Indian immigration issue

West Corporation theocean
Nov 9, 2018 76 Comments

[Not crying just trying to understand]
I see lot of indians are worried about immigration and visa situation.
Those who came 15-20yrs back or married to american got GC/citizenship.
But most of us(f1,h1bs, their families and dependents) are waiting and has to deal with lot of issues and uncertainty.

I think there are 3 kind of people (mostly engineers) from tech companies like
1. amazon, Microsoft, Google ... Adobe eBay...
2. Large consulting companies tcs Infosys cognizant etc.
3. Small consultancies who deal in contract, hourly salaries and are mostly involved in fake resumes, visa abuse etc.

It's very unlikely that people working in 1 would be taking any American person's job as their hiring bar is higher and they have lots of positions open & will hire anyone who fits in their requirements irrespective of whether he is american or not.

People working in 2 are mostly from indian MNCs. 60-70% of them are working in testing, test automation, SQL and db admin and other less technical work. Remaining 30-40% are working in engineering/development, something more technical or that requires specialized skills & domain knowledge.
But these folks also has to put lot of effort to get to on-site, handling on-site work as well as as offshore calls. And most importantly keeping client and their manager happy.

There is no point in talking about 3. Those who can't make it to above two are most likely to join 3. No offense but I see lot of South Indians specially Telugus in here. I guess every another person from that region wants to be in us.

Why don't the US immigration system checks applications coming from 2 thoroughly and investigate type 2 companies. These type 2 companies are nothing but white collar commission agents. they must be paying lot of money and bribe to US officials to make things work. I have seen them filing h1b applications for every other person working with them just to improve probability of getting more h1b visas.

Simply ban and take action against 3.

US immigration should make things easier for 1. If they have to leave US then their employer will send them to Canada or some other place and US will loose lot of tax money.
Also if the Americans and US immigration still hates type1 employees then why don't their employers send them back to India. They can do similar work from India for same company. I think many will go back if employers starts paying 50-60%+ of US TC in India. It will save trouble for everyone. Americans don't have to worry about indians coming to US. Indians don't have to worry about immigration issues. Employer will also save 40-50% and immigration process charges.

Am I missing something here?

No trolls please.

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TOP 76 Comments
  • Google ebgbd
    Indians are an overrepresented minority. Silicon Valley wants more African-Americans and Latinos instead of Asians and whites.
    Nov 9, 201814
    • It's not really unexpected outcome when the whole country is a mass production machine to create engineers. The quality of engineers coming from India of course has a big variance to it but if you normalize this variation by the population count and the rigorous competition to get into good universities you will still find that the number of best of the best engineers from India would still take up all the job openings in the best companies. Hence you will find a disproportionate population of engineers in good companies being Indian or Chinese.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Google egjeb
      Magikarp, this could be only decided on an individual basis, not collectively. An white kid growing up in a trailer with an absent father and a drug junky mother might have to run 400m while a black kid with an intact family of smart and loving parents only 300. Automatically assuming privilege or victim status merely based on skin color is superficial, condescending and racist.

      As to affirmative action: western women are the most privileged group of people that ever lived. In the US education at every level is catered for girls. Boys drop out of high school at a higher rate, girls enroll and graduate from higher education at a higher rate. All data points indicate that girls are privileged and boys are disadvantaged, yet, we only hear about the lies of how women are being discriminated against just because we don't have equality of outcome at high tech companies. If you point out preferential differences you get fired.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • West Corporation theocean
      OP
      I think what Google-ebgbd is saying is true. But the only way to achieve that is by encouraging & providing better education opportunities, scholarships, may be providing trainings, internships to underrepresented communities in here and in their countries and NOT by pointing finger towards overrepresented or Indians.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Prosper
      Dadahound

      Prosper

      BIO
      Tall white dude
      Dadahoundmore
      People aren’t candy that you can just pick by the colors you want.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Homeaway LOR1212
      @egjeb there is no equality of outcome. If that was the case, there will be no capitalism in this country. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

      No one can guarantee an outcome. Everyone can have equal access to resource. Whether you have the opportunity, capability, foresight, desire, qualifications to have it will differ from person to person.

