Help me negotiate with Google!

Facebook fb_eng
Sep 27, 2018 133 Comments

(currently in Menlo Park, and all offers in SF Bay area)

Current situation at FB:
===
* Role: SWE
* Level: IC5 (E5)
* YoE: 12
* Base: 196k
* Bonus target: 15%
* Annual refresher: ~$120k (per usual)
* Unvested FB stock: $332k
* Tenure at FB: 3 yrs

Google offer
===
* Role: SWE
* Level: L5
* Base: 200k
* Stock grant: $700k over 4 years
* Bonus target: 15%
* Sign-on bonus: $50k

LinkedIn Offer
===
I'm not very keen on them, but trying to use them as leverage for Google. Here's their current offer:

* Role: Eng Mgr (equivalent to Staff Eng?)
* Base: $205k
* Stock grant: $600k
* Bonus target: 15%
* Sign-on bonus: $50k

The opportunity with Google looks pretty great, but I'm not very happy about the comp. In fact, if I stay on at FB, my expected TC for next year (year 4) will be $455k, which exactly matches Google's first year TC. But my recruiter said Google only considers competing offers when deciding on comp and not my current comp numbers, and their offer is essentially a 5% bump on LinkedIn's.

Any suggestions for negotiating comp a bit upwards with Google? If I can get Google to agree to these numbers, I'll take it:

* Base: $200k
* Stock grant: $800k over 4 years
* Sign-on bonus: $100k

If they don't budge, I'm considering staying at FB, because I'm on a team/org with pretty good setup and prospects for growth, and the project aligns with my strengths.

comments

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TOP 133 Comments
  • Amazon Jеff Bezоs
    We can write them a letter on your behalf if that would help?
    Sep 27, 2018 10
    • Aetna HJph46
      Lol ++
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Capital One / Eng Gqdm53
      Pretend you have higher offers
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Microsoft UwXN33
      LOL 😂
      Sep 30, 2018
    • Capital One / Other Ofkhd
      LMAO
      Sep 30, 2018
    • Amazon U56hggv
      Savage
      Sep 30, 2018
  • Pure Storage DAJNMU
    Sounds like you've figured out your threshold already. My play would be to politely lay out to your Google recruiter exactly what you said here. You're excited about the Google opportunity and really want to join, but at the current offer it doesn't make sense for your family to leave FB. If they can raise their stock and bonus a bit to what you're asking for, you'll accept. And then live up to what you say - if they give you what you ask for, accept the offer; if they don't, say it's a really hard decision and you need some time to think.
    Sep 27, 2018 15
    • Microsoft / Product ishhhsss
      I agree. Dajnmu probably has better phrasing. Less aggressive. Overall point to make is that you have to walk away if they don’t come up. And that you very much do consider your current comp as a relevant competing opportunity.
      Sep 28, 2018
    • Amazon lzpF47
      If your honest answer is ‘this is what it would take to get me to go’ then just tell the recruiter that. Either they do it or they don’t— if they don’t then you stay.

      I wouldn’t muddy this with current comp/competing offers. It’s irrelevant. What is relevant is you have a job and you have multiple other offers. In light of your current set of choices, you would need X in order to accept google. That truthful, and is really all the recruiter needs to know.
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Google rlzv82
      5 to 6 at google will take a lifetime. Why do you want to move laterally?
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Square / Eng nom🍔
      G 5 is higher than FB 5
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Uber (Admin)
      If the roles are equally compensated, choose the better mission.
      Sep 29, 2018
  • Oscar / Eng tc / gtfo
    Facebook is Google’s biggest competing offer. It’s unfortunate in the sense you are working for them already. They won’t consider current probably because you want to move on anyway. So why leaving facebook?
    Sep 27, 2018 3
    • Microsoft / Product ishhhsss
      I’d also call the recruiters BS here. Just tell them

      “.. maybe that’s Google policy, but I assure you that as far as I’m concerned, you are competing with FB for this to work”.
      Sep 28, 2018
    • Splunk eGRt21
      Agree on calling recruiter BS. Google is widely known to wordsmith junior positions that aren't worth your time. I had a relative that was a recruiter there; far too petty, far too cultish. What ishhhsss says seems like a jerk thing to say, but Google recruiters, as opposed to MSFT, AMZN, and FB, haven't shown the good faith, or hell even the courtesy, they demand of others. And they are quick to blame everyone.
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Workday / Eng
      blindster

