How do you feel about the Google diversity manifesto?

MongoDB _🍚
Aug 6, 2017 88 Comments

I'm trying to get a better idea of Blind's general feels about this Google doc.

How did you guys feel after reading it?

https://motherboard.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/kzbm4a/employees-anti-diversity-manifesto-goes-internally-viral-at-google

740 VOTES SELECT ONLY ONE ANSWER
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TOP 88 Comments
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Facebook / Eng
      magnets

      Facebook Eng

      BIO
      Wasting time on Blind
      magnetsmore
      @bezos saying stupid shit with a poorly done "very smart" affect doesn't make the stupid shit less stupid. It makes it worse. KAIF is saying *very* stupid shit with a *very* pseudo intellectual affect. Actual smart people don't act like this.

      Also, Jesus Christ KAIF. Now with the drinking == asking for it?

      So answer my question. MRA, Redpill, MGTOW, or something ever crazier? Or all of the above?
      Aug 6, 2017
    • WRKSHP / Eng 999
      Hmmmmm. Why not just resolve to be open in general, then? I've found lots of value in that.
      Aug 7, 2017
    • WRKSHP / Eng 999
      Doesn't sound awkward at all. One of my favorite things is to listen to people's stories and see them open up ❤️ and of course I do the same.
      Aug 7, 2017
    • WRKSHP / Eng 999
      And that's another reason why I don't like drinking. I value my mind a lot and don't want to make it worse.

      Tbh, kind of a moot point when I don't get drunk anyway (I just puke).
      Aug 7, 2017
    • WRKSHP / Eng 999
      Why even bother getting drunk then?
      Aug 7, 2017
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Amazon / Design DisCommit
      "Meritocracy" was originally a satirical term, and the writer who conceived of it derides anyone who uses it to justify their position of power. http://kottke.org/17/03/the-satirical-origins-of-the-meritocracy
      Aug 6, 2017
    • Zendesk vanished
      Amazon, if you want to discredit things based on uncomfortable origin stories, you’re not going to like discussing Margaret Sanger. In the end, it doesn’t matter much, does it?
      Aug 6, 2017
    • Spotify / Eng qbeforeu
      It's kinda bs to accuse other of having beliefs only because of emotion but assume your beliefs are perfectly rational.
      Aug 6, 2017
  • Pivotal boourns
    There's definitely a couple valid points in it but they'll never be discussed. The mob effect is already in full swing (and largely proving some of his points). I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the drama.
    Aug 6, 2017 6
    • Google kWHx68
      The official Google response at least was much more tame than the burning at the stake suggestions of several other Googlers, who I'm sure didn't even read it with claims like "this engineer thinks women and minorities shouldn't be engineers" that are pulled completely from their asses
      Aug 6, 2017
    • Google blackface
      The thing is, correct me if I'm wrong, but the document tried to explain why they are so low numbers of minorities not that they shouldn't be engineers? It's more like things in their life may make it harder to make that choice.
      Aug 6, 2017
    • Amazon Jeff Bezоs
      @poop Dude, you're expecting the VP of diversity to engage in a discussion that basically revolves around the merits of the existence of her own job?
      Aug 6, 2017
    • Talkdesk / Other poop 💩
      I see your point Jeff
      Aug 6, 2017
    • Allegion anonce
      Google would have to be an exceptional place to grapple with the sjw/diversity trend
      Aug 8, 2017
  • Facebook EPRL48
    there is some context missing. Google has been aggressively promoting women, at least in SWE positions, with a much lower bar. the question is what do you do when you promote people, who are not qualified yet to be L5 and L6s yet, during future perf cycles. Continue using a different measuring stick or give them poor rating when they don't measure up?
    Aug 6, 2017 6
    • Microsoft / Eng Engi
      At that stage it's necessary to continue favoring them in the perf process. Otherwise a lawyer can subpoena the perf records for women across the company, and file a class action saying that they were discriminated against, with data showing lower perf numbers
      Aug 6, 2017
    • cPanel bYtU16
      WHAT THE FUCK. "Women's lighter hand"???? Do you fucking hear yourself? Stop ascribing gender to traits.
      Aug 6, 2017
    • Amazon Jeff Bezоs
      Google has this magical 30% women while only 10-20% graduate from CS programs. Either they found a lot of super-genius women from bootcamps, or they deprived other companies of the wonderful benefits of diversity.

