I suck at negotiating job comp, know any resources to get better?

HealthNow / Eng
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HealthNow Eng

BIO
this electronica group is my jam
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Sep 26, 2017 21 Comments

When I push back, recruiters will say things such as "oh, will you be unhappy in the position at $X ?"

What phrases do you use to get a higher compensation, better vacations, or get a better package overall at a new job?

blogs/ book suggestions welcome too.

Not sure it matters, but I'm a software developer.

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TOP 21 Comments
  • Bluebot / Other B.Dobalina
    In any negotiation, you need to always be prepared to walk away.

    If you feel the salary is low, state
    why you feel that and why you are worth what you're asking for.

    There are other things to negotiate for than base pay.

    You should always be polite and cordial, but that you unhappy comment would most likely have been returned with a sarcastic quip.
    And to me is a sign you might not want to work for them.
    Sep 26, 2017 0
  • NerdWallet / Eng Lmp9fs7
    Salary negotiations are a simple question of supply and demand: how much a company wants you, vs. what you're willing to accept. If you have an offer, you can be reasonably confident that the company has some interest in you. Then it's just a question of how much, and what their next best option is.

    Part of the trick is to know what you want in advance. Then you can de-personalize the conversation and simply state what you want. A few things that usually work:

    First, do some research. You should have a general sense of what market comp is for your role, which means you know the ballpark to expect. Then make your arguments about why you should get more. A competing offer is always the best leverage but without you can point to market comparisons, relevant work experience, unusual skill sets, etc.

    Next, just say what you expect in the role. When the recruiter makes an argument, remember that it's irrelevant and not personal. ("Would you not be happy at $x?" "It's not a question of being happy - based on my background and experience I would need an offer of $Y to make this move."). All that matters is what you can expect and what they're willing to offer. Just state calmly what you'd like to get and why.

    Finally, you need to be prepared to walk away. If you really expect something and the recruiter says no, don't cave. Say thank you and decline. They may or may not up their offer... but if you think enough up front about what you want, you won't be upset if you don't get it.
    Sep 26, 2017 0
  • Aetna LIMA
    It is very easy if you know what you want and what you will accept in advance. Let's use easy numbers:

    Let's say you do your research and you think 150k is what you'd be really happy with and 145k is what you'd be happy enough with to accept.

    Firstly, you need to be the one that gives the number. People think you don't want to give the first number, but this isn't true. The first number said becomes the anchor of the Convo and in this case, you want a high number that the Convo works down from. So in this case, I'd say that you give 157k as your desired number. Work it from there.

    No matter how they phrase the 'would you be happy with #', just reply that you expect that you'll provide value far in excess of your original number and you want to be sure that your pay is in line with the value. You can turn it around and say, do you not think that my value is #?

    Best of luck. Don't be the person answering their questions. Make statements and if needed ask questions.
    Sep 26, 2017 0
  • Jobvite / Mgmt cstmrfirst
    Your best bet is to have a better offer from another company. But if that is not the case then you can articulate your desire to be in a particular salary (base) bracket upfront and say something along the lines that your are expecting to be in this range but of course you would like to know more about the final offer to see if lower end or upper end of the range will work for you for base. This gives you some negotiation leverage when a final offer is presented and you can say something like, oh I was expecting more options but with the given options in the offer I would like to request upper end of my expected base range. Worked for me a couple of times. :)
    Sep 26, 2017 0
  • Google / Eng Gsibgrws
    Look into negotiation strategies. The most important thing is to have a BATNA — Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement (here’s my Business degree coming through...)

    Essentially, if the company is your only choice, you have no negotiating power. If you have an existing job, use your existing compensation, location, team, etc. as negotiation points. And make sure they are true! They might now accept and you need to be happy to stay in your current role.

    If you’re a new grad — you need multiple offers period.

