Green Card and legal immigration for Indians

SAP Iuy987
Jul 2, 2018 488 Comments

I know there are many threads on this but wanted to initiate a fresh one. Do you think GC issue will sort out for Indians on EB2? Any chance we may have GC in the next 5 years with priority date 2015 or later? Really, what screwed up so much.
It frustrates me that I have to think about options outside US (because of my birth place) even though I absolutely love it here.
P.S lets keep the discussion around how things may or may not change for EB-2s and not how to use EB-1 or EB-5.
P.S-I: not a forum to lecture on how we should go back and build India etc etc. China developed for very different reasons than people not immigrating. In fact China has a lot deeper history with immigrating Chinese.

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TOP 488 Comments
  • Amazon / Other
    DirkGently

    Amazon Other

    BIO
    Holistic Detective
    DirkGentlymore
    The problem is too many applicants from India. Something like 10x the number from any other country and way more than India's share of world population. This is made even worse by the country cap which tops out at just over 7 percent even though India's share of world population is over 17 percent (but sends way more visa applications than 17 percent anyway).

    The Indian system is geared to help people move to the US. From highschool many Indians have this as their plan. There are a few good technical schools in India, but many more that are essentially designed to give you a CS masters you can use to tick a box on a USCIS application form.

    Then there are the big Indian consulting firms that have entire divisions of lawyers studying the US immigration law and flooding the system with zillions of applications.

    Even if the country cap was lifted and ALL the available greencard visas were given only to Indians the waiting time would still be decades because so many Indians apply every year.

    The problem here I think is actually in India. The country needs to find ways to employ its own people instead of intentionally producing more tech people than can get jobs in their own country. It's set up to export its talent and that can't be good for India and it's certainly not good for the US to have its immigration system overwhelmed with people all from a single country.

    There's really no change to the US law that can fix this problem. India needs to fix this and start sending a normal number of applicants.
    Jul 2, 2018 68
    • Amazon / Other
      DirkGently

      Amazon Other

      BIO
      Holistic Detective
      DirkGentlymore
      That's ok just uninstall blind. Really, you won't be missed.
      Jul 4, 2018
    • Amazon Jеff Bezos
      I know. But I will miss you 😘
      Jul 4, 2018
    • Amazon / Other
      DirkGently

      Amazon Other

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      Holistic Detective
      DirkGentlymore
      I'll be ok
      Jul 4, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      This guy DirkGently is such an incompetent liar. He thinks Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito was obtuse when he said that Section 1981 applies to foreign nationals without green cards.

      He talks a big mouth but understands nothing about how courts can set the law in this country. Lyin’ Dirk.

      I’m done on this topic. If you disagree, bring a legal opinion. You’ve consistently lied the whole time.
      Jul 4, 2018
    • Amazon / Other
      DirkGently

      Amazon Other

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      Holistic Detective
      DirkGentlymore
      Alito never said it applies to the immigration system. You're the liar.
      Jul 4, 2018
  • Microsoft naaam
    Go fix the abuse your countrymen do on L1A fraud and h1 fraud. Then there will be movement in green card queue else nada.
    Jul 2, 2018 21
    • Microsoft SOkn03
      @chadman, it's not worse if you can't lose what you don't have in the first place.
      Jul 5, 2018
    • Amazon chadman
      A) L-1 visa doesn't have caps, so there's no concept of "all" the visas going to India/China

      B) As far as H-1b is concerned, by the same token, why stop at the country level? Shouldn't the limit be at the company level? If there's one (or a few) company getting a major portion of the visas (which is what the current situation is - majority of the visas go to a handful consultancy firms from India) why do employees like me (who've lived in the US all their adult life, and are working for a US company) suffer, just because they happened to have been born in a particular part of the world?
      Jul 5, 2018
    • Google angrydude
      B) no, it should be at country level. I’m an immigrant (who came on a H1B), and have several friends that didn’t have the same luck because Indians eat up all the visas.
      Jul 5, 2018
    • Amazon chadman
      Changing the rules in a way that it benefits you, without proper rationale. Nice!