      Or they just lowered the bar.
      Aug 6, 2017
    • Capital One VRqA34
      What I've seen is that no one says "let's lower the bar", instead we very explicitly give preferential consideration to women. The inevitable consequence is that men HAVE to hold a substantial higher bar or else they wouldn't be in the role.
      Aug 7, 2017
  • Amazon / Other makeme
    I wonder if you just don't notice the promotions of equally poor males, because, lets face it, they're abundant. The negative culture reputation in tech companies should squarely fall on male leadership which is dominant. Ive seen far more bad male managers and non mangers receive promos and plum assignments, than I have women. They're lousy performances if not completely ignored are often overlooked and accepted. Women who don't meet the bar are suddenly a BIG issue, worthy of a career ending manifesto. I don't think we've over-corrected I think we haven't corrected enough.
    Aug 6, 2017 1
    • Facebook / Eng
      magnets

      Facebook Eng

      BIO
      Wasting time on Blind
      magnetsmore
      What amazes me, KAIF, is your ability to say absolutely nothing over several paragraphs and also fail to address any points brought up. You are truly an artist and Blind is your undeserving canvas. Teach me your ways.
      Aug 6, 2017
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • WRKSHP / Eng 999
      I feel like reading it should be a requirement to participation.
      Aug 6, 2017
    • WRKSHP / Eng 999
      C'est la vie
      Aug 6, 2017
  • Amazon / Other makeme
    I think most companies have failed in getting the message out so that it doesn't smell of affirmative action
    and unfairness to the white men. The message is how diversity of thought, not skin color, not gender, drives corp profits higher. Google wants to do this not because it's the right thing and they want to be fair to everyone, but because gender diversity is a PR and bottom line win. That's been proven with tons and tons of research and data. Where I work, the emphasis on educating current employees is non existent. The emphasis is always around hiring efforts. In my opinion, educating on unconscious bias and the value to the corporation from a profit standpoint is the message that will be more acceptable to people like this Google employee who thinks he has all the answers. This is failure on the part of the company. The messaging is flawed.
    Aug 6, 2017 1
    • Capital One VRqA34
      There isn't education in unconscious bias because it's a made up concept without grounding in reputable science. It's blaming non-existant ghosts as a rationalization mechanism. Look up outcomes of unconscious bias training and you mind recosider.
      Aug 7, 2017
  • TuneIn ibelieve
    looks like most people here disagree with it, but feel there are some valid points that should be discussed. Yet no discussion, that's interesting.
    Aug 6, 2017 3
    • Talkdesk / Other poop 💩
      There's another thread on this already, with much discussion.
      Aug 6, 2017
    • WRKSHP / Eng 999
      Where's the other thread?
      Aug 6, 2017
    • Talkdesk / Other poop 💩
      [Blind] Check out this post! Any googlers wanna talk about this manifesto? (SF Bay)
      https://us.teamblind.com/s/gEa43hGg
      Aug 6, 2017
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Amazon Jeff Balls
      I'm a liberal clown 🤡
      Aug 6, 2017
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

    • Google trekkie
      India has long been reserving 30-40% of CS class rooms for women. But I think the effect has overall been positive (no data to prove this).
      Aug 7, 2017
    • New / Eng Elementary
      Guess they chose to make an example of him. Fun times... Although, obviously not for him.

      I see support for him on Brietbart. Which may mean that this is about to get complicated and turn into bigger news in our politically divided times.
      Aug 7, 2017
    • WRKSHP / Eng 999
      I see that too, sadly. He just became a martyr....
      Aug 7, 2017
    • New / Eng Elementary
      Yes. Not to say that the monoculture thing happening doesn't need a push back.

