Google vs Oracle offer evaluation. How to negotiate?

Microsoft IScV51
Apr 29, 2018 60 Comments

I got this T4 offer from Google:
Base: $155k
Sign-on cash: $50k
Stock: $400k
(Asked for $170k base and $450k stock)

I got that offer after showing the following Senior-level offer from Oracle:
Base: $170k (banks like that for loans)
Stock: $375k

I haven't negotiated the offers yet.
What can I tell the recruiter at Google/Oracle to improve the offer?

I'm leaning towards Google, but want to get better pay and I'm not sure how to negotiate that when the Google's offers is slightly lower on paper.

Second year at Oracle would bring me $265k + bonuses/refreshers.
Second year at Google would bring me $255k + bonuses/refreshers.

Google has 15% target cash bonus based on the base salary plus unknown stock refreshers.
Oracle seems to have 25% target stock bonus based on initial stocks (great if true).

I live in greater Seattle area.
I have 10+ years of ML experience in top companies.
I could try to do T4 to T5 interviews at Google, but I do not really want the hassle.

Does the Google offer look worse than Oracle's?

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TOP 60 Comments
  • Oracle
    Apr 29, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Other Kavuebt
    You’ve managed to get two strong competing offers. Take the money off the table now and figure out which company will put your career in a better place 5 years from now - after all, that will have a much larger impact on your 10 year total earning potential. Seems to me Google is the way to go from that perspective, but it’s up to you.
    Apr 29, 2018 2
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      If money was off the table I'd remain at Microsoft.
      Personal office.
      ML and AI work.
      Walking to the office.
      C# (I've coded in Python, Java, C++, Perl and even serious SQL type big data processing in Bash. Still liked C# and .Net the most.)
      Potentially great WLB. I can arrive to work at 2PM all week and no one cares since I get the job done.

      I'd be thrilled to work at DeepMind, but do not want to relocate to London.
      I'm leaning towards Google, but I just want to squeeze a better deal from them. A guy I tutured on ML a bit got an offer from Oracle that was a level better than what I got. Now I'm envious 😁
      Apr 29, 2018
    • Oracle / Eng Madmaxf
      Oracle has no respect for achievers and they don’t belive in using them elsewhere once the product is finished . They will layoff in seconds after they are done with your friend . Oracle cant afford to give big salaries like google .
      Apr 29, 2018
  • Yahoo VBqX71
    Google
    Apr 29, 2018 0
  • Oracle Ififydugi
    Oracle does not have refreshers as I know...check to make sure
    Apr 29, 2018 11
    • Oracle / Eng
      bmio

      Oracle Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      BIO
      engineer
      bmiomore
      You will get only on promotion
      May 11, 2018
    • Oracle / Eng
      bmio

      Oracle Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      BIO
      engineer
      bmiomore
      Plus, on promotion you will get raise in December not immediately
      May 11, 2018
    • Oracle Zf
      I have gotten a cash bonus with no promo.
      May 11, 2018
    • Oracle Zf
      I have also gotten a raise ahead of promo, in anticipation of it.
      May 11, 2018
    • Expectations of IC2 vs IC3?
      Jun 1, 2018
  • Microsoft Izzy?
    I would go with Google even if the package is slightly lower. Oracle lacks the culture and benefits Google can provide
    Apr 29, 2018 0
  • Microsoft Lotl
    Google looks better on resume
    Apr 29, 2018 0
  • Oracle / Eng
    bmio

    Oracle Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    BIO
    engineer
    bmiomore
    I made a mistake by not joining Google.
    Apr 29, 2018 0
  • Oracle cOrn48
    Why are you changing into uncertain territory when you are earning so much in msft and have all other things that makes you happy ? Think twice before jumping ... it's the people that make a company and when you join you start from zero in any new org !! There are dicks in every company ...
    May 2, 2018 6
    • Oracle cOrn48
      I get your point .... and also these days I hear that loyalty begets nothing .... make a choice and hope for the best .... don't fall for the brand name ....trust your gut feelings and make the move where you think best !! All the best :-)
      May 2, 2018
    • Microsoft HackSOA
      Same here as OP said.. I cant kiss ass.. so I have to change job!
      May 3, 2018
    • Oracle cOrn48
      I always thought msft pays really well
      May 3, 2018
    • Microsoft HackSOA
      MS pay peanuts.. unless u can kiss some real ass
      May 3, 2018
    • Oracle cOrn48
      Basically you need to get out and enter again with negotiated higher tc :-)
      May 3, 2018
  • Google naiseyab
    You will do well as a T5. Just trust yourself a bit more and give interviews for T5 role. Worst case they just give you a T4 offer.

