- Currently at Amazon, previous FANG exp
- Primarily recruited for tech and engineering
- Love a good recruiter joke
- Currently at Amazon, previous FANG exp
- Recruiter TC is anywhere from 90-120 and 150-200 depending on level (5/6). With the gains in stock, many recruiters that have been here are punching well above their weight.
I’ve trained many engineers to be recruiters and they’ve become absolute rockstars. Happy to take it offline if you’re interested.Mar 24, 2018 6
- I think any recruiter with a minimum of 6 weeks of recruiting experience has a “crazy candidate story”. Seriously. Ask any of us.
Had a PM wear a Hello Kitty T-shirt and matching backpack to an interview one time.
Had a senior engineer refuse to sign an NDA because he “had already told his family he was interviewing with Company X and if he signed that, he’d be lying”.
Had a junior engineer (intern-level) ask if he’d get to meet Jeff Bezos before/after his interview and (thinking he was joking) I replied “probably not” with a chuckle to which the candidate replied “Oh, is he out of the office today then?” Precious.
Ugh. I need a drink.Mar 22, 2018 53
- Why do recruiters try to join my LinkedIn network without even sending me a message first?
- Recruiting is a cutthroat world. Most recruiters in tech experience response rates significantly <50% and, depending on role, could even be <20%. Some recruiters would rather spend that 30 seconds to write a message to connect with you while others would rather connect with 10 other profiles without sending a message. Not saying it’s right, just explaining the mentality.Mar 22, 2018 5
Recruiters on LinkedInMar 23, 2018 17
- New Dr StramoreWhat works best in salary negotiations aside from competing offers?
- Be honest, be reasonable. Recruiters are mostly aware of what other companies pay for each role. If you ask for a $350,000 base and I know you’re an E4 at Facebook, I’ll tell you to have a nice day. Additionally, flat out asking for a number is okay, so long as it’s not lightyears away from the original offer. I’d much rather a candidate come to me and say “Thanks for the offer of $150,000 and 100 shares. If you can get me $155,000 and 110 shares, I’m prepared to agree” than to say “This offer wasn’t what I wanted. Can you do better?”Mar 22, 2018 26
- Amazon fly6sixWhat happens if candidates decides to back out after accepting an offer(Current company offers higher pay ) ? Are companies willing to negotiate then ? Does candidate get blacklisted?
- I’m actually a bit surprised. Your reasoning is completely justified. Sorry to hear that the recruiter didn’t seem to agree. Recruiters at Google (or any other major tech firm) know that the cost of living is higher in SF than just about anywhere else in the US. I’m surprised they didn’t even consider it. After all, it would be in their best interest. The offer they gave you no longer has the same draw it once did. You’re just trying to make a smart decision and the playing field has changed.
The manager that would be your new manager may know. It’s routine for recruiters to have open dialogue with hiring managers about pending candidates, regardless of where they are in the process. That being said, I don’t think anything would come of it. I’ve only seen a handful of offers rescinded and it’s usually after multiple, repeated, attempts to re-negotiate. At this point, it sounds like you’ve got a decision to make. Godspeed.Mar 23, 2018 5
- I was really surprised as well. They put up a lot of resistance to matching any of my offers initially. I think the recruiter was really counting on the Google brand name. They downslotted me too, so my other offers(some from unicorns) were much higher than what they initially offered.
Thanks for the advice - you sound like a great recruiter. If you’re in the Bay Area, I’ll buy you a coffee when I get there.
- Still rather odd but with moving down to the lower level, that could very well have played a factor. Perhaps the offer they presented was already towards the higher end of the lower level? Obviously can’t say for sure.
I really appreciate the kind words. I’ll pass on the coffee at this time but any Ethereum donations can be sent to...haha. I’m kidding. Best of luck with whatever next steps you choose to take!
- Facebook zguj21I don't have any questions, but thank you for doing this -- you sound like a great person, and a recruiter I'd love to work with some time! Cheers.
- Hi OP, thank you for your time and answers here.
Could you elaborate on the incentives of a recruiter?
Are you incetivized to get people lower TC or higher TC? How are recruiters measured other than how many people sign the offer?
- Sure. So, as I’ve said a couple times, I’m not aware of any companies who incentivize recruiters to offer candidates less money. Obviously we can’t offer $1,000,000 to every single candidate but I don’t know of any policy, reward system, or initiative to try and “save money” on each offer.
The war for talent is INCREDIBLY challenging. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense for Google/Amazon/Facebook/Company X to say, “Hey, we’re industry leaders and pioneering initiatives in our space and we need to hire the best and brightest but try to screw them out of every dollar you can.” That conversation DOES NOT happen, nor does it make any sense. It’s hard enough to find the right candidates and get them to accept our offer (when candidates typically interview multiple places at once) so does it really make sense for recruiters to fight the talent war with our TC arm tied behind our back? It doesn’t. I might even go as far to say that if I, as a recruiter, interviewed at a company where lowering TC was incentivized, that would be a big red flag for me.
