I hate recruiters...

VRenetic / Product
hamming

VRenetic Product

BIO
Working...even now
hammingmore
Aug 28, 2017 38 Comments

I have been having a bit of hard time hiring some new positions in my company, mainly Unity devs. Every time I get a good lead from a recruiter, the fine prints always note they will take 20~35% of the potential employees' pay. Is this legal? How is this legal? Why these vultures take so much of someone's pay? Because they send meaningless messages on LinkedIn to bother people as their job? Yes, I'm ranting.

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TOP 38 Comments
  • Microsoft Facts
    If it is so easy, why don't you do it? Why don't you spend your time sending "meaningless messages on LinkedIn"
    Aug 28, 2017 1
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      20~30% of monthly pay...no man. That isn't right even if writing messages on LinkedIn is actually hard. Some of them also usually say they don't charge fees to the candidates. Truthfully, I have. Not as much as they do, I'm sure. (Only did less than 10 times and got 6 to reply back with 3 hires in my life.) But I don't take 20~30% off my new team members' pay.
      Aug 28, 2017
  • Uber T3B3
    What do you mean is this legal? You're a fucking idiot. It's business. Either hire your own recruiter, recruit on your own, pay the fee or don't grow your team and die.
    Aug 29, 2017 1
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      I said "How is this legal?" Not "Is this legal?" Also, not using recruiter doesn't mean I'm going to die.
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Facebook / Other nvm
    You pay for a service. Find cheaper if you can but that sounds like a standard rate unless you are big Enterprise and hire out to RPO model.

    If you have them on contract through agency then they are taking liabilities off company's hands. Laws and separation of contractors and fte and such.

    And yes, it's legal. It's a service agreement that recruiter, candidate, and employer enter into willingly when done correctly. Service to clients is employer that doesn't have enough bandwidth for in house recruiters, service for employee is if employee is unable or too lazy to do job search themselves or had an opportunity presented to them that they otherwise would not have known about.

    Don't degrade a profession unless you really understand what it takes. How do you like it when people say all PMs do is set meetings and take credit for people's work? Or engineers just bang their keyboard and glue libraries together? There's usually more to it if it survives as a business model in an open market.
    Aug 28, 2017 1
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      I will take a note on your comments about understanding other professions. I was ranting but it seems like majority of comments are very aggressive and doesn't care for what a rant is...

      However, we are not looking to fill the position thru a third-party agency. I am aware of how the company can benefit by opting out on liability. I am also aware of having a third-party contract can be problematic in some cases. I want them to have the same benefits and equal and fair compensation. If the cut was only on my company's side, we would have already approved it. However, that weren't the case for majority of the recruiting agency agreements we received.
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Amazon / Eng Aeofel
    How long do they take the 20-30% for? If it's for a short period of time then I presume there's probably some merit, but for a prolonged period of time that feels like a pretty sweet passive income generation opportunity...
    Aug 28, 2017 1
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      In the states, it is usually 6 months. In London which is the location I'm having most problem in finding hires, they ask for 1~2 years. I am seriously debating going to London and networking to find a candidate instead but I have no background in the tech culture there so it might be too rash of a judgement.
      Aug 28, 2017
  • Microsoft / Eng 20% raise
    Why not just offer higher pay and cut the recruiter?
    Aug 30, 2017 4
    • Facebook / Other nvm
      Read my response above. There can be a legal need to separate employee status if they want them as contractors. Otherwise it's a service to match employee and employer would not have found each other otherwise. Higher pay doesn't solve the issue of both parties would never have been in contact in the first place, which is the value that agencies bring.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      We are hiring full-time with benefits. We are not looking into contract positions. I was thinking about reaching out to the candidates directly, but I also remember that when I got approached by a recruiter, they ask you to sign off an agreement to only work with them if lead was initiated by them.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • Facebook / Other nvm
      If they're not a retained search firm and just one spamming you candidates (usually editing out candidate name and contact info), the candidate don't know who they're being presented to. I would consider them fair game.

