Hope this passes and Donny signs

Microsoft / Eng 24816
Feb 8 58 Comments

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TOP 58 Comments
  • Veritas rufy
    The 7% per country is relatively fair, otherwise everybody will suffer delays due to the flooding from Indian and Chinese applicants
    Feb 8 8
    • Microsoft / Eng 24816
      OP
      No other developed country has this system, why we should create separate lines ? Do we have lines by nation at airports, restaurants, DMV ? What makes other Nationals special ?

      Employment based Green cards are for skill based and not nation based
      Feb 8
    • Veritas rufy
      Because it is to avoid a DoS for everybody and because it maintains equal representation of population (i.e. diversity). Green Card is not H1B, even though there are GC for PNI
      Feb 8
    • LinkedIn / Product gassoup
      Chinese nationals should be flat out forbidden from coming to the US to work, especially in companies that deal with anything related to national security or infrastructure.
      Feb 8
    • Veritas rufy
      Also, no other country sees such a ridiculous amount of skilled immigration as the US. In fact the limit on immigration the US is imposing helps the other countries to reduce the brain drain. It is a very known problem
      Feb 8
    • Oracle dont-know
      Per say Canada - Canada is directly benefiting due to current immigration situation in US
      Feb 8
    • Veritas rufy
      Yeah because people settle in Canada while waiting for GC. It would be a whole different matter if EU were to be benefiting...
      Feb 8
    • Microsoft / Eng 24816
      OP
      No other country sees such ridiculous amount of skilled immigration because they are not the world's largest economy
      Feb 8
    • Facebook cool kids
      Lol..rufy does not know anything about skilled immigration..ever went to east asia? Singapore?
      Feb 8
  • Microsoft / Eng 24816
    OP
    Those who think country quotas maintains diversity

    https://www.cato.org/blog/are-country-limits-necessary-promote-diversity
    Feb 8 17
    • Google ohwoww
      Sure, others could also do the same? So what's your peep?

      Your point is - well there are other 10 other things you can do - go use them
      When I point out you have 10 ways, but I have only 8 ways - your point is go do those 8 ways. What you arent seeing is your statement is also applicable to you. Why don't u do them (well I am making these statements because you asked me to, I won't have told you what to do if you didn't).

      Here is my point - if you are worried so much about abuse, push a bill to fix abuse. I am with you. For example, hr 810, that prevents president from doing Muslim ban. I am with anyone who supports the bill. To be clear, you are against abuse, not penalize folks just because they are born in some country. If that's not your principle, you probably should also drink the white coolaid.

      Just remember that you aren't any more special than me just because you were born in a different country, nor you are less special than me - if you are vetted for your skill by USCIS, then you are capable of doing the job. I see no reason that you are any secondary to anyone, so am I. This is a skills based visa, not a diversity visa (which I don't have access to - which others have).

      Fairness is a fundamental thing. You may want to understand that there is a good reason why you can't hire based on race. Country of origin is immutable characteristic. I can't change it and to penalize me, while letting others is a bad thing.

      Several decades ago, when the civil rights movement succeeded and blacks attained legal ability to work equally, the privileged race complained, 'now the blacks will compete with our jobs'. This doesn't sound very different from that.

      We had a special GC queue and they gonna taketh away. The others used to rot in the line while we got it in 2 years. Look that's going away and these folks are ruining my line
      Feb 9
    • Veritas rufy
      You still insisting GC as specialty worker visa. That is not the case, only a very small subset, of which the majority is already covered by H1B.

      USCIS is a limited resources service so the alternative would be to issue a fixed number of GCs, similar to H1B, with no limit per country. Result: everybody gets delayed by years because now you potentially have a queue of several millions of applicants. Therese is no way around it because even if 0.1% of India and China populations apply, that is still something like 3.5 millions.

      Also, the US is free to deicide its rules and you are not to be entitled to whatever you want. Be thankful you can work in the US in the first place, and understand that immigration is and always be regulated and limited in those countries subjected to positive immigration flow.

      Finally, good think you found out life is not fair.
      Feb 9
    • Google ohwoww
      Eb line is an employment Immigrant visa. This is how it is called. The purpose of it is to provide permanent residency for folks who qualify to meet certain criteria set forth as part of the visa.

      Again, everyone sharing the same wait time is fair, because this is a skill vetted visa. It's not a visa where your ties to someone here determines who gets visa (that would be family visa).

      No one is asking to increase the number of green cards. If that's the case, your argument about no control has merit.

      Infact the bill is popular among conservatives because of this reason, it doesn't increase the number of visas. It ensures that people who are here and contributing the local community aren't treated second class over future unborn citizens.

      Life is not fair, but as a society we have been striving for fairness. Civil rights was one such seminal moment in our history. Just because life wasnt fair, people didn't resign and stop working on civil rights. If that was the case, there would be no possibility of progress in the society.
      Feb 9
    • Veritas rufy
      The popularity of the bill does not make neither correct nor more fair...