    Recruiting is very expensive, and recruiters don’t want to tell the company they work for that they lost a qualified candidate because they refused to negotiate. That being said, they want to compensate the least amount possible, and you need a BATNA to show why $X is not something you can accept.
    Sep 27, 2017 6
    • Bluebot / Other B.Dobalina
      And. Before someone jumps on me, I know merit based performance bonuses rarely come to full fruition, this is an example, for educational purposes only.
      Sep 27, 2017
    • Google / Eng Gsibgrws
      Nope. Check out the first sentence on Wikipedia “BATNA is the most advantageous alternative course of action a party can take if negotiations fail and an agreement cannot be reached”
      Sep 27, 2017
    • Bluebot / Other B.Dobalina
      Um, yeah exactly. Your example reads "if you don't think I'm worth it, let me tell you why I'm with at least X"
      Sep 27, 2017
    • Bluebot / Other B.Dobalina
      The BATNA is process for you to determine what is most important to you in the deal, with the idea it is not always the position(price,salary, etc.)
      Sep 27, 2017
    • NerdWallet / Eng K5nf7q
      You are both using the term a little imprecisely, although the OP is basically right. As the name (Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement) implies, your BATNA is the best option you have if you can't reach a deal with a particular counterparty at all.

      So an alternative proposal, like "$100k base, 25% bonus, 50k RSU" isn't a BATNA... it's simply a counteroffer: this is still a negotiated agreement, not an alternative to one. Similarly, walking away isn't a best alternative per se to an offer - walking away means you GET your BATNA, but it isn't one itself. However, your current job may be a BATNA.

      Good examples of BATNAs in job searches would be an existing counteroffer, or the comp from your current job.

      A BATNA is useful because 1) it establishes a floor by which you can determine whether an offer is better than what you can get elsewhere, and 2) can serve as a point of negotiating leverage ("why would I take this offer, when I can do better at Google? Give me x."). In the latter case, a BATNA serves as a good indicator of what a counteroffer might be, although it's not a counteroffer itself.
      Sep 27, 2017
  • Amazon / Eng 0x5f3759df
    Never Split The Difference helped me when approaching negotiations.
    Sep 26, 2017 2
  • Oath riBV17
    https://youtu.be/km2Hd_xgo9Q this helped
    Me negotiate. What this, it's worth at least 10k
    Sep 26, 2017 0
  • Microsoft / Eng XGsa73
    Competing offers. I am interviewing at the moment with a couple of companies. Just letting them know about the competition pushes them to make better offers (at least in my case).

    Another thing I do is to give them flexibility as I usually talk about total comp rather than directly ask for more salary / stock.
    So far this worked with Google/Facebook and Amazon to some extent (they have a salary cap of 160k).

    Also, try getting offers from pre ipo startups which tend to offer higher base salary and an outageous number of shares. Those shares are worthless unless the startup goes public. However, they help a lot when you negociate with companies like Google which will try to match 75% of their estimated value.
    Sep 26, 2017 0
  • Capital One / Eng Banana777
    There's two posts on salary negotiation (and a podcast episode) on Kalzumeus.com, they've been really helpful for me
    Sep 26, 2017 0
  • Medallia / Eng
    Douglas42

    Medallia Eng

    PRE
    Oracle
    Douglas42more
    Do your homework. What is the perk differential? Are you due some sort of adjustment in your current job (inflation)? What’s the commute time? Less or more? What is the risk of the transition? Quantify it (3% raise, 5%? 10%?) Is it worth it? If moving you need to factor cost of living differences.

    If you ask for more have enough information to support your request and reason about counter offers.
    Sep 26, 2017 0
  • Intel leetdecode
    Did they make you an offer?
    Sep 26, 2017 1
    • HealthNow / Eng
      ratatat

      HealthNow Eng

      BIO
      this electronica group is my jam
      ratatatmore
      OP
      I accepted & currently work at the place that gave me that line, but i know the comp is dead average or a bit low for the area and my experience.

      i did not have competing offers at the time
      Sep 26, 2017
  • Yahoo 3xcus3M3
    It’s always easier to start off with high salary exp and negotiate down to your actual target TV
    Sep 26, 2017 0

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