- Currently at Amazon, previous FANG exp
- Primarily recruited for tech and engineering
- Love a good recruiter joke
- Currently at Amazon, previous FANG exp
- Wouldn’t want to discuss specific numbers but I can say recruiter base salary is noticeably less than swe base salary across most tech companies. Amazon recruiter base salary is typically lower than other companies recruiter base salaries but that’s probably not a huge surprise. That information can be confirmed on Glassdoor. As with any offer, you have to think about total compensation, role, team, product, initiatives, etc to make a decision.Mar 22, 20182
- Haha. My bad. Did I misunderstand your question? Base pay for L5 or L6 recruiters is noticeably less than L5 or L6 Engineers. I’m only using that comparison for perspective (because I think engineer compensation threads are pretty common). If you want more specifics, Glassdoor can shed light on that.
The base salary of L5 or L6 at Amazon is usually lower than the L5/L6 equivalent at Google/FB/similar.
- I am sorry I have to point this out. AMA == Ask Me Anything. MP3 is asking for a ballpark NUMBER of what you make, and not advice to see Glassdoor. ie something like "I make 70k base and with bonus I average 210k a year at L5". Feel free to fudge the numbers by giving a 10k range or so if that makes you more comfortable.Mar 23, 201830
- Recruiter TC is anywhere from 90-120 and 150-200 depending on level (5/6). With the gains in stock, many recruiters that have been here are punching well above their weight.
I’ve trained many engineers to be recruiters and they’ve become absolute rockstars. Happy to take it offline if you’re interested.Mar 24, 20186
- I think any recruiter with a minimum of 6 weeks of recruiting experience has a “crazy candidate story”. Seriously. Ask any of us.
Had a PM wear a Hello Kitty T-shirt and matching backpack to an interview one time.
Had a senior engineer refuse to sign an NDA because he “had already told his family he was interviewing with Company X and if he signed that, he’d be lying”.
Had a junior engineer (intern-level) ask if he’d get to meet Jeff Bezos before/after his interview and (thinking he was joking) I replied “probably not” with a chuckle to which the candidate replied “Oh, is he out of the office today then?” Precious.
Ugh. I need a drink.Mar 22, 201853
- Why do recruiters try to join my LinkedIn network without even sending me a message first?
- Recruiting is a cutthroat world. Most recruiters in tech experience response rates significantly <50% and, depending on role, could even be <20%. Some recruiters would rather spend that 30 seconds to write a message to connect with you while others would rather connect with 10 other profiles without sending a message. Not saying it’s right, just explaining the mentality.
Recruiters on LinkedInMar 23, 201817
- Be honest, be reasonable. Recruiters are mostly aware of what other companies pay for each role. If you ask for a $350,000 base and I know you’re an E4 at Facebook, I’ll tell you to have a nice day. Additionally, flat out asking for a number is okay, so long as it’s not lightyears away from the original offer. I’d much rather a candidate come to me and say “Thanks for the offer of $150,000 and 100 shares. If you can get me $155,000 and 110 shares, I’m prepared to agree” than to say “This offer wasn’t what I wanted. Can you do better?”Mar 22, 201826
- Amazon fly6sixWhat happens if candidates decides to back out after accepting an offer(Current company offers higher pay ) ? Are companies willing to negotiate then ? Does candidate get blacklisted?
- Hey! I’m happy to help. You’re welcome!
I’m with Marvell on this one. With your compensation increase and the relocation, I think you’re certainly in line to ask for something else. The key is to have your data and justify it. “The market is X% more expensive, the cost of living is Y% more, my current buying power in this market is Z but in SF it would be Z-n.” These are the things you use.
Those things being said, it wouldn’t be fair for me to advise you one way or another. I’m simply saying to have data as your ally but understand that even if you’re being reasonable, that new employer may not see it that way. Think about how you want to deliver your message in a way that invites partnership to resolve your concerns instead of saying “Hey, here are new numbers, hope you guys can catch up.”
- Best of luck! I’m not sure that all recruiters feel this way, but as long as I still feel like I have a partner (you), I’m ready to work for you. If you say “I still really want to join your company but the playing field has changed and here’s how. Can we do something about this?”, I still feel like we have our hire, I just need to get them more money. That works better than feeling like I have to be my own hostage negotiator and you need $50,000 “or the job GETS IT”Mar 23, 20184
- Intel జ్ఞాజ్ఞMoving from LA to SF for 20k? Not if you have a family. If you are single and young and want to gain more experience, maybe, but be strategic about it. The 20k is more like 10k after factoring in taxes. And after higher COL, rent adjustment in the Bay, it is all gone. Use the Bay Area as a platform to spring to better opportunities, which abound here. But kiss goodbye to your social life - the dating scene is non-existent.
- I’m actually a bit surprised. Your reasoning is completely justified. Sorry to hear that the recruiter didn’t seem to agree. Recruiters at Google (or any other major tech firm) know that the cost of living is higher in SF than just about anywhere else in the US. I’m surprised they didn’t even consider it. After all, it would be in their best interest. The offer they gave you no longer has the same draw it once did. You’re just trying to make a smart decision and the playing field has changed.
The manager that would be your new manager may know. It’s routine for recruiters to have open dialogue with hiring managers about pending candidates, regardless of where they are in the process. That being said, I don’t think anything would come of it. I’ve only seen a handful of offers rescinded and it’s usually after multiple, repeated, attempts to re-negotiate. At this point, it sounds like you’ve got a decision to make. Godspeed.
- I was really surprised as well. They put up a lot of resistance to matching any of my offers initially. I think the recruiter was really counting on the Google brand name. They downslotted me too, so my other offers(some from unicorns) were much higher than what they initially offered.
Thanks for the advice - you sound like a great recruiter. If you’re in the Bay Area, I’ll buy you a coffee when I get there.
- Still rather odd but with moving down to the lower level, that could very well have played a factor. Perhaps the offer they presented was already towards the higher end of the lower level? Obviously can’t say for sure.
I really appreciate the kind words. I’ll pass on the coffee at this time but any Ethereum donations can be sent to...haha. I’m kidding. Best of luck with whatever next steps you choose to take!
- I don't have any questions, but thank you for doing this -- you sound like a great person, and a recruiter I'd love to work with some time! Cheers.
- Hi OP, thank you for your time and answers here.
Could you elaborate on the incentives of a recruiter?
Are you incetivized to get people lower TC or higher TC? How are recruiters measured other than how many people sign the offer?
- Sure. So, as I’ve said a couple times, I’m not aware of any companies who incentivize recruiters to offer candidates less money. Obviously we can’t offer $1,000,000 to every single candidate but I don’t know of any policy, reward system, or initiative to try and “save money” on each offer.
The war for talent is INCREDIBLY challenging. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense for Google/Amazon/Facebook/Company X to say, “Hey, we’re industry leaders and pioneering initiatives in our space and we need to hire the best and brightest but try to screw them out of every dollar you can.” That conversation DOES NOT happen, nor does it make any sense. It’s hard enough to find the right candidates and get them to accept our offer (when candidates typically interview multiple places at once) so does it really make sense for recruiters to fight the talent war with our TC arm tied behind our back? It doesn’t. I might even go as far to say that if I, as a recruiter, interviewed at a company where lowering TC was incentivized, that would be a big red flag for me.