      You need to enable people to have these jobs. Not give it to them. Because if you do, then it’s a socialist mindset. Something that hasn’t panned our very well across the world.

      Is this the best system? No. Can it be improved? Yes. But doing so by trampling on people who have equally worked hard to get there is true discrimination.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Amazon WishFairLk
      Be more objective in terms of smartness level: there should be more non-Indian Asians and whites.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Intel UGeJ58
      People are candy, and a company can do what they please. The big surprise is that Intel hit its huge diversity goal....2 years early! It seems like the HM's got a bit wild and the goal was accidentally reached
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Google egjeb
      Homeaway, Google aims for equality of outcome, not equal opportunity. They measure their diversity success by the increase of percentage of women and underrepresented POC.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Google / EngNeopets😍
      UGeJ58 - that’s cause it’s easy to pick up when your hiring bar is low as shit
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Yahoo / EngDumble D
      Indians are underrepresented in sports we want at least one Indian in every NBA team. At least 20 gold medals in Olympics.
      And one place in US soccer team.
      Nov 9, 2018
  • Please run your post through spell check
    Nov 9, 20180
  • LinkedIn uhQK17
    Let me guess you are in tier 1 and don’t care about the rest. While we all acknowledge that there is a problem with the current system, merely categorizing and banning a tier is not a solution. Every one’s case is unique and tier 3 people would have worked hard to come here.. I will respect them rather than looking down on them.
    Nov 9, 201810
    • Symantec / Enghaik
      If working hard to fudge a resume or searching for a person to appear for your interview, or getting fake university degrees or applying through 10 firms to get ten visa applications simultaneously in the system to gain traction on lottery is working hard, then of course.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Apple asyncAwait
      If that happens, then there is a loophole in the law that needs to be fixed. BV, checking application through multiple consultants etc should take care of it. How will this justify an RFE for some ones visa extension in the same company in the same role. We all respect the law of the land. But the sad fact that a few exploited a leaking law does not make every indian a fraud.
      I know what yout response would be. GTFO. I surely will the moment you GTFO and go back to UK from where your forefathers migrated. Oh then i remembered it did not start in UK, history says it started somewhere in Central Asia and some say it is Africa. GTFO to wherever it is.

      Sorry if it sounds rude. But generalizing the behaviour of a few rotten apples and branding them all as bad didn't quite sound right.

      Do you know of the union carbide leak that killed 100s or 1000s in india run by a US corp. We still dont generalise Americans as greedy capitalist bastards who kill people for money.
      Do you know how the American bombing of Japan destroyed a whole country. No one is generalizing here anything sir.
      Resting my case here.

      I am ready to take the racist bashing now, if that is what i get for speaking out the truth.
      Nov 25, 2018
    • Symantec / Eng0x80007005
      Stereotypes are called so for a reason, when enough people participate in a fraud it is the character of the nation to seek shortcuts.

      By your logic, if I leave my door open and someone steals my shit it is my fault, why would u leave my door open right, the actual thief is innocent. Guess what, the world doesn't work that way.

      You talk about world history, how much do you actually know about it? Can you provide evidence, probably not, but I can, about the same stuff you are talking about, google sashi tharoor's argument about how Britain owes india.

      Your example of union carbide is another horse shit example. The government of india doesn't have a spine hence the us company got away, how is that being a positive example towards India's attitude, I fail to understand.
      Nov 26, 2018
    • Apple asyncAwait
      1. My knowledge of history. :-) Not more than what I learnt in schools and read in public forums. So it might not be accurate.
      2. Leaving ur house unlocked does not make you worse than the thief who stole. You are careless and he is despicable. But that is not the point here.
      One man's act of stealing is not an evidence that an entire race or country is full of thieves. I was against the generalisation.
      3. In UC example, Indian govt forgot to lock the doors(or may be intentionally left it open for the blood money that changed hands under the table), but does that make the thief any better? And even further, does he represent an entire nation of thieves?

