Google downlevel offer

Amazon / Eng cayde

Mar 7 75 Comments

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Thanks to the googlers for their advice so far.
TC 190, almost 6 yoe.

Recruiter said an L4 offer would not happen, but they would extend an L3 offer.

Said they'd likely match current salary. But if I take this, I'll be gathering other offers first.

Problem is, I am getting amazing experience at AWS building scalable and popular services. Our design decisions MATTER in a very tangible way.

Recruiter said I'd probably not get sexy projects to start, but would likely be exceeds expectations first year and then get promoted before I would have gotten my next promotion at AWS (to L6 / SDE III). I am likely to hit that promo at AWS in about 2 years.

I feel like I'll probably stay because the education and experience is so good.

But would like to hear thoughts from Googlers who have accepted this path. Downsides? Upsides? What is comp change like if you are at higher level L3 and get promoted? Any newly minted L4s out there?

Was hoping to get in at around 240 at L4.
I mean, the nice thing would be that my L3 Google salary would probably be my L5 Amazon salary. And same with 4 and 6. Want to hit 300 TC within 5 years. That's the long term goal.

Google

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TOP 75 Comments

Google / Eng gdjsg

Don't do it. You would regret the lower level.
Same with me, even with a high TC.
Won't get enough refreshers just because initial Grant was high

My manager is supportive of promo but there is an unsaid minimum tenure requirement for promo even if you are performing over and beyond.

Mar 7 23 12
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  115k in stock/year!? At L3? What was your base?
  
  What would a refresher be for you now? Can you expand on that a bit? Or maybe show what your comp history looks like? Trying to understand refreshers. Why would someone who hasn't finished their initial 4 year even get a refresher?
  
  Mar 7 0
- Oracle lHEA77
  
  >you don’t get a refresh if joining after Jan 1st of the year you’re in
  
  damn, guess I'd better make sure I join before Jan 1st of the year I'm in!
  
  Mar 7 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Lol. I think what they mean is that refreshers are likely given in April or something, so if you joined 2 months prior, you'd get no refreshers.
  
  Mar 7 0
- Intel heyhihey
  
  I think Google performance review happen in October
  
  Mar 7 0
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Oh, got it!
  
  Mar 7 0
Uber on3pmore

lmao don’t ever listen to recruiters when they try to promise fast promos

Mar 7 15 2
- Cisco ABGslayer
  
  Recruiters gonna be recruiters
  
  Mar 7 2
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Yeah, there are no guarantees. He was pretty clear that it wasn't a guarantee, but also definitely trying to sell to me.
  
  Mar 7 0
Microsoft 🐙M🐙more

Worth it for the free food

Mar 7 11 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  It was actually pretty good! I liked that they had significant variety as well.
  
  Mar 7 0
Gap / Eng randUser

What made you interview in the first place? Unhappy where you are or just want an increase in total comp?

Mar 7 1 5
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Comp! The housing market is going to get crazy soon. I actually love my current project. Feel like I won the lottery of projects. Very challenging.
  
  Mar 7 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  But I also don't want to get priced out of the housing market in a year.
  
  Mar 7 1
- Microsoft lc out
  
  Yo don't make life changing decisions just because you have some outlook on the housing market man. If you feel it's a down level, don't join. It's rare to be in a project you love, that too in AWS - something that's changed the world. If I were you I'd stay.
  
  Mar 7 5
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Agreed. Well put. I feel like until I got to AWS, I've been on projects that are good, but not GREAT. This project taught me that, holy shit, I could be working on something great.
  
  Mar 7 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Maybe I'll interview at L5 in 2 or 3 years instead.
  
  Mar 7 1
Microsoft svdsydu

I would have tried L5 with 6 yoe. L3 is laughable. Are you saying you with 6 yoe and that new grad who just finished his undergrad are going to perform at the same level?
Also, never trust recruiter or hiring manager’s words on future promotion; once you join the company it may depend on factors outside your control such as manager changing team/company, reorg, grunt work etc.

Mar 7 9 2
- Intel heyhihey
  
  I have seen 7 yoe joining at l3 with non CS background. But I agree that it's not this case with OP
  
  Mar 7 0
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Great advice, thanks for responding!! It is pretty ridiculous.
  