Recruiters typically have a base and stock, just like other employees. Other companies may have a bonus they offer as well. KPI’s that get reviewed are things like your phone interview to onsite ratio, on-site to offer ratio, offer acceptance rates, any project work you’ve done, and similar things like this. Again, I’m not aware of any incentives regarding a candidate’s TC.Dec 8, 20188
- Cruise Automation NanixDThis is the most asked question on this thread and most confused perception people have about recruiting. Recruiters are measured first and foremost by offers accepted. Project work like talent mapping, streamlining hiring processes, etc. Being a team player and training others is also evaluated.
There are funnel metrics like conversion ratios from onsite to offer or technical screen to onsite and recruiter screens to technical screens that they keep track of for their hiring managers to identify bottlenecks. Although it may vary company to company and level of difficulty on roles, I’d say typically 6-8 offer acceptances a quarter is fair for Individual contributor roles. Offer acceptances usually are around 60-80%.
Recruiters do not control compensation that’s the compensation teams job and requires the hiring managers approval for proper leveling. A recruiter can influence compensation by providing compensation expectations and advocating proper leveling based on interview performance and how a candidate complements or augments the current team. If you have multiple offers it’s in your best interest to be transparent so the recruiter can leverage that data to their comp team and say “we will lose X if we can’t adjust our total comp to be at least equal to XYZ or higher” in either base/equity/sign-on. Sometimes there is also misleveling and recruiters will be able to influence both the hiring manager and comp team for proper leveling. Ex) Someone is clearly a senior/staff but the team can’t seem to level correctly
The only recruiters who are incentivized by negotiating higher compensation packages would be contingency recruiters who receive commission as a large portion of their compensation. Agencies can charge 10-25% placement fees. Typically average around 18%. Lower for Recruitment process outsourcing models and high volume roles or non-technical.
Recruiters care about hires so they don’t care if your compensation is high or low as long as you accept. Obviously the happier you are the more likely you’ll stay and makes it easier for the recruiter since they won’t need to backfill your position. Ive never seen recruiters be given mandates to offer low TC, but there are companies with less resources so it just comes down to less room for negotiation to offer competitive packages.
Most recruiters will get the bulk of their hires from sourcing, referrals, agency, and inbound. (50%, 30%, 15%, 5%) They will be scrutinized if agency fees are the bulk of their hires and costing a lot, but it depends on the stage and lifecycle of the company. Good recruiters build strong sourcing operations to scale hiring and limit agency usage to augment their hiring needs. Referrals are easy wins having attestation that people are good from prior work experience or knowledge of their performance at other companies helps significantly. Hence some recruiters leverage strong relationships to build a great referral network. Inbound is usually pretty low pass through, hence people often recommend getting into companies via referrals.
Sourcers find candidates and do the initial outreach and get them through the initial screen and technical interviews. More focused on top line funnel. Will often be measured by # of outreach, response rates, and Offers extended. They can be rewarded for project work like talent mapping and increasing sourcing channels from unconventional sources. (Github, dribble, google scholar, patent reviews, meetups, networking events) Some sourcers are pure lead generators not as common but they will schedule calls and not have to actually screen. Some agencies or firms outsource this function to India or use automated systems.
A recruiter handles the onsite interview stage, pre onsite sync, onsite wrap up and offer negotiation. They’re responsible for managing a hiring manager relationship and calibrating interviewing teams with feedback to drive better hiring practices. Fix problems with bad interviewers, biases, overly complex hiring criteria. More experienced recruiters do knowledge-base building and create materials for training their hiring teams and recruiting teams. Interview banks, biases training, technical screening methodology. (Hackerranks/leetcode problems/take home tests) The recruiter will often lean on their experience and hiring teams to create challenges.
Recruiters compensation varies based on company and in-house vs. agency. Agency can start off $30-40k + commissions to get towards $60-100k range for fresh grads and former sales people. The bad ones typically spam and use mailing lists and tell you to leave XYZ company for contract to hire or a lower level role. Good training grounds for hustle and learning the market so most startups and big tech will poach after 2-3 years of agency experience, since they don’t have to invest in training. In-house depending on startups or FANGs can range from contract to hire at $30-90+/hr to $50-180k+ Base salary. Some companies do Bonuses but not as common for startups. (5-15%) Equity is usually provided instead of the bonus. Senior recruiters can make the higher range $100-200k depending on years of experience usually 10+ and will have both agency and 5+ years of in-house experience. They want someone to build recruitment processes and manage their agency fees while also training junior staff. Provide interviewer training and scale hiring practices.
There is also executive search firms or leadership recruiters. Much more white glove service and high touch. 2-4 hires in a quarter might be considered great if you’re looking for engineering managers and above or staff level hires. Searches can last 3-6+ months on retainers starting around 100k but it depends. Fees are usually 30%. Those firms usually have consultants or associates paid $100k+ for base and additional bonus. Teams of experienced researchers do the competitive intelligence and market research work. Where the recruiters help manage the client relationships and engagements. Every tech company has some exec firm on retainer. But naturally as companies become more enterprise scale they build their own teams to lower costs.
Finally there is a recruitment consultant who can charge an hourly rate I’ve seen $100-200+/hr they can act like a management consultant but for recruiting. Prior experience building and scaling recruitment processes. They can help build rules of engagement and fix compensation issues such as leveling and offer practices. Ex) maybe they helped implement an offer form that provides better data integrity for compensation analysis.
Long post but hope that helps!! Appreciate OP for being so responsive and setting a good example for recruiters.Dec 8, 201810
- Non-tech Recruiter at Amazon here. OP is being just a tad coy. Not sure why, this is Blind. Base for an L5 is mid 80’s. With stock vests, (15%) I made $134k in 2017. Next year if stock hangs around 1500-1590, I’ll make $187k. I joined when stock price was at 329. And granted 155 shares. Not sure what FB is paying L5 non tech recruiters but doubt it’s that high. Also we are measured on everything and there is a bonus for diversity on sites, not hires. Bonus means if you don’t make required hires for the quarter, these bonus points can make up for it. If production drops two quarters in a row, they can pivot you. Fucking cut throat as shit at Amazon, but that’s because they hate recruiters. Everyone thinks it’s an easy job. Can’t wait to fully vest and I’m getting out. Easier way to make a living than that b.s.
- Facebook / EngmarsiannOP, AMA - ask me anything - doesn't mean you havre to answer everything. Share what you are comfortable with, don't get pressured into something that can potentially affect your work/career.
It's better to have a couple AMAs with people who answer some questions than 0 AMA with people answering all questions.
- Salesforce yOBl76Do tech recruiters have a monthly quota to hit and do they persuade/dissuade candidates from teams depending on any particular incentive?
- Yes and no. We do have quotas but they vary widely on role, level, requirements, org, etc.
Recruiters care primarily about offers being accepted. That’s the key metric. There might be a slight nudge if a team is super desperate for candidates or a certain team’s deliverables are in jeopardy but at the end of the day, I want you to accept an offer with my company foremost, with my team next.
