If you aren’t actively helping women/minorities, you’re a bigot

Apple LmKbs7a
Jun 11 105 Comments

How is it that in 2019 we still have such a lack of diversity and over representation of cis gendered white/Asian males at tech companies?

It’s high time we start calling a spade a spade. If you don’t mentor or help lift up those underrepresented you are a bigot who is holding back progress

For the bigots who aren’t doing their part to improve diversity in tech, just know that we are coming for you. You will be outed, and you will be replaced.

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TOP 105 Comments
  • Salesforce lets
    Wonder how many men OP has helped.
    Jun 11 26
    • Clover Health sses
      Prior to the US civil war, making land prices the same for all doesn't help the enslaved, because they had no money and couldn't own land.

      Post civil war, making land prices the same for all still isn't equality, because white-collar (read higher-paying) jobs are often filtered by nepotism and groupthink. Because of this, typically white people still hold a larger portion of jobs and can afford more "land."
      Jun 11
    • New / Data tl14fc
      Is anyone else bothered by the differences between the percentages and the pie charts?
      Jun 12
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      Then you fix the nepotism and groupthink. It's pretty easy to argue that has been accomplished--and perhaps the pendulum swung a bit too far. Didja see the poll results? Some companies' policies have led to hiring managers straight-up discarding white male applications on the basis of ethnicity and gender.

      It's only wrong when it hurts a PoC or a non-male, I guess.

      Once more, that's not equality.
      7d
    • Clover Health sses
      When you have inequality, adjusting for equality is not inequality. That's a fundamental fact. You're right that it's not wrong when it's white or male. That's part of the highly skewed reality.

      Let's put it in STEM terms. Is 100 = 200 equal? Nope. How do you adjust it? You either add 100 to the left or subtract 100 from the right (or a combo of both). That adjustment is literally the act of making them equal. Now, substitute these numbers with the variance between industry demographics and reality.

      If it's pretty easy to argue that we have fixed nepotism and groupthink, by all means? The human brain and condition is difficult to fight, or am I wrong? Hell, our industry typical rewards nepotistic referrals.

      You can say it's not equality over and over and over. That doesn't make it any less false.
      7d
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      You're confusing opportunity with results.

      As long as everyone has equal opportunity, that's equality.

      Results vary based on a host of variables people like you love to ignore.

      Btw, you can't just flatly claim someone else is wrong with zero evidence or logic and maintain any degree of credibility.

      Companies should always be permitted to hire the most qualified candidate, even if it means another white dude gets the gig. And you can bet your ass I support that same company selecting a non-white, non-male, too...but not on the basis of race or gender.
      You can't say two things that are definitively unequal are somehow fair and just.

      That you think discrimination (in any direction) is acceptable simply makes me hope you never make it into a position of power; you're demonstrating your own ineptitude and inability to think logically.
      6d
    • Clover Health sses
      Once again, and read it twice if you need to: It's not discrimination when it's adjustment to reality. You have no basis to claim that either candidate in any scenario is better than the other. You're just making up hypotheticals to support your fear. I don't even need to hear your thoughts on voter fraud too.

      Nice try with the ad hominem though. I thought we were above that. Guess not.
      6d
    • Unity ThlD23

      You dirty ingrate. I don’t care if you are American born, that statement alone should get you deported. That is disrespectful to every man that gave his life willingly so that you could enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. No body is whining that men had to sacrifice their lives to protect their families back home. Stating facts isn’t whining. Go say that to some vets.. let me know how that goes for you, I'm sure they'll appreciate how little value you have for what they fought to preserve.
      6d
    • Clover Health sses
      Throwing up stats cherry-picked and skewed to support confirmation bias isn't facts.

      Nice try though with the nationalistic appeal to emotion. The dead care for nothing. They're dead. Furthermore, their "fight" was for freedom, and that was over two hundred years ago.
      6d
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      You are dead wrong. You want me to be right-wing--you want it desperately.

      And that's simply not the way of it. Both sides suffer from a dearth of nuance. I'm more of moderate (on the global spectrum, so...more left-wing on the US spectrum).

      But there are absolutely things the left gets wrong, so here we are.

      I don't fear voter fraud. Frankly, our voting system is so fraught with problems that voter fraud doesn't even make a top-10 list.

      And you won't convince many rational adults that doing something wrong to a group of people to benefit another group is a good idea. It's a slippery slope, a bad idea, and it's detrimental to any sort of equality.

      Justify it any way you'd like, it's bullshit.
      6d
    • Clover Health sses
      Honestly, who gives a shit where you lean other than the toilet? Our political system is a wash from a rational, reasoned reality.