      Different story if your company asked the agency to do a search for you and then you go behind their back to contact candidates they already presented to you.
      Aug 30, 2017
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      I'll try that. We had success in the states during last few days. Thanks for the tip.
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Uber T3B3
    Also, this a great way for legit recruiting agencies or recruiters to see this post and say...definitely not wasting time with VRenetic then you're really screwed. But hey, best of luck bud!
    Aug 29, 2017 1
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      Gee thanks.
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Don't use recruiters. Problem solved
    Aug 28, 2017 2
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      Yeah. But the potential hire they represent is really exciting sometimes. I wonder if they really even work with the recruiters.
      Aug 28, 2017
    • New / Product
      luuuke

      New Product

      PRE
      Amazon
      luuukemore
      Well if some of them are really exciting, use recruiters. Problem solved.
      Aug 29, 2017
  • New Wumm63
    Of course it's legal and it's standard. They get a fee corresponding to a chunk of the annual salary and in exchange, do all the searching, screening and contacting for you. If the new hire leaves within XX days, however, the fee is usually refunded. If you're too busy to deal with all that it's valuable. Or hire your own in-house recruiters to do all that - but they have their own salary/benefits. Or, spend the time doing it yourself.
    Aug 29, 2017 1
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      I am.
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Amazon / Eng Aeofel
    Years and years ago I had a recruiter take his cut for 2 years, but truth be told he was worth every damn dollar he got (and still is). He wouldn't be of much use for the Unity skills you are looking for though as it's not what he specializes in I'm afraid, nor is he in London 😂 I worked in London in the late 90's and from what I recall the hiring process was very recruiter driven at the time. Hardly any companies hired directly if memory serves me correctly but of course, many years have passed since!
    Aug 28, 2017 1
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      Maybe that's why. 🤔 Cultural difference
      Aug 30, 2017
  • New / Eng
    pheK

    New Eng

    BIO
    Node, React
    pheKmore
    You do realize the company is the one paying and not the candidate??
    Aug 30, 2017 9
    • New / Eng
      pheK

      New Eng

      BIO
      Node, React
      pheKmore
      That's absolutely false. In the US I've never heard of an agency asking the candidate for money. Furthermore, I don't see how you can attribute 100% of that fee as a cost that you otherwise wouldn't have incurred without using an agency. Even if you recruit yourself you still have to pay for tools (like LinkedIn) to connect with candidates and pay for the time that would have been better spent doing something else, like engineering.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      It is not false. Why would I make things up? Believe it or not, I do pay for LinkedIn account because I like connecting with people who have interesting skill set.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • New / Eng
      pheK

      New Eng

      BIO
      Node, React
      pheKmore
      What agency is asking candidates for money to place them? I've never seen that. The company pays the agency on contingency, only if a placement is made. Also, LinkedIn is free unless you want to send inmails to people you are not connected with. If you don't need to do that there's no reason to pay...
      Aug 31, 2017
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      Yes, I pay to have the in-mail function. There are few other perks I used to be fascinated with. No, we do not have a contract with an agency. I'm getting contacted by recruiters. Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean you can just say it doesn't exist and magically everyone with different experiences than you would disappear.
      Aug 31, 2017
    • New / Eng
      pheK

      New Eng

      BIO
      Node, React
      pheKmore
      I've owned a staffing firm for over 7 years. I'd like to think I'm familiar with most of the business models out there. I've literally never heard is an agency charging a candidate. If you've seen that, I'm interested to know what agency that is?
      Aug 31, 2017
  • Best Buy / Ops Toaf
    You're either a client or a source. That 25% might save you turnover down the road...
    Aug 29, 2017 1
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

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      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      Will keep that in mind.
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Facebook / Eng instandidl
    Why don't you negotiate the price if you don't like it
    Aug 29, 2017 1
    • VRenetic / Product
      hamming

      VRenetic Product

      BIO
      Working...even now
      hammingmore
      OP
      Actually doing that right now. And apparently, that is the usual process.
      Aug 30, 2017
  • Uber T3B3
    @20% Your decision making skills shows why you're not a C-suite or cofounder and probably (?) rank and file .net dev
    Aug 30, 2017 0
  • Product Hunt WfGk71
    This is normal. Don't like it, don't use recruiters.
    Aug 29, 2017 0