- Companies handle quotas different ways but typically, there’s a “X hires per month” quota. The quota is kind of weird because it’s usually a generality but sourcing teams may be identifying candidates from different job families. For example, if we have a “3 Hires per month” quota and my teammate hires 3 junior engineers and I hired 1 principal engineer, they had an average month and I had a great month. Basically, there is a quota number, but a number of different factors make up how the hire numbers are interpreted.
My pay indirectly works with the quota. I don’t think quota changes all that much by level but moreso by what roles you’re hiring for. So, let’s say my quota is 12 hires per year and I make 18, I’ll probably achieve a higher performance rating and thus, a bigger raise, but it’s not like the quota itself influences our pay directly if that makes sense.Mar 26, 20181
- Exactly. It’s a number that we’re definitely targeting and shooting for but there’s a lot of context that goes into it too. For example, if everyone on my team has a 3 hire per month quota and my teammate and I each only hit 20 hires for the year, we obviously fell short. But if my teammate is recruiting for IT support employees and I’m recruiting for Director-level employees, and we each hired 20 people for our roles, then my 20 hires looks WAY better than my teammates 20 hires. The quota system is a loose guide that carries some weight but by itself, isn’t the judge and jury.Mar 26, 20181
- Do you blacklist candidate?
Recently I declined Amazon as they couldn’t match Facebook offer. SDE3 and E5.
- I blacklist people who either ask to be removed from our database (in which case, I don’t want to bother them further) or people who are overwhelmingly, undeniably, rude. If I send you an email about my new team in (City) and you respond with a profanity-ridden manifesto about how awful my company is and multiple middle finger gifs, I’m going to assume you don’t care about burning a bridge in which case, I’ll happily burn it for you.
In your case, unless you were a huge jerk about how awful Amazon’s offer was, I’d be surprised if you were blacklisted. At the end of the day, you thought the Facebook opportunity (comp, projects, team, etc) was better than the Amazon opportunity. I might be bummed you didn’t take my offer, but I’m not going to be spiteful about it. In fact, if I’m any good at my job, I’ll ping you in 6 months and ask how Facebook is and let you know the door is always open if you want to work with me again.Mar 22, 201812
- I got a rejection email from one of the recruiters, I asked for the feedback, she provided one.
That’s the only recruiter joke I have got.
- I have never seen a single person on Blind, besides you, supply such thoughtful and in depth answers for such a sustained amount of time. You're probably an amazing person, and that really shows here! Thanks for helping all of us. :)
- Shazam mtgathe real question is how have you had time to write these essays for the past 3 months?
- Google Duplex. Kidding.
Honestly, I’ve just been so fascinated by the questions. Getting all of these questions has been awesome because it’s given me insight into what some of my candidates may want to know or may be concerned about. Thanks to you all, I have a better idea of what people may be worried about around offer time or why someone is nervous about communication from recruiting teams. That kind of stuff helps me learn to be more transparent about what’s happening in the hiring process or how to potentially anticipate a candidate’s concern ahead of time and have solutions prepared.
Long story short, this has made me a better recruiter and that’s been awesome to experience. I love coming back to these questions and helping everyone out, all while learning at the same time!Jun 8, 20188
- Who decides the maximum compensation package, and who decides which numbers to throw out first to the candidate? Is base vs RSU vs sign-on bonus equally easy to give on (if not, why is one easier than the others)?
- Most large companies, even outside of tech, have dedicated compensation teams. It’s a bunch of finance people, market research people, analysts, etc. They’re the ones who build the salary models and bands for the rest of us to utilize when making offers. They’re the ones who say “Here’s the Min TC, Avg TC, and Max TC for this role”.
Ideally, I’d like for you to tell me what your salary expectations are. There’s some recent legislation that has made it illegal for recruiters to ask you what you’re currently earning (this legislation varies by state) but it’s perfectly legal for me to ask what you’re looking for. Throwing out a number isn’t the cardinal sin it used to be. If you ask for $120,000 but I know that most of our offers at the level you’re interviewing at get $150,000, I’ll say “Hey, thanks for sharing, and I think we’ll be able to put something together you’ll really like”. When we get to the offer stage, you’ll see $150,000 on the offer letter.
Base/Sign On/RSU is somewhat easy to give and take but there are certain caps in place. Like, I couldn’t offer you a $7 annual salary, $10 sign on, and the rest in stock. There’s some wiggle room to move numbers around but I can’t completely alter the general structure of an offer.
- Sort of. If we have that information, it’s either because we have researchers who are very good at what they do and they’ve uncovered that information OR it’s because we’ve recently hired a number of people from one company and through our interactions with them, we can build a loose model of what those numbers may look like. I think this is more prevalent with related companies like Amazon/Facebook/Google/the like versus a FANG company knowing that about a company in a different industry/not a direct competitor.
- Amazon HdctddTo build on that and answer another question you had, my recruiters always put together an offer and show it to me as the HM before sending it to the candidate. I think there’s only been one time where I had the recruiter adjust their initial offer and that was because it would have put that candidate too low in pay compared to the rest of my team. She ended up changing the numbers around slightly so that the first two years were about the same as the initial offer but the back two would be higher based on how our stock has been growing.
I’m not sure if all recruiters confirm with the Hm first though. I would imagine they would because I’d be pissed if the recruiter offered too low on their own and the candidate declined. As a manager I’m much more comfortable when we make an initial offer that the candidate likes rather than having to negotiate. It makes me feel more comfortable that they aren’t going to get upset later due to comp. Dealing with people unhappy about comp sucks, there’s very little I can do as a manager to fix that even though I’d love everyone on my team to make significantly more.
- This is a really great point. I do work with the hiring manager on offers because after all, the candidate is going to their team. I want to deliver a happy employee.
Additionally, hiring managers know what their team is making so if their team has 5 SDE2’s on it and we’re hiring you as our 6th SDE2, I would want to work with the hiring manager to make sure we’re making an offer that’s reasonably close to the other 5. Obviously there will be a range of salaries based on annual performance ratings, seniority, etc, but we’d want it to be within the realm of what others are making.
- Salesforce JLnQ71How long do open offers really last? How can I find out the pay band for certain roles? Thanks!
- By “open offers”, do you mean as I gave you an offer and you’re making up your mind? If so, that varies company to company. Some companies push for 24+ hour responses. Some companies are cool with 1-2 weeks. If you have other interviews, disclose those and ask for time to evaluate all options.
Pay bands are very hard to come by. Even as a employee under HR, they don’t just send an Excel spreadsheet out every year to update everyone. Anecdotal advice might be more easily obtained.Mar 22, 20183
- Most times it’s because recruiters are dealing with 50+ candidates interviewing at any one point, 10-20+ hiring managers, not to mention continually reaching out to new candidates to keep the pipeline of candidates moving. We also end up keeping up with multiple mailboxes: email, LinkedIn and voicemails at volume can be challenging. It’s not personal but if you don’t get a response don’t hesitate to follow up.
- Agree with Ballmers. There’s just an overwhelming amount of both internal and external communication that we’re responsible for and things are going to get dropped sometimes. Please do follow up with us if it’s been a couple days and you haven’t gotten a response that you were expecting.
It’s never personal. We’re just swamped.
