H4 visa - wage suppressing

Intuit / Eng Ankit
Jun 10, 2018 125 Comments

Lately I am meeting many uber drivers who tell me they are here on h1b. Later I find out that their spouse is here in h1b and they get a visa called h4.

Why are people without special skills allowed to work in the US(by getting a h4 visa) just because their spouse has special skills (has h1b visa).

If the h1b does have special skills, they should be able to support their spouse financially. If both spouses have special skills they can get a h1b visa themselves.

Why should the spouse of h1 visa get a h4 and be able to compete for normal jobs (or, all jobs) and suppress the wages of normal Americans.

comments

Want to comment? LOG IN or SIGN UP
TOP 125 Comments
  • Microsoft itoI14
    Human rights? You want people to live in the country without freedom to earn a buck? What else should they not be allowed to do? Use the roads? Parks? You love slaves don’t you?
    Jun 10, 2018 14
    • Mesosphere onsie
      Let’s take a step back. We have 65k non immigrants coming per year. FWIW, let’s assume for a bit that they are the worlds best at what they do. Is it that big a deal to give their spouses jobs too to make them stay in the long run for the benefit of this country? We give this many diversity GC’s every year to God knows whom who add zero economic value to this country. So I don’t quite understand the basis of this discussion even.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Mesosphere onsie
      Because if it’s not US, they can go to any country on earth to work. We are talking about only 65k jobs here. It’s a small blip in the ocean. Doesn’t even make any sense to think about it. Also, the EAD is not given to every h1b spouse; just the ones stuck waiting for GC. It’s only a matter of time before they can start working once their GC is approved.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Intuit / Eng Ankit
      OP
      Last I checked there was 100k more applicants than visas (and the number is 85k). So we lose 100k a year anyway to the lottery, so it’s not worth taking a collateral damage
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Mesosphere onsie
      There is 65k general and 20k for stem that is people who have done their masters or phd here. Also, read what I said; h4 ead is only given to folks who would have got a GC already if the immigration system was not fucked up. So it’s only a matter of time when they would anyways have an EAD and are allowed to work here. Does that make sense? Are you trying to argue that we should reduce the number of h1bs awarded? That’s an orthogonal discussion. There is no concrete study other than Intuit guy being worried that jobs are being lost to h1b’s :)
      Jun 11, 2018
    • Amazon / Product Ulub72
      It’s not for 20k stem. Stop being so irritant. It’s 20k for any us masters and all the engineers /stem extension folks f up everyone from not stem whom companies want to sponsor
      Jun 12, 2018
  • Lyft examazon
    If it make you feel better h4 can't work until greencard i140 is approved and they go through a process of approval https://www.immihelp.com/h4-visa-ead/

    That been said you don't have much empathy, do you?
    Jun 10, 2018 9
    • VMware /srisri
      But they are not native Americans. Are they. They were immigrants at some point. Or has immigrant ancestors. It’s just that for immigrants from Indian and China, it takes way longer to become a citizen here than an immigrant from any other country.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Intuit / Eng Ankit
      OP
      Econ 101. Demand and supply. Increase supply and wages will go down and some will not get the job
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Only Indians and Chinese get H4 Ead after I140 approval (due to long green card wait). All other country citizens directly get green card. And their spouses do work after getting green card.

      Are you ok with that ? And are u ok with illegal immigrants? Why selective ire towards H4 Ead ?

      And if everyone can get I140 easily fix that loophole and make sure deserved ppl get it. H4ead is only a small consequence of i140
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Credit Karma bpsshkvfxj
      “Americans who grew up here who can’t get a job because foreigners come and take our jobs”

