Google @T4 not matching good Oracle MTS-3 offer

Microsoft IScV51
May 2, 2018 51 Comments

I got a pretty good offer for an MTS-3 role (I'm Senior at MS).
Told Google to match it. The recruiter told me that the compensation committee most likely won't be able to match it.
A 160/50/550 offer would have matched it. (+$5k base, +$150k GSUs compared to Google's initial offer).
I want to go to Google, but cannot afford to compromise on compensation.

What gives?

I'm around Seattle. 10+ years exp.

Is T4->T5 re-interview the only way to fix this mess?

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TOP 51 Comments
  • VMware / Eng
    vPerson

    VMware Eng

    PRE
    Wayfair
    vPersonmore
    Sounds like ~300k TC for T4 is quite astronomical
    May 2, 2018 14
    • Facebook Gwkdtp
      Fwiw I don’t think it is about blind etiquette. It looks like you don’t want to understand how the game is played and overestimating your hand. Best of luck anyways.
      May 2, 2018
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      P.S. All people at Microsoft are very knowledgeable. I've learned so much from them and I'm still constantly surprised with the nuggets of wisdom they share with me. They drive the innovations and think outside the box. The managers are great and value the team-wide and cross-team contributions, not just short-term gains.
      I'm humbled that I was able to give totally unnecessary ML deep dives, to some of my colleagues. They were low-levelled by MS, so it's great that they asked for a Principal position at Oracle and got an offer. There is now way I could repeat that. I know nothing and I can never accomplish anything. The only reason I'm leaving MS is to stop bothering people with my incompetence and let them replace me with someone much brighter.
      May 2, 2018
    • Microsoft hume
      Atta boy... now go fetch me a beer...
      May 2, 2018
    • Google UWaterloo
      Give this person a Nobel Prize in literature already
      May 2, 2018
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      @gwkdtp You're correct. I have zero idea about the game. This is my first real negotiation. I spent many years at a good company where I interned (low pay, there was no negotiation at all). With Microsoft I took a 2.5x times compensation hit at first. I had to swallow that hit for longer-term goal - relocation without 1 in 4 lottery. They knew that I was desperate and preyed accordingly.

      This is the first time I'm not getting screwed. I'm shocked by the numbers I was offered. I just cannot bring myself to leave that much money on the table. Imagine flushing your quite recent 2 year salary down the toilet. With your own hand. Just because you wanted to treat yourself with a better WLB at the expense of your wife and children. It would be extremely selfish thing for me to do.

      I'll really appreciate any info about this game, because I have zero.
      May 2, 2018
  • Amazon / Eng sde3
    It is no surprise that G pays peanut compared to obmc.
    May 2, 2018 4
    • Microsoft / Eng rvjF20
      What is obmc?
      May 2, 2018
    • Docker J&:8do
      Oracle Bloomberg Microsoft Cisco
      May 2, 2018
    • VMware / Eng
      vPerson

      VMware Eng

      PRE
      Wayfair
      vPersonmore
      Did Microsoft and Cisco recently massively raise TC? Google usually edges them out
      May 2, 2018
    • Google L3🤖
      Docker fellow is trolling...
      OMBC is oracle bare metal cloud
      May 2, 2018
  • Google / Eng ThemApples
    Google doesn't consider Oracle a real competition when it comes to recruiting talent which is why they're not tripping over themselves to beat the offer. If you got that same competing offer from a tier1 company I guarantee Google would edge them out by 5-10%.

    Source: I'm a recent L4 at 165/50/600 with 5yrs of experience.
    May 2, 2018 9
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      I just didn't quite get your point. What tier-1 companies does Google consider apart from Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft? Netflix? Apple? Is there anything else?
      May 2, 2018
    • Google UWaterloo
      Dropbox, Uber&airbnb(w/ discount), so on...
      May 2, 2018
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      Thanks. Netflix reached me recently and I'm moving fast with them.
      May 2, 2018
    • Microsoft hume
      Since you know XOR, you will definitely get the Netflix offer
      May 2, 2018
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      I was also able to reverse a linked list once. Can I become Principal?
      May 2, 2018
  • Google UWaterloo
    Haha that sounds like a high L4 offer, if you really can't compromise on the comp, targeting L5 would be the only way.
    May 2, 2018 3
    • Google UWaterloo
      Which should definitely be possible with your 10+ yoe
      May 2, 2018
    • Amazon deeeeee
      IF those were 10 years of growth. Sitting in a chair in Redmond for 10 years doesn’t mean you’re a great engineer. OP’s leveling means he’s basically equivalent to a strong candidate with ~2-3 years of exp.
      May 2, 2018
    • Facebook Kipchak
      L4 ranges from 3 - 10 yrs experience. google is stingy for leveling new incoming hires.
      May 3, 2018
  • Microsoft wfhome
    Google will not match most offers because I believe their benefits, WLB, job stability, and long term prospects are still unmatched today.