  Mar 7 0
Microsoft joyfill

Looks like Tom Kurian is trying to run GCP like he did in Oracle. Better to stay at AWS.

Mar 8 3 9
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Hot damn! That's not bad at all!! Plus the parental leave is amazing, I hear. Would love more than 6 weeks at Amazon.
  
  Mar 12 0
- Microsoft joyfull
  
  You are right. Parental leave is 3 months and people actually take it full. 4 of my friends took in full. two of them prepared interviews and moved to G and Oracle afterwards :)
  
  Mar 12 0
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Nice!! I should have prepared more for my G interview, but wasn't really intending to get in this year. Only did 15 LC as prep. Was surprised that they said an L3 offer might happen instead.
  
  Mar 12 0
- Microsoft joyfull
  
  Impressive you got an offer from Google despite only solving a few.
  
  Mar 12 0
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Technically I don't have an official offer yet. I posed it in that light because I had to think about whether I'd even want an L3 offer. All I know is that L4 is off the table, but L3 is very possible. It's in HC right now.
  
  I guess I've prepped for interviews so much over the last 4 years that (a few team changes), that it takes less and less prep each time? Or I just got lucky with the questions, haha. I don't have a CS degree, but I know way more about trees and graphs now than I did 5 years ago, literally only because of prep.
  
  Mar 12 1
LinkedIn stuffy🐷

6 YOE? Demand at least 250K plus signing bonus irrespective of levels.

Mar 7 4 3
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Yeah, it feels a bit ridiculous. I have actual, real world experience at a very similar company and getting the same offer as a new grad with a few competing offers?
  
  Mar 7 0
- LinkedIn stuffy🐷
  
  You probably didn’t do very well in interviews and got downleveled. Some ppl in your situation might still take the offer so that’s why Google keeps doing this.
  
  Mar 7 0
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Gotcha!
  
  Yeah, I only prepped by doing 15 LCs over 4 weeks. I, uh, should have done more. But I'm also not SUPER motivated to leave. I'll try to get 200 LC done and understood before the next one if I wait a year.
  
  I thought I did great on design (given my interaction with the interviewer), great on some easy questions, and okay on hard questions. One hard question I definitely didn't hit an optimal solution, but got a suboptimal solution out. The other hard question, I got 95% of the algorithm correct, but the last piece just didn't come to me.
  
  Mar 7 0
New / Eng remus808more

Don't accept a downlevel to L3 that's absurd, I was L4 at 22yo with 1YOE. Try to get a counter offer from Amazon instead

Mar 7 3 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Yeah, that's a GREAT analogy. Not only that, I have 6 years real world experience *at a very similar company* in terms of scale, projects, etc. I'm not interested in changing companies to do new-grad work.
  
  Mar 7 0
Amazon / Eng cayde
OP

Thanks all for your thoughts!! I am heavily leaning towards staying given that I have a meaty project that is challenging, fun, and is helping me to develop better distributed systems skill sets.

But will still be mulling it over over the course of the weekend.

Mar 7 1 7
- Google topCon
  
  Yes, worth trying all that. But check out the last entries on this post. Close to 300k as L3. Not saying you'll get that but 250k might persuade you?
  
  [Blind] Check out this post! Is it possible to get 300+K TC from google for a L4 offer (Tech Lounge)
  https://us.teamblind.com/s/KipxO7xx
  
  Mar 7 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  250 would be significant. That's SDE III level at Amazon. One thing I'd be worried about with entering L3 at 250 would be comp not changing much on promotion. Although, given that 300 is possibly at 3, 300 must be possible at 4. I'm glad I'm getting advice not just on the "stay" side. This gives me a lot to actually think about this weekend.
  
  Thanks once again, topCon! You always have great advice!
  
  Mar 7 0
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  282!!! Hoooooly crap!
  
  Mar 7 0
- Google topCon
  
  Don't forget about the yearly refreshers that stack up each year. And it's true - don't believe recruiter nonsense about promotions, but going from 3 to 4 is relatively easy, especially with few years experience already. All things to consider. Good luck.
  