      Workday Eng

      PRE
      Yahoo
      blindstermore
      ☝️ @ishhhsss is spot on
      Sep 29, 2018
  • Google
    Jrvlz

    Google

    BIO
    Tlz
    Jrvlzmore
    Holy fuck those numbers!
    Sep 27, 2018 8
    • Amazon / Eng Amazon.com
      I’m actually curious - do you mind proving it ?
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Stitch Fix qaehm3m7
      Definitely not inflated
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Google / Eng exlinkedin
      DM me
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Google alf1
      There is no benefit to inflating offers if you are asking for help with your offers. I do agree that people often inflate existing salaries mainly because they include stock appreciation, rsu refreshers, sign-on, and back-weighted rsus.
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Pinterest imir87
      isn’t goog L6+ regularly at least half a mill? 350-500K TC for L5 seems pretty standard for top companies
      Sep 29, 2018
  • Microsoft OPaB84
    I don't get you numbers. Your current RSU is 332k. Google is giving you 700k RSU. The rest is pretty much the same. Where is your FB comp better?
    Sep 27, 2018 7
    • Facebook Shobc
      But then at year 5 he’s got less equity left so his TC will be lower so he’s got less leverage to negotiate and will have to rely more on competing offers.

      It’s a trade off. I’d take the Google offer if I was in his shoes.
      Sep 27, 2018
    • Oscar / Eng tc / gtfo
      If he can vest everything by what? Feb? Then cant he just jump ship? That’s what I was trying to game.
      Sep 27, 2018
    • Facebook Shobc
      Could work
      Sep 27, 2018
    • Cisco / Product zettabyte
      You can get 800k stocks by being willing to walk away. Any insight into interview feedback? If they think you are awesome they won’t let you go for 100k stocks. Also, That salary will put you at 99 percentile for L5. Current offer is already 95 so it’s a very strong offer already. Also, you are comparing FB 2019 TC with Goog 19 TC. Compare 2020, 21 & 22 as well with Goog’s refreshers stacking up!
      Sep 27, 2018
    • Uber ———
      I don’t understand. Fb also gives yearly refreshes. That 332k rsu left must not be only for the 4th year but also include all remaining into 5th year.
      Sep 29, 2018
  • Facebook Shobc
    “But my recruiter said Google only considers competing offers when deciding on comp and not my current comp numbers”

    WTF. Those are numbers you get by staying put. Anyways you negotiate by being flexible and being willing to walk away by finding better counters. If you want Google at all cost you accept that offer. It’s decent.
    Sep 27, 2018 0
  • Roku CsPw57
    Your offer is already too good for L5. you will have to move to next level to get a better offer. However since you were interviewed for L5, they might not have assessed certain L6 attributes. Tell them that you are open to a level up interview if that is what it takes.
    Sep 27, 2018 10
    • Facebook Gdhsbbsisu
      L6 is building a project with redefined entirely something in Google. Scope of the project is typically 6-8 people working with you as a tech lead for a couple of years. It is pretty hard to earn.
      Sep 29, 2018
    • New systemB
      Stock grants are almost always a function of salary and level (example : L5 earns $220k including bonus, we give them 3x the stock over 4 years). If you say someone had a $1.3M stock grant then they probably invented some tech (like new voice recognition) at their previous company and Google is buying that tech, cheap.

      I do agree that the offer is too good for L5 and you will be stuck with the same base salary for 3-5 years while the rest of us L5's level up to your level :-)
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Oracle gogl
      So L6 is leading 6 more leads? Or 6 more dev?
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Facebook / Eng msus33
      6 is usually leading a team. 7 is an order of magnitude higher, influencing multiple teams in a large scope.
      Sep 30, 2018
    • Oracle gogl
      Similar to 6 at Amazon?
      Sep 30, 2018
  • Neustar / Eng AdaL
    Use the Google offer to get LinkedIn to match Google’s RSU and then use the upgraded LinkedIn offer to negotiate the Google offer
    Sep 27, 2018 0
  • Google s89
    If ur happy with ur current job, just stay at fb. U wont be happy at goo
    Sep 27, 2018 1
    • Airbnb Why?
      Why?
      Oct 2, 2018
  • Townsquare Media Slutwhispr
    Don’t be eager. Play it cool. You’re not desperate
    Sep 27, 2018 0
  • All your options are close enough that money shouldn't be a decision maker here. I understand you are trying to get the best deal out here but make sure you don't lose sight of your target overthinking about money. As others have said unless you get a much better competing offer Google's counter is not going to be meaningfully different from their current offer. So don't let comp bias your decision making unless that's the only thing that matters to you.
    Sep 28, 2018 0
  • Intel Magnetic
    Your existing job is already a competing offer.
    Sep 29, 2018 1
    • Google idkwmni
      Legally, it's not.
      Oct 4, 2018
  • LinkedIn / Eng
    newby