      You still have no basis to claim your claims. They're simply personal beliefs. Statisticslly, those who follow one conspiracy theory tend to believe in others with greater occurrence. I just happened to posit another that is ripe with racist overtones, Occum's Razor and all.

      I'm not justifying anything. I'm simply saying your position doesn't make a lick of sense except from a standpoint of fear and racism.

      Lean on the slippery slope all you want, if fallacies are your thing. It definitely doesn't make you any more sound.
      6d
  • AppDirect rocky_road
    How many women/black did you see in your computer science class? Do you think the school don’t accept them, or most of them are not interested in this field?
    Most of the software engineer candidates are male, can you suggest how to fix that first?
    Jun 11 9
    • CVS Health Canada🇨🇦
      True, no wonder why is there so much gender discrimination in QA jobs 😁
      Jun 11
    • Apple LmKbs7a
      OP
      There are plenty of brilliant women and minority engineers who don’t have a computer science degree.

      Why discriminate against them because they don’t conform to your standard?
      Jun 11
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      Because the same standards should apply to all applicants?

      How are you gonna suggest we just give these jobs to people without regard for their qualifications or aptitude? Being brilliant != tech aptitude.

      This is getting insane; I honestly thought your OP was a troll post.
      Jun 11
    • Apple LmKbs7a
      OP
      If one group of applicants has been systematically favored due to the patriarchy and another disadvantaged it would only make sense to level the playing field
      Jun 11
    • AppDirect rocky_road
      I think the NBA discriminate against Asian, they should replace half of the black players with Asian.
      Jun 11
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      You don't level the playing field by allowing one group to skirt the standards. How does that solution sound remotely viable to you?

      If you want to see more female engineers, you must increase interest in STEM fields (which is already being done, as evidenced by my daughter's KINDERGARTEN curriculum). Then you must ensure women have control over their bodies and sufficient sex education to avoid derailing their careers via accidental child-rearing.

      You can't seriously think companies should simply drop qualifications/requirements for female applicants?
      Jun 11
    • Clover Health sses
      The standards are wrong when your representation is highly skewed from reality.
      Jun 11
    • GM Financial / IT Nataku
      Please elaborate.
      Jun 11
    • Tableau datapete
      @GM Stop looking for Stanford CS grads and look at other avenues. Even Google research study’s show your cs degree has virtually no impact on your ability to code vs self taught or other degree.
      Jun 11
  • Salesforce lets
    Troll post
    Jun 11 0
  • Microsoft / Eng xdxdxdx
    Curious if females in nursing/teaching jobs are supposed to help males to do their part in improving diversity.
    Jun 11 5
    • Apple LmKbs7a
      OP
      Nurses and teachers weren’t responsible for electing a racist, sexist neonazi to the highest office in the country.

      I wonder what facebooks response during the 2016 campaign would’ve looked like if there were more minorities in decision making roles
      Jun 11
    • Unity ThlD23
      Men don't do into nursing because they see female-coded jobs as inferior. I would love to see your data on women gatekeeping the teaching profession; men probably don't enter it because they can't make "fatFIRE"
      Jun 11
    • Nvidia Bjfu87
      Yes? The lack of male role models in teaching is an actual issue, and more male nurses are needed due to the amount of physical work needed in nursing (lifting heavy patients, etc - men are generally taller and stronger than women so can better assist with this)

      I support the OP's claim of helping diversity, though perhaps not to the level of calling non-mentors bigots, and supporting diversity works both ways.
      Jun 11
    • Amazon Bill.
      🙄 OP, I thought the voters were responsible for the election results. Along with those who stayed home and and didn't bother. Only 60% of the voting eligible vote.
      Jun 11
    • Microsoft / Eng xdxdxdx
      @Apple, sorry but I've no idea about US politics.
      @Nvidia, I rather support helping individual irrespective of majority/minority.
      @Unity, nursing was just an example of female-dominated job.
      Jun 11
  • New / Ops
    tooQ10

    New Ops

    PRE
    Rakuten USA
    BIO
    Obligatory: YoE 20, TC 41k. Such is life for us non-SWE office monkeys!
    tooQ10more
    Funny how we only ever talk about gender and ethnicity in these situations. Physical disabilities barely get mentioned. Imagine the most privileged WASP male who suddenly suffered from impaired vision and could no longer have a driver's license. He would lose far more employment and social opportunities than he would if he were a different race, or gay. But today's social justice movement doesn't give a fig for physical handicaps anymore. They can be shockingly dismissive.
    Jun 11 3
    • Nvidia Bjfu87
      That's absolutely an issue that needs attention, true. This isn't a zero-sum game, we can help more than one set of people at a time, but you're correct that the current social justice movement doesn't focus on physical handicaps (at least I haven't seen so, and I'm pretty active in that community). Do you know of any advocacy organizations I can read up on?
      Jun 11
    • Libbey Inc. gcit
      Depends on where you look. Organizations like the National Diversity Council support all of the individuals you mentioned.
      Jun 11
    • New / Ops
      tooQ10

      New Ops

      PRE
      Rakuten USA
      BIO
      Obligatory: YoE 20, TC 41k. Such is life for us non-SWE office monkeys!
      tooQ10more
      I don't know of any, which is why it's so frustrating to see mainstream social justice activists not care.