      Troll harder my dude.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Facebook cBFV47
      OP, you are falling prey to the "pile of jobs" fallacy in your reasoning:
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy
      Jun 27, 2018
  • Liberty Mutual Insurance KKin45
    Just curious op, when your ancestors came here, were they here on a visa due to their special skills?
    Jun 10, 2018 3
    • Intuit / Eng Ankit
      OP
      I am first gen. I came here on eb1a
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Amazon hptkyqpv
      Eb1a is a loophole you exploited to get your GC.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Liberty Mutual Insurance KKin45
      Ahh I see, my first assumption was that you were a regular American, but now it looks like you are one who's sympathies lie with them. Has this thread been a productive discussion?
      Jun 10, 2018
  • Credit Karma ugxwlnvsvj
    “normal Americans” 🙄
    Jun 10, 2018 0
  • Google yue
    Actually H4 has more freedom than H1 in terms of what job they can do. But unfortunately our system doesn't prefer people who have degrees from foreign universities on par with those from here. Many of those Uber drivers that you met should be highly educated.
    Jun 10, 2018 4
    • Intuit / Eng Ankit
      OP
      What do you mean? Engineering degrees from all countries are recognized.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Google yue
      Yes. But not completely. I didn't say they are not recognized, but they are not preferred.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Intuit / Eng Ankit
      OP
      I though indian itt degrees were better than mit
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Google yue
      IITs on H4 are very few. Also not all IITs are in the same league. May be Delhi, Madras, Bombay or KGP to some extent.
      Jun 10, 2018
  • Your problem seems to be that you find these über drivers are here on a “visa”.

    Lets explain in a manner that your genius, high TC, loy YOE brain will understand:

    There are “n” countries on the planet.

    When people from “n-1” countries come here and you meet them as Über drivers, they are - and you can quote me on this - already US Green Card holders. Not on a temporary visa. That’s because it takes them from about 6-15 months to get a green card.

    That remaining 1 country’s immigrants, the ones who you seem to have a problem with, take about 11-50 yrs to get the same green card. The law was modified about 3 yrs ago to finally allow the spouses of these people who have finished 2 out of 3 stages of the green card process, but will probably wait for a decade more, to get a work permit.

    Sometimes, these spouses might drive Über.

    To jump to the conclusion that they are “suppressing wages” is like me jumping to the conclusion that you should be fired from your job because you asking such a question reflects your very low IQ.

    Cant speak of you, but that’ll be very rude of me.
    Jun 10, 2018 4
    • Uber Liane
      Supply and demand is pretty simple. It does suppress wages and takes jobs away from people who already have legal residency or citizenship.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Intuit / Eng Ankit
      OP
      Ad hominem attacks not withstanding, please fire me. LOL. Let me try my own:
      Let me ask you, did you study economics in a communist country where supply and demand doesn’t reflect in wages?
      Also, do you fire people for asking questions that disagree with you. Perhaps even Trump doesn’t do that.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Cerner M0j0r0j0
      OP do you understand the logic in the above response? Or are you here only to troll?
      Jun 10, 2018
    • OP doesn’t get it. Talking of “supply and demand” is very cool sounding. Till you realise that the same people who you are complaining about also create a demand - they today have more money to ride an über.

      Based on OP’s logic - remove every visa holder and while you are at it, every GC holder, and what you’ll have is an amazing world with an absolute truth of “zero wage suppression”.
      Jun 11, 2018
  • Research Now / Eng Arschloch
    OP it bothers you when you see people earn living driving an “Uber”? That too you ask this question on a Sunday which is the church day ...... hhhhmmmm...
    Jun 10, 2018 0
  • Microsoft / Sales
    Gbcja214

    Microsoft Sales

    PRE
    Google
    Gbcja214more
    Seriously you at least they can Uber. Ffs why you bitching when people want to work. They should be praised not shamed.
    Jun 10, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Eng
    Hooliganss

    Amazon Eng

    BIO
    AWS
    Hooliganssmore
    I could be wrong, but I think OP is talking about importing unskilled spouses that then compete with Americans for mediocre jobs.
    Jun 10, 2018 1
    • Intuit / Eng Ankit
      OP
      This
      Jun 10, 2018
  • Yahoo / Eng DhobiKaDog
    Just because OP's parent came here a few years earlier than rest of us.. he's now an entitled kid.
    Jun 10, 2018 6
    • Amazon / Eng
      Hooliganss

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      AWS
      Hooliganssmore
      Wait, does this mean anyone and everyone is entitled to come to the US without any prerequisites? We’re sort of a charity for the world?

      This is marvelous!
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Microsoft naaam
      So, what's diversity Visa lottery and chain immigration then? 🤔
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng
      Hooliganss

      Amazon Eng

      BIO
      AWS
      Hooliganssmore
      Get it out of here! Get it out now!
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Yahoo / Eng DhobiKaDog
      OPs entire logic is shit.. 100k salary isn't enough for a family to survive in Bay area.