    LinkedIn Eng

    PRE
    Amazon
    newbymore
    Google sometimes plays hardball and recruiters can be jerks. Threatening to walk away might be the easier way to wake them up. If you eventually walk away, a special recruiter will reach out after ~6 months to investigate what happened. That's another opportunity to join as you won't have to interview again. That's at least what happened to me. Guy is still calling me every 6 months and says that I could join anytime on similar conditions
    Sep 29, 2018 0
  • Facebook NLWa46
    Negotiate the sign-on. That should be easily doable. The stock.. who knows...

    Don’t we get a special equity grant at 4 yrs, too, or does that extra $100k+ get granted in year 5? My tenure is not that long but I’ve read this on other blind posts.

    Btw, don’t just consider como. If you get a good setup consider your next team may suck. You may get a bad manager situation, etc. Does the comp difference factor the risk you’re taking? If I were you, I’d strongly consider that as well.
    Sep 29, 2018 2
    • Apple / Eng cho Chang
      Are u talking about discretionary equity? It has nothing to do with being at fb for 4 years.. u get it only if u perform really well and if they care a lot about retaining u.
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Facebook 10+10=100
      Google is no way as generous as FB on sign-on. 50-60k is considered top signon at G, unlike FB that offers 100k even outside return interns.
      Sep 29, 2018
  • Apple / Eng Apple Park
    Stay at FB. You’ll be changing jobs for what seems like a minimal increase, or even a wash, and you never know what you’re getting into if you change companies.
    Sep 29, 2018 1
    • Oscar / Eng tc / gtfo
      So true. Isn’t Google famous for A/B team? Two teams competing to land the same damn product?
      Sep 29, 2018
  • Apple / Eng cho Chang
    Get other competing offers apart from LinkedIn, like snap L4.
    Sep 27, 2018 0
  • New systemB
    As a google L5 myself, it's a very generous L5 offer since L5's usually get (in total) anywhere from $250k-$350k, you would be ranked at the top end of L5. Also, frankly, Facebook is dead in the water, floating face down in the water, Google knows that you can expect zero growth in the stock over the next 3 years. A half-year ($100k) sign-on bonus is a pipe dream, if you say that, the recruiter will likely hang up on you right away.

    Also did you consider that as an L5 you're likely to get a stock refresh every year that equates to $100k/yr? It happened to me every year since I came, my salary averaged out to be $50k higher than what I signed on for (at least over the first 4 years).

    Who else is L5 at Google? How about Brian Kernighan or Sam Harbison, both who wrote influential books about a language called "C" ...
    Sep 29, 2018 2
    • Roku kkUA10
      Brian is L5 ?
      Sep 29, 2018
    • Amazon Jеff Bezоs
      So the selling point is that you get to work in the same place where dinosaurs that you may not even see work?
      Sep 30, 2018
  • PayPal / Eng Penmol
    We can offer you a director position here at PayPal with 500K TC. Don't join us but you can leverage it to get better offer from Google.
    Sep 30, 2018 0
  • LinkedIn ltsdata
    Consider Microsoft vs Fb vs Google Stock growth as well.
    In last 1 years.

    MSFT(LinkedIn): 50% growth
    Fb: -5%
    Google: 20%

    If you see last one year growth between these companies then LinkedIn RUSs are more :)
    Sep 29, 2018 2
    • Uber atg_lord
      Past performance can surely predict future return
      Sep 30, 2018
    • Dropbox xub
      Fb isn't doing as well as it used to be and its future is worrisome
      Oct 3, 2018
  • New OLVa33
    Just do this down to the letter!

    Meet the recruiter or hiring manager with a friend to film the whole thing.

    Say to Google and your current manager at FB:

    "I'm not happy with your numbers at all motherf*****s. You need to do 3x better for me to talk to you".

    Then fart, kick the trash and exit the building.

    Record that shit and become a YouTube star
    Sep 29, 2018 1
    • Oscar / Eng tc / gtfo
      Blinder not enough??
      Sep 29, 2018