    For them to downlevel you to L4 and to lowball your offer is a common strategy they use. I think just push them and see how high they can go.
    May 2, 2018 5
    • Google UWaterloo
      Without competing offers I doubt you have much room to wiggle if at all. Could be best to reinterview for higher level.
      May 2, 2018
    • Apple a1z2x3c4
      This is a generic question about Google hire. Based on what recruiter told me, L4/L5 depends on the performance in System Design question and past experience (not just number of years; which companies and how that background/domain expertise is relevant to Google). To get any offer one has to to sell in the coding (and domain specific, if any) rounds. Is this more or less a reasonable assumption to make based on how one’s job packet is evaluated by HC?
      May 2, 2018
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      I have no problem with T4 apart from the compensation being significantly less than offered by Oracle (Google pay is good. It's just lower). I also heard there is a disadvantage in being at the top of the band.

      I'm afraid I'll regret leaving money on the table. I have a family and their needs should come first. I'm willing to sacrifice some of my personal convenience so that my children have a place to live and get education.
      May 2, 2018
    • T-Mobile r4i3me7s
      I heard Oracle OCI/BMC has interesting work and good work life balance.

      Do both companies offer an annual bonus percentage?

      Go to Google if you are looking for a resume building platform and maybe rest and vest.

      Go to OCI to get fat stacks for a good many years doing interesting work with good WLB.
      May 2, 2018
    • Apple a1z2x3c4
      Google’s annual cash bonus for L4 is 15%; plus they have RSU refreshes (probably from 2nd year). Don’t know the details for Oracle
      May 2, 2018
  • Tesla LEETCODER
    Did you screw up something in the interview?
    May 2, 2018 3
    • OpenText / Eng no_scrubs
      Did not indicate the correct level to interview for.
      May 2, 2018
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      I did not know I needed to ask for the level first. Same with Oracle. Should have asked for Principal there (same as Senior at MS).

      There was one screwup on the last interview. I was too shocked when the interviewer told me that I'll be fired if I continue to work on my hobby GitHub projects in my free time. I was too shocked and probably asked too many questions.
      May 2, 2018
    • Amazon deeeeee
      You would have received a reject if you went for L5 only. If they thought you were L5 they would have given it to you. They didn’t think you met the bar for L5 so they leveled you at L4.
      May 2, 2018
  • VMware @-@
    “A 160/70/550 offer would have matched it. “ So this would be 160 + 160 * 15% + 70 + 550 / 4 = ~391k TC first year if google matched it. OCI IC3 can go that high? Must be really top of the band or even a special approval?
    May 2, 2018 1
    • Microsoft wfhome
      This offer sounds crazy high. I doubt the Oracle IC3 offer is anywhere close to this. These numbers are even higher than the high end of an IC4 offer (according to Blind rumors).
      May 3, 2018
  • Microsoft SherPunjab
    Can u explain what 160/70/550 and 5/20/150 means
    May 2, 2018 3
    • Cisco / Eng rm rf .
      I’m guessing salary/signing bonus/RSU money, all of which are in the thousands.

      OP, I’m guessing they can’t budge on the 150k if RSUs if my interpretation is correct. I’d look to maybe lose that if the other two can be reached?
      May 2, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng Foods
      Base/Signing Bonus/Equity
      May 2, 2018
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      Recruiter is telling me they cannot increase base or sign-on bonus. There is a slim chance of increasing equity to $500k.
      May 2, 2018
  • Uber Funfact
    Google definitely can match. They just don't want to match for your case.

    You don't have to take Google offer though. Go to somewhere paying you better and later join Google for even better comp. Show them that it's them who need you.
    May 2, 2018 0

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