      Why arbitrarily pick countries? Why not companies? Or the state their gonna be working in? Or the profession?

      Why do the number of H-1b visas to each country even need to be equitable? There's a reason they do that for green cards. Assuming their is no foul play, if the number of Indians qualified for getting H-1b visas is higher than other countries, why should they not receive the most?
      Jul 5, 2018
    • Google angrydude
      State is an interesting idea
      Jul 5, 2018
  • Microsoft anonymu5
    It might help if the average Indian was better at assimilating/blending with the host culture. Most seem to be largely uninterested in integrating.
    Jul 2, 2018 17
    • No, it spread around the office... I guess someone noticed heads above the barrier which isn't possible if sitting down or even standing up.
      Also just after they arrived people started shitting on the floor, not possible if you sit the fuck down
      Jul 5, 2018
    • Fidelity Investments UnluckyMRC
      Dude. How often do you think the aerodynamics of their falling shit had it landing on their ankles, feet, or down their legs? I can't believe this is legit. You pulling our legs?
      Jul 6, 2018
    • Microsoft athc14
      It is possible someone didn’t know how to use a western toilet. That doesn’t mean you can generalize Indians doing this stuff everywhere. On a recent business trip to India, one of the American friends peed in the sink as he got confused. I didn’t generalize Americans don’t know how/where to pee...
      Jul 8, 2018
    • Apple Nihilanth
      May be they were peeing while you thought they were taking a dump. I normally pee standing.
      Jul 10, 2018
    • IBM / Eng 132136
      I think the shit thing might br outliers, agree. But based on my experience there's a consistent tendency for Indians to be less aware of their surrounding, on whether or not their actions are rude to others.

      If on a career fair my spot was overtaken by someone, or when I was in a discussion group and someone kept talking without noticing everyone else is waiting for their turn, chances are high that he/she is Indian.

      Not to mention how many tough moments I got when interviewing with Indians. They love to put on pressure, interrupt, and lecture candidates when it's really not needed...

      Oh, again, maybe its just my experience.
      Maybe I am generalizing it, again ;)
      Jul 13, 2018
  • Uber Nanaki
    In case you have not been watching the news, things are only getting worse for all immigrants into the US. You should consider your options. I’m waiting g for green card and the 18 months it takes for me is such a restriction on my life that I can only imagine how bad it is for Indians and Chinese.
    Jul 2, 2018 0
  • Intel / Eng spacely
    Indians feel entitled. That is the problem. It's the entitlement that has caused so many people to come here. Green card is a privilege and not a right. Fix that mentality and all else will be sorted.
    Jul 2, 2018 7
    • Intel / Eng spacely
      But you just made my point. DACA is a political tool. No one forced Indians to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for education. They could have easily gone to Canada. You are right I am not from India and GC is less than a year but I knew this before I ventured into the US, I wouldn't have wasted my time if I couldn't get it in a short period. However, Indians still keep coming here either out of ignorance or just stubbornness that they can game the system. The H1b in the 90s used to be a way for my country of origin to move here but that was taken over by the Indians. No one complained. No one asked for increase in H1b but right now Indians are asking for that, why? Why do they feel privileged to ask for such? There are 140,000 work related green cards instituted by the government. Others have abided by, yet the Indians are asking for increase, why? Other countries have abides for the rules for decades. Each category is 7% per country, roughly 2k visas. I know all the rules and plotted and knew the time lines. If Indians hadn't exploited themselves, then there would be no backlogs nor issues. I truly hope the 150yrs average time can be resolved because it has become ridiculous but only if the government feels it needs to. No other country is asking for what India seeks. No compulsion to do anything.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      Until very recently, there were no official figures from USCIS or any government agency around the size of the backlog.