      You may be able to guess that the above example comes from personal experience. If I could magically be 100% white Anglo Saxon Protestant, or have my partial blindness alleviated, I know which one I'd pick, and it wouldn't be WASP-hood.

      I ended up leaving the USA to live in a highly urbanized country where not only can I walk everywhere and take the train to work, but I even get a tiny tax break for my disability. All impossible in the USA. I'd love to join hands with other oppressed and downtrodden people, but when I say, "I've got problem A, you've got problem B, let's work together to solve them," the responses I got were more like "how dare you think you're treated as badly as we are!"; no cooperation at all. I'll gladly help others but not if they dismiss people like me.
      Jun 11
  • Unity ThlD23
    You're either a troll or the dumbest white knight in the room
    Jun 11 0
  • New / Eng
    bigfangs

    New Eng

    PRE
    Micro Focus
    bigfangsmore
    I'm a minority who hasn't done much to help minorities in tech. Don't think that makes me a biggot
    Jun 11 3
    • Oath Atinlay2
      OP disagrees
      Jun 11
    • Apple LmKbs7a
      OP
      Can I ask why? Don’t you want to live in a world where you aren’t the _only_ minority in a room?
      Jun 11
    • New / Eng
      bigfangs

      New Eng

      PRE
      Micro Focus
      bigfangsmore
      Absolutely, but I feel like the time I could spend leetcoding today, or developing my own skills early in my career are more important to me than giving back. although it sounds selfish, it's the most genuine answer I can give
      Jun 11
  • IBM db4z6f
    This is why I’ll never hire a woman 🙄
    Jun 11 3
    • Clover Health sses
      Chad, we all know why you would never hire a woman.
      Jun 11
    • Microsoft stpD71
      IBM that's why I don't go to IBM. Dumb. My report chain has two woman managers. I am very happy under their leadership.
      Jun 11
    • IBM db4z6f
      Diversity (of gender and race) is the only thing IBM does well. There are lots of brilliant Women and minority engineers here.

      There are plenty of other reasons not to work at IBM. Like age discrimination.
      Jun 12
  • Intel babubhatt
    Appreciate your enthusiasm for helping under-represented groups - mentoring and advocacy can be great help. My two cents: those not helping aren’t necessarily bigots (most probably aren’t) and calling people bigots doesn’t make them more likely to help/join the cause.
    Jun 11 4
    • Apple LmKbs7a
      OP
      It’s the same with bullying, if you are a bystander then you are just as culpable as the bully
      Jun 11
    • Intel babubhatt
      My point is that it’s a lot more productive to engage with those “bystanders” on why its important to get involved, and calling them names doesn’t help anybody and alienates.
      Jun 11
    • Apple LmKbs7a
      OP
      No it is a wake up call.

      Too many people taking a soft stance on the issue. It’s time we make a stand and make change happen. It’s 2019.
      Jun 11
    • Clover Health sses
      Have to side with Apple here. Intel, you don't need to necessarily take a harder stance, but I wouldn't correct anyone for being more aggressive. We've systematically and institutionally shut out minorities and women from most white-collar positions and positions of power and wealth. It has historically been done aggressively.
      Jun 12
  • Clover Health sses
    "...calling a spade a spade."

    You could start by not using a phrase often misinterpreted as a slur. Be mindful of your words as an ally.
    Jun 11 0
  • CVS Health Canada🇨🇦
    and the🏆 for the most stupid post of the day goes to ..... ☝️
    Jun 11 0
  • Microsoft stpD71
    Isn't this discriminating against white/Asian?
    Jun 11 18
    • Amazon cddjrksn
      It is ideal enough if you think about the first generation immigrant family living in an underground apartment vs a lower-income family living in a single family home. The kids in the first family became middle-income when they grew up and the kids in the second family remained lower-income.
      Jun 11
    • Amazon cddjrksn
      That does not change the fact that professional women are doing great in many positions.
      Jun 11
    • Clover Health sses
      Seriously, look at the dude's comment. No matter what, he says he would never hire a woman. This is the kind of attitude that makes your ideas pipe dreams instead of reality.