Recruiters typically have a base and stock, just like other employees. Other companies may have a bonus they offer as well. KPI’s that get reviewed are things like your phone interview to onsite ratio, on-site to offer ratio, offer acceptance rates, any project work you’ve done, and similar things like this. Again, I’m not aware of any incentives regarding a candidate’s TC.Dec 8, 2018 8
- Cruise Automation NanixDThis is the most asked question on this thread and most confused perception people have about recruiting. Recruiters are measured first and foremost by offers accepted. Project work like talent mapping, streamlining hiring processes, etc. Being a team player and training others is also evaluated.
There are funnel metrics like conversion ratios from onsite to offer or technical screen to onsite and recruiter screens to technical screens that they keep track of for their hiring managers to identify bottlenecks. Although it may vary company to company and level of difficulty on roles, I’d say typically 6-8 offer acceptances a quarter is fair for Individual contributor roles. Offer acceptances usually are around 60-80%.
Recruiters do not control compensation that’s the compensation teams job and requires the hiring managers approval for proper leveling. A recruiter can influence compensation by providing compensation expectations and advocating proper leveling based on interview performance and how a candidate complements or augments the current team. If you have multiple offers it’s in your best interest to be transparent so the recruiter can leverage that data to their comp team and say “we will lose X if we can’t adjust our total comp to be at least equal to XYZ or higher” in either base/equity/sign-on. Sometimes there is also misleveling and recruiters will be able to influence both the hiring manager and comp team for proper leveling. Ex) Someone is clearly a senior/staff but the team can’t seem to level correctly
The only recruiters who are incentivized by negotiating higher compensation packages would be contingency recruiters who receive commission as a large portion of their compensation. Agencies can charge 10-25% placement fees. Typically average around 18%. Lower for Recruitment process outsourcing models and high volume roles or non-technical.
Recruiters care about hires so they don’t care if your compensation is high or low as long as you accept. Obviously the happier you are the more likely you’ll stay and makes it easier for the recruiter since they won’t need to backfill your position. Ive never seen recruiters be given mandates to offer low TC, but there are companies with less resources so it just comes down to less room for negotiation to offer competitive packages.
Most recruiters will get the bulk of their hires from sourcing, referrals, agency, and inbound. (50%, 30%, 15%, 5%) They will be scrutinized if agency fees are the bulk of their hires and costing a lot, but it depends on the stage and lifecycle of the company. Good recruiters build strong sourcing operations to scale hiring and limit agency usage to augment their hiring needs. Referrals are easy wins having attestation that people are good from prior work experience or knowledge of their performance at other companies helps significantly. Hence some recruiters leverage strong relationships to build a great referral network. Inbound is usually pretty low pass through, hence people often recommend getting into companies via referrals.
Sourcers find candidates and do the initial outreach and get them through the initial screen and technical interviews. More focused on top line funnel. Will often be measured by # of outreach, response rates, and Offers extended. They can be rewarded for project work like talent mapping and increasing sourcing channels from unconventional sources. (Github, dribble, google scholar, patent reviews, meetups, networking events) Some sourcers are pure lead generators not as common but they will schedule calls and not have to actually screen. Some agencies or firms outsource this function to India or use automated systems.
A recruiter handles the onsite interview stage, pre onsite sync, onsite wrap up and offer negotiation. They’re responsible for managing a hiring manager relationship and calibrating interviewing teams with feedback to drive better hiring practices. Fix problems with bad interviewers, biases, overly complex hiring criteria. More experienced recruiters do knowledge-base building and create materials for training their hiring teams and recruiting teams. Interview banks, biases training, technical screening methodology. (Hackerranks/leetcode problems/take home tests) The recruiter will often lean on their experience and hiring teams to create challenges.
Recruiters compensation varies based on company and in-house vs. agency. Agency can start off $30-40k + commissions to get towards $60-100k range for fresh grads and former sales people. The bad ones typically spam and use mailing lists and tell you to leave XYZ company for contract to hire or a lower level role. Good training grounds for hustle and learning the market so most startups and big tech will poach after 2-3 years of agency experience, since they don’t have to invest in training. In-house depending on startups or FANGs can range from contract to hire at $30-90+/hr to $50-180k+ Base salary. Some companies do Bonuses but not as common for startups. (5-15%) Equity is usually provided instead of the bonus. Senior recruiters can make the higher range $100-200k depending on years of experience usually 10+ and will have both agency and 5+ years of in-house experience. They want someone to build recruitment processes and manage their agency fees while also training junior staff. Provide interviewer training and scale hiring practices.