- Bloomberg ebarbopHow much do you value prsetige of past companies the candidate worked at?
Someone worked at Google versus a lesser known company sounds like a huge advantage but would love a recruiters perspective.
- Awesome question. I think “prestige” is one thing but really what it is is more about the “complexity” and “scale” of these companies.
When I see a candidate who’s working for Google, I don’t get excited about a “brand name resume”. I get excited because there’s a good chance that this candidate has worked on big problems with massive scale.
This also isn’t to say I avoid candidates from smaller or lesser-known companies. It’s simply that they’re a lesser known entity so I have less of an idea of exactly what this person has or hasn’t worked on. That’s all.
Does that make sense?Dec 6, 20186
- First off, thanks for all the great insights into the inner workings of recruiting. A lot of us Blinders are quite blind when it comes to the whole process so it’s great that you’re helping us out with this unofficial ask a recruiter forum. My Q for you is the candidate selection process. After you post a new role, when do you review, select and contact first screens? Do you review them and contact right away if you see a potential fit? Or do you wait until you get a good list of potentials going before you reach out to all of them at once? Even for a first screen? I’ve had a recruiter reach out within days of application but some others take a month, if not more,
- My pleasure! I think there’s a ton of misinformation about recruiters out there and I’m happy to try and clarify things. For example, contrary to widespread popular belief, recruiters are not spawned directly from Satan. Fun fact.
Personally, I contact candidates as I find them. If I waited to build a list of 25 great looking candidates to contact them all at once, Company X will have beat me to 4 of them, 6 of them will be off the market, and 9 just won’t be interested. I can’t delay my contact.
I think your actual question is more about the application process though. Every company handles job applications differently and the way those applied candidates are delivered to us as recruiters can impact the speed at which I contact you. If they go right to my email, then I can contact you directly. If I have to go find a certain folder in my database and then filter it XYZ scenario and then export that to an Excel file, that’s going to slow down the process.
Additionally, job applications are both a blessing and a curse for recruiters. I’ve hired some fantastic candidates who have applied to my jobs. I’ve also had about 10% of the nationwide Domino’s delivery drivers apply to my senior engineering roles. I have baristas apply for director roles. True story, I had an “online adult entertainer” apply for a product management role. Going through resume after resume of brutally unqualified talent can be a bit mentally taxing. I think most recruiters would agree that job applications can be the epitome of looking for a needle in a haystack.
- There are tools out there that can only allow resumes through that possess certain keywords. For example, I’m looking for a software engineer so this tool would scan the resume to make sure it possessed “software”, “distributed”, and “Java”. If it did, it comes to me. If it didn’t, it’s filtered out. Something like this isn’t used by every company though.
- Haha wow, that sure is a mixed bag of candidates for a role! Makes for good stories at the very least. I wonder what the online adult entertainer had put on their resume when applying. Did they even try to cater the resume to the position or just submitted knowing their background is clearly not a fit
- Haha that’s fascinating! Got one more Q about candidate selections for you. For first screens, do you share resume with hiring team to get feedback before even reaching out to candidate? Or do you typically reach out to candidate for first screen to get logistics before sharing profile with the team? I’ve seen companies do both - What is your preference? And does that vary by company or by role?Mar 28, 20180
- Good question!
So when I take on a new role with a manager, I want to get calibrated. I’ll share a few resumes of candidates who I think align with a role to make sure that I’m finding what they’re seeking.
After that, I only share resumes of candidates I’m on the fence on and I’m asking for a second pair of eyes. Once I’m calibrated, there’s not a ton of reason for me to review every single resume.
To answer your question though, I’d only share resumes of candidates who have gotten back to me and expressed interest in the role I’m hiring for. Otherwise, I’m running the risk of getting managers excited about candidates who never respond to me. HahaMar 28, 20181
- Company always pay more for external hires than existing employees... why is that the case? When an employee gets promoted, money he makes is no way comparable with external hires and also management makes no effort whatsoever to match it
- Amazon Amazon_O_GAnd to piggyback on that question, what steps do we take to ensure we don’t lose those internals who may be underpaid because they have been at the company a while? Is this looked at or only left to the employee’s manager? Not sure if this is a recruiting question but it is related.
- How far in the past do FANGs look when conducting background checks? What are some of the top reasons for rejection?
- I believe the standard background check is 7 years but some can be 10 years. To be honest, I’m not sure if that’s a company thing or state thing. I just know those two numbers for length of time.
When you say top reasons for rejection, do you mean reasons candidates don’t get hired? Or reasons candidates reject offers? Etc
- Not a problem. Just wanted to clarify.
I think just about every company has the same list of things they would prefer not to see on a background check. Most felonies, although those aren’t automatic disqualifiers, would make things a bit challenging. Also, a crime that would be a conflict of interest would be a bad scenario. Like, think about hiring a CFO who had two previous convictions for writing bad checks. Not smart, right?
- Some companies do employment verification where they can retrieve your dates of employment and last title held. If the dates of employment don’t match up or the titles are super far apart, that can be a red flag. If your resume says “Software Engineer” but the employment verification says you were a “Software Development Engineer”, that’s no big deal at all. If you told us that you’re still currently employed but the employment verification says you quit the company 9 months ago, there’s an issue.
- Veritas / EngMy 💅moreI may be late for this, but your help is highly appreciated. These are generic questions (irrespective of the company but feel free to share company-specific experiences)
1. How do companies/teams/managers look at candidates who accept the offer and then decline? The recruiter told me that he can do max X TC. I had told the recruiter that I have a couple of offers of 1.15X TC from A and 1.2X TC from B, still, I accepted his offer and now I am having second thoughts. I came to know that someone else with similar experience was offered higher at the same company and I am feeling I low balled myself.
2. After accepting the offer, If I try to tell them that if offered 1.15X instead of X, I will join for sure. Will they budge?
3. The recruiter had mentioned that my offer is maxed out for my level, can I ask him to interview me again for a higher level and if I pass, offer me more? Will he entertain me?
I know this is very unethical, but the thought of low balling myself has been killing me since the day I signed the offer and will continue to do so even after I join.
- Every candidate and every offer is different. You may think you’re making a fully equal comparison between you and someone but that may not be the case. You have to look at your own offer as unique, irrelevant to other individuals.
1. Not great. If you accept our offer, we expect you to stick it out. Imagine if things were reversed and the company said “Hey, actually, we need you to accept at 15% less”. That would be ridiculous, right? Renegotiating after an accepted offer isn’t a good look.
2. Again, you’ve already said “yes” to the original offer. You can try this route, but saying “Well my friend got this offer” doesn’t mean anything. You interviewed, you got the offer. Your friend’s offer doesn’t have any weight.
3. No. Once the level is determined, that’s where you’re at. If you were actually at that next level, the company would have interviewed you as such.
This post reads like you’re only upset because someone you know got more. You can’t look at it that way. The offer you received is the offer that the company thought was appropriate. You obviously signed it for some reason despite having higher offers elsewhere. Take a step back, think about what this overall opportunity provides you, and then think if you want to go through with it. If you do, go into it full speed. If you don’t, recognize that backing out is a bad look and possibly may burn a bridge.Oct 8, 20184
- Totally fair! TC is a big deal when changing jobs. I totally understand that. I just don’t think it’s wise to compare your TC to someone else because of how nuanced recruiting can be. Every candidate is different, even if you interview for the same level and role. Look at your own TC and see if it’s something you can live with and make your decision from there. It sounds like the role is a great match so I hope it works out for you!
