If you are not in FANG+, does it make sense to move to Canada for visa stability?

Microsoft UMbR31
Sep 1 39 Comments

I've been a strong proponent of 'Apply greedy logic to US immigration even if your green card is 20+ years away, stay and save, go back to India the day your H1B is denied, Canada is not a good option'... This chart (article in comment) makes me question my own thinking.

If you're on one of these indefinitely long green card queues and don't make FANG pay, does it make sense go to Canada?

If you are not in FANG+, does it make sense to move to Canada for visa stability?
Bloomberg

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TOP 39 Comments
  • Google wFatDuck2
    Am in fang will move if gc laws do not change in next 3 years.
    Sep 1 5
    • Zynga cdev6676
      Ok with the TC drop?You will also not have anywhere else to work apart from google and amazon
      Sep 1
    • Google wFatDuck2
      I don't plan to spend the rest of my life writing software. The freedom of permanent residency sounds wonderful given the decade long wait I've already had here.
      Sep 1
    • Google
      GoogleSoft

      Google

      PRE
      Microsoft
      GoogleSoftmore
      +1
      Sep 6
    • Google wFatDuck2
      How far along are you @googlesoft
      Sep 6
    • Google
      GoogleSoft

      Google

      PRE
      Microsoft
      GoogleSoftmore
      Have 2016 priority date and some savings. Applying for PR now as a backup plan. I will move if nothing happens within next 2-3 years
      Sep 6
  • Twitch / Eng Rbg04h2kd
    Imho. Canada is an awesome place to retire in. Clean air, ample space, beautiful nature, lots of outdoor activities to do, generally more quiet and peaceful, relatively more even distribution of wealth and income so less visible extremities. But for a young person, it's definitely hard to make a living and save. Cost of living is really high, and unless you're in specific industry that pays well for hours worked, which is somewhat rare in Canada, it's typically easier to work in the US first to save before returning to Canada.
    Sep 1 0
  • Credit Karma LCboy
    No. Not worth it.
    Opportunities are too less compared to US, TC is 🥜
    Greedy approach is best. What you can earn in US in a year takes 3 years (being optimistic).
    So, spending even 10 years in US puts you 20 years ahead in Canada. You can practically retire outside US by doing greedy for 10 years (which is not much!)
    Sep 1 1
    • MongoDB tlb_miss
      Revert to do the needful
      Sep 1
  • Zynga cdev6676
    For STEM professions(Software engineers,management consultants,Product managers and bankers)it makes no sense to move.Theres a reason Canadian devs are desperate to move to the US.Most Other professions Canada wins hands down or rather America loses to the rest of the world
    Sep 1 0
  • Groupon / Eng sleepy
    It makes sense to move to Canada once you’ve a US born kid. Get Canadian citizenship and come back with T1N.
    Sep 4 5
    • Twitch / Eng Rbg04h2kd
      TN is fairly volatile though. Increased scrutiny under new administration for certain job classes. Like the economist title, people who worked at investment banks got screwed
      Sep 4
    • Groupon / Eng sleepy
      Still better than h1b.
      Sep 4
    • Twitch / Eng Rbg04h2kd
      Actually waiting for h1b right now. Tn is real shit, border agent can take it away from you anytime whereas border agent can't just take it from you at border on h1b. Also, don't need to fit under specialty occupation list for h1b
      Sep 4
    • Bloomberg / Eng F.U. money
      My ex lost her job while on T1N and though she had 30 days to leave the country. At border was told she should have left immediately. Like people don’t have leases and a life... You’re supposed to just pick up and go same day you get fired.
      Sep 4
    • Twitch / Eng Rbg04h2kd
      TN is shit. Its adjudication depends entirely on the border agent you meet that day which is entirely random. You can have a totally chill dude who doesn't bat an eye and tell you go, and you can have a MAGA hard ass who's having a bad day and just wants to fuck with you.

      Example, I walked up once and the first thing the dude said after looking at my sheet was "I'm not letting you through today"

      Me: "wtf why?"

      Dude: "you said you're a manager and that's not allowed under your visa class" (which by the way is totally false as there are no rules preventing that)

      Me: sir. I literally just came up to you and said hi, I haven't said anything else, how do you know what I do?

      Dude: gets super aggressive, "why are you lying to me? I heard you say you're a manager 10 seconds ago and you're lying to me now!?"