      I am not arguing... I am trying to understand the reason behind the generalisation and hatred and the pain it inflicts on the genuine ones.
      Nov 27, 2018
    • Symantec / Eng0x80007005
      No one is better or worse. But patterns do exist, and that is why stereotypes do.

      Let me be clear, It doesn't represent India, it represents Indians in USA. The sample set matters. And the percentage of ppl here who commuted fraud knowingly or unknowingly (CTS and other companies) are way more than genuine cases. Hence the stereotype.

      You must have heard of the word jugad. The great indian jugad. It is a shortcut, isn't it? And this is a perfect example of how jugad leads to a bad name, as a nation. And before you feel offended, I will give you a great example too, India didn't have the tech for a cryogenic engine they asked USA and was refused, so they used a slingshot to send the Mars orbitter mission to space.

      So, nothing is good or bad, those scientists in the space agency just used 'hacks' the right way.
      Nov 27, 2018
    • Symantec / Eng0x80007005
      And oh....I possibly don't know the law in Singapore, it clearly says it is the fault of the thief even if you leave your door open.
      Nov 27, 2018
    • Apple asyncAwait
      I am not convinced fully. But half heartedly i believe it is the rules of economy and basic instincts of human nature to survive at play here. Ya somethings were done the wrong way.. Not denying it 😕
      Nov 28, 2018
    • Symantec / Eng0x80007005
      Countries and government work on institutions. Each instution trusts the others and a chain of trust is created. Example: one govt will give u a visa based in your passport which is issued by the government of another country,hence another institution. It is the responsibility of the issuer of passport to ensure that it is not the weak link in the chain. So if u can buy a passport, you can get a visa, and the chain of trust is broken. So what does the govt issuing the visa do? It can stop trusting passports from that country, nothing more.

      Same is the case here, h1b is given based on ur education. If you are producing masters degree from a college in India, the govt here assumes that the said degree was earned without 'hacks' aka jugad.

      Since 1980ies India has produced tons and tons of engineers, every second college setup there is giving out degrees in comp sc. And the people teaching there know jack shit. So most the the engineers produced, also know horse manure.

      These students also have no interest in comp sc. Their interest is in coming to usa for dollar. If the same dollar can be earned by cleaning toilets, then there would be colleges teaching toilet cleaning skills in India.

      Since they are low in skills and only care about dollars they are willing to work for low wages as well.

      What can the us govt do?Change the rules or stop the visas.

      So yes, it is the fault of the indian govt that they didn't bother to do quality control in education.

      Hacks aren't always good
      Nov 28, 2018
    • Apple asyncAwait
      Hmmm.. Hehehehe. But there a lot of good people man. I see very good developers and architects who are indians. I see not all are the shitty ones. Yes this time i see your point. I personally know people who i would never even hire to clean my laptop let alone code. They have a gc, happily settled with their family in US and are helping spread the bad name for even the good ones out there.
      Nov 28, 2018
    • Symantec / Eng0x80007005
      It is always polarized. When I speak to folks who have worked with regular hires at reputed companies they say Indians rock. Sure they do, as they are the good ones. But if I speak to folks who only interacted with contractors or have had to manage them, i get the response that Indians are a shitty bunch. Unfortunately, ratio wise the shitty bunch is more in volume. And Indians get stereotyped.

      Their leader Modi should invest 400mil in quality rather than a statue, and I hear they are making a few more of those.
      Nov 28, 2018
  • Google / EngBluths
    Nothing is going to change in immigration. Don’t like it? You can always go back to India.
    Nov 9, 20183
    • West Corporation theocean
      OP
      Yes I am ready to go back.
      My last question is if I am in with your company, decide to go back and work from indian office then will the company pay me at least 50-60% of my current TC for similar work? If not then why not?
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Google / EngBluths
      Ever heard of demand/supply? That’s how the labor market works. Not based on what you “feel” you should make.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • SAP BGjC08
      Why should they? They pay local rate.
      Nov 9, 2018
  • Amazon uuyz57
    Respect the law of the country and move on, cut your losses and remember when if things doesn’t look right most probably they are not right!
    Nov 9, 20183
    • Amazon grpifabjkl
      Ah respect the law of the country argument. Shouldn't that mean this should have remained a British colony, or maybe slave owners, or maybe women should not vote, or gays should not marry.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Amazon / Mgmt𓂺a2
      Yes to all of the above
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Google / Enghooli.xyz
      Should be rephrased as “respect the law of the country and move on, unless you can do something about it instead of whining on Blind”.

