Google vs. Yelp - wtf leveling difference

Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
Sep 6 115 Comments

YOE: ~3.5
current TC: let's just say ~$180k

I passed the Google interview and got a team match, but
- as L3 (new grad level), which is insulting as I have 3.5 YOE and
- requiring a second onsite.

According to the recruiter, range is ~$125k-$129k (no wiggle room) plus ~$200k equity (TC: $179k?)

I also got an offer from Yelp, with:
- IC3 (senior) and
- base $150k with ~$250k equity.
(TC: $212.5k? without signing bonus)

What the fuck, Google? There is literally ZERO overlap between the two levels.

My second round Google onsite is mid-week next week (and we know how slow Google is - I asked to move it to this week but they moved it by one day instead of one week lmao) - is it even worth bothering with Google at this point seeing as how they want to downlevel me to hell?
I asked the recruiter to match my Yelp offer and she said "no we put a lot of thinking into your level. we're not moving you." ???!! Google doesn't GAF about even trying to match offers I guess?

Thoughts?

Also:
- Tell me about the cultures (both are for front-end) - the good, bad, and ugly
- If you don't work for either company, do you have thoughts about all of this? Stick with Yelp? Wait out Google?
- If you do work for either company - are either of these offer estimations accurate? Anyone got anything higher or lower?

Google vs. Yelp - wtf leveling difference
Google L3 vs. Yelp IC3 lol wtf

comments

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TOP 115 Comments
  • Facebook / Retail bookfacer
    How does one get an offer and also have to do more interviewing
    Sep 6 9
    • NASA qKln23
      It seems they are still trying to vet you still. If you impress them during your second interview, they may level you?
      Sep 6
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      I guess so! We'll see. I'm waiting to hear back from the hiring committee at this point.
      Sep 12
    • New sumName
      OP did you by any chance skip interviews?
      Sep 20
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Yeah I never did any phone screens.
      Sep 22
    • Vrbo MJon50
      May I ask how to skip phone interview?
      Oct 8
  • Yelp Insj18
    If you're really good you likely will be promoted to Google L4 quickly, as requirements for that shouldn't be high.
    On the other hand, promotion to Yelp IC4 is difficult as it equals to Google L6, and requirements for it are quite high.
    Sep 8 13
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      I LOVE WLB and I have no idea of my chances of promotion.

      Sounds like I should go with Yelp?

      Tell me more about the WLB?
      Sep 9
    • Yelp dNfA81
      I am an IC4 at Yelp barely cracking 350k. My annual refreshers at Yelp vary between 125k to 150k. There might be upside to be had in the stock, but breaking news - I haven't seen it so far. Stock has gone down 60% since I joined.

      I would go to Google which is more prestigious, looks better on the resume, as long as the team is good.
      Sep 9
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Hmm....
      The team at Google sounds slightly more boring to me but the commute would also really suck, going from SF to Sunnyvale. I really want to avoid that but they didn't have any matches for me in YouTube or SF 😥
      Team would be Google Cloud.

      Thanks for the numbers though! For your refreshers, how long do those vest over?
      And how's the culture?
      Sep 10
    • Yelp dNfA81
      4 years, vesting quarterly. Work hard and you should be able to hit ic4 in 3 ?4 years.

      Culture is great - engineers have a lot of clout. Feel free to ping me if you want more info. Yelp is a solid place to work for.
      Sep 12
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Thanks! That's useful to know.
      I've never been a senior-level engineer before so this is a new experience for me.

      In your experience, what's the expectation on new senior engineers?

