HR 1044 bill is needed. But...

Verizon Media / Eng
coderninja

Verizon Media Eng

PRE
Yahoo
coderninjamore
Jul 12 105 Comments

Country cap definitely needs to be removed so that high skilled workers can immigrate and make this country even better. Its definitely good for the economy. But at the same time USA has to be diverse and people from countries other than India and China should have a fair chance. One way to do this would be green card should be approved for those with H1B only if they HOLD a degree from US university. People coming in through consultancies like TCS, INFOSYS, COGNIZANT, etc. should be given the last preference.

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TOP 105 Comments
  • Cognizant automateit
    Good job sounding like you are superior. 👏
    Jul 12 28
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      True that.
      Jul 12
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      Hey Cognizant, go back to Trackitt or IV where you may find some support. You are going to be ripped apart here by people who make thrice of you but have been screwed because of loser companies like yours.
      Jul 12
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      He wouldn’t stand a chance with his arguments both in terms of pay and in terms of debate against us.
      Jul 12
    • Tesla pogger
      Cognizant works the night shift to monitor our servers and send “do the needful email”. Such skills.
      Jul 12
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      I have seen these losers doing nothing but installing software on client laptops. Another one I knew was known as a Master in Excel, who happened to get an EB1C. There's no 'fairness' in a bill that gives GCs to these losers. I would rather have hot Slovenian nurses ;)
      Jul 12
  • Amazon senat
    The problem is that the India queue is full of people who are NOT high skilled. It's primarily really low quality applications by Cognizant, etc, for people paid way less than average.

    I don't support this bill in it's present form
    It's extremely unfair to make high skilled people from rest of world wait ten years so morons earning under 80k can get greencards.

    Limit it to those Indians working in real tech and sure, those people deserve their greencards and should have (and would have) had them years ago if it weren't for this consulting spam.
    Jul 12 9
    • Nvidia nv?
      You are just saying sort by salary and high salary means more skilled ?
      Jul 12
    • Oracle / R&D TLead
      @ Amazon this I agree with you totally. Just kick out the consultancy firms abusing the visas. Why are they still allowed? I’m an Indian and I hate that these consultancy firms are abusing the system.
      Jul 12
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      I’m okay with using salary as a proxy for skill level. Start with $110k as the bar, +$10k if at high cost-of-living area.

      Then ruthlessly purge the queues with above criteria. Then my awesome Indian colleagues stuck in GC queue can finally get through. Wait time will most likely be <5 years at that point.
      Jul 12
    • Google / Eng backlogged
      So you think the Indian queue is full of low quality folks ?

      So who's those superior folks? What about the unskilled RoW folks. I assume they aren't low quality for you. To be clear, to tag some humans low quality and high quality reeks of privilege. This is exactly what classism is.

      FYI today Indian and Chinese eb1(aka Einsteins visa) wait for years while eb3 unskilled RoW candidates get ahead of the line. Why did your outrage against that not find any space in your post?
      Jul 14
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      @backlogged

      “So you think the Indian queue is full of low quality folks ?”

      Yes. For years, IT consultancies have abused the H-1B system. You’re at Google, surely you’ve heard of the debacle at xws.

      “What about the unskilled RoW folks. I assume they aren't low quality for you.”

      Wait, what? Where did I say that? We weren’t even talking about the other queues.
      Jul 14
  • Intertrust Technologies / Eng datbrown
    Yeah, who defines real technology? Are you going to tell me a person graduating from Harvard is superior to person graduating from a state university? Or a person working at fb is better than a person working at xyz company? If so who draws the line? And even if you do. That is the textbook definition of discrimination
    Jul 12 3
    • Amazon senat
      Look at the salary column.
      Jul 12
    • Tesla pogger
      People from cognizant think they are superior and smart lol.
      Jul 12
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      Hey what the fuck is Intertrust?
      Jul 12
  • Oracle dhinchak
    1- The minimum wage for H1B should be 100,000 .

    2- US already has a diversity lottery system.
    Jul 12 3
    • Xilinx LWkj71
      They removing diversity lottery system.
      Jul 12
    • Microsoft gdsdfss
      Min wage should differ based on jobs.
      Jul 14
    • Google / Eng backlogged
      @xilinx: show me where did they they remove it. This is just fud.
      Jul 14
  • LinkedIn Humphrey G
    😂
    Masters degree in US means nothing. BS in a top European or Asian (Sg, Japan, Tshingua) University greater than MS degrees of most backlogged Indians.

    I say just round robin on (US state, (salary, some rank of profession))

    CA, 200K, Sr. SWE
    CA, 190k, Eng Manager
    AZ, 120K, Project Manager
    AZ, 115K, SWE
    .
    .
    Montana, 90k, Env Engineer
    Jul 12 8
    • Bloomberg cg_ny
      But then experienced people would get all the GCs and new graduates none.
      Jul 14
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      That's the whole intent of merit based immigration. The best ones with the most value get GCs. The others need to wait. If you are really good you could be commanding a 200k TC by age 25, you can still make it. But if you are 25 and make 70k, you should not.

