Thereâs feminism that everyone should get behind; like equality, stopping sexual harassment, right to choose, etc.
Then thereâs militant toxic feminism where you canât open a door for a woman because she can âdo it herselfâ. Or where all pregnancies are the manâs fault only. Itâs the kind of feminism where men have to be punished in order for women to feel better about themselves.
The militant toxic feminism is still needed. Women need the right to be overbearing assholes too. Saying women canât be aggressive, dominant, insensitive, overbearing, etc is just enforcing gender stereotypes. Both good and bad things come with equality.
Everyone already has the right to be overbearing asshats. Women and men. No one is saying women canât be. But being an asshole just because you can doesnât help your march towards equality and understanding. Feminism at its core is a great movement. Militant feminism however just hurts the cause.
Iâm saying that women donât have equality with bad behavior. If a man is a jerk, he is just a jerk. Here, if a woman is a jerk, sheâs destroying feminism.
Iâm not saying that feminism shouldnât strive for an ideal of true equality and understanding across all genders.
Iâll give you that. Thereâs a double standard there. Also when guys sleep around itâs cool. When girls do it theyâre sluts. And that sucks because I actually like them.
It might not be an issue with opening doors, but it is real when you say man up and they take it as offense, when you mansplain, manspread, and when you happily walk alone at night (they are mad about your privilege that lets you feel comfortable, despite men bring more at risk for violent crime). All that shit can piss off a lot of young women these days. It can and does get too intense.
What is too far? If anything, its not far enough. There is still a lot to go. Downplaying of sexually assaulted women, downplaying of men being raped in prison, pay gap (the remaining part after accounting for choice), normalisation of everyday harassment of women, court bias towards women in custody battles, the toxicity in handling emotional agony of boys and men, men AND women dictating and controlling women's bodies.
We've come a long way, but there's still a very long path ahead.
I think you're taking feminism literally. I believe OP wanted to call out rise of number of women in tech, which is a good & bad thing. Good because it tries to balance a skewed ratio. Bad because in order to do so, the hiring bar is compromised in quite a few cases, hence giving the impression that someone was hired on account of being female.
I think the problem is no one ever stopped to think when feminism should be over. A lot of women are trying to make careers out of it, but what happens when equality is reached?
The original menâs rights groups were an offshoot of womenâs rights movements who saw solving menâs issues as tied to increased womenâs liberation. But now people calling themselves this are just internet women-haters.
Feminists do sometimes try to take on social issues that hurt men and women - but then get attacked and ridiculed. For example, âtoxic-masculinityâ is an argument about how men are pressured to act in ways that hurt women and lead to confidence issues and depression in men. But the âMRAsâ read it and think... âwhat? Being a man is toxic... iâm going to doxx the crap out of you femanazi b*****!â
Feminists do say that the social pressure on women leads to depression and other things - thatâs the whole effort to make it not considered âunwomanlyâ to have a job or career or not âunwomanlyâ if you like sports and could care less about flowers and shit. Toxic femininity would be something like the pressure on women to both work and be a perfect nurturing parent; or the pressure to always be a peacemaker and repress your own opinions or needs.
The parallel argument is that social pressures on men to conform to certain things also cause distress and dysfunction among men: toxic masculinity.
Finally, for some semantics: âtoxicâ in âtoxic masculinityâ is a modifier, not an adjective. It is an attitude or outlook, not âsomeoneâ. It means a kind of masculinity that is toxic; it does not mean âmen are toxicâ.
For example: it is not toxic to play video games or make friendly boasts. It is toxic that in our culture, men are taught to repress their feelings directly which leads many people to take out feelings of insecurity or anger or whatnot on random online opponents by bullying or even swatting them or whatnot.
Sure, shaming could be called toxic and some feminists were like that back in the day. But that concept is pretty much non-existent among the majority of feminists today. You donât want âbe a perfect motherâ or âbe a perfect employee or career womanâ and probably most feminists reject the libertarian/neoliberal âbe both at the same time. The structural answer from feminists is that access to childcare and living-wage jobs removes this social pressure and allows parents (of both sexes) to choose their priority without economic or social pressure.
The feminist groups who joined in coalition with evangelicals to shame porn performers and customers was also a toxic strategy imo. But I think most feminists are sex-positive today.
TERFs have a toxic bigoted ideology imo... but most feminists reject them.
These are all specific things... a toxic attitude/ideology, a toxic strategy, toxic behaviors... just as âtoxic masculinityâ is attitude or behaviors.
My grammar point may have been fumbled, but I was trying to say that toxic masculinity is describing a certain specific conception of masculinity. Toxic masculinity is not interchangeable with âmasculinity is toxicâ.