      I might hit you up for questions later! Are you IC4?
      Sep 12
  • Lyft / Eng n00b0
    Apparently they think you're L3. With that YOE you should be considered for L4 but L3 with a few yoe is not uncommon
    Sep 6 8
    • Google focusonthe
      Your base pay can't move much, and I'm not sure why you care. There's a 15% bonus, and your stocks can def move as can sign on
      Sep 6
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      @focusonthe - do you know how much stocks and sign-on can move?
      Sep 6
    • Google focusonthe
      They can def match your other offer if they like you.
      Sep 6
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      @focusonthe - thanks, that's helpful to know!
      Match which part - individual parts (equity, base?) or TC?
      Sep 6
    • Google focusonthe
      Tc
      Sep 6
  • Yelp wuMl68
    Sounds like compensation + location + team are better at Yelp, why are you hung up on Google? I personally love working at Yelp and had an enjoyable interview experience.
    Sep 6 3
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      My overall feeling is to accept the Yelp offer and leave Google behind.

      However, I am also wondering whether I should bother going to the grueling onsite at all on Wednesday, knowing that they won't be able to get me an offer before my Yelp deadline.

      Another thought is that for some reason, other commenters are telling me to pursue Google even though it is much less of a fit than Yelp. I'm not totally sure why (and have asked for clarification).

      Could you please tell me your experience with Yelp? What do you love about it?
      Sep 7
    • Yelp fGGg31
      you can extend your yelp offer deadline. Tell your recruiter that you have an additional onsite at G. They will understand
      Sep 7
    • Amazon / Eng gldnhndcfs
      I also loved my yelp experience and declined an offer. So much better than FAANG as a candidate!

      I almost regret saying no because I interviewed with LinkedIn and Sunnyvale/the bay is depressing as hell. So I would love to work in the city preferably but maybe another time.
      Sep 16
  • Cerner pKdR87
    I would worry about comp and level after your second onsite feedback next week. You will not be offered L3 either if you screw up your performance in that. Prepare well and keep us posted.
    Sep 6 9
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Is it worth moving to Google for much lower comp and a crappier team?

      I failed most of those other companies you named already this time around, with my current company - I got to phone screen and/or onsite for a lot of really good companies.
      Why do I need to go to Google to go for those places in a few years?
      Sep 7
    • Disney bigthunder
      It sounds like you are strongly leaning towards Yelp and just want someone to tell you what you want to hear. I’d go with Yelp if the pay and lifestyle is better. Why not?
      Sep 10
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Yeah I am.

      Tbh I mostly made this post to complain about Google's leveling and lower base, as well as to ask about whether I should bother with the onsite that definitely won't be done in time to finish an offer before the Yelp deadline.
      Sep 10
    • Cerner / Eng
      StyaPichai

      Cerner Eng

      BIO
      Arunachala.
      StyaPichaimore
      It is worth it to have G on your resume as it adds more value. Yelp? Yes. But with G on your resume,you will have more reach in future. I suppose you said your team at G is cloud. That does not sound like a boring team either. In SF, you will have pretty big companies floating around and recruiters will try to poach you now and then. That being said, it all depends on you. If you like Yelp, go for it. The thing with G is, HC is really unpredictable and I am not sure if you can make it through next time. You obviously can if you are skilled but it takes lot luck as well to get through HC. Just my opinion.
      Sep 11
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Thanks so much for your thoughts! Good things to think about.

      (The Google commute would also suck massively.)
      Sep 11
  • LinkedIn easyb
    The levels.fyu picture is also somewhat misleading. Use the comp data to determine the true mappings. Yelp IC3 should probably be matched to Google L4
    Sep 6 6
    • Google / Ops Huhf13
      Lol, no. Levels.fyi is poorly calibrated
      Sep 8
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      How would you recalibrate the levels, Huhf13?
      Sep 8
    • Yelp dNfA81
      It's fairly easy to move up to IC4. There is a lack of senior engineers at Yelp. I would say IC4 is equivalent to l4 or l5 at other companies based on comp, and how hard it is to rise up.
      Sep 9
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Hmm. So staff at Yelp is like senior elsewhere?
      Sep 10
    • Yelp dNfA81
      Yep I would agree.
      Sep 12
  • New range
    Have you passed HC?
    Sep 6 9
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Hahaha, it would be so nice if it were only 1-2 rounds!
      Sep 6
    • Google / Ops Huhf13
      If you haven't passes HC, you have not been offered a job.
      Sep 8
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      I know.