      It's unfortunate how people can't think things through in detail and so we have to resolve things via conflict.
      Aug 7, 2017
    • Internet Brands / Product Ibbyliever
      Eh. The right will make hay while the sun shines and Google will probably face a wrongful termination suit that they may choose to settle, but at the end of the day they'll still own all our personal data. Damore brought this on himself when he made the unwise choice of posting his manifesto in a company forum and arguably creating a hostile work environment. What did he think the lawyers were going to tell Google brass to do?
      Aug 7, 2017
    • New / Eng Elementary
      It was personally unwise because he was going against a big company and a big culture.

      Otherwise, it was worth the effort to expand the conversation... And the conversation has expanded.
      Aug 7, 2017
  • New cBMA11
    Aug 7, 2017 0
  • New / Eng Elementary
    Aug 7, 2017 4
    • New / Eng
      fcktechiez

      New Eng

      BIO
      trolled you eh bud?
      fcktechiezmore
      30s?? white male.... Not sure what doesnt for the profile
      Aug 7, 2017
    • New / Eng Elementary
      Expected him to look tougher or more emotionally withdrawn.
      Aug 7, 2017
    • WRKSHP / Eng 999
      Lol he looks like Zuckerberg, but he's the polar opposite. Zuckerberg is about hiding his personal opinion and pushing everything he can for good PR. this guy didn't bother to hide much and doesn't seem to care about PR.
      Aug 7, 2017
    • New / Eng Elementary
      He released the doc to a small group as a draft to get feedback. Don't think he intended for it to be released like this.

      Zuckerberg has gotten plenty of flak over the years. We've just forgotten the attempts at demonizing Facebook over privacy and security issues, or issues like psychological experiments on users.

      Zuckerberg has also matured a ton over the years.

      I wonder... If having an active girlfriend or wife increases the chances of you having learned not to say something that women usually won't like...
      Aug 7, 2017
  • New / Eng Elementary
    I hear that firing Damore has had the intended effect of terrifying most Googlers who were openly discussing the subject, lest they be fired also.

    The headman's axe can easily quell all courage and intellectual honesty. lol
    Aug 8, 2017 0
  • Google / Eng
    aloy

    Google Eng

    BIO
    Older
    aloymore
    Come on. Y'all know he likely wrote the manifesto after failing to get promoted because of peer feedback. He's just discovered that his raw programming skills aren't enough and he is bitter.
    Aug 7, 2017 0
  • Amazon / Other livewire
    Or just people who think bigger than Conservatives who can't tolerate change even if it means higher corp profits. You'd think we'd have you at "profit and corporate."
    Aug 6, 2017 0
  • WRKSHP / Eng 999
    My thoughts on this can basically be summarized in this paper, which I think does a great job of discussing the topic the author did, but in a much better way:
    http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~ychen2/professional/GenderBalanceInUCBerkeleyEECS.pdf
    Aug 6, 2017 0
  • VictorOps / Sales 01001100
    Interesting thought: we're so consumed with saying that men and women have equal minds but at the same time we're consumed by saying they bring different views and it's necessary to have women in STEM because of this. But.. Those views are at odds with each other. Either men and women have the same minds (we don't need diversity standards) or they're different (why are we forcing women into something they aren't as well suited for?). Food for thought...
    Aug 11, 2017 1
    • New / Eng Elementary
      Yes, that is a funny but obviously correct point.

      The narrative isn't really coherent, it's excuses to achieve goals of getting more women into prominent fields and reshaping companies so that women are comfortable working in those environments (because otherwise, you won't get women working in those fields)

      As the kid said... It's hypocrisy.
      Aug 12, 2017
  • This comment was deleted by original commenter.

  • Microsoft Women>men
    Most blind posters are liberals clearly.
    Aug 6, 2017 1
    • WRKSHP / Eng 999
      Interesting username
      Aug 6, 2017