How to negotiate levels?

Apple Kdks02
Apr 1 46 Comments

2 YOE
200k

Received phone interviews from amazon, LinkedIn, Google, dropbox, snap, uber and a whole bunch of smaller companies. Everyone is ready to offer the new grad role(SDE1, IC3, L3), but no one is keen to offer a higher level (SDE2, IC4, L4). I tried to strong arm some of them into giving me a higher level by saying "if you offer me a new grad role, I'm not interested" but that didn't go in my favor.

How do I negotiate an interview for level two?

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TOP 46 Comments
  • Oath / Mgmt Atinlay1
    Entitled much?
    Apr 1 13
    • Apple alamej
      You “should be given a chance”? Why? Just because you are working on a “high impact” project? How are they supposed to know how high impact it is? Your best bet with 2yoe is to interview for L3 and if you are as good as you think you are, you will get up-leveled.
      Apr 1
    • Qualtrics nglomg
      It's all in interview performance. If you didn't get it, you didn't get it, and you don't deserve it.

      There are people with 1.5 yoe getting l4 at those places and they were also working on impactful things. You're not as special as you think, and you don't deserve a chance if you didn't show a reason to get one.
      Apr 1
    • Google / Eng Wulperting
      kdks02 - These companies are filled with great engineers and inundated with high-achieving applicants. You have almost no time in the industry, and no matter how brilliant you think you are, there are lots of other people like you out there.

      You will be leveled based on your interview performance, just like everyone else.
      Apr 1
    • New F***G
      +1 OP is nothing special
      Apr 1
    • Google zTnd3s
      it’s making me sick to see the level of entitlement. You know I can sympathize with OP though - they probably haven’t worked long enough to hit some road bumps and met stronger engineers and that can be a humbling experience. As a recent hardworking student it’s easy to feel confident and capable of anything.
      Jul 27
  • Uber Jfyv57
    lololol
    Apr 1 0
  • Oscar 🐨koala
    I mean... only 2 years.
    Apr 1 3
    • Apple Kdks02
      OP
      What do you think would be a better time frame?
      Apr 1
    • Oscar 🐨koala
      Probably another year but I don’t work at facebook so :) just a thought.
      Apr 1
    • Apple Kdks02
      OP
      Thanks.
      Apr 1
  • DXC Technology / Eng bbline2
    Just out of curiosity, how do you manage to interview with so many companies?
    Apr 1 5
    • Apple Kdks02
      OP
      Referrals, head hunters
      Apr 1
    • GoDaddy / Eng employee07
      How did you find the time? Each offer should require an onsite which would require a day off. How many days off did you take?
      Apr 1
    • Apple Kdks02
      OP
      No onsite yet, one phone screens and level discussion
      Apr 1
    • GoDaddy / Eng employee07
      Oh okay, just reread your post. I'm surprised they already specified a level for you. I believe normally they specify a level after your interviews based on the feedback.

      How do you plan on doing your on-sites of you get past all your phone screens?
      Apr 1
    • Apple Kdks02
      OP
      I will only do onsite it there's team fit, level fit.
      Apr 1
  • Google sack lunch
    L4 isn't even a new grad role, L3 is. experience can be matched by coding ability, but maturity and leadership are required for L5. my guess is you need a couple more years before you're ready for L5 roles. or, you come in L4 and prove us all wrong and you'll get L5 within a year - 1.5 years. with only 2 yoe that would still be a super fast ascent to L5
    Apr 1 2
    • Apple Kdks02
      OP
      I'm trying to interview for L4. I understand L5 is extremely competitive and I'm not ready yet. Is the post unclear?
      Apr 1
    • Amazon judgefudge
      Yeah. Not very clear. With 2YOE coming is as L3 is not so crazy. L4 could be forcing it a bit but doable. All depends on interview though.
      Apr 1
  • LinkedIn / Eng ikoke
    I'm surprised Amazon isn't prepared to interview you for SDE2. I interviewed for SDE2 at Amazon with 1.5 yoe. Google underlevels everybody, so no surprises there.
    Apr 1 8
    • LinkedIn / Eng ikoke
      Insist on SDE2 for Amazon. Google won't budge. Uber & LinkedIn probably won't.
      Apr 1
    • Apple Kdks02
      OP
      Thanks. I'll try. What is the average YOE for Senior SWE at LinkedIn?
      Apr 1
    • LabCorp / IT
      [🗿]

      LabCorp IT

      PRE
      Amazon
      [🗿]more
      For LinkedIn its 5+ yoe
      Apr 1
    • LinkedIn / Eng ikoke
      College hires can become Senior SWE in a couple of year. For industry hires, they usually look for at least 3-4 yoe.
      Apr 1
    • Apple Kdks02
      OP
      Makes sense. Thanks
      Apr 1
  • Uber
    2muchblind

    Uber

    PRE
    Apple, Microsoft
    2muchblindmore
    I’d wait it out another year at Apple, then switch if you want to get the L4. Change teams internally if you want.

    If you come in as an L3, you’d have to fight for a promotion to L4, which may be hard to do within a year.
    Apr 1 4
    • Apple Kdks02
      OP
      I am not very comfortable changing teams at apple. The process is not very employee friendly.
      Apr 1
    • Uber
      2muchblind

      Uber

      PRE
      Apple, Microsoft
      2muchblindmore
      So that hasn’t changed. What a bummer.
      Apr 1
    • New / Eng |l|l||l|l|
      No harm trying anyway, worst case you reject their offer
      Apr 1
    • Google zTnd3s
      why do you want to change teams if your work is so impactful and important?
      Jul 27
  • New / Eng |l|l||l|l|
    If you do well in the interview for Uber, they might consider you for L4 after the fact. It won't change the interview format.
    Apr 1 1
    • Apple Kdks02
      OP
      Thanks I shall do that.
      Apr 1
  • Amazon fjsg29
    Fuck you, OP.
    Jul 27 0
  • Qualtrics nglomg
    It's all based on interview performance. I was able to get l4 except for companies I didn't do the strongest at.
    Apr 1 0