      The fact is H1B covers 90% of the use cases for EB2 and EB3 already. H1B lasts for up to 6 years (you can renew it once) and after you are past a certain point in the GC process, indefinitely.

      Now tell me what H1B leaves out as your presence in the US is bounded to a Job and there is little argument for GC in these instances (there is EB1 for that reason). In fact, most people wont even stick for the first 3 years to the same job, so wth?
      Sure enough people who made it here they want to stay (at least the majority), and for that they need GC. Pretty unfair to all those people back there who didnt have the same opportunities or resources, aint it?

      The reason of this bill is to please a certain part of voters, because upcoming elections. It does not fix the issue of skilled immigration.
      There are other ways for that, but I believe this discussion went a little bit too far already, but a good starting point is to fix H1B, something has been done already but there is definitely more room for improvement.

      That said, just to be clear, I am H1B myself, and have same GC struggles as anyone else, but at least I am trying to be objective instead of selfish.
      Feb 10
    • Google ohwoww
      You may be okay with being bound to your job. I don't. I want to start a company, but I can't. I have several patents, which if I wrote them myself, would be worth a few millions. They are obviously, my company property.

      You may be okay with worrying about what will happen to your kid's education if the renewal didn't go through, because the adjudicator has vast powers to reject your renewal.

      You may be okay with worries if not getting visa stamped and handed a 221g, which is a clue less black hole that holds you from entering the country for several months. I am not.

      You may be okay with my friend, who died a month ago, with a wife and 6 year old kid, who applied under extraordinary circumstances for a EAD and were denied and asked to pack up. She isn't working and has a house to sell.

      May be you don't care about my friend's special needs kid, whose care will be in serious trouble, as the availability of services in India is so less.

      May be you don't care about my friend, whose kid has a genetic disorder and he is expected to die when he turns 22 and the only hope they have at this point is a clinical study for people like him, which would also be in jeopardy if he is kicked out of the country.

      Hmmm.. I have no clue, you may be okay with this for life. But I don't.
      Feb 10
    • Google ohwoww
      Also this bill has nothing to do with elections. This bill has been there for 10+ years. If you think this bill is a knee jerk reaction for elections, you are definitely clueless about this bill
      Feb 10
    • Veritas rufy
      It does not matter how long the bill has been out there. It became suddenly of relevance due to Trump politics, and that is why you have an article dated 2018.
      Feb 10
    • Google ohwoww
      This bill was relevant in 2012 when it passed with huge majority in house (380+ yes).

      This bill was relevant in cir as it was an amendment to cir.

      This bill was as relevant in previous term as much as DACA or any other bill.

      Again - you are still clueless. Trump has nothing to do with this. This bill is a bipartisan bill. Last term when they had 300+ cosponsorship, it had 100+ Dems and republicans and almost equal number of Rs and Ds. Its nothing to do with elections, if so, it would have been either a Dem or republican bill.
      Feb 10
    • Veritas rufy
      Dude, wth are you talking about and stay focused. We are talking about this specific one that was introduced on Thursday. And it will be a shit show if it passes as already explained. What is there already does not count as it does not have the wreckage that would be introducing this one.

      Also, DACA has been extensively used as a political instrument. You are just clueless about politics.

      But it is clear that you are one of those entitled Indians who think they deserve a GC. That is simply wrong. GC for employment purposes should not exist (excluding cases like EB1) because jobs are not *forever*.
      Feb 10
    • Google ohwoww
      ^ I never said I deserve a GC - I am asking for fairness in the system. I only deserve as much as anyone else in the line and the country of birth doesn't make me any better or worse than you.

      Fairness is fundamental to the Constitution of this country. Equal opportunity laws are things to be celebrated about this country. I have tremendous respect for such fairness laws.

      Folks supporting the bill aren't asking for special treatment - we are only asking to be treated like anyone else on the line.

      Let me give you an example of folks who think they are special and deserve GC.

      They believe they have something called 'Iranian green cards' and think they have a right to it. You should talk to them
      Feb 10
  • Apple / Eng MojaveX
    Veto that shit
    Feb 8 1
    • Microsoft / Eng 24816
      OP
      MAGA!!!
      Feb 8
  • Apple eev33
    I wish we would just copy Canadian system. Seems straight forward and the rules are clear.
    Feb 8 1
    • Apple JobsAtApp
      Have you seen quality of immigrant crowd in Canada? No thanks. This country is different. We need country cap on h1 and then GC problem will automatically solve.
      Feb 8
  • LinkedIn / Product gassoup
    I dislike Trump but I still think the H1B is a ridiculous system that should be completely abolished.
    Feb 8 3
    • ^^^
      Feb 8
    • Facebook cool kids
      I see..good luck with that..!!
      Feb 8
    • Indeed tookerjerb
      At least ban Indian companies who abuse the system. They are literally taking American jobs and we arent doing anything to stop it.
      Feb 8
  • Intel HRC
    Not happening. Orange boy bad.
    Feb 8 0
  • VMware kjrp10
    Hope this fails...
    It would drown non Indian / Chinese
    Feb 8 8
    • Google ohwoww
      So here is how the current system is -

      There is an unborn kid in Norway (put your favorite country here) who will be born, grow up come to US and will get green card before those folks who are contributing to the local economy, paying taxes and are part of the the community. So you want to prioritize them because of the only immutable characteristic that they were born in another country. This on an employment visa, where my skills were vetted to be eligible to be given a green card.