      Most people thought it would be 5-6 years or so, which is relatively tolerable. Most reasonable people don’t mind waiting a few years longer for some weird reason in the new country’s laws. People are speaking out now because the government is finally releasing stats about the size of the backlog, and it’s essentially way out of whack.
      Jul 3, 2018
    • Amazon 123raj
      @luy987- bruh!! Who asked you to invest emotionally?you came
      On your own will. If you dont like it move on but stop crying and creating a bad impression for all indians
      Jul 3, 2018
    • Cisco lotr
      As much as I agree, in recent times it definitely feels stupid to be a legal tax paying immigrant. I rather just lose my passport and learn to speak Spanish
      Jul 3, 2018
    • SAP Iuy987
      OP
      Bad impression? Well 123raj - If not the facts, I do hope your swag helps with the situation. Keep rocking bro ! You are cool.
      Jul 3, 2018
  • I don't understand the logic behind Democrats blocking "Merit based system" for years to favor border crossing illegal immigrants. From what I read, the 2 immigration bills which came to house floor last week stated that DACA people can also participate in merit based system! Seems pretty fair that everyone gets a fair chance based on merit! Why in the hell would Democrats be against this?
    And for the consultancies part, the govt can simply ban body shopping consultancies in my opinion and force companies to hire Candidates directly for full-time/contract.
    Jul 2, 2018 21
    • @DirkGently - your comment - "countries like India, many people do.." you do know that h1b visa is to work in US! The company has to be in US to apply for it. I sense your hatred towards h1b (Indians) based on your blunt overblown and senseless concerns. Who hurt you in Amazon?
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Amazon / Other
      DirkGently

      Amazon Other

      BIO
      Holistic Detective
      DirkGentlymore
      You can make the payment in India
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      @DirkGently If you have $600K lying around in India, you would do EB-5 for $500K unless you have a particularly trivial brain.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Amazon / Other
      DirkGently

      Amazon Other

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      Holistic Detective
      DirkGentlymore
      But you can run this kind of fraud with far less money.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      If it was prioritized by salary, you’d lose if you used far less money. Apple pays more than Amazon does, as an example, and would therefore take the spots.
      Jul 2, 2018
  • IBM daIQ51
    US as a country was never a perfect country but with persistence efforts by right people have made one of best .. if you look history.. After independence.. White Woman has to fight for woman rights for voting.. then African Americans has to fight against slavery, then equal rights , then special needs people had to fight for decades to get act .. bottom line nothing come easy in this great country.. there are lot of fight which has to be won .. but people have to United.. there should mass demonstrations of issue .. where each and every impacted should participate and world should hear the pain
    Jul 3, 2018 24
    • IBM daIQ51
      There is issue .. and we are going to fix it .. it may be not an issue for you.. I hope you read all the above comments.
      Jul 4, 2018
    • IBM daIQ51
      @123raj share yr visa status .. I will predict when you will feel the issue.
      Jul 4, 2018
    • New / Eng Y3S
      H1 is for 6 years, do not overstay it, follow the law.
      Jul 4, 2018
    • Amazon / Other
      DirkGently

      Amazon Other

      BIO
      Holistic Detective
      DirkGentlymore
      The issue is too many i140 approvals resulting in a backlog
      Jul 4, 2018
    • IBM daIQ51
      @Y3S know your law first .. no one over stay
      Jul 4, 2018
  • Microsoft eQvl05
    I’m unable to decide if the immigration rule is right or wrong. On one side, it does not seem reasonable to have so many folks be on the backlog for 15-20 years for a GC and then take 5 more years for Citizenship. More specifically these are hard working and law abiding folks, pumping money into the economy and paying taxes on time, and paying into so many US gov schemes that they might never benefit from. On the other hand, when I see so many Indians pouring into this country, I feel to maintain a good diverse immigrant population, they have to maintain the per country limit. This is a tough issue to solve and I don’t think anything is going to change.