  Mar 7 0
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Thank you so much! You've helped out a lot! A lot to think about this weekend.
  
  Mar 7 0
New / Eng BogoSortmore

Sounds like it is not yet a good time for you to leave AWS.

Mar 7 0 5
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Yup. That's what I'm heavily leaning toward. The experience I'm getting here is more valuable than cash. With zero guarantees that I'll get similar opportunity to develop these skills just because I got an interview question or two that I couldn't arrive at the optimal solution to in 55 minutes? Nah.
  
  I really want to work at Google someday just to give it a try. But lol, not like this.
  
  Mar 7 0
- New / Eng BogoSortmore
  
  Agreed. Every company has fun jobs and okay jobs. If you can do the fun ones, don't compromise for okay ones. Crash a Google interview next time and choose whichever team you want.
  
  Mar 7 0
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Yeah, I only ran through about 15 LC problems over 4 weeks. If I do 15 a month for a year, that would probably be better.
  
  Mar 7 1
- New / Eng BogoSortmore
  
  Yeah.
  I benefited from subscribing to dailycodingproblem.com for couple of months. I've paused it now, but will resume doing it after I'm done with relocation.
  
  Mar 7 0
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Oh, nice! Thanks for the suggestion!! I'll check out that site, too! Only done LC before.
  
  Mar 7 0
Blend tKRb03

your hire at google is google’s attempt at pulling away valuable engineers from whatever AWS is cooking up. stay 🙂

Mar 8 1 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  I like that take! :)
  
  Mar 11 0
Google iSpj48

Was in a similar position to you, doing very interesting and impactful work at my old company, and Google offered me higher TC than them. I would absolutely stay at Amazon if the best they can do is ‘match’ your current TC and your current work is interesting.

You could wind up doing really boring work.

Mar 7 1 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  I moved across the country to get out of boring work at Amazon New York. So I'm very mindful of this potential downfall. I'd really have to have a very good impression at the team marching phase.
  
  Thanks for your response!!
  
  Mar 7 0
Fitbit hgDS54

Do good work on projects that you’re psyched about and have an impact. The comp will follow.

Mar 7 0 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  While that hasn't been true for me in the past, I haven't worked on projects like this before and delivered results like this. Definitely interested in seeing if Amazon steps up their game.
  
  Mar 7 1
Google / Eng gooooogleymore

I'd stay where you are. Don't take promises of anything in future over something you have now!

Mar 7 1 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Thanks!! Definitely leaning towards that. If TC isn't going to change (or only change a bit) it's low to no cost to try again for L4 next year. Get a bit more distributed systems work under my belt. Definitely not bored here.
  
  Mar 7 0
Amazon / Eng Yolo!

Stay where you are, interview later again for the right level. They will keep calling you :)

Mar 7 0 3
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Thanks!! I really want to work at Google someday. Maybe someday!
  
  Mar 7 0
- Amazon / Eng Yolo!
  
  Once you have an offer it’s easy to get interview again later on, sometimes you may have a reduced interview loop when you interview again.
  
  Mar 8 0
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Oh, interesting!! I decided to at least hear out Hiring Managers before I say no completely.
  
  Mar 11 0
AQR 18Gx71

Does the 190k include signing and/or 15% annual bonus?

Also, i assume this is for seattle?

Mar 11 0 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Yeah I think it would be total comp. And technically I don't have the offer yet, so I'm not sure how much more it could go up (for Seattle), but I do know that 230 is possible. And above, someone (likely MTV) got 282 for L3, so if I grab a few more offers, maybe I could push it up to 230-240. Not sure the diff between MTV and SEA.
  
  Mar 11 0
Oracle tamatar

Stay back and rock it!

Mar 7 0 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  Thanks!! \m/
  
  Mar 7 0
Intel heyhihey

OP, ask recruiter if you can give additional interviews to reconsider for l4 ...

Mar 7 0 1
- Amazon / Eng cayde
  OP
  
  That's a good idea! I'm not hard up for a job change, so I don't think I'll try this right now. If I was in serious need, I'd try this. What's weird is that I thought my design interview went very well based on our interaction. That's typically the separator between levels.
  
  Mar 7 0

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Google downlevel offer

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