      That should take care of the edge cases.
      Nov 9, 2018
  • Amazon lingading
    Immigration*
    Nov 9, 20186
    • West Corporation theocean
      OP
      Got it.
      Thanks
      Nov 9, 2018
    • I think USCIS should ban all H1B visa until the population of SV is normalized and representative of larger US metropolitan. We need more AfricanAmericans and latinos in the valley.

      Ban 1, 2, and 3. Ban them all!
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Why selective here? BTW what prevents then from getting there? You mean Indians should be penalized for working hard and succeeding with out the SJW support and forced quotas?
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Amazon / EngTroll Food
      Why don't we ban black and white people in the overrepresented neighborhood too?
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Yahoo / EngDumble D
      Nancylosy. Then it will be Valley minus Silicon.. But works for me..
      Nov 9, 2018
    • TriNet AYwy24
      @nancylosy..... you see your fore fathers jumped on boats to come. They may not have even needed a visa. The categories 1/2 are doing it the hard way... the are not jumping over walls , crawling into tunnels . Category 1 is also mostly educated in the United States by beating your Ass for those seats in the universities . So take a chill pill. All of these people pay full taxes and also social security which they may never take advantage but subsidizes the lives of your redneck brethren
      Nov 10, 2018
  • Microsoft 4655434b
    I like how the ‘immigration improvement post’ takes a swipe at south indians...

    For tier 2 paying bribes, you got evidence of that?

    And finally, laws don’t get written based on company reputations. Laws have to cover all scenarios with predictable & fair process/treatment.
    Nov 9, 20183
    • SAP BGjC08
      Every big companies lobby for favors
      We just don't call it bribe here cuz it is legalized
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Prosper
      Dadahound

      Prosper

      BIO
      Tall white dude
      Dadahoundmore
      There have been several whistleblowers in tier 2, that have increased the scrutiny on visa applications from companies in that space. For last few years, VCs systematically steer startups away from working with indian vendors till they are very big and organized like google or Facebook where its at a stage of justifiable scale and they can have offices there.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Google / Eng
      Jr6dp

      GoogleEng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      Jr6dpmore
      What is that about south Indians anyway? Not being an Indian, this is the first time I hear such remarks. Is south India considered less developed or what? (Not trying to troll, genuinely interested in the origins of this)
      Nov 10, 2018
  • TriNet AYwy24
    I was just looking up a project at fb. I don’t see any white, African American or Latin names there . What’s stopping you guys ?
    Nov 10, 20182
    • TriNet AYwy24
      This is publicly available random information
      Nov 10, 2018
    • Walmart.com s2a7
      Super like
      Jan 29
  • Apple Magikarp16
    I think they can simply start charging some money for filing an H1B application instead of only charging the full amount when an application is picked.
    Nov 9, 20182
    • VMware / EngSweetDick
      This may not work as most fake consultancies pass the h1b fee plus the lawyer fee to the candidate anyways.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Apple Magikarp16
      that sucks. It may not work for 100% of cases, but would still work for a lot.
      Nov 10, 2018
  • Flagged by the community.