    Of course with that in mind, the US gov needs to restrict the number of F1s and H1Bs granted.
    Jul 2, 2018 1
    • VMware iosoi
      "On the other hand, when I see so many Europeans pouring into this country, stealing our lands, killing our people, I do feel to maintain any American population, we have to maintain a limit." An original Americans last wish before he was shot dead by an illegal immigrant in 1666.
      Jul 2, 2018
  • Veritas / Other 13Jija
    There are tons of consultancies who apply H1B and greencard with fake resume for candidates. These consultancies and people need to be purged from the system. In fact, government should not even allow such consultancies to exist. Only legitimate, large corporations should be eligible for H1B and greencards.
    Jul 2, 2018 11
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      It’s fairly simple. Raise the fees on H-1B visas to pay for audits of the tax returns. Given that demand clearly exceeds supply by like 3 times, it should not be a problem.

      While at it, also raise the wage floor.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Microsoft naaam
      ^ this
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Veritas / Other 13Jija
      Great points. Wish these could be implemented. Planning to run for presidency?
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Microsoft naaam
      Problem with democracy is that no president can implement his plans either good or bad.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Facebook RHvB38
      Raising the wage floor will remove fresh graduates from the job pool, so no, don’t do that.
      Jul 9, 2018
  • SAP Iuy987
    OP
    Basically what I am hearing is - this will not be fixed in this lifetime atleast. Of course having a green card on my coffin when I am 80 has no point. While fraud consultancies and spam universities rot one side of the coin, the other is abused by greed of American corporation and American vote bank politics. Perfectly hard working, law abiding and talented folks get churned in between paying a hefty price. I really feel for the ones who came here to study, have been toppers, invested money time and effort but in the end is clubbed with folks who came here through consultancies when it comes to GC. Another point to understand is that these same fraud consultancies have a lot of money and resources. Since this GC limbo is a good problem for them, I have no doubt they will try their best to make sure it continues. They don’t want to lose control on H1Bs. Also find it hard to trust some of these advocacy groups.
    Jul 2, 2018 5
    • Flagged by the community.

    • @mauster, well said! Indians are hypocrites (I am one too).
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Uber FLOh38
      Again a lack of basic understanding of economics and history is shown by mauster and fangbound. It's pathetic that people with this kind of judgement are able to get into big merit based companies. (I am not going to explain it to you, it's pretty common sense).
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Google Larry sage
      Lol @ mauster. Seriously, how do you think America developed?
      Jul 3, 2018
    • Amazon 123raj
      Agree with everythinf mauster said. Waiting for folks to club him a racist.
      Jul 3, 2018
  • Google blok
    @luy987 - Have you done any immigration advocacy? If you did, you'd have the answers to all your questions. Highly recommended checking out - http://telegram.immigrationvoice.org/

    BTW with a priority date of 2015, you are looking at a wait time of 151 years for your green card. Another reason to become a part of IV and do your own advocacy.
    Jul 2, 2018 8
    • Microsoft / Eng tattle
      IV has tried honestly over the years to fix the issue but I don't honestly think they would ever succeed on this. Its insane to think that in America anything would happen in Immigration with advocacy, it's a lost battle.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • I think there are 2 problems that IV faces

      1) many Indians have never done advocacy in India. Most think it is useless. This is because the democracy they know in India doesn't work. Democracy system here is different and more accepting of everyone (but it has its own problems). Once you start advocating for yourself, you will see why it's very different.

      2) our folks think lawyers are Gods. They should know everything. I was one - until I saw the crazy stuff in front of my eyes. Itserve, small consultant companies, large consultant companies etc all work to ensure you are stuck till your death. A famous lawyer group kept sending mails recently saying the 150 year isn't accurate and dotn believe the article. Why? Well if people have no hope they will get GC, they will move. Obviously it's lost business.

