose my buddy to a total stranger hiding behind anonymity. And hiding behind anonymity myself, why do you think I care if you believe me or not?
      It’s not like we’re actually having public debates about whether to form a union or not. This whole community is anecdotal.
      Jun 29
    • When your primary source of evidence is anecdotal, it's kinda important for me to fact check it. Cuz I can just do this:

      My friend's cousin is in a union. She was being harassed by her boss. She went to the union rep and the boss got fired. Then she negotiated wages and got a competitive salary when she was previously struggling. Don't ask what union I'm referring to. But it totally happened. Because this totally happened you are wrong.

      And if you truly don't care if anyone believes you, why are you even here? Why not just write this all on a piece of paper and then burn it? I'm not asking for a debate, but you're making large claims that come off as a propagandic copy-pasta
      Jun 29
    • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
      Well, your story is very easy to believe if your friend’s cousin was a teacher and her boss principal wasn’t a union member. It’s like 30% of teacher’s union stories.
      Now if you told me a story how union got union member fired for harassment I would really doubt it.

      I am here for fun and TC info, just like 99% of other people here.
      Jun 29
    • Kaspersky Lab aye dais
      But I’m just wondering what do you think is going to happen if Intel developers go on strike? How long that strike should be for it to impact Intel business severely? And how quickly can Intel move US engineering operations over to their outsourcers and Bangalore?
      Cause strike is the only tool that union have.
      And how quickly do you think union leaders in IT start labor racketeering and turn into cartels?
      Jun 29
  • New / Design
    brumder

    New Design

    BIO
    3D artist...I do...um....art.
    brumdermore
    Unions aren't the way to go. We just have to demand to be treated better, as a whole.
    7d 2
    • AT&T / Eng
      DDM2K

      AT&T Eng

      PRE
      Optum, Windstream, AT&T, Verizon
      DDM2Kmore
      Falls on deaf ears unless you literally walk out and halt production until your demands are met.

      What about this isn’t making sense? Verbal demands get ignored.
      6d
    • New / Design
      brumder

      New Design

      BIO
      3D artist...I do...um....art.
      brumdermore
      No they aren't. They aren't being made verbal. Not to the people that can make a change. People come on here or have public forms between peers. There's so much time and energy spent, venting, complaining... but when it's time to actually speak, nobody says a word. Partially because of the fear of being replaced, because games is an industry that everyone wants to be a part of. The other part is... people are just to scared to speak on general. There aren't alot of head strong and outspoken people in this industry. The funny part is, the one's who are...a treated much better. The only way TO change is a walk out. I've said it before at forms and what not. I've also had multiple jobs where I've been part of a union. The one thing unions might change is overtime pay. It won't help with work-life balance, work conditions, ect. When you're a salaried worker tho...you get what you get and hopefully you get a bonus.
      The fact is, like I said previously, as a whole, the industry needs to demand to be treated better. Every person, every studio. From leads to QA. If not every studio, all the bigger AAA ones.
      6d
  • McKesson / IT
    smilidon

    McKesson IT

    PRE
    Apex Systems
    BIO
    I analyze technical stuff.
    smilidonmore
    You can't unionize tech, every job is vastly different from the other and unless your going to make a different "local" for each type of tech, which would negate any collective bargaining you might hope to gain then it's useless. We aren't cogs in a wheel in tech, each worker is not equal to the other, people with the same job codes have vastly different responsibilities and job requirements. Unions work for factories and jobs where everyone more or less does the same thing, not where each team has vastly different responsibilities and roles front he other. No one would be able to even remotely adequately represent even half the tech workers in any company and giving them all the same pay and benefits would be a sure way to lose all the valuable workers to competitors.
    Jun 27 2
    • IBM / Eng WYmS28
      Yes and no. Yes "tech" is not all the same job. But software engineer can be called a profession even if it varies from one to another. Just the same as "doctor" can apply to an OBGYN the same as it does to your pediatrician.
      Jun 27
    • McKesson / IT
      smilidon

      McKesson IT

      PRE
      Apex Systems
      BIO
      I analyze technical stuff.
      smilidonmore
      That's it true as well for Dr's and for the same reason. Sure both are "Doctors" but the pay is vastly different. If you paid a anesthesiologist or a gynecologist what you pay an ER Dr. then you'd still have the ER Dr. but none of the others.

      Just as in tech if you paid a tech analyst what you pay a developer or an L2 help desk that same as a bench tech then your not going to have half of those poeple anymore. Hell you pay a dev who is updating someone else's code the same vs one that is writing their own, that guy is gonna quit that day yet same programming language and job essentially, one is just way harder than the other. And if they have a network admin for the local union rep who doesn't know the first thing about thier jobs then they won't be adequately represented or compensated.
      Jun 27
  • Microsoft / Eng jmb1911
    Only unionized teachers could raise a generation this stupid...
    Jun 28 1
    • Microsoft magic8
      I blame parents not the teachers.
      Jun 29
  • Facebook / Eng
    bustycoder

    Facebook Eng

    PRE
    Facebook
    bustycodermore
    Unions are amazing. Last time I was part of one, I had to barely work few days a year. It's every person's right to get paid
    Jun 28 0