      I look confused cause I literally haven't said shit

      Then he went through all my documentation from uscis (which btw, I was instructed to not carry by uscis, but I do always carry it just in case of shit like this)

      Dude goes through the docs and flips through random pages very quickly, pretty sure he didn't read shit, and looks really pist off then after staring at me for a long time, tells me to get the fuck out of there

      Had I took the advice of uscis and left my documents at home, I would've been kicked out by some dude who didn't like the way I looked or sounded. And hey, maybe I'm an ugly guy or i look fucked up or my voice makes me sound fucked up, but I don't want my future fate to be dependent on some random asshole at the border who can revoke months of visa preparation on the whim cause he doesn't like me or the way I look. That's fucked up
      Sep 4
  • Facebook just_lucky
    Depends on mindset.
    One data point: Indian here, with 2012 priority date, 8 YOE, FANG, household income 420k approx, moving next year to Canada (already have Canada PR). (Note: I consider myself as less risk taking ).
    Sep 1 5
    • Microsoft UMbR31
      OP
      Wow, tell us more... What promoted the move, do you have a job etc?
      Sep 1
    • Credit Karma LCboy
      Wow.
      You are taking this move with 2012 PD (which should become current in 4-5 years, that's a bold move).
      Sep 1
    • SuneraTech AXWY54
      No he is not moving. Anybody who says he/she is moving at an arbitrary date in the future upon hitting any arbitrary statistic is not moving .
      Sep 1
    • Twitch / Eng Rbg04h2kd
      Prob waiting for his last year equity cliff to vest out and then bouncing. Although curious as to what he would do in canada. Could go to mtl to work in ai, heck could just transfer to fair maybe. Or go work for an old school bank or the govt, get half the money but more job security
      Sep 1
    • Facebook just_lucky
      LCboy: u r correct that in 4-5 years PD may be current (no guarantee though), there is always an option to comeback). But If I don’t move in next 2 years I lose my PR (certain). I feel - 'A Bird in the Hand is Worth Two in the Bush'

      twitch : FB has sales teams in Toronto and devs with temporary visa issues in Vancouver and no real eng teams (so transfer not an option). Realistically I am looking at MSFT/ GOoGL/ AMZN/SLACK/SALESFORCE/SHOPIFY etc ). I understand pay would be around 150k CAD max & assuming household income ~ 250 k CAD, in 4 years cost of leaving CA to Canada is (approx 4*75kUSD after tax = 300k USD). I am trading 300k for WLB + job security.

      OP: No I don’t have job yet (too early for mid next year move), but I am confidant to find one.
      What prompted the move: I am 32 with 8 YOE, if I don’t have stability even now (what the point in chasing TC and with no guarantee about GC)? I convince self saying - what if I am in East coast which has avg pay of $150k - 170k USD ), how different is this from Canada , I might lose in some saving but I will have peace of mind. Invest 4-5 years now and get citizenship and I will have option on TN visa & may be GC if dates move.
      I didn’t buy home in CA because of this uncertainty : What if there is a recession & u lose job ( can’t think of having house loan of 1M and losing down payment of > 200k), which is > 15 years commitment.
      Sep 2
  • Taylor Farms azerty_
    Why not India?
    Sep 1 3
    • Google Mr. GIass
      India is not a first world country. This is not hard.
      Sep 1
    • Google fghsdui5
      I just moved from US to India. Never thought it would affect me but the "First World" thing is true.
      Sep 2
    • Taylor Farms azerty_
      How did it affect you?
      Sep 2
  • Microsoft Atin|ay2
    Most of the people on Blind are at least at 9th or 10th income decile so the US makes much more sense than Canada. To benefit from moving to Canada, ur income need to be below 6th decile(around 60K according to ur chart)
    Sep 1 1
    • Microsoft UMbR31
      OP
      Most Indians educated in the US don't get green card for 20 years. Canada gives you permanent residence on day 1. So there's got to be some value for that too. It's not a pure economic arithmetic.
      Sep 1
  • Google wFatDuck2
    I have a PD that's a year later, similar household income, entertaining same thought
    Sep 1 2
    • Facebook just_lucky
      Makes sense with u didn’t already invest in house in Bay Area.
      Do u already have Canada PR, how old r u, any kid ?
      Sep 2
    • Google wFatDuck2
      No waiting for the pr. Submitted docs a week ago. Own a home outside of Bay Area , 30 no kids as yet
      Sep 2
  • Plus they have a queen so that’s cool 👸
    Sep 1 2
    • Twitch / Eng Rbg04h2kd
      We do not have a queen. We have a governer general who is the federal viceregal representative of the Canadian monarch, who to your point, is QE2. That said, the Queen has no significance to Canadian politics, and the governal general is more a figurehead than anything else
      Sep 1
    • Manulife Financial white girl
      😂😂😂
      Sep 3
  • Bloomberg / Eng F.U. money
    It’s cold AF over there.
    Sep 1 1
    • Twitch / Eng Rbg04h2kd
      In eastern cities during the winter, yes that is true. Gets down to minus 20, sometimes as cold as minus 40.

      But summer times are hot. And west coast cities like Vancouver are fine all year long.
      Sep 1
  • Amazon OdpS15
    Yes.
    Sep 2 0
  • Expedia Group / Eng 🌞hire🌞me
    No it doesn't make sense because i am not an Indian
    Sep 1 0