      Not anyone and everyone comes here without prereqs. First getting an H1b isn't a easy task. US needs H1b and vice versa. If you don't want spouse to work .. maybe stop H1b from getting green card all together.. ship everyone who got green card through work back to their countries including OP and his parents
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Amazon / Product Ulub72
      You can live nicely in the Bay Area for 100k. Not to buy a house / choose a location you like for rent but otherwise fine. I have friends in nonprofits making a fraction. Stop b big entitled and think that tech salaries are the norm. And yes if the can’t afford - do not marry or have kids
      Jun 12, 2018
  • Amazon khol5c
    Ankit, because we want the high skilled people to stay here and if their family can't have a good life they will leave.

    Also contrary to the propaganda you may have been exposed to the economy needs more regular workers. It's at full employment with lots of jobs going unfilled.
    Jun 10, 2018 1
    • Amazon khol5c
      ^ weak
      Jun 10, 2018
  • Walmart / Product evxJ51
    Data cuts through everything. Any data on how many number of Americans are actually impacted by H4EAD taking their jobs?

    Americans over 18 year of age ~ 227M
    No of H4EAD issued to date ~ 100K, ~50K annually
    Assuming 100% got jobs, 0.04% of American working population.

    Number of illegal Mexians ~ 11M
    Number of L1 dependent issued every year ~100K
    Number of employment based green cards issued every year outside of China and India ~ 112K

    All of the other categories have more impact on American jobs.

    The argument that they knew what they signed up for holds true for folks who migrated before the EAD law was passed. It does not hold true for Anyone coming after the law was passed.

    Also, by the logic of impacting American jobs, even OPT should be removed since the students can go back to their home countries and get the practical experience. They can always come back on H1B.
    Jun 10, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Other Djdkxj
    if you can remove the H1B cap, they are more than happy to get H1B. You are lucky since you were horned here. Try to go through H1B Lottery for 3 times and still not get selected. Then come back to discuss this topic.
    Jun 10, 2018 21
    • Amazon / Other Djdkxj
      It is funny that, as a logic person, you believe what get passed by Congress must be right. Please google public law 403, Indian removal act, Patriot Act, Chinese exclusion act and so on. In your example of Italian immigrants, I did not see any evidence of hurting US. I am supporting the annual immigration cap worldwide to keep balance between born American and immigrants. But not the per county cap. BTW, the same Congress also sold weapon and fund the war. I guess you think it is right too.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Amazon khol5c
      You tried telling my that my opinion wasn't widely shared. I pointed out it's shared by the US Congress. Now that you see my opinion is widely held you're going a different way, insulting the United States.

      And if you want to see the problem just look at Silicon valley. There's a serious demographic problem that is the result of an immigration program being monopolized by people from primarily one country. A country that floods the system with so many applications that hardly any other country's people have a chance at winning the lottery. Then the whole valley had turned into an unamerican foreign monoculture.

      It would be much better if we had more diversity in our h1b program.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Amazon / Other Djdkxj
      It should be done by tying up the standard for high skill immigrants instead of county cap. Like your previous point merit based.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Amazon / Other Djdkxj
      If that’s the way how you want to argue, then my opinion is also widely held. So my opinion is right too.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Amazon khol5c
      I explained above why points don't work. You get a guy with a masters from some shitty third rate University claiming he has more points than an MIT CS undergrad. You get people spending two years to get a degree only for immigration when somebody better skilled in a richer country didn't feel the same desperation and simply worked. You get bribery and corruption and faked credentials.

      Country caps are the only solution to that. USCIS doesn't have the manpower to police it all.

      And again, silicon valley has a terrible lack of diversity that is the clear result of a lack of caps on the h1b program. It's already a problem.

      I suggest we merge h1b with i140, impose the cap at the i140 stage, and move everyone who stays three years directly to i485. No backlog. No people on h1b who cannot get a GC. More diversity.
      Jun 10, 2018
  • Oracle ccl1256
    It's ancestry over merit..and you chose ancestry..go down this road, there will be another country on top. Heck in this case, people are willing to work hard to earn. Citizens or not, every one can do it and earn.
    Jun 10, 2018 4
    • Oath Pewdiepie
      Even if this is the case, it’s the prerogative of the American establishment to make that decision for themselves. If it’s a wrong decision, they can try and rectify it.