- I understand that now I am not comparing with others. My competing offers have raised their numbers now when I called them to say no. Now my current accepted offer is X. Competing offers are 1.25X and 1.4X. That's why this is bugging me more.
What would you do in this case? How much % would it take to change your mind and be ready to burn the bridges? Or you wouldn't do it in any case?
- So here’s where it gets funky. If you’ve accepted my offer, I’m also working off the idea that you’ve said “no” to your other offers. Your recruiter may he surprised to hear that you have other offers still even after accepting your current one.
You can lay out what the other offers are and ask if your recruiter can do anything but that’s really the best you can do. There’s no guarantee they’ll change the offer.
Respectfully, I don’t want to advise you on what to do/not to do. The decision really is yours. You have to weigh up the complete picture for each offer and make your decision. Think about things beyond the compensation. Imagine it’s 5 years from now, which company’s experience is going to put you in position to get to the next level? Which company’s challenges are most interesting to you? A job is way more than TC (contrary to Blind’s beliefs). Think about the long term in addition to your next paycheck.Oct 8, 20182
- I'm actually surprised this wasn't asked earlier. I'm wondering if recruiters verify if a candidate claims they have an offer from a different company. Lets say you have a friend at Google, do you actually verify if the candidate you're negotiating with have an offer from Google for the amount they're claiming for?
And, how seriously are you working on the interview experience? Recently I interviewed at one of the FANG but the interviewer had a very very bad body odor. It was so strong that I had try to hold my breath during the entire duration. It definitely affected my performance but it's not in my control. What do you think I should do in that scenario?
- Good question.
Yes and no.
Companies CAN ask for proof of a competing offer. Perhaps I’m trying to build you offer but I know you have an offer with another company that’s paying you way more. I can ask for you to provide that written offer to me and attempt to use that to ask for more money on my end. It may or may not make a difference but I’d at least have the data to make the request. It’s 100% up to you if you want to share that offer information but if you mention you have another offer and then also ask us for more money, we may ask if you’re willing to share that information and confirmation with us. If you “change your mind”, things look a little shifty.
Additionally, if you tell me you have an offer for $500,000 and I know for a fact that I can only do $200,000, I won’t ask for verification because it doesn’t matter. Haha. I’d be the first one to wish you well at your new $500,000 paying job.
Interview experience is something everyone cares about. If you had a smelly interviewer, tell your recruiter. No troll. I want my candidates to think “These people are cool and the work sounds great. I want to work here”. Not “I hope my desk isn’t next to Farts McGee.” Be nice about it, but seriously, let your recruiter know.
- Thanks for your response!
That makes sense. Usually, most of the offers are verbal. Most recruiters don't share the numbers over email before you agree to sign the offer. At least, that's how it has been in my experience. In that scenario what confirmation should I provide as I don't have any written proof. Would you trust your candidate (of course, numbers are not ridiculously inflated)?
Well, initially, I was very hesitant to provide that information to the recruiter because I don't want to come across as someone who's giving excuses because of their bad performance. I thought about it for a minute and then realized I don't want it to happen any one of us because we work hard to perform well in interviews and the interviewer's personal hygiene should not undermine my performance. I don't know how it would change but I did mention it to the recruiter.
- Of course!
In that case, yes, I would trust my candidate. KEEP IN MIND however that as I mentioned previously, we have a reasonable idea of what similar companies and competitors are paying and offering. If you bluff, make it a good one! Haha. The other thing is, most companies have compensation bands that limit what we’re able to offer by level. I’m going to put an offer together for you and I may or may not have some wiggle room on top of that. Even if you have a competing offer that pays $X more, that doesn’t always mean I can get more money.
Exactly. I think you did the right thing. Obviously you wish your experience had been better but out of respect to future candidates, you wanted them to have a better experience. It may not change the outcome of the entire interview but you thought about how others could be affected. If I was your recruiter, I’d appreciate you letting me know.
- Oracle / ProducthowdyWhen they say they’ll keep your resume on file and contact you if there’s a good fit, do they ever mean it?
- Truthfully, yes. I think the phrase “keep your resume on file” is both old as hell as well as cliche as can be. If I use that phrase, what I’m really saying is “If I get a role that meets your X requirement or Y skillset or Z demands, I’ll let you know”. Personally, I keep a spreadsheet of candidates I’ve interacted with at various points and either a general note about them or a particular skillset they have. Those are the people I follow up with every few months or ping first when I have that specific role open.
- Petuum KHRWhat do base/bonus/equity packages actually look like versus what gets posted here and other places?
- Haha. It’s funny. Blind comments are just a single person’s perspective but some people treat a single comment as essentially company policy.
For example, maybe there’s a software engineer in the Bay Area who has 10 YOE and has $500k TC. Now, 90% of blind who has 10 YOE thinks they’re worth $500k TC. What they don’t realize is that this person has been at Company X for a longer period of time and has seen the stock appreciate like crazy. Haha.
So, it’s just funny. It’s not to say that people on Blind are lying. It’s simply that some answers really should include some context.Dec 6, 20185
- Thanks for your question, but with all due respect, this is exactly why I try to avoid specific TC conversations.
Every single candidate is different. Every single company is different. Every single negotiation is different. If I say “Yes, an initial $500k TC offer is possible”, then anyone who reads this thread immediately says “Well, I have 10 YOE so the next time I negotiate, I’m not taking less than $500k TC” and it just doesn’t work like that.Dec 8, 20181
- Yeah I agree with what you said. I get your point that candidates shouldn’t expect they should get 500k just because that happened to some other candidates (maybe only top 5-10% or something).
I posted my comment mainly because your comment seems to suggest that the 500k number always includes stock appreciation.
- A hiring manager from FANG company reached out to me, went through the interview and it seemed to go well. Recruiter then told me things are looking good but need to do one more round with high level manager. I did that and it went well too. It's been over two weeks since and recruiter is saying that have to complete some process on their side that is taking time and this she cannot let me know what the outcome is. Are they still interviewing other candidates or an I getting worried for no reason at all?
- Offers have tons of variables. They might still be interviewing but there’s always moving parts with team fit, team need, new initiatives, loss of funding, etc. I know it sucks being left in the dark. I’m sorry to hear that.
I’ve had all kinds of weird scenarios that affect offer timelines. I had a previous hiring manager who was cool with making an offer and a week later, no lie, changed his mind so I had to go find a new team for that candidate to be hired to. I had a manager tell me on a Monday “Yes, make an offer to Candidate X” and on Wednesday, that manager quit. On top of that, some recruiters are relying on hiring managers to confirm that the offer numbers look good, compensation teams to approve those numbers, immigration teams to confirm that we can legally bring the candidate on board, etc. And don’t forget, we’re working with more than 1 candidate at a time. Haha.