      Tell me why?
      Feb 8
    • VMware kjrp10
      Was talking about H1b quote.
      Blame is not with unborn kid in Norway,
      Blame is with Indian and Chinese skull corporation. They flood the system with low paid employees which they hold "prisoner".
      No one said it was fair, neither is the opposite
      Feb 9
    • Google ohwoww
      How about then pushing a bill to fix h1 abuse instead of holding the country caps removal hostage? You can walk and chew at the same time. Real progress doesn't happen in one shot, they happen one after another.

      Many of us have been waiting patiently for more than a decade for a relief, while folks whose only qualification more than me is being born in another country. They move on with their life in few years from h1.

      To say this bill should fail without actually helping fix the problem is classic armchair activism.
      Feb 9
    • OnDeck max2387
      Why should Indians waiting be penalized for something Indian outsourcing companies wrong doing. They should find a way to punish them not us. It's like there are certain countries from where terrorists have come then by that logic ppl from those countries should be banned. Iran opposes this bill which is funny coz again by that logic since Iran does not have good relationship with USA coz the govt feels they are a threat ppl from there should be banned but instead they want faster GC lol
      Feb 9
    • VMware kjrp10
      Under no circumstances did I say current system is correct nor it should not change.
      I don't know what the correct "fix" should be.
      Yes, I think it is very unfair to my Indian friends for having to wait for over a decade.
      They should not be penalized because of Indian outsourcing companies.
      But, removing caps is not the way.
      On the one hand I would say, raise minimum requirements for pay and experience, but, that would harm none tech and none bay area.
      Feb 9
    • OnDeck max2387
      Raise min pay based on wage levels for that region makes sense and this per country cap is BS.
      Feb 9
    • VMware kjrp10
      They'll just downlevel everyone.
      Also, startups can't afford same pay as big companies, equity doesn't count in PWD.
      Having Caps per level actually makes more sense
      Feb 9
    • VMware kjrp10
      Same way H1b lottery gives preference to higher education
      Feb 9
  • Facebook cool kids
    Democrats will block it in the house...they will never support any form of immigration reform..especially legal..
    Feb 8 2
    • Microsoft / Eng 24816
      OP
      But they have same bill in the house
      Feb 8
    • Microsoft KSFb46
      Yeah, no wonder they introduced it.....oh wait
      Feb 8
  • Hope this passes. Lots of co-sponsors from both sides on this
    Feb 8 0
  • Facebook cool kids
    I hope this fails, so that China/India can surpass US economy by retaining their talents...which would at-least make ignorant Americans read world news again!!
    Feb 8 2
    • Indeed tookerjerb
      Lol..most Indian and Chinese talent on H1b arent any more special than American graduates. The only people who benefit in this current system are universities who charge lots of money to international students and companies who prefer h1b labor as theyre more obedient.

      You know who loses? Americans.
      Feb 8
    • Facebook cool kids
      There is a clear dearth of american talents in stem..if youre not convinced then this discussion is pointless..
      And yes, not all h1b hires are super talented and there are a lot of bodyshoppers, but thats a separate reform in the h1b selection process..current admin already started reforming h1 by giving more preferences to us grad school hires
      Feb 8
  • New / Eng mowgli剁
    Numbers show America needs more, not less, immigrants
    http://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/opinion/trump-immigration-myth.html
    Feb 8 0
  • Amazon jacksap
    Even if this passes wouldnt it take 10-15 years for a green card?it only increases the quota to 15%-doesnt eliminate it completely.
    Feb 8 2
    • Verizon / Ops
      walthamher

      Verizon Ops

      PRE
      Google
      walthamhermore
      Where is this 15% mentioned?
      Feb 8
    • I think 15% is during the transition period only.

      Title of the bill makes it clear - eliminating the cap, or am I missing sth ?
      Feb 8
  • The current bill has some Do No Harm provision so that those with already approved I-140s shouldnt be harmed
    Feb 8 0
  • eBay aErk76
    What happens to people who have i140 approved but switched jobs and the process is restarted (only porting dates) if their priority date comes and they r still undergoing paper work with current employer what happens then?
    Feb 8 0