      My personal opinion is that America won’t be impacted at all by revoking h4 even if all the people who benefit from h4 leave. They will be replaced almost immediately by more people from india who are willing to work here only for 6 years. So all this talk of the American economy being impacted is complete bs. The only thing that is affected is the American dream of some Indian families. Not saying this isn’t unfair, just that this argument that america needs h4 to be topdog is false.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Oracle ccl1256
      Phew..they are in that temp state(h4) because of the country restrictions for gc instead of being based on merit ..may be they should fix that? Better to revamp the whole system to be based on merit including merit of dependents rather than country based restrictions..again it's my opinion..some could argue we want diversity .. but if that diversity has merit it would come through anyway
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Oath Pewdiepie
      ^^^^^ agreed
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Intuit / Eng Ankit
      OP
      I came to us on eb1a bitches
      Jun 10, 2018
  • Microsoft / Product HateBlind
    Just a suggestion.. There is a difference between the process and the people. It's ok to discuss the process and the nuances (which you are not aware of) its not OK to Blame the people who are following a legal process and trying to make a better life for themselves. If the process is changes they will/should leave/readjust... They are here because they were allowed to be and even with the restrictions feel that the life in the land of the free and the home of the brave is better for them :)
    Jun 10, 2018 3
    • Microsoft / Product HateBlind
      As far as the nuance is concerned the H4 visa work permit was started only about 2 years ago and is available only to a person who has been accepted into the program to get a green card and is waiting patiently for country back logs to clear. As per estimations this can be upwards of 100 years for some H1 applicants.. (Note that all through that time these H1 candidates are contributing to Social Security without any claim to it!)
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Microsoft / Product HateBlind
      Right so that's a process issue you should write about to your Senator. If the path is available though why wouldn't someone try to take it?
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Oath Pewdiepie
      ^^^this, everyone knows or should know what they’re getting into.
      Jun 10, 2018
  • Flagged by the community.

    • Oracle alive
      It’s guesswork and guessing people’s name is not prohibited.

      The guess may or may not be correct. You may report as much as you want and that won’t matter to me.
      Jun 11, 2018
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Microsoft / Product HateBlind
      Home of the "Free"
      Jun 10, 2018
  • SAP OKWm82
    H4 should be allowed to do work only in their field of study and not all jobs as they too are on an immigrant visa(especially dependent on the H1B sponsor) . Why should H4 have a privilege to work any job while the sponsor is restricted to work only in a specialized occupation? Seems unfair.
    Jun 10, 2018 1
    • Intuit / Eng Ankit
      OP
      This
      Jun 10, 2018
  • Think about all the wage inflation at Uber and Lyft! Do you really think Uber and Lyft employees deserve 500k TC's!
    Jun 10, 2018 0
  • Oracle alive
    H4EAD won’t go away. Trump needs to keep the jobs report good. That’s the main reason he won’t take away DACA or H4 EAD. Same reason for republicans as they have election coming up.

    Trump in his second term might actually take away H4EAD , but before that there will be a recession and many H4EADs would themselves lose their jobs.
    Jun 10, 2018 4
    • Amazon / Other Djdkxj
      It is on agenda now. So I bet it will go away. Just the matter of when.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Oracle alive
      And how long has it been on agenda for?

      You are too naive to believe it like the rest of the people that have been saying it’s a matter of time since the beginning of the trump
      Presidency. It’s been 1.5 years and nothing done , think why ?
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Amazon / Other Djdkxj
      Cause you can’t just cancel something without going through process? When I said agenda, I refer to DHS law change agenda not trump’s agenda. It is on there, since Feb 2018. So learn more fact instead of using your own imagination.
      Jun 10, 2018
    • Oracle alive
      Tell me why was it not out there since Feb 2017? Why delay for more than a year ?

      Another option would have been to not undo what Obama did and instead just pass another memo to stop giving out H4EADs just like Obama passed one to give EAD to DACA. The rule making only needs to be followed if they want to.

      The Obama action was challenged in court by SaveJobsUSA and DOJ could have simply lost it and H4EAD and DACA could have been revoked much faster as that would not require the rule making process.

      Trump is just setting it up to end it in his second term. He does not care about people ok DACA and H4EAD and just worried about the impact it can have in jobs report and therefore on performance perception of his administration.
      Jun 10, 2018

Salary
Comparison

    Real time salary information from verified employees