    • West Corporation theocean
      OP
      Hay man
      I can't understand what are you saying. But I would like to say I have nothing against Telugus or any other people. Many of my Telugu friends are brilliant, working in very good companies and doing really excellent work.
      But there are many others who are involved with consultancies, fake Universities, fake resumes and visa abuse etc.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Zillow Group Shg7i8
      Just for fun .. take it easy 😂😀
      Nov 9, 2018
  • Microsoft khdU14
    Easy solution without hassle of complaining: go back to india
    Nov 11, 20181
    • Amazon 123raj
      👍🏽
      Nov 11, 2018
  • Google / Engquix
    @OP - I vote that people who are incapable of writing grammatically correct posts get sentenced to 10 years in Siberia, followed by deportation.
    Nov 9, 20181
    • West Corporation theocean
      OP
      Ok. I will surrender.
      Nov 9, 2018
  • Vanguard / Engkrampus
    Haha listen guy, we cant change imigration laws for stuff Americans actually care about let alone work visas for technical workers we don't really need
    Nov 9, 20181
    • Amazon 123raj
      Absolutely.
      Nov 9, 2018
  • Microsoft CoCo44
    Companies prefer hiring people on visas. They can't easily leave the company and they can be paid less. And yes, this is not good for American employees.
    Nov 9, 20181
    • SAP BGjC08
      They are not paid less unless they asked for less.
      Nov 9, 2018
  • Microsoft / EngParmatron
    Of course you should also ban tier 2. It is definitely not high skilled work.

    As for tier 1, the bar is really low sometimes, and I bet they would find Americans if they go search enough in small universities
    Nov 9, 20180
  • Qualcomm whTC47
    Nice try USCIS
    Nov 9, 20180
  • Prosper
    Dadahound

    Prosper

    BIO
    Tall white dude
    Dadahoundmore
    Here’s a simple way dealing with uncertainty. You’re special till the end of your current visa expiry. So do something to get the next renewal in specializing in your field. Start teaching, make start ups, write a book to get published or a blog with a readership: all in line with your specialization.
    Nov 9, 20183
    • Expedia %Obviously
      Awesome. Now every other colleague of yours will be busy scrambling for their next special project instead of work.
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Prosper
      Dadahound

      Prosper

      BIO
      Tall white dude
      Dadahoundmore
      Sorry!
      Nov 9, 2018
    • Expedia %Obviously
      You’re coming from a good place. Unfortunately, so was current H1b policy and that’s why it’s so easily manipulated and produces a staggering number of unintended consequences.
      Nov 9, 2018
  • Amazon 123raj
    And why the heck do u care?
    Nov 9, 20180
  • Qualcomm Jab
    American companies will never send core work outside us for security reasons. All big tech companies have legacy work or support work for the us counterparts. This is mainly to protect the IP and making sure they hold what is important close to them.
    Nov 9, 20180
  • Where are startup employees and cofounders? Every case is unique, so you can't have a blanket strategy
    Nov 9, 20180
  • Prosper
    Dadahound

    Prosper

    BIO
    Tall white dude
    Dadahoundmore
    This applies to all immigrants and not just indians: even though immigration system has its flaws, its a system and if you compare it to any system you work with at work, it has its rules.
    If you follow closely, the system requires you to be of specialized skill. So if you got stuck in the buckets 2,3 and got too comfortable in your work-life balance, you might slip and be overtaken with more specialized skilled people. The mistake most people make is sticking to one form of comfortable work and not take on challenges as they get older. As harsh as it may sound, if you’re on a visa, you need to keep on working towards proving how extraordinary you are. Think of it as a legal battle. If your do the kind of work that is slowly becoming less special because thousands of people are dong it, you’re putting yourself at risk. And that is a choice you’re making, being lazy or being special. According to the system, you can’t blame them if you just aren’t special anymore.
    Nov 9, 20181
    • Prosper
      Dadahound

      Prosper

      BIO
      Tall white dude
      Dadahoundmore
      Also the system is not designed to be fair, its designed to get america skilled workforce at competitive salaries. So if fresh grads are coming out with better training than you at the job you’ve been doing for a decade, better training might win over experience. Again, its not designed to be fair. Its designed to be beneficial to American companies.
      Nov 9, 2018
  • Microsoft engg
    That will be convenient for you. Why should anyone else support this additional overhead?
    Nov 11, 20180
  • SAP BGjC08
    Correct assessment but given the number of applications, no bandwidth to check every single one in needed details.

    Generalized treatment is not legal. It's never black and white.
    Nov 9, 20180

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