Held my ground, feels good!

Amazon negotiater
Jul 4 248 Comments

Recruiter reached out to me on LinkedIn. Opportunity seemed pretty good. Had a phone chat. Went great! My last question to her was "what's the comp range, just to ensure we're not wasting each other's time?"

She game me a number. I told her I'd think about it before scheduling call with HM. I followed up, told her that TC would have to be increased by X% - if this isn't possible, then wouldn't make sense to move forward.

She said she'd see if this was possible, reiterated how great of a fit I'd be for the role, and wanted to go to bat for me and confer with head of HR. I stuck by my TC #.

Never heard back.

It's an awesome feeling to know your value and be willing to walk away if others aren't willing to pay for it. For those of you in negotiations, stay strong!!! Know your worth and don't compromise!

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TOP 248 Comments
  • Amazon / Eng utu
    What company?
    Jul 4 24
    • Microsoft
      sherryli

      Microsoft

      PRE
      Microsoft
      sherrylimore
      Microsoft is a third tier company with five tier pay. Amazon is brain washing sweat factory. LinkedIn is Microsoft political shit hole. FANG is the way to go. A stands for Apple.
      Jul 7
    • Google amerika
      I've worked at P and E of PENIS, guess the rest of my career is laid out.
      Jul 7
    • Facebook whodattt
      Ill just post here that although the term was invented for investment stocks in blind its pretty much used to convey tier 1 comp.
      Jul 7
    • PayPal / Eng
      PayPal?

      PayPal Eng

      PRE
      Amazon
      PayPal?more
      I don't believe Amazon has an amazing comp anymore. The Tier 1 comp for it was mainly because of the stellar stock rise, which has more or less been stable for the past year.
      Jul 7
    • Chewy YIDx22
      @balanar - Federal Reserve, Academi, Advanced Armament Corporation, Northrop Grumman, Google/General Dynamics
      Jul 8
  • New / Data RoofTopSlu
    Don’t ever talk about a number until the end — your job is to always show value first; then negotiate your salary.
    Jul 4 13
    • Workiva dapper_owl
      Absolutely not. That wastes everyone's time, and interviewing is expensive for both parties. Even in a city of 7 million, the active dev community is small enough that you'll likely know the person across the table from dev focused community events if you're active. You don't need a commitment to the number, but you should stress that's your minimum.

      Then you demonstrate your value, then negotiate concrete compensation.
      Jul 7
    • VMware munDede
      Ask the recruiter for a range. If they're cagey, they have no moral right to ask you for one. At the beginning of the interview process, you're out to impress them, and vice versa at the end. So leave the negotiation to the end when you have the most leverage. They've invested time in you, so they will want to close you. I have pissed off a couple of recruiters by asking for a high comp at the end of the process, but I seem to end up with about 30k a year more than other people at my level, which I think is worth it.
      Jul 7
    • Cruise Automation malpaowb
      This is old school. I have 10 YoE and if the role they’re looking for is at Senior or below, the comp won’t match up. Slack for example said the max they could pay for the one role they had open (I’m in a specialty) was 200-300. I said I have offers for 600+ and we went our separate ways.

      There’s nothing wrong with respecting each other’s time.
      Jul 7
    • @malpaowb mind if I ask the specialty?
      Jul 7
    • Akamai Technologies VmQQ44
      I disagree with RoofTopSlu and agree with OP. Know your value and don’t let people waste your time.
      Jul 7
  • Facebook public2
    Poor negotiation, negotiatiate after they want you, never before.
    Jul 4 21
    • Facebook public2
      Super interesting this is even debatable. Next someone is going to tell me the sky is actually yellow. Crazy times we live in!
      Jul 7
    • Nielsen nqED75
      Maybe this "they'll pay if they like you" is a Bay Area thing, but it's definitely not universal. Most companies aren't going to pay your comp. If you aren't asking then you'd better be researching whether they are capable of paying you.

      Places can't just pay whatever you demand. That's just moronic thinking. If they can get the next best guy for virtually half the salary that might be a good deal for them.
      Jul 7
    • Square / Eng SQ
      Your argument comes down to: this one specific small company paid a lot, therefore every single company out there is willing to negotiate to whatever comp you want.