Long story short, I’d reach out to your recruiter and let them know how you’re feeling. “Hey Recruiter. It’s been X amount of time sine you originally told me I was getting an offer and I’m feeling a bit in the dark. Can you help me understand what we’re waiting on and what else I can be doing?” If that message either goes unresponded to or the answer doesn’t even attempt to answer your question, reach out to the hiring manager and explain what’s going on.
- I have a question similar to an other Amazon commenter. I have accepted and signed an offer from FAANG company for X. At the time I didn't have any competing offers or counter offers. Their offer was 10% more than my current TC. After I told my manager that I'm leaving they countered me with Y in stocks. Now my current TC is 300-350K more than the FAANG offer (over 4 years) . How do I bring this up with my recruiter to increase their offer without sounding like a d**k. The difference is too huge to just suck it up and accept the offer just coz I signed it. So any advice is appreciated so that I don't burn bridges with the new company and still get something better than initial offer. I won't accept the new offer if they can't come close to my current offer but obviously I don't want to say it upfront.
- Is it going to take matching that counter for you to leave? Go back to the recruiter, explain the situation and then tell them what it will take for you not to consider this counter. Keep in mind your current company has had multiple years to assess your performance while the new company has had a few hours. It may be difficult for them to go on out a limb, get additional approvals for this, especially when they may feel burned already. They need to know youre sincere in your interest but the delta in TC is tough to overlook.
- I’d definitely advise you to do some research on counteroffers and the statistics of accepting them. Those numbers don’t usually look good.
That being said, with those stock figures, I can totally understand. I think all you can really do is go to your recruiter, let them know what’s happened, and ask to re-negotiate because the internal counteroffer is just so massive. I’d try to make it clear to your recruiter that you do still really want to join the company and you’re really excited about what they’re doing but this offer is a lot to think about. You have to come across genuine and honest because if it smells like you’re just trying to suck out more money, that’ll turn everyone off.
- Hi there! I made it to the final stage of my Facebook interview and my recruiter asked for my references; does this mean I’m near an offer? Are they still trying to decide to choose me?
- I’d ask your recruiter! :) “Sure! I’m happy to provide references. Are you looking for professional references or personal references? Additionally, does this confirm I will be receiving an offer? If not, can you help me understand the rest of the process and corresponding timetable? Thank you!”
The “thank you” is key. ;) Haha. All joking aside, just ask your recruiter and they should be able to help you understand everything I just outlined. Whether you’re getting an offer at this time or not, congrats on getting as far as you have! Good luck!May 11, 20181
- Amazon roc499How many candidates do you typically bring for the onsite round? What delays you from getting back to candidates as quickly as you'd like?
- There’s not a set number or cap of people we bring in for onsites. If you pass the phone interview, there’s a very high chance that you’ll be invited onsite. On rare occasions, the role may get filled or headcount may get shifted, etc, that may affect you coming onsite for my team but even then, I’d introduce you to another team to come onsite with them.
Awesome question about delays. Typically, what delays me is either waiting on information from other parties (waiting on feedback, an answer from HR or immigration, hiring manager review, etc) or just being swamped with other things that require my more immediate attention (like a rush loop or trying to meet everyone’s interview schedules to match with my candidate’s availability). Sometimes, it’s just challenging to keep up with everything at once.Nov 3, 20182
- I’d probably check in again on Wednesday and then again on Friday if there’s still been no response. After that, I’d go to someone else from the recruiting team if possible.
I don’t really know about odds decreasing over time, to be fair. There are obviously lots of stories on Blind about recruiters ghosting on candidates after onsites but there are all kinds of reasons for delays. I mean, think about it. The debrief could have gotten rescheduled. A hiring manager was out of office. Your recruiter could have had a sick day and just forgot to call. It literally could be anything that delayed the decision/delivery of that decision.
I know the waiting is really, really, tough though. Just try to keep your head up, always be appreciative and understanding in your communication with your recruiter, and hope for the best.Nov 6, 20182
- Do you have some kind of bonus for each new hire? Is your compensation reversely proportionate to the offer you give out? Otherwise why don’t you just give the best offer (in term of $) to every candidate who passed the interviews - this will surely increase your offer acceptance rate
- Every company is a little bit different but I am not bonused on candidates I hire. There is no correlation between the amount of my offer to a candidate and my own personal compensation.
Negotiating is a strange science. I’m sure other recruiters, myself included, have been in scenarios where Candidate A rejects a $150,000 offer where I had zero negotiating room and Candidate B accepted $145,000 offer that had been negotiated up from $140,000. Being closed off to negotiating can turn a lot of candidates off. And it’s never a scenario where $150,000 is my max and I offer you $100,000 because I expect you’ll want to negotiate and I’m trying to keep you away from the max. It’s more like I want to deliver a good experience and collaborating on and negotiating an offer can sometimes work better than being closed off to the discussion all together. I think a lot of the time, it’s a case by case basis. Depends on my interactions with the candidate, what our professional relationship is like, etc...
In general, I don’t think candidates really enjoy working with recruiters. I’m sure there are some that do but in general, I think a lot of people see us as “necessary evils”. Haha. Hypothetically, if you’re a candidate who already doesn’t really like recruiters and you get an offer with a company, me being able to say “Hi Candidate. I know we talked about adjusting some numbers and I was able to move the stock a bit to get you that extra $10,000” would feel a whole lot better than me saying “Sorry. This is my best offer. I can’t go a dime higher. This is it. You’re either in or out.”Mar 25, 20182
- My pleasure!
Yes, at previous companies, my compensation had no correlation to my offers to candidates.
I think the main companies who have more “success” tied to your offer are recruiting agencies who get a percentage of your first year salary from the company for placing you. If I worked for an agency, I would highly prefer that your salary be $120,000 instead of $100,000 because that means I make more money as part of my commission. Recruiters who work at corporations don’t usually have that commission element in their compensation. I’ve seen it done at smaller companies who are hiring significantly smaller numbers but at a massive, global, company, that wouldn’t be the case.
- What is a good answer to "rate yourself from 1-10"? What are recruiters trying to get from this question?
- First off, it’s a bad question and one we really shouldn’t be asking. That scale can be so hard to interpret.
As far as answering this goes, I think the main thing to remember is that no one is ever a 10 at anything. If someone says they’re a 10, what I’m hearing is that you think you’re the best at it and you have nothing else to learn. Red flag. Be humble.
You can always play it off too. If you get a “Rate yourself 1-10 on Java”, you can say “Well, I’ve worked in Java for X years so whatever that correlates to on the scale, I’m there” and kind of joke about it. If the recruiter presses you, usually a 2-3 is a “Ive done a bit of this”, a 5-6 is a “I could handle something with this tool/technology if I needed to” and a 8-9 is a “I’m very comfortable with this.”
Mainly, just don’t ever say you’re a 10 at anything because it implies you think you’re the best and that’s no good. You want to express what skills you have but at the same time, respect that you can and will learn more through different perspectives and thought processes.