People should let people do want they want. If a woman wants to stay at home with her children, let he do it and shut your mouth. If a woman never wants children or get married and âlean inâ to her career, let her do it. Women are amazing individuals and we should do what we can to ensure they can accomplish what they want without fear of judgement. The new feminism is starting to loose me because they are demeaning things such as child bearing and breastfeeding...yes breastfeeding. Some feel itâs unfair to say they women have an unfair expectation to feed their child and men donât have any responsibility to do so. They feel we should stop supporting breastfeeding because it perpetuates a stereotype. đThey are literally combating nature. Itâs too much for me.
Lol. No, not at all - thereâs been 40 years of backlash against feminism.
When thereâs available abortion on demand; better benefits for working parents regardless of gender; universal free childcare, then feminism would at least be making some headway.
And there are these idiots whining about gender pay gap. If companies pay women less only based on gender, by all means that should not exist. Talking about tech, does that really happen? Look, this is the capitalist world, if you donât negotiate, people are gonna pay you less, doesnât matter male or female.
Would you expect a tech assistant, cameraman, celebrity lead characters to get paid same in Hollywood(they all work the same)? How about fashion industry where women get paid more? You get paid more, if you can bring more money to the table, simple as that.
OP, you are as stupid as the fringe-extreme-yada-yada âfeministsâ. Feminism is merely equality in every sense of the word. Has nothing to do with females,femininity or felines hehe. I urge you to read about feminism and do a bit of research.
If the point is equality, and it's achieved, what do they stand for? That's like me starting a movement to breathe air for free, it's just dumb. Feminism jumped the shark and it's being propped up by women who made a career out of it because they lack real skills.
The analogy is related to the movie, but it's about a male rights activist movement. I don't want to spoil it or share my irrelevant opinion, but I seriously recommend watching it.
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Then thereâs militant toxic feminism where you canât open a door for a woman because she can âdo it herselfâ. Or where all pregnancies are the manâs fault only. Itâs the kind of feminism where men have to be punished in order for women to feel better about themselves.
Iâm not saying that feminism shouldnât strive for an ideal of true equality and understanding across all genders.
It might not be an issue with opening doors, but it is real when you say man up and they take it as offense, when you mansplain, manspread, and when you happily walk alone at night (they are mad about your privilege that lets you feel comfortable, despite men bring more at risk for violent crime). All that shit can piss off a lot of young women these days. It can and does get too intense.
We've come a long way, but there's still a very long path ahead.
more men commit suicide than women. there are menâs issues that need to be addressed. men and women issues are probably interlinked in some ways.
Feminists do sometimes try to take on social issues that hurt men and women - but then get attacked and ridiculed. For example, âtoxic-masculinityâ is an argument about how men are pressured to act in ways that hurt women and lead to confidence issues and depression in men. But the âMRAsâ read it and think... âwhat? Being a man is toxic... iâm going to doxx the crap out of you femanazi b*****!â
Feminists do say that the social pressure on women leads to depression and other things - thatâs the whole effort to make it not considered âunwomanlyâ to have a job or career or not âunwomanlyâ if you like sports and could care less about flowers and shit. Toxic femininity would be something like the pressure on women to both work and be a perfect nurturing parent; or the pressure to always be a peacemaker and repress your own opinions or needs.
The parallel argument is that social pressures on men to conform to certain things also cause distress and dysfunction among men: toxic masculinity.
Finally, for some semantics: âtoxicâ in âtoxic masculinityâ is a modifier, not an adjective. It is an attitude or outlook, not âsomeoneâ. It means a kind of masculinity that is toxic; it does not mean âmen are toxicâ.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/toxic-masculinity
For example: it is not toxic to play video games or make friendly boasts. It is toxic that in our culture, men are taught to repress their feelings directly which leads many people to take out feelings of insecurity or anger or whatnot on random online opponents by bullying or even swatting them or whatnot.
The feminist groups who joined in coalition with evangelicals to shame porn performers and customers was also a toxic strategy imo. But I think most feminists are sex-positive today.
TERFs have a toxic bigoted ideology imo... but most feminists reject them.
These are all specific things... a toxic attitude/ideology, a toxic strategy, toxic behaviors... just as âtoxic masculinityâ is attitude or behaviors.
My grammar point may have been fumbled, but I was trying to say that toxic masculinity is describing a certain specific conception of masculinity. Toxic masculinity is not interchangeable with âmasculinity is toxicâ.
When thereâs available abortion on demand; better benefits for working parents regardless of gender; universal free childcare, then feminism would at least be making some headway.
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Typical liberal: easily mistaken for a conservative.
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Typical eco-Malthusian: nonsense
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Should I keep guessing?
Not far enough in other cases.
Would you expect a tech assistant, cameraman, celebrity lead characters to get paid same in Hollywood(they all work the same)? How about fashion industry where women get paid more?
You get paid more, if you can bring more money to the table, simple as that.
Feminism is merely equality in every sense of the word. Has nothing to do with females,femininity or felines hehe.
I urge you to read about feminism and do a bit of research.
K