      🙄. 10M valuation company can't pay 500k TC cash but okay. If you Facebookers say that every company out there will hire you and pay your asking price I guess you're right.
      Jul 7
    • Facebook public2
      No, not one specific company but you said you would wait for an example so I gave you one :). The point again was to negotion from a position of strength, not weakness.
      Jul 7
    • Square / Eng SQ
      🙄 and my point was this is a very rare exception and with 99% companies is a waste of time.
      Jul 8
  • Google The Frick?
    Do you want a cookie?
    Jul 4 4
    • New / Eng SnapDocs
      That’s messed up
      Jul 4
    • Amazon xkev80
      Is it a tracking cookie?
      Jul 7
    • Amazon superbagel
      I’ll take one
      Jul 7
    • Spotify porter5
      I do actually. Thank you
      Jul 7
  • Amazon klulez
    On a phone call recruiter told me I could earn 150K - 170K in a certain role (she was recruiting for) at some hourly rate.

    Me: but I have an offer of 360K.

    ... she was in so much disbelief it got really awkward :(
    She never followed up 🤑

    Another time:
    Recruiter: how much stock will you get
    this year?
    Me: about 80-100k
    Recruiter: it’s important that we be honest in this matter with one another
    me: WTF (in my mind)
    Jul 4 15
    • Expanse Reer74
      There's a difference between checking for lies and not sharing an initial number without another offer's details. I could imagine Google wanting another offer's details to make a case for pushing beyond their best offer, but if it's a pre req to sharing their number, it's a red flag and means that Google is out to low ball me.
      Jul 7
    • Google NSFW4
      What tech stack/ skills did the hft want? How did you find the opportunity
      Jul 7
    • Jane Street Capital / Eng kqFO47
      If you’re in the intersection of google and hft firms, the tech stack is c++ maybe on Linux and some assembly
      Jul 7
    • Pure Storage fupaymoi
      Yeah I had a similar weird conversation with a google recruiter recently. During the call where the recruiter told me that I passed the interview and was explaining the hiring committee / team match process, he said he wanted me to think about my compensation expectations because he’ll need that when they get to the offer stage. I replied that he had just explained the HC process and how much data they use to make offers, and it seemed better for them to make an offer that they thought was competitive and fair, and that fit in with their pay structure. And the recruiter basically said “ok but I’m still going to need a number from you.”

      I didn’t want to get into a big argument so I moved on but I’m curious how this will play out. Also when I asked for a typical range, the recruiter said he couldn’t share anything and didn’t know the same CA law that says he can’t ask for my current comp says that an employer has to give a pay range to all applicants that ask. (This is for a senior t6/t7 role btw)

      Seems like the google process is really optimized for making sure they don’t hire bad candidates out of the flood of people dying to work there. I’m not convinced I would accept a google offer and I haven’t seen any effort to sell me yet.
      Jul 7
    • Facebook / Eng mturtle
      @NSFW4

      Low level c++ was big part. Need to understand metaprogramming, functional programming, how to drop into assembly when needed etc. Also alot of math questions, I'm joining ml team as platfimorm engineer. They didn't ask LC style questions.

      I worked in HFT for 6 years before I moved to tech, so I just called friends at 3 firm and asked for interviews.

      If you want interview without referral, message recruiter directly on linkedin. They will reply most if the time. Though they hate job hopping. Ie if you switch jobs every 2 years they won't consider you.
      Jul 7
  • Facebook / Eng
    madhuridix

    Facebook Eng

    PRE
    Facebook
    madhuridixmore
    I know a friend who has stayed unemployed for 5+ years because he knows he is worth north of 500k.
    Jul 7 6
    • LinkedIn nubody
      He is a genius like OP.
      Jul 7
    • eBay / Product blitzer
      ^ THIS 😂 ego is a mans worst enemy! He probably “stood his ground” and eating top ramen right now lol
      Jul 7
    • Google singl4ever
      unless you already have a job that paid similar lol
      Jul 7
    • Amazon / R&D
      yfsevyu4:/

      Amazon R&D

      PRE
      Samsung Electronics, FireEye, Inc.
      yfsevyu4:/more
      Recruiter/HR spotted.
      Jul 7
    • Infoblox / Eng lKsU38
      That's the power of FU money.
      Jul 7
  • Oath Atinlay2
    You showed them! 🙄
    Jul 4 0
  • Microsoft
    🤡🌎bro

    Microsoft

    PRE
    Albertsons
    🤡🌎bromore
    I get you OP. I once met Cameron Diaz at a party many years ago. She said hi to me and I looked her straight in the eyes and told her that I was a happily married man and not interested in sex with her. She just said ok and walked away all dejected. Know your worth!
    Jul 7 6
    • TD Ameritrade / Eng rum_ham
      Would be more analogous and relevant if Cameron Diaz actually propositioned you for sex. It’s not like the OP spammed the recruiter to get this conversation going.
      Jul 7
    • Microsoft
      🤡🌎bro

      Microsoft

      PRE
      Albertsons
      🤡🌎bromore
      She said hi to me which is pretty much the same.