Additionally, it’s definitely worth being honest here because if you don’t have the skills, we’re either going to find out when you tell us or we’re going to find out in the interview. As a recruiter, I’d 100% rather you tell me you don’t have a certain skill so that way, I can go find a more appropriate role for you and help you in that way. If you lie or embellish your skills and then go through with the interview and fail, it’s not like there’s a “do over” button.Jun 6, 20184
- eBay r654ghkHonestly speaking ,
a.) the first offer you give most candidates , is it a low ball?
b.) What are the chances you will revoke the offer if the candidate asks for something very high
c.) Chances you will revoke offer or confront candidate if you know a counter he is claiming is not true
d.) Willl you ever ask for proof of counters?
- A) No. Believe it or not, I’ve had my first offer rejected and the candidate refused to negotiate further. I run a big risk if I lowball. Additionally, I review offers with my hiring manager who knows their team’s salaries. IF those employees were to discuss their compensation, a big discrepancy wouldn’t be fun.
B) Haha. I won’t revoke the offer. You can ask for essentially any number you want but there’s only so much I can do, so much I can make available. It’s up to you to decide if the offer is worthwhile. :)
C) I’ve seen offers revoked for candidates that are lying about anything. Numbers, dates of termination, etc.
D) I can ask, yes...
- A) no, our job is to get candidates to say yes, there’s no bonus points for money saved. At the same time there’s often some wiggle room as we prepare for the idea that most people will want to negotiate for something.
B) possible but not super likely. More likely is that your recruiter will tell you that’s not possible or realistic.
C) again possible but counters are a different animal, you had reasons to look in the first place and likely more money didn’t change those. Many recruiters will simply push back and see if you’re serious about staying instead of continuing to help you get paid to stay.
D) No, never have and the new salary laws being enacted make it less likely that any recruiters you’ll deal with will either.
- Every now and then we meet greet ppl who treat us well, thank us for making them millions, send our managers notes about how great we are... One guy I hired 3 years ago is now worth 1.1M and I had to talk him into the role. You’d think he send me a potted plant or a Starbucks card.
- I do genuinely enjoy the connections and relationships I get to make. I work with some very, very, smart people and many of them are just great human beings on top of that. Plus, as an engineering recruiter, I’ve made a number of friends in development and can ask their opinions on certain technologies or products and get a different vantage point that I wouldn’t have by myself.
- I have bipolar disorder, an ADA disability. Should I answer the question about having a disability on job applications? Any benefit? I have a feeling it would keep me from getting interviews.
- Thanks a ton for bringing this up. Even on this anonymous platform, I appreciate your decision to ask this question.
The decision to answer is completely up to you. It’s about what you’re comfortable sharing up front with a prospective employer. From my own perspective, I’m not spending a ton of time reviewing your actual job application where you’d disclose that information. I’m reading over your resume, LinkedIn profile, any professional contributions you’ve made, etc. To that point, even if I do notice you’ve disclosed that information, I care a WHOLE lot more about how you’d perform in the role I’m hiring for. Additionally, companies are happy to make acceptable accommodations to interview candidates with disabilities. I’ve worked with candidates who are wheelchair users, candidates who were blind, and also candidates who disclosed they were on the autism spectrum.
Long story short, it’s 100% your decision to disclose, but we’re much more interested in the code you’ve written, the projects you’ve managed, etc...
- Yahoo 🤟🖖☝️🧠Why recruiters keep handing off the candidate to their colleagues. Like recruiter1 was in touch with me, till phone screen. After phone screen she handed off me to another recruiter. Now, recruiter2 talks to me over phone and drafts me an email introducing to another recruiter. Now 3rd recruiter starts interacting and asks same questions the previous 2 asked. Any reason??
- Long story short, it’s all in an effort to find the right team and role for you. Sometimes, that process is just a bit disjointed. Feel free to mention something to your recruiter about it and they can help explain things. Just mention that you’ve spoken to a few recruiters thus far and you just want to get your bearings straight moving forward and your recruiter will be happy to explain. Sorry for the multiple points of contact but good luck!Jul 22, 20182
- Microsoft Yg8Jq1aHey. I added some recruiters on LinkedIn and messaged them. They just read it and no reply. Am I doing it wrong by reaching out to recruiters??
- We get tons of messages for roles we are not filling. Ppl with no experience. Sorry, not one hiring manager ever asked me to find someone with no experience. We have to hit a crap ton of metrics to stay employed and can’t spend time “helping” everyone get a job. Super stressful and a bummer for all of you wanting to work in this hell hole.
- Why my Amazon recruiter stopped replying my emails after I accepted the offer?
- Definitely don’t resign until this is squared away. If things aren’t firm on Amazon’s side, then you can’t risk putting in your notice.
Throughout the process, you would have possibly worked with a sourcer and almost assuredly a recruiting coordinator. If you can’t remember their names or find their emails, look up one of the people you interviewed with on LinkedIn and contact them. If you’re getting an offer and your recruiter has gone dark, someone else needs to know.Aug 18, 20180
- Took a counteroffer at one of the big guys in the Bay. Looking back on it, I feel like the candidate may have just been fishing for more money all along but I’ll never know. And hey, maybe I’m a tad bit smarter now. In the end, it’s all good. This candidate did what they thought was best for them. Not the way I wanted it to turn out, but I can’t fault them for doing what they think is best.
- You’re welcome! I hope it’s helped some people out there!
I’ve actually never had that thought until now. It’s not a metric we track to my knowledge and wouldn’t have any impact on my performance at all so I’m not sure we put a ton of energy into tracking that. My team and I are more interested in overall offer acceptance rates. I’m sure down the line, someone could verify that information, but it’s not something that immediately impacts us. I want you to accept my offer regardless of any human characteristics.
- As a recruiter, is it always hurtful to you when a candidate declines an offer? I’ve been talking to another company, their recruiter has been absolutely fantastic, but the onsite interview didn’t leave me enthusiastic about working there. I don’t want my recruiter feeling like I’m rejecting HIM—I’m rejecting the company.
- It does sting a little bit because we didn’t get things “over the goal line” but I try to understand your position as the candidate. Candidates are just trying to do what’s best for themselves/families/etc. I have a hard time putting my work metrics ahead of someone else’s personal well-being.
I’d tell that recruiter exactly what you said here. If you want to go above and beyond, you can write a note to their boss or the hiring manager you interviewed with (who works with the recruiter) about how great your experience was.
We don’t get that many nice notes. Haha. They’re always appreciated and a real boost.
- I’m definitely singing the praises of this recruiter, he’s been outstanding and someone other than him needs to know that. I’ll find a way to communicate this.
I just don’t see it as exclusively the recruiter’s job to close the offer; had I gotten the same level of enthusiasm and openness from the HM and interviewers as I did the recruiter, this would be a no-brainer. But ultimately I work with the HM and the rest of the team, so that’s why I’m making the call to decline. The disparity is just glaring. My experience at Amazon is far from perfect, but at least the energy and intensity is high. This other company...nowhere close. Maybe they just play it cool, but even then, it just doesn’t feel right.
For what it’s worth, the unity between Amazon’s recruiters and the HM and team was rock-solid. Made accepting the Amazon offer easy.Apr 2, 20180
- What you’re describing is the “candidate experience” and it’s something every candidate-facing employee should be aware of. Your situation is the exact reason why! You did the hard part of earning that offer! If you had enjoyed the engagement with the interviewing team, they’d have a different outcome. I’m sorry to hear about that experience.