There is also executive search firms or leadership recruiters. Much more white glove service and high touch. 2-4 hires in a quarter might be considered great if you’re looking for engineering managers and above or staff level hires. Searches can last 3-6+ months on retainers starting around 100k but it depends. Fees are usually 30%. Those firms usually have consultants or associates paid $100k+ for base and additional bonus. Teams of experienced researchers do the competitive intelligence and market research work. Where the recruiters help manage the client relationships and engagements. Every tech company has some exec firm on retainer. But naturally as companies become more enterprise scale they build their own teams to lower costs.
Finally there is a recruitment consultant who can charge an hourly rate I’ve seen $100-200+/hr they can act like a management consultant but for recruiting. Prior experience building and scaling recruitment processes. They can help build rules of engagement and fix compensation issues such as leveling and offer practices. Ex) maybe they helped implement an offer form that provides better data integrity for compensation analysis.
Long post but hope that helps!! Appreciate OP for being so responsive and setting a good example for recruiters.Dec 8, 2018 11
- Non-tech Recruiter at Amazon here. OP is being just a tad coy. Not sure why, this is Blind. Base for an L5 is mid 80’s. With stock vests, (15%) I made $134k in 2017. Next year if stock hangs around 1500-1590, I’ll make $187k. I joined when stock price was at 329. And granted 155 shares. Not sure what FB is paying L5 non tech recruiters but doubt it’s that high. Also we are measured on everything and there is a bonus for diversity on sites, not hires. Bonus means if you don’t make required hires for the quarter, these bonus points can make up for it. If production drops two quarters in a row, they can pivot you. Fucking cut throat as shit at Amazon, but that’s because they hate recruiters. Everyone thinks it’s an easy job. Can’t wait to fully vest and I’m getting out. Easier way to make a living than that b.s.
- Facebook / Eng marsiannOP, AMA - ask me anything - doesn't mean you havre to answer everything. Share what you are comfortable with, don't get pressured into something that can potentially affect your work/career.
It's better to have a couple AMAs with people who answer some questions than 0 AMA with people answering all questions.Mar 24, 2018 3
- Salesforce yOBl76Do tech recruiters have a monthly quota to hit and do they persuade/dissuade candidates from teams depending on any particular incentive?
- Companies handle quotas different ways but typically, there’s a “X hires per month” quota. The quota is kind of weird because it’s usually a generality but sourcing teams may be identifying candidates from different job families. For example, if we have a “3 Hires per month” quota and my teammate hires 3 junior engineers and I hired 1 principal engineer, they had an average month and I had a great month. Basically, there is a quota number, but a number of different factors make up how the hire numbers are interpreted.
My pay indirectly works with the quota. I don’t think quota changes all that much by level but moreso by what roles you’re hiring for. So, let’s say my quota is 12 hires per year and I make 18, I’ll probably achieve a higher performance rating and thus, a bigger raise, but it’s not like the quota itself influences our pay directly if that makes sense.Mar 26, 2018 1
- Exactly. It’s a number that we’re definitely targeting and shooting for but there’s a lot of context that goes into it too. For example, if everyone on my team has a 3 hire per month quota and my teammate and I each only hit 20 hires for the year, we obviously fell short. But if my teammate is recruiting for IT support employees and I’m recruiting for Director-level employees, and we each hired 20 people for our roles, then my 20 hires looks WAY better than my teammates 20 hires. The quota system is a loose guide that carries some weight but by itself, isn’t the judge and jury.Mar 26, 2018 1
- Google squishAmazon recruiting is all about the numbers. And it’s not just total # hired, but success % and other metrics. Don’t forget it’s Day One, so if your target this year was 12 but you hit 18, then your target next year can be 18 and how you did last year is no longer relevant.Mar 27, 2018 0
- Do you blacklist candidate?
Recently I declined Amazon as they couldn’t match Facebook offer. SDE3 and E5.
- I blacklist people who either ask to be removed from our database (in which case, I don’t want to bother them further) or people who are overwhelmingly, undeniably, rude. If I send you an email about my new team in (City) and you respond with a profanity-ridden manifesto about how awful my company is and multiple middle finger gifs, I’m going to assume you don’t care about burning a bridge in which case, I’ll happily burn it for you.
In your case, unless you were a huge jerk about how awful Amazon’s offer was, I’d be surprised if you were blacklisted. At the end of the day, you thought the Facebook opportunity (comp, projects, team, etc) was better than the Amazon opportunity. I might be bummed you didn’t take my offer, but I’m not going to be spiteful about it. In fact, if I’m any good at my job, I’ll ping you in 6 months and ask how Facebook is and let you know the door is always open if you want to work with me again.Mar 22, 2018 13
- I got a rejection email from one of the recruiters, I asked for the feedback, she provided one.
That’s the only recruiter joke I have got.