      It was so early in the process that the recruiter was just casting their net. Good on OP for not wasting anyone's time except for those of us who read their post.
      Jul 7
    • Nvidia btfd
      She totally did 😂
      Jul 7
    • New lddj87
      🤣🤣
      Jul 7
    • Splunk / Eng ImaRainbow
      A better analogy: your response could’ve been: Terrific meeting you Cameron! Just wanted to make it clear that I only date men. I’m strongly attracted to you and would like to pursue next steps; but first I need to ask: would you be open to sex-reassignment surgery?
      Jul 7
  • Visa / Eng bDCH61
    The recruiter did right thing, to not come back. As hiring manager I would not consider candidates like you, for putting cart before horse. Interview first then hiring manager can decide if you are worth more than you ask for or less. Asking salary during first conversation with recruiter is a red flag for me. No hire.
    Jul 7 15
    • Visa / Eng bDCH61
      Been manager for over 10 years.
      Jul 8
    • New / Product crazyNerd
      I too believe it's a red flag! The attitude of the candidate says money Trumps everything.
      Like it was mentioned, Concessions would always be made for a deserving candidate! Position/Salary/RSU's etc can always be worked out
      Jul 8
    • F5 Networks wombat-
      Nothing wrong in asking right numbers. Why waste everyone’s time?

      If you shop for a house and they never tell you what’s the ask and will only tell you after you select it and have done all the paperwork, would that be logical?
      Jul 8
    • Castlight Health whaaaaaat
      It's not a red flag. I'd rather know you aren't a good fit for a role we have open before we interview you and I waste an hour of my life evaluating you for a role that there is a 0% chance of you taking an offer on.
      Jul 8
    • Roku moggers
      Well, that’s one way but it’s inefficient. You have a budget for the role. Your time is valuable.

      If the *minimum* I’m prepared to move for (which is almost always going to be greater than or equal to my current comp) exceeds your upper bound for the ideal candidate - there is zero point in us talking. Let’s find that out as fast as possible.
      Jul 8
  • This is the dumbest story ever.
    Jul 7 4
    • Amazon / R&D
      yfsevyu4:/

      Amazon R&D

      PRE
      Samsung Electronics, FireEye, Inc.
      yfsevyu4:/more
      Enjoy the low TC @ SAP.
      Jul 7
    • 😂 unfortunately it's absolutely true
      Jul 7
    • Davey cCTI36
      Yesterday I was also trolling some OP but realized I am just a guy with sour grapes attitude.. so from now on I will mind my own business because I am not enjoying my low TC
      Jul 7
    • Nielsen nqED75
      SAP and MAGA... a winning combo.
      Jul 7
  • Facebook l3sn4r
    This is a truly inspirational story. More people should read this and learn how successful people handle situations like this.
    Jul 4 4
    • Facebook / Biz Dev Khakis
      Yes, we should all strive to engage with opportunities to produce non outcomes.
      Jul 7
    • Workfront / Eng ooooops
      Nah. That was a great outcome. Company couldn't pay and OP figured it out quickly and didn't get rolled. Devs have a bad habit of selling themselves short and letting HR jerk them around. It's a lot to overcome sometimes.
      Jul 7
    • Facebook l3sn4r
      This is called Decision Tree Pruning in ML. OP removed a useless branch from his decision tree.
      Jul 7
    • Nvidia bdei51
      Truth is we still don't know if the company couldn't pay that much. it makes more sense for HR to go to HM and check if the range could be increased after the interview. if HM really liked someone he can go to VP even to increase salary band. That is obviously not going to happen before any interview.
      Jul 7
  • Snapchat Tonban
    wasted my time
    Jul 4 0
  • Wait.. are you proud of being ghosted on? She probably would have ghosted anyways, these recruiters are flaky af homes
    Jul 4 4
    • Facebook / Eng mturtle
      Yeah I had the same impression. Not sure what the flex is here. That a company didn't budge on comp. I achieved the same and I didn't even talk to them.
      Jul 4
    • Amazon WallaceSLA
      This person just sharing that they are happy about giving the number and knowing their worth. Not a “flex.”
      Jul 7
    • Nextdoor hLoz28
      They're proud of themselves for not bowing to a lower salary range for the sake of continuing the process with the company. OP knows what they want and was able to resist bending to social pressure against it. Probably not a big deal for folks who are comfortable with negotiation, but for people like myself who are very uncomfortable with it or maybe in a past life never would have considered letting an opportunity pass by (even if it was a bad fit) it's definitely worth celebrating and sharing with others for support :)
      Jul 7
    • Amazon QhrC74
      Wow i like how you all are using “they” instead of he/she. Good stuff!
      Jul 7
  • NetBrain Technologies ..x_x..
    If negotiater wasn't able to negotiate, who would🤣
    Jul 4 1
  • Nutanix / Eng cfgffgjji
    Good for you. Never give in to the leeches.
    Jul 4 0
  • Google pepperpots
    You are going up the wall of fame, buddy. The recruiter gave you an intense bj and you didn't cum. You are truly one of a kind .
    Jul 7 1
    • Amazon / IT lscP43
      LOL thank you for this
      Jul 7
  • Uber ZombieZoo
    You realize that it only shows what a dushbag you are who cares about nothing but TC? I guarantee 100% the same outcome with any other company you talk. And it's likely you NEVER hear from them again.
    Jul 8 9
    • Uber ZombieZoo
      That'd be a wrong conversation to have because that's the first rule of any negotiations - never be the first to tell a number. If it's high, people will think you are an obnoxious jerk, if it's too low, you may end up underselling yourself. So, no, kids, don't have this conversation.
      Jul 8
    • Amazon / R&D
      yfsevyu4:/