      I applaud you that you at least can see through the fluff and be wary of indian it companies, lawyers and their cabal. At least, when I became aware of these issues, I didn't have the instinct to see through the smoke screen immediately.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      I will add that not partnering with lawyer groups and shady consulting companies is why IV members start to self-fund once they’ve been to a few meetings with congress offices and seen how things work for themselves.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng tattle
      I think IV miscalcates the % of people who get mislead. We are highly educated, we'll informated folks who can see through the billshut. Having done advocacy at the local level, I don't think legal immigration is an issue that will be resolved with these efforts. HR392 is too small to be voted independently, u add it to anything else or becomes poison. May be something can happrn when democrats have majority everywhere but until then it's foolish to hope.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      It’s not too small to be voted independently in the House. It’s been voted on independently before, in 2011. It will likely get a House vote this year as well.

      I agree that it’s too small for the Senate (because of their rules about starting and stopping debate), but that is why there are other options in the Senate. Unanimous consent is one procedure which works well for small bills, for example, and there are others. There are some fairly heavy-hitting Senators as co-sponsors and that will enable the use of certain procedures.
      Jul 2, 2018
  • Apple / Eng Marijuana
    Yeah. Rep Kevin Yoder’s HR392 (and its Senate companion, Sen Lee’s S281) would be helpful. Notice how the Republicans, which the media says is anti-immigrant, are vocal in their support for improvements to the legal employment-based immigration system.
    Jul 2, 2018 0
  • Eigen / Eng hprem
    My 2 Cents.. Not Gonna happen.. Bring Plan B or accept the limbo situation for the rest of your life.

    As someone said, if any changes comes with respect to immigration, it will be bad news for immigrants.. legal or illegal
    Jul 2, 2018 12
    • Microsoft naaam
      Yes, put a stringent merit based system based on education, salary, English fluency, age and other factors. Enforce the laws. If US does even some basic enforcement, abuse becomes very hard.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Amazon max9chars
      And why should people working in consultancies be filtered our while those working for Big Tech be filtered in? It should depend on your education, experience, and achievements, which is what EB1, EB2, and EB3 do. If you are really "meritorious", apply for EB1, else get back in the queue.

      To make it clear, I have an approved I140 on EB2 and a US masters.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Microsoft naaam
      Yes. It should be criteria based. Thankfully if you put all those criteria, the filtered ones will be mostly consultancy ones or the vendor to fte convert types.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Apple / Eng WaTpwBZkwy
      I wonder if a test for cultural fit/probabily of assimilation would be helpful here.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Microsoft naaam
      That's what ielts and age criteria is for.
      Jul 2, 2018
  • Amazon BrownGuy
    If you already have i140 approved, can you stay in the US indefinitely? If yes, why is the gc necessary?
    Jul 2, 2018 7
    • SAP Iuy987
      OP
      Yes every 3 years atleast. And then one may get stuck in admin processing for months in India or RFE might be denied or he might be fired and will have to leave the country in 2 months in case he doesnt find a job. Also, never see the benefits as a taxpayer.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Amazon BrownGuy
      Can’t believe I was this ignorant on a subject that directly affects me. Thank you for your replies.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Microsoft btYV46
      There was a talk about removing the H1 extensions if you have approved I140 but it didn’t go further... nothing guarantees that it is not going to change though and H4 EAD is on the chopping block
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Nimble Storage md2312
      H1b 3 yrs ,extension another 3 yrs. If you got approved i 140 in these 6 yrs, u need to keep on extending h1b every year after that. Also there is no guarantee that you h1b will be extended every yr,it's at the discretion og USCIS. If it's not extended you d have to go back .
      Jul 3, 2018
    • Amazon BrownGuy
      Thanks for the replies guys
      Jul 3, 2018
  • Splunk / Eng
    xxxxxxxxup

    Splunk Eng

    BIO
    Engineering
    xxxxxxxxupmore
    Quota should be lifted for people from countries which were subjected to discrimination by law, such as the Chinese(Chinese Exclusion Act 1882), Indians, Filipinos (Asian Exclusion Act 1917, 1924) and other Asians.
    Jul 3, 2018 30
    • Amazon / Other
      DirkGently

      Amazon Other

      BIO
      Holistic Detective
      DirkGentlymore
      Every country is fucked up in some way but America is way less fucked up than India, which can't even feed its people much less provide them with good jobs.

      Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
      Jul 3, 2018
    • SAP Iuy987
      OP
      Oh sure! America is floating in abundance including availability of drugs and its abuse. And jobs (slow claps) being created by morning 4am tweets. Definitely a paradise. Btw *your(sorry could not resist)
      Jul 3, 2018
    • Amazon / Other
      DirkGently

      Amazon Other

      BIO
      Holistic Detective
      DirkGentlymore
      Yeah, no crime in India. Got me there.
      Jul 3, 2018
    • New / Eng Y3S
      Man, those people hate US, but will not leave anyway, weird. Imagine many of them will become citizens.
      Jul 3, 2018
    • SAP Iuy987
      OP
      And the ones that did become citizens- are all cum laude. Real 💎
      Jul 3, 2018
  • Google / Eng
    sergey

    Google Eng

    BIO
    Haha
    sergeymore
    There is a simple way to guarantee that only the best will get green cards / work visas.

    Let's estinguish all EBs but EB1. Now you have to prove your extra-ordinary ability in order to get a green card. No backlogs anymore.

    Same for temporary visas. Let's end L1s and H1Bs and make everybody apply for O1s.

    This is a pure merit based system. No per country quota. Problem solved. You are welcome.
    Jul 2, 2018 6
    • Google / Eng
      sergey

      Google Eng

      BIO
      Haha
      sergeymore
      No. I always hear indians complaining that we need a pure meritocratic immigration system. This is the perfect solution.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Fitbit Antigua
      @Sergey With that logic, both Sathya and Sundar would not be in the country.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Google / Eng
      sergey

      Google Eng

      BIO
      Haha
      sergeymore
      I'm just answering to the call for a pure meritocratic system.

      I personally think that we should improve the immigration system as the current one is a joke. For instance, I managed to get an O1 and later an EB1 after unsuccessfully applying for H1B. It makes no sense.

      However, we also need per-country quotas otherwise the US will end up colonized by countries with very large populations like India and China.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Microsoft Mihguhx
      @antigua it won’t be anyone’s loss but theirs.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Amazon tmbillly
      Geting Phd doesnt make shitty sense when u have to make money for economy
      Jul 4, 2018
  • Amazon HateSeattl
    Indian here -It’s not gong to happen.There are just too many Indians in the US.If you really love it that much in the US date a local woman and her.That should solve your problem:)
    On a more serious note what I notice is a complete spam of Indians in grad school and the workplace .Half the Indians in my program made zero effort
    To study something proper and just desperate to get a job here by any means .I can’t blame them as well as India has an absolute shit job market for educated people and even worse quality of life .
    Ultimately we all have to survive somehow and if you don’t like it here just move to Europe or Australia or someplace else.Dont waste even one minute of your life in limbo .Its not worth it
    Jul 2, 2018 4
    • SAP Iuy987
      OP
      Already married :)
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Amazon / Other
      DirkGently

      Amazon Other

      BIO
      Holistic Detective
      DirkGentlymore
      But I guess you didn't marry a citizen
      Jul 2, 2018
    • SAP Iuy987
      OP
      True. My spouse is Indian too and not a citizen or GC holder.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Juniper / Product SkankHnt42
      remarry. both of you. 😛
      Jul 2, 2018
  • Apple Lionel!
    Simple fix is to give green card only to those who qualify for it by thoroughly vetting applicant and only those who get the i140 approved. Those who don’t get i140 should not be given a GC.
    Jul 2, 2018 12
    • Apple Lionel!
      I don’t think even Fox News covered this issue. It is not something average Americans know about. Even being in tech I only found out from these threads
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      Yeah. Because it’s hard to explain. You have to talk about 140K, 7% per country, and the fact that H-1B visas are often misused.