Really glad to hear you had a good experience coming to Amazon. Every recruiter, regardless of team, wants to provide candidates with fantastic experiences. Glad to hear it happened at least once!
- From what I hear, good candidate experiences happen a lot actually, but you know how Amazon is...sharing positive feedback is kind of a rarity :-) I remember sitting in a presentation by a large design team, finding it hugely impressive and writing a note to them the next day expressing that...and got no response from any of them! Someone else mentioned that they must have been in shock and speechless 😂
Around my team though, the recruiters are talked about in very positive terms. I’ll encourage a little more sharing of that sentiment. I doubt it gets back to them. And thank you for diligently replying to the comments here, and for the work you do on behalf of candidates and Amazon!
- Why don’t/can’t recruiters give detailed feedback? Is there a legal issue? It would be more helpful if they can give specific details of each interview, so the interviewer might work on them.The feedback that I got from a FANG company was very generic.
- I think there is a legal component but I’m not exactly sure what it is. I think part of not giving feedback is that I’m just not looking for a fight. If I say “They didn’t think your code was very good” but you think you wrote the best code of your life, most people are going to get even more upset than they may have already been. In previous companies (years ago), we would deliver specific feedback and I’ve had candidates scream at me about how wrong my interviewers were and how much they didn’t know. No recruiter wants that.
Personally, if you interview for a role on my team and your feedback is, across the board, not good, then I’m not going to give any specific feedback. 1) If you bombed the interview, the feedback is going to be a long list and 2) If I deliver feedback that you don’t agree with, with all due respect, I don’t know what you’ll do with that. Candidates have email Bezos in the past to complain about past interviews. I don’t want to be the guy who does something I’m not supposed to do in the first place AND also have a candidate email my CEO to disagree and/or complain about me.
- Thanks a lot for answering our questions, but I think this culture should change. I was hoping some kind of a feedback like “did i misunderstand the question”, “did the interviewer need to repeat the question a few times”, “was I not able to come up with any solution or optimal solution”,”was I not able to solve the problem in a given time”. In academic conferences, it’s a common practice to give anonymous detailed feedback, and I don’t think anybody get offended or try to contact to the program chair, and so on. You might not agree with the feedback, but you need to grow up, and learn from your mistakes. I can’t belive people complain to the CEO, they should be nuts! Appreciate your time.
- In a lot of ways, I agree with you. I wish the policy that’s in place allowed for some sort of reasonable feedback because we do want to see candidates succeed. Additionally, if I have a candidate interview who’s close but just not quite there, I might give that candidate a bit of specific feedback. Maybe it’s right, maybe it’s wrong, but if you’re pretty close, I want to try and help you get over the bar next time. If your interview just completely didn’t go well, I’m probably not going to say anything specific simply because even if I did provide a small amount of feedback, it wouldn’t be enough to overcome the full list of things that didn’t go well. If you were super Close but just not quite there, I’m okay with giving you a 1% or 2% boost in information and feedback to get you over the hump. What I can’t do is give you a 51% boost for next time.
You’d be surprised at what candidates can do. As recruiters, we’re looking for how your professional accomplishments match up to what we’re hiring for. Unless I pick up on something you say or do that I think is an obvious red flag, I don’t really know who YOU are as a person, right? I’ve heard stories directly from coworkers of candidates emailing directors or VPs and yes, even the CEO. Once, I had an engineer complain to the hiring manager that I wasn’t offering enough money after I explained I was at the limit of what my compensation policy allowed me to do. Things like that. It’s a crazy world.
- Do you like internal employee referrals? I feel that recruiters don't care as much for employee referrals... if true, is it because you get a lower bonus from referrals vs if you were the sourcer?
- They all look the same on the scoreboard. Most companies #1 source of hire is referrals, you tend to know other people like you. As recruiters there’s no more or less credit to be earned based on the source of the resume.
Referrals make our lives easier so keep them coming!
- I do like employee referrals and can confirm they all count the same towards my metrics.
I do think it’s important to partner with your recruiter on them to help us see what you see in a candidate. If you send a candidate with no context, I’ve got a lot of digging to do, along with 50 other candidates I’m digging on. If you send me a candidate with a note saying “this is a good friend of mine and they’d make for a great X and I can personally vouch for this person”, that person will have an email in 15 minutes.
- Amazon / Engdrink!Why do I get Amazon recruiters contact me even though I'm already working for Amazon?
- Because we suck.
Okay. Kind of.
Sometimes people just hate delivering bad news and being the bad guy. Sometimes, there’s some moving pieces internally that we’re trying to get resolved and in the fray, we don’t update you appropriately. There’s a number of other reasons but, like these I’ve given, none of them are good or valid.
I can say that for every ~20 people who interview in person that I deliver the “Hey, sorry, we aren’t moving forward with an offer” message to, I get 1 person who decides to absolutely rip me a new one. I totally understand it’s out of frustration but hearing a candidate tell me how vastly superior they are to anyone they spoke with or how “your company really needs to work on X” can really be a pain. That experience can scar people. Haha. By no means is that a justified reason to not deliver bad news though.
- In general how low is the initial offer to a high IC position compared the actual top of the range for said position? I find from experience that the initial offer is typically so low it demoralizes the enthusiasm about possibly of acceptance and then you negotiate up to something you are still not excited about.
- I have no clue how to answer this question. There are a million factors that go into every offer and negotiation. I’m sorry to hear that your experience hasn’t been super positive but I wouldn’t say that a lowball first offer happens every single time. Recruiters handle offers and negotiations on a case by case basis.Dec 6, 20181
- Thanks. I can just tell you, from my side (and others I have discussed this with) is that it would be much better practice and probably have better acceptance rate if initial offers were used as a way to make prospective hires more enthused. FANG employees in the Bay all have a lot on the table (salary, bonus, equity, standing, levels, etc...) these things are hard to part with, specially if you are not in a “must leave” situation. I find initial offers only make a potential job changer more appreciative of what they already have.
Basically, if you want me to come over there and do for you what I have done for my currently employer, show me you want me. Low offers say more than it’s time to negotiate.Dec 6, 20181
- Intel jackknifeFirst of all, thank you for all your attention to this thread, especially after so many months. Most of the questions asked so far pertain to the middle or end of the process. My question is more about the beginning, when you first encounter a candidate or resume.
I'm curious about your thought process when you come across a resume or application for a job. How much time do you spend on each resume? What are the primary things you look for? How do you decide whether to call a candidate versus sending the courtesy "thanks for applying" message?
- My pleasure, jackknife! (Hey! It’s your name!)
I probably spend around 10 seconds on a resume or profile. I’m looking at everything; companies, schools, your bullet points under each job, dates of employment. Contrary to popular belief, I’m actually looking for reasons to contact a candidate. Coming from a competitor, graduating from a good school, referencing a relevant technology, things like that. I want to have a reason to reach out.
Keep in mind, I’m reaching out based on qualifications that have been given to me. If you’re someone who doesn’t get bombarded by recruiters, you’re not a bad candidate or anything. It’s simply that recruiting is a very metrics-driven role and I’m trying to get as close, at least on paper, as I can to exactly what my hiring manager is asking for. Hope that makes sense! :)Sep 11, 20183