      The system doesn't give GCs to PhD students even though they end up making ton of money afterwards. Why do you think that is okay but keeping new grads with low TCs out is not?
      Jul 14
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      The merit based would be 100% Indian favoured. Indians will work in the Indian subsidies and grow till they move laterally to HQ to get enough salaries. :)
      Jul 14
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      Sure if Indians are that good that they move laterally, then why not. At least that will keep the low quality out and nobody will be sour about Indians
      Jul 15
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      That’s what my point is. We should still be flexible to allow others, just the good ones.
      Jul 15
  • Intertrust Technologies / Eng datbrown
    Guys, I don’t think we can intellectually come with a plan to deny someone a green card. Any bill or plan you pass with favor some one or the other. You gotta come up with a system which is at least equally disadvantaged if it is not fair.

    Hahaha. Infact that is the reason free markets work. And controlled markets eventually fail
    Jul 12 7
    • Amazon senat
      Yes gamed it legally, and now you want us to change the law to further their game: no fucking way. The loophole needs to be closed, this bill widens it.
      Jul 12
    • Intertrust Technologies / Eng datbrown
      I’m all in for regulating the system. All I am pointing out, it is discrimination to point fingers and call out individuals. Based off a loop hole.
      Jul 12
    • Amazon senat
      Right now the country cap has the probably unintended side effect of blocking all these spam consulting applications. Unfortunately also blocking good people as well.

      Remove the cap without finding a better solution and it's a disaster.
      Jul 12
    • Intertrust Technologies / Eng datbrown
      I don’t know why everyone seeing this as favoring Indiana or Chinese. The point is even if you disregard that, do you really want to limit the number of people coming into the country based off their country of birth? Really?
      Jul 12
    • Intertrust Technologies / Eng datbrown
      I think that is almost as good as telling some you can’t come in based of religion/race/skincolor
      Jul 12
  • Apple ct.Thanos
    Totally Agree, cheap consultants come and block the queue
    Jul 12 5
    • Nvidia nv?
      Well they aren't really cheap. Apple would pay consulting companies as much around 100-150 USd per hour. The companies only hand down half of that to the actual employees. So they aren't cheap as such
      Jul 12
    • Amazon senat
      There would not even be a queue if we shut them down. Without the consulting petitions "spillover" would have been enough to completely clear the India queue so there would have been no wait.

      As for not cheap, look at the 2016 India petitions.
      Jul 12
    • Verizon Media / Eng
      coderninja

      Verizon Media Eng

      PRE
      Yahoo
      coderninjamore
      OP
      @Nvidia if the consulting companies hands only half of the pay that's none of our problem. If they are really high skilled why not go through Apple's interview loop and get hired. They cannot pass it. That's the reason they are stuck at consulting firm
      Jul 12
    • Nvidia nv?
      Lol, says the person working at Verizon Media.
      I don't understand how you don't see the hypocrisy in your own statement.
      Are the people in FANG who earn more than you, the only smart people?
      Jul 12
    • Verizon Media / Eng
      coderninja

      Verizon Media Eng

      PRE
      Yahoo
      coderninjamore
      OP
      @Nvidia can you please pour your thoughts on why you support the consulting firms rather than blindly venting for such firms? And to answer you question, I recently moved to Google from Yahoo. I never claimed people in FAANG are the smartest or Verizon Media is a top company. Speak sensible
      Jul 12
  • Apple ClXA56
    Fixing H1B visa abuse before fixing the country cap would be a great. Indian consulting companies should not be able to ship low skilled contractors here to steal jobs and green cards.
    Jul 19 2
    • Microsoft oMAG58
      It's also a huge waste of our time and money churning through those crappy contractors..
      Jul 19
    • Google / Eng iamhal
      I guess they've started doing this of late.
      Jul 28
  • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
    Diversity is bullshit for EB. But per country cap removal with all these 90k earning losers in the EB2 queue is a disaster. Change the rules for EB2 to a minimum 120k salary and there will be no backlog at the first place.
    Jul 12 4
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      No backlog, are you sure?
      Jul 12
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      100% of consultants are ‹ 120k. You do the math
      Jul 12
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      State matters.
      Jul 12
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      Yeah but their salaries are 70k in those cheap states. Average salary in states like CA and NJ is 95k. Most people in decent companies make 100k even in states like IN and TX. Even if you put a reasonable cap by state, WITCH is 100% out. That ends the backlog in EB2 right there.
      Jul 12
  • Groupon / Eng sleepy
    Do you know the breakdown of student population in the US by country? F1visa numbers are : China -98k, India-42k, Korea- 20k, Vietnam- 16k, Japan- 14k, Brazil- 13k Saudi- 12k. This is almost 80% of total which means very little diversity on offer. If you filter it by STEM, numbers are more skewed. As per Pew, between 2004 and 2016, 30% of OPT holders are Indians and 21% are Chinese. Overall, 74% are from APAC. Even less diversity here. In 2017, 122k Indians and 69k Chinese OPT holders were in the USA. This is among 250k approx overall OPT holders.