      If I have a team match, aren't i very likely to get an offer though?
      Sep 8
    • Yelp dNfA81
      Nope I had a friend who went through HC with a team match, and got rejected after additional interviews. So, it could be a long path to a frustrating rejection.
      Sep 9
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Good to know - thanks!
      Sep 10
  • Google focusonthe
    Do you have an actual offer from Google, or is this just speculation with recruiter?
    Sep 6 8
    • Google focusonthe
      So you don't have an offer?
      Sep 6
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Not officially, but I have the information above.
      Sep 6
    • Google / Ops Huhf13
      He doesn't have offer. This is hand waving
      Sep 8
    • Yelp dNfA81
      Level is not confirmed until you go to HC. I would not consider this a Google offer unless you have heard from HC.
      Sep 9
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      It's technically not but my Yelp offer expires Friday and tbh I'm not super excited about Google
      Sep 10
  • Uber / Eng
    dh_tt

    Uber Eng

    PRE
    Google
    dh_ttmore
    Serious, it is very common scrappy small company's senior equals to L4 at Google. And more importantly, you didnt do well in your Google interview so they offer you L3.
    Sep 6 3
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Is Yelp a "scrappy small company" now though? They've been public for ages.
      Sep 6
    • Uber / Eng
      dh_tt

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Google
      dh_ttmore
      Unfortunately yes, from company size, product, rev, pay, technology, yelp compare to Google is a "small scrappy company", take a look at groupon, it is also a public company for years.
      Sorry dude, if you have experience working in both company, you will know why the level difference makes so much sense
      Sep 7
    • Yelp innocu
      Not at a junior level like l3/l4. I can totally see it being a difference at a VP level. Unlike Groupon, Yelp has been pretty good to keep away from title and level bloat. There are very few people within the company at l5/l6 levels and just one VP of eng over all.
      Sep 18
  • Google ktmb15
    Is the additional interview to get more signal and see whether HC can level you at 4?
    Sep 6 8
    • Google / Ops Huhf13
      He's borderline, doesn't have an offer yet, and is being given a tie breaker interview. Dude, go to Yelp
      Sep 8
    • Google odidj
      Tie breaker is NOT 5 interviews for Eng. It is a maximum of 2.
      Sep 8
    • Google / Ops Huhf13
      I've sent people to HC with 5
      Sep 8
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      What do you mean you've sent people to HC with 5?
      Also, what exactly is a tie-breaker interview? What tie is there to break?
      Sep 9
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      So I asked around and it seems that I had to do a second onsite because they were assessing me for a different role - Application Engineer vs. Software Engineer.
      I feel like at most companies application engineering is just like a specific kind of software engineering lol
      Sep 12
  • Bloomberg Enig16
    With that yoe, they consider you for both L3 and L4. Interviewers decided a hire or no hire for both levels based on your performance.
    Sep 6 4
    • Google
      GoogleSoft

      Google

      PRE
      Microsoft
      GoogleSoftmore
      Nope. L4 interviews usually have a design round while L3 interview doesn't.
      Sep 6
    • Bloomberg Enig16
      ^Not true at all. I know many people who got L4 without any design rounds.
      Sep 6
    • Google ktmb15
      Yeah L4 interview can be all coding. System design would only be there for additional signal if there’s a chance for L5.
      Sep 6
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      I ended up doing both system design/"application design" and "system integration" in my second onsite. Does that sound like it could be L4?
      Sep 12
  • Credit Karma dead_beat
    Yea none of this makes sense.