      Amazon R&D

      PRE
      Samsung Electronics, FireEye, Inc.
      yfsevyu4:/more
      Better to have it than waste my time. Asking for a higher than average TC isn’t being a jerk. If someone thinks that way, I don’t want to work with them. So good riddance.
      Jul 8
    • Uber ZombieZoo
      Let us know how it goes for you next time. I'm afraid it's only talk here.
      Jul 8
    • Amazon / R&D
      yfsevyu4:/

      Amazon R&D

      PRE
      Samsung Electronics, FireEye, Inc.
      yfsevyu4:/more
      I regret not talking about competition for few interviews in the past and thankful for talking about compensation before coming for onsite recently when I was looking.

      Frankly if isn’t a FAANG company, I will talk compensation before coming for an on-site.
      Jul 8
    • Google azhkys
      "never be the first to tell a number" is not always true. Some negotiation books argue that there are cases where you're worse off with that approach. For example if you have good information about the company's range, you can ask for a number at the high end of that and it would serve as an "anchor" and reduce the likelihood of an offer at the low end.
      Jul 9
  • Walmart.com / Eng abhi117
    Not sure for which role you were contacted for but if I was in your place, I would have gone through the interview process, at least it would have been a good practice. In case you were selected for On-site then it's all paid trip which I will never decline. But again I am talking about SDE roles, the more you practice the better you become. At later stage I could have negotiated my desired salary, as the company has already invested a lot of resources on you they might have said yes to few of your demands because it's a long ass process for a team and recuriter to start from scratch.
    My basic rule is never talk about salary till you get selected.
    Jul 7 2
    • Apple lullaby19
      It is not correct. There is no point taking a day off, go through onsite hassle and finally u get to know that their best offer 100k less than current salary. That’s a shame. This happened to me very recently. From now on I make sure I and recruiters are on the same page at the very beginning. There is no point wasting tine for both parties. Not all companies can match FAANG salaries. However I would suggest if you are moving from low paid companies to higher ones, then u don’t need to bring salary expectations at early stage
      Jul 7
    • Splunk / Eng ImaRainbow
      I avoid all this by responding only to recruiters at companies big enough to have known, documented payscales with standardized job titles. (Documented in many ways but levels.fyi is one that clarifies my point).

      Sometimes I’ll make an exception and go through interview rounds at startups but I don’t expect anything from them but interview-practice. Someday a startup could come up with an attractive offer (and I’ve held jobs at them before) but it’s not something I’d expect in today’s economy.
      Jul 7
  • New
    djtmrp20

    New

    PRE
    Google
    djtmrp20more
    Attaboy!
    Jul 4 1
    • Disney zeOO31
      Attagirl! ;)
      Jul 7
  • Cisco / Product Aragon4
    Nothing to celebrate. Negotiating power depends a lot on your situation. Let's see what you do if you are unemployed and have a huge student loan and a family to support.
    Jul 7 0

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