- Microsoft ShippedItI have never seen a single person on Blind, besides you, supply such thoughtful and in depth answers for such a sustained amount of time. You're probably an amazing person, and that really shows here! Thanks for helping all of us. :)
- Shazam mtgathe real question is how have you had time to write these essays for the past 3 months?
- Google Duplex. Kidding.
Honestly, I’ve just been so fascinated by the questions. Getting all of these questions has been awesome because it’s given me insight into what some of my candidates may want to know or may be concerned about. Thanks to you all, I have a better idea of what people may be worried about around offer time or why someone is nervous about communication from recruiting teams. That kind of stuff helps me learn to be more transparent about what’s happening in the hiring process or how to potentially anticipate a candidate’s concern ahead of time and have solutions prepared.
Long story short, this has made me a better recruiter and that’s been awesome to experience. I love coming back to these questions and helping everyone out, all while learning at the same time!Jun 8, 2018 8
- Apple 3wrmjjWho decides the maximum compensation package, and who decides which numbers to throw out first to the candidate? Is base vs RSU vs sign-on bonus equally easy to give on (if not, why is one easier than the others)?
- Sort of. If we have that information, it’s either because we have researchers who are very good at what they do and they’ve uncovered that information OR it’s because we’ve recently hired a number of people from one company and through our interactions with them, we can build a loose model of what those numbers may look like. I think this is more prevalent with related companies like Amazon/Facebook/Google/the like versus a FANG company knowing that about a company in a different industry/not a direct competitor.
- Amazon HdctddTo build on that and answer another question you had, my recruiters always put together an offer and show it to me as the HM before sending it to the candidate. I think there’s only been one time where I had the recruiter adjust their initial offer and that was because it would have put that candidate too low in pay compared to the rest of my team. She ended up changing the numbers around slightly so that the first two years were about the same as the initial offer but the back two would be higher based on how our stock has been growing.
I’m not sure if all recruiters confirm with the Hm first though. I would imagine they would because I’d be pissed if the recruiter offered too low on their own and the candidate declined. As a manager I’m much more comfortable when we make an initial offer that the candidate likes rather than having to negotiate. It makes me feel more comfortable that they aren’t going to get upset later due to comp. Dealing with people unhappy about comp sucks, there’s very little I can do as a manager to fix that even though I’d love everyone on my team to make significantly more.Mar 23, 2018 5
- This is a really great point. I do work with the hiring manager on offers because after all, the candidate is going to their team. I want to deliver a happy employee.
Additionally, hiring managers know what their team is making so if their team has 5 SDE2’s on it and we’re hiring you as our 6th SDE2, I would want to work with the hiring manager to make sure we’re making an offer that’s reasonably close to the other 5. Obviously there will be a range of salaries based on annual performance ratings, seniority, etc, but we’d want it to be within the realm of what others are making.
- Seriously? Look at how much he’s helping others here. Anything can be a lie around here. There’s very little proof in every post. Please don’t discourage someone that is willing to help. That’s not good for the community. We should all be encouraging this attitude.Dec 6, 2018 11
- Salesforce JLnQ71How long do open offers really last? How can I find out the pay band for certain roles? Thanks!
- By “open offers”, do you mean as I gave you an offer and you’re making up your mind? If so, that varies company to company. Some companies push for 24+ hour responses. Some companies are cool with 1-2 weeks. If you have other interviews, disclose those and ask for time to evaluate all options.
Pay bands are very hard to come by. Even as a employee under HR, they don’t just send an Excel spreadsheet out every year to update everyone. Anecdotal advice might be more easily obtained.Mar 22, 2018 3
- Most times it’s because recruiters are dealing with 50+ candidates interviewing at any one point, 10-20+ hiring managers, not to mention continually reaching out to new candidates to keep the pipeline of candidates moving. We also end up keeping up with multiple mailboxes: email, LinkedIn and voicemails at volume can be challenging. It’s not personal but if you don’t get a response don’t hesitate to follow up.Mar 24, 2018 2
- Agree with Ballmers. There’s just an overwhelming amount of both internal and external communication that we’re responsible for and things are going to get dropped sometimes. Please do follow up with us if it’s been a couple days and you haven’t gotten a response that you were expecting.
It’s never personal. We’re just swamped.Mar 24, 2018 2
- Bloomberg ebarbopHow much do you value prsetige of past companies the candidate worked at?
Someone worked at Google versus a lesser known company sounds like a huge advantage but would love a recruiters perspective.
- Awesome question. I think “prestige” is one thing but really what it is is more about the “complexity” and “scale” of these companies.
When I see a candidate who’s working for Google, I don’t get excited about a “brand name resume”. I get excited because there’s a good chance that this candidate has worked on big problems with massive scale.
This also isn’t to say I avoid candidates from smaller or lesser-known companies. It’s simply that they’re a lesser known entity so I have less of an idea of exactly what this person has or hasn’t worked on. That’s all.
Does that make sense?Dec 6, 2018 6