      It does change the fact, because these people (there are plenty more like him) exist. Even though you and I can see women being equally as capable, this guy isn't willing to entertain that. It's no longer even down to merit.
      Jun 11
    • Amazon cddjrksn
      He is just one person, not representing all people. If a small fraction of people’s unfairness makes you lose trust in the whole society, you’ll never feel even a little bit fairness.
      Jun 11
    • Clover Health sses
      You assume he's a small fraction? Forgive the insinuation, but do you see who we elected as our leader?
      Jun 11
    • Microsoft stpD71
      cddjrksn, if you are in Washington state, please take a look at https://waasians4equality.org I'm curious why Indian community is so quiet on I1000.
      Jun 11
    • Amazon cddjrksn
      The last presidential election showed that the lower-income class in rural areas felt underrepresented in the economy growth. They want wealth redistribution and labor-based jobs from overseas. I don’t think they had opinions about women. I don’t like Trump but Hillary is a hypocrite, that has nothing to do with her gender.
      Jun 11
    • Clover Health sses
      I wasn't advocating for the other party. Besides, they're both hypocrites, so advocating for one over the other, but using that as an argument, does show bias. Please don't be an apologist for any politician.

      I'm just pointing out that we are the company we keep. There are more Chads (the dude above you) than you might want to see, and they do affect realistic representation.
      Jun 12
    • IBM db4z6f
      The dude above you was trolling because this post is ridiculous. When it comes to social issues a lot of “smart engineers” lose all critical thinking skills. Give it a rest.
      Jun 12
    • Clover Health sses
      Okie dokie, Chad 😘
      Jun 12
  • Evernote huhuhuh
    It’s hilarious how ironic this post is. What so you think underrepresented minorities aren’t everywhere so the solution is to hold their hands and walk them to the finish line? Gimmie a break — women and minorities are doing great and I appreciate there are more opportunities for them to get into the tech scene. Sure, we’re not there yet but I’m not gonna bend over to help them. I’ll help them if they ask or on my team but I’m nit gonna actively search to help them. They really need to break in on their own.

    I find that some of the orgs that focus on teaching minorities is a great start — the education isn’t necessarily better but it’s available for THEM so THEY can succeed on their own. Other orgs that just try to get them free passes naively solve the problem of diversity but are detrimental in the long run. What ends up happening is you get a super junior dev who is a minority and the team hates em because they have to continue hand holding to educate em on basic stuff.

    Diversity is a complex problem. People think it’ll be fixed over night. It won’t. Give it time we’re making progress.
    Jun 11 0
  • Microsoft / Eng xdxdxdx
    🍿
    Jun 11 0
  • Oath Atinlay2
    🙄
    Jun 11 0
  • Google 🎄fiddy
    Chill out
    Jun 11 1
    • KnowBe4 TLLB45
      Wow ur lucky this is a anonymous app. A response like that from a googler is grounds for firing!
      Jun 12
  • New bricked
    You should first look at the minorities themselves as one of the causes why there are so few women in the workplace: in many situations I personally observed it’s women who mostly act detrimentally against other women in the team, not men who typically are very chill. Typical case is a team meeting, and when a woman talks, another one immediately corrects her in a very condescending tone.
    Jun 11 0
  • Twitter iyi
    K
    Jun 11 0
  • Expedia metapod
    🙄
    Jun 11 0
  • KnowBe4 TLLB45
    Is this a real post I still can’t tell if we are getting trolled? If you are a troll, please.. teach me
    Jun 11 1
    • Amazon Bill.
      this whole post is just trolling
      Jun 11
  • Visa EffOffBoy
    I know people who actually think like this so idk if troll
    Jun 12 0
  • IBM db4z6f
    This entire post gave me cancer. Now I’m disabled. Where’s my job at Google?
    Jun 12 0
  • Yawn
    Jun 11 0
  • Juniper UsA51
    Lol
    Jun 11 0
  • Microsoft / Eng mfCG87
    Diversity should be about empowerment, not entitlement. There is a very fine line in between the two.
    Jun 12 1
    • IBM db4z6f
      This I can agree with. Only smart comment in the bunch.
      Jun 12
  • Amazon amaholic
    Do you know how hard it is for a stranger to mentor someone, let alone a woman?
    Jun 11 1
    • Oracle SfsM37
      Yes, wouldn't this be bigoted to go try to teach a random person because of their race and gender
      Jun 12
  • AppDirect rocky_road
    OP is an idealist.
    Jun 11 1
    • Amazon jgudhejfk
      No, a weirdo. If someone tries to help OP, OP would say “you think a woman cannot own it and work it out”. If someone does not help, OP would say “you are bigot if you don’t help me out”. No one can help OP until OP gets out of the stubborn thoughts.
      Jun 11
  • Indeed Boss Lady
    Troll post.
    Jun 11 0
  • Akamai Technologies
    One day.. one day.
    Jun 11 0

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