    If you are really sincere about diversity you have to enforce it starting from the first gate, I.e. F1 visa and then OPT.
    Jul 12 0
  • Apple magikarp16
    Big Consultancies game the system for sure. Personally, I am totally against contractual work as it is too much of a headache for the employees and too little a responsibility for the clients. This needs to change.
    Jul 12 0
  • LinkedIn ex-fb
    Do you seriously think one can make a law that says people coming from x,y,z companies should be given least preference! Clearly OP knows nothing about how laws are written and interpreted?

    Personally I support giving GCs in order of pay (will also max tax revenues), and have a crave out for jobs that are in critical need, entrepreneurs etc.

    At least a more stringent pay threshold.
    Jul 12 10
    • Intertrust Technologies / Eng datbrown
      And. I mean when you get a green card. They only insist on you showing up in the country one day in 6 months or year
      Jul 12
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      True that it is for future employment, but once you get it you have to live and work in the US. I suggest you check on the rules. I know people who lost GCs because they didn't meet their residency needs.
      Jul 12
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      Abandoning Permanent Resident Status

      You may also lose your permanent resident status by intentionally abandoning it. You may be found to have abandoned your status if you:

      Move to another country, intending to live there permanently.

      Remain outside of the United States for an extended period of time, unless you intended this to be a temporary absence, as shown by:

      The reason for your trip;

      How long you intended to be absent from the United States;

      Any other circumstances of your absence; and

      Any events that may have prolonged your absence.

      Note: Obtaining a re-entry permit from USCIS before you leave, or a returning resident visa (SB-1) from a U.S. consulate while abroad, may assist you in showing that you intended only a temporary absence.

      Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the United States for any period.

      Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your U.S. tax returns.

      👆 from USCIS website
      Jul 12
    • LinkedIn ex-fb
      Do you have a source that one day in 6 months won’t get your GC declared abandoned?
      Jul 12
  • Synopsys iLikePussy
    Hi, could you please clarify the next points for me about the transition period (I didn't get the bill fully):
    1) in 2020, 15% of visa allocated to all ROW countries with approved i140, and 85% to China/India? Or 15% is allocated to each ROW country with approved i140? It makes a big difference because in the 2nd case, ROWs will wait 1 month, and in the 1st case- years
    2) No harm part, says: " no alien described in subparagraph (B) receives a visa later than the alien otherwise would have received said visa had this Act not been enacted." So, let's say smb from ROW (Egypt) get i140 approval on September 29, 2019. The HR1044 becomes a law on September 30 (a day after). Under 'no harm', the Egyptian should get his GC in October regardless what since 'if the law was not approved', he would get GC in new 2020 fiscal year.

    I read the law 5 times, and cannot interpret it with 100% assurance. Could you?
    Jul 13 3
    • Gilead Sciences / R&D cartman++
      Stop wasting your time with it. It's going to die in the Senate negotiations
      Jul 13
    • LinkedIn ex-fb
      15% allocated to each ROW and 85% to China.

      How did you pass your Math classes?
      Jul 19
    • Synopsys iLikePussy
      "How did you pass your Math classes?" - you missed Reading classes... :( :
      "15% of visa allocated to all ROW .. and 85% to China/India. Or 15% is allocated to each ROW ..." You see 'Or' there? What does it mean, Math-LinkedIn-Man?
      Jul 20
  • Apple dyinE82
    OP - how would it be diverse if you only remove people based on degree? Aren’t people having an US degree Indians and Chinese?
    Jul 12 1
    • Verizon Media / Eng
      coderninja

      Verizon Media Eng

      PRE
      Yahoo
      coderninjamore
      OP
      Well, based on degrees it will definitely be more diverse than giving on FCFS basis as consulting companies will not get benefited
      Jul 12
  • Intertrust Technologies / Eng datbrown
    Also, tax returns doesn’t mean jack shit. I can earn 0$ and file tax returns
    Jul 12 1
    • Amazon acker
      Just require the job offer that is the basis of either the h1b or i140 to offer comp that is in the top 25% for its job category (so a top 25% nurse gets in and a bottom 25% SDE does not even if the bottom SDE earns more than the top nurse).

      If companies fake it they can be prosecuted for immigration fraud.

      It's the comp on the offer that matters, not what you got from your side hustle or investment income.
      Jul 12
  • Oath puSc85
    What amazing insights. I will mAke sure your manager knows about your blind activity
    Jul 29 0
  • Microsoft oMAG58
    Screw the industry hires, amirite?
    Jul 16 0
  • Intertrust Technologies / Eng datbrown
    Isn’t that a burden for small companies who are bootstrapping and running around to build products?
    Jul 12 0
  • Intertrust Technologies / Eng datbrown
    I guess most people here have very rudimentary understanding of immigration policies.

    You don’t need to be in USA at all. The only condition is you have to be with company who filed you a green card for 6 months after getting a green card. And you can quit whenever. After that you are a permanent resident with no conditions.

    To keep your green card active you gotta be in the country one day in 180 day period I guess or something on these lines.

    Also, if a country insists you work after you get a green card looks a communist country not a free country
    Jul 12 0
  • Intertrust Technologies / Eng datbrown
    Lol. Very convenient don’t you think? Aren’t you discriminating again?
    Jul 12 0