    Don't trust your recruiter. You will feel miserable if you join as T4 when your T5 peers aren't necessarily smarter than you or more knowledgeable than you.

    It is much easier for google to downlevel you and make you toil for the first few years.

    You will most likely not be happy as a T4.

    FYI, I did the mistake of believing my recruiter. They don't have much to gain when you join as a T5 over T4. Also, most teams would prefer hiring a person like you as T4 because you are more likely to produce the same output as a T5 and you will just work hard, fretting over the promo. I would say don't yield to anything less than T5.
    Apr 29, 2018 3
    • Microsoft / Eng Vquero
      Thanks for the insights.

      I'm negotiating a T5 offer myself. I have good competing offers.

      Google's offer is lower than my current comp at Microsoft and doesn't come close to competing offers.

      I've told the Google recruiter their offer is unacceptable. Recruiter says comp team won't budge. I'm surprised Google doesn't even match Microsoft.

      I'm curious about the experience of others who have gone through this negotiation process with Google.
      Apr 29, 2018
    • Google naiseyab
      Your base is high for a T4 but there is room to negotiate for more RSUs.
      Apr 29, 2018
    • Google naiseyab
      Recruiters are good at making you believe things that are not true. A friend of mine with 3 yrs of experience got T4 offer with the comp that you shared. You can definitely demand for more. Don't sound desperate to the recruiter. Tell her that you are expecting TC to be at least xyz$ and forget it. They will get back to you someday.
      Apr 29, 2018
  • Hortonworks / Eng
    Zlatan1

    Hortonworks Eng

    PRE
    Yahoo
    Zlatan1more
    At this point both offers in terms of $ are very close. For me the next thing to check to tip the balance is with whom you will be teaming for me that is way too important we are social animals after all. then how great is the project you will be working on...
    Apr 29, 2018 1
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      I'm leaning towards Google. Both of the positions have less ML than my current position at MS, but they pay much better.
      Apr 29, 2018
  • Microsoft Refreshed
    Go to google. Oracle will be a mistake.
    Apr 29, 2018 0
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      OCI?
      Apr 29, 2018
    • Oracle tomg46
      No one commenting from oracle on this post is from OCI... OCI is like an entirely different company when it comes to pay, bonus, refresh
      Apr 29, 2018
  • Google xBzb34
    Google refreshers will be much better.
    Apr 29, 2018 1
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      How much better? That would be useful for negotiating with Oracle.
      Apr 29, 2018
  • Oracle / Eng
    bmio

    Oracle Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    BIO
    engineer
    bmiomore
    At Oracle, there is no bonus and stock refresh. Even on promotion you have to wait for 1-2 year before you see any change in pay/stock
    Apr 29, 2018 1
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      I heard about huge stock refreshers in OCI. Are you talking about the OCI specifically?
      Apr 29, 2018
  • Microsoft jLaU26
    Does Oracle have ML roles or are you changing to cloud?
    Apr 29, 2018 1
    • Microsoft IScV51
      OP
      It's cloud. Oracle might have ML, but not now. But Google does not have much ML in Seattle either. That's a detriment for me.
      Apr 29, 2018
  • Oracle nkls68
    Oracle will be a mistake.
    May 23, 2018 0
  • Microsoft ftg
    Pick google. Oracle cloud is such a wildcard. If not for the high comp no one would join them and that’s a red flag.
    And as the earlier poster said, see if you can get level bumped, even if it means waiting a few more months. This is the only time you have leverage
    Apr 30, 2018 0
  • Facebook Gwkdtp
    This is not even a question.
    Apr 29, 2018 0
  • Oracle Zuwbx
    Benefits are worse in oracle
    Apr 29, 2018 0
  • Google blindusern
    Def choose G
    Apr 29, 2018 0