    1. You said you “passed” but have 5 rounds more to go
    2. You team matched with L3 before the “second onsite”

    What’s really going on here??!
    Sep 7 3
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Here's a more detailed story:
      1) I got sent directly to onsite #1.
      2) Recruiter calls me and tells me I made it. Now I am recommended to do team matching before hiring committee.
      3) Recruiter tells me I was previously posted to the internal portal at L4 but had no takers so she's gonna try posting me at L3. I ask her the range and she tells me what I posted above.
      4) L3 gets me two teams. I get on calls with both. One is left standing (the other later says they found a better match elsewhere).
      5) Recruiter tells me the hiring manager liked me but the next step is that I need to do a second onsite for the remaining team for some reason.
      6) I schedule the second onsite. I get the Yelp offer and ask her if she can reconsider level. She says no.

      That's where I am at today.
      I am just as confused as you are about what is going on, because I was not aware that a second 5-round onsite is EXTREMELY out of the norm, but I was definitely annoyed that they're making me jump through hoops even though I was ALREADY team-matched.
      Sep 7
    • Credit Karma dead_beat
      I think “made it” just means you didn’t do poorly enough to not be seen to hiring committee. L3/L4 is determined at hiring committee so I don’t know what the recruiter is smoking. I would push back and ask HC to level you.

      Is this for a specialized field? Perhaps that’s why there is an extra 5 rounds.
      Sep 7
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Do you know if it might be worth it to ask them to go to hc first right now?
      Sep 7
  • Yelp dNfA81
    Also, if you are coming to Yelp from Cruise, you will be identified. Yelp engineers are fairly active on blind, and not a lot of people move from Cruise.
    Sep 12 1
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Ahhh. Thanks for the heads' up!
      Sep 12
  • Uber unstick
    Google doesn't give a shit about your "yeo". Do better in the interview.
    Sep 6 0
  • Pivotal Axe Cap
    What was the time between your Yelp phone screen --> hearing back, as well as the time between your onsite and offer, if you don't mind me asking?
    Sep 8 1
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      For phone screen, I forgot.
      For onsite, 1 week. It was supposed to be faster but one of my interviewers went on PTO without sending in feedback before he/she left so they had to chase them down.
      Sep 9
  • Google ktmb15
    I’m so confused reading this post too. How is it that recruiter can just “post you at L4”? That’s decided by the HC not by recruiter randomly posting to see if anyone is interested. I kinda feel like you got duped somehow.
    Sep 8 1
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      I'm not sure, but that's what she told me. It sounded like she gave a rough level estimate when she advertised me for team matching. I didn't get any team matches until after she changed the level (according to her?)

      Duped how?
      Sep 9
  • Capital One LCatWork
    Why u leaving cruise? I thought that was one of the hot companies rn?
    Sep 6 1
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      1) I've always wanted to try a bigger company with more stability and mentorship.
      2) Didn't think Cruise was the right place to grow the skills I wanted.

      There's more but I'll leave it at that.
      Sep 6
  • Autodesk leetboba
    🍿
    Sep 6 0
  • Uber / Eng
    dh_tt

    Uber Eng

    PRE
    Google
    dh_ttmore
    Dont you see IC 3 = L4 in pay? you just down leveled one not two. And it is very common to be downleveled by one if you didnt do well in interview.
    Sep 12 3
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      I'm more looking for YOE matching/expectation, not necessarily pay.
      Sep 12
    • Uber / Eng
      dh_tt

      Uber Eng

      PRE
      Google
      dh_ttmore
      Lol, do you really think yelp senior = Google senior. Come on!
      Sep 14
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      I said YOE.
      Sep 15
  • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
    OP
    Update: just got another offer from indiegogo for mid-level (ic2) - awaiting numbers.

    Thoughts?
    Sep 10 3
    • Cerner / Eng
      StyaPichai

      Cerner Eng

      BIO
      Arunachala.
      StyaPichaimore
      Not sure if you can consider indiegogo before G or Yelp. What's their average pay?
      Sep 11
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Still waiting for numbers.

      Will hear back from both Google and indiegogo by end of week
      Sep 11
    • Cruise Automation / Eng ⛸️
      OP
      Update: Indiegogo ranked me at IC2 and has a pretty significantly lower offer.
      Sep 12