      Media attention would help, but most journalists are shit at understanding this, also.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Google blok
      @Lionel - It's indeed sad that the fact that Indians have to wait 70-150 years after getting an I-140 to get a green card is not known much outside the tech circles. Illegal immigration, amnesty and DACA always get all the coverage in the media. The plight of legal immigrants is an after thought.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      SF Chronicle does a good job on this issue tbh.
      Jul 2, 2018
    • MZ / Eng whirlwind3
      Democrats want family based immigration not merit based. Not holding my breath for things to change at all.
      Jul 2, 2018
  • Amazon eskB11
    Go back and build India!
    Jul 2, 2018 2
    • Amazon 123raj
      Agreed ☝🏽lemme know if folks need a referral
      Jul 3, 2018
    • Yahoo Thakur.
      So simple..
      Jul 4, 2018
  • Microsoft bAAdF00d
    I’m curious what people think it means to be “qualified”. I don’t want to believe people actually think getting a computer science degree means anything. Some of the best coders / designers / architects / thinkers have no degree and are self-taught programmers. I have a 4-year degree from a good university in Canada, but I didn’t learn anything in class. It was a means to get a stupid piece of paper to appease the powers that be.

    So, back to the question. What qualifies a person? Anyone can get a degree and still suck at a tech job.
    Jul 2, 2018 22
    • Microsoft SOkn03
      You randomly bring up about you being a top student at a top university. Clearly you think your grades and education matter.
      Jul 11, 2018
    • Microsoft SOkn03
      Every time GC backlog is argued, people love to bring up themselves or their friends with degrees from top universities. Tired of that BS. The point is, many people didn't have a CS degree and are not from reputable universities, yet they are working along side you. You take courses to learn things that you otherwise cannot pick up on your own. If many of us can do it without going through CS degrees it means you don't learn anything in school. If you feel you learned something then you are just in that degree for that paper after you graduate. It's also pathetic you want to compare schools about how you went to a better school. Because again, you feel degree, being a top university matters so much in life after school.
      Jul 11, 2018
    • Apple Nihilanth
      Okay. We can go on for years about who’s a more capable engineer. The truth is we are not solving anything. I don’t know how capable you are and you can’t begin to know how capable I am. Another matter of fact is that US immigration is not capable enough to judge who’s more capable than whom. So, turns out, us ranting about college education is pointless. I can still go on arguing every bit of BS about how you are a self-taught Engineer, but it would not solve anything. So, I’m gonna take the high road and excuse myself from this freak show and will let you get back to your javascript hacks while some of us create good frameworks for you guys to “self-teach” yourselves.
      Jul 12, 2018
    • Microsoft SOkn03
      Assuming what other people do is such a great use to society.
      Jul 12, 2018
    • Microsoft bAAdF00d
      @nihilanth LOL. You definitely took the low road with those comments. Especially making some assumption about someone being a JavaScript hack because they’re self-taught.

      I have shipping code in the Windows kernel and Xbox kernel. I’ve built scaled web services (with .NET, Java, NodeJS, and Go) all using kubernetes and other deployment solutions. I also have platform code used by tens of thousands of developers. You don’t need a university education to do any of that.

      The reality is, other than a couple dozen people who invent new shit that you would never learn in college anyways, implementing data structures and algorithms is a joke if you can read (I.e. read original research papers, etc). As an example, I never learned about red-black trees in university, but I’ve written a shipping library that implements them for others to use. Maybe “formal” education is the only way you can learn, but many very smart people prove that thinking to be generally incorrect.
      Jul 12, 2018