Intel contractors are second class citizens?!

Intel IRwI07
Jun 14 245 Comments

Saw the post about non blue badge employees getting excluded from our cafe benefits 😂 thought I would share the info again...basically as a cost cutting measure contractors have to pay 1.50 for a cup of fruit water 💧 🌸...Even amazon workers get free 🍌 🍌...how are contractors treated at other tech companies?

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TOP 245 Comments
  • Samsung / Admin
    bigbossvp

    Samsung Admin

    BIO
    master of BS.
    bigbossvpmore
    Contractors are second class citizens at most companies. I see that where I work and in many other companies including the GAMFA.
    Jun 14 20
    • Walmart.com / Eng nostradams
      LAWDA also (LinkedIn, Apple, Walmart, Dropbox, Apple)
      Jun 16
    • ViaSat okeb30
      Being a FTE shouldn't give you license to be a dick to contractors. But they should be protective of the company and wary of contractor work.

      Once you have had to bring in a contractor the FTEs are already in a bad position. Because they are hiring someone to do one off work that they may have to maintain after the contractor has checked out. And it is likely wirk slightly out of their wheel house which makes it harder to ensure the contractor is providing a good enough solution.

      And for ever amazing contractor doing great work there are more bad ones waiting to leave you holding the bag and provide sub par work.
      Jun 16
    • New / Data AEbX28
      I remember when I was working as a "Long-Term Temp" at USPS for about 7 years - this was about 16 years ago now, so things may have changed since I left 9 years ago, did military service and managed to get a degree. But, back then, we made about half of what the regular FTE made, 1 hour of PTO per 40 hours of work, no other benefits, and we were terminated for 1 week every year, paying out any PTO, then "rehired" for another 358 days. The only reason they didn't just use "contractors" was because of the union requirements for benefits, pay increases, and other perks that were negotiated for anyone working for the USPS for a period of 360 days or longer.

      I really look at it as no different than what it was back then - a cost saving measure by the business. It is no fun to be stuck in that position.
      Jun 16
    • eBay explorerz
      Contractors get “almost” all the benefits that FTE gets. Free food, free lunch, team parties etc. Only thing is They cannot get any monetary prizes directly and they are not invited for all hands or townhalls for which I envy them
      Jun 16
    • Microsoft cWww76
      I’m yet to see a contractor that writes a good quality code and doesn’t require detailed specification on how something should be implemented. In my experience, it is ok to assign contractors on isolated not that important projects, that can be thrown away or assigned to another contractor later. Otherwise, you would spend more time on reviewing contractor’s work than you do it yourself.
      Jun 17
  • Cisco / Eng RottenRobi
    Everyone is treated equally at Cisco - we all are second class citizens.
    Jun 14 11
    • Microsoft / Eng DeviousOps
      Because in Microsoft FTEs are mainly engineers, everyone else is mainly contractors... For engineering only small persentage of population is contractors...
      Jun 16
    • Google UODHG
      Same shit happened at Google. Contractors sued for Co employment. So now we are treating them like shit so as to not be sued again.

      Sucks how that worked out
      Jun 16
    • SAP wmmpd
      RottenRobi, this is because treating contractors as FTEs, would mean, by law, that they ARE FTEs.

      As the commentators below your comment said, companies have gotten into legal trouble and had to pay up because of this, so, for their benefit (and unfortunately, to the detriment of the contracted employee), they make sure the line of benefits and treatment of FTEs and contractors is very distinct.

      Having said that, I don't think this should be a differentiator in inter-personal relations. This should not stop an FTE (or manager) from treating a contractor with respect.
      Jun 16
    • Autodesk boba415
      Lmao this is so true
      Jun 16
    • Bank of America Private Bank / Eng
      EmprrGent2

      Bank of America Private Bank Eng

      BIO
      Creative spirit in tech. Crafting clean code and leveraging my creative brain to achieve both binary and non-binary solutions to complex business problems. 👍
      EmprrGent2more
      Yes, this was my first thought.. We are all lunch meat 😂
      Jun 16
  • Microsoft KyJeLlY
    Lol how much fruit water could contractors possibly be drinking? $100k worth per year?

    The C-Suite at Intel must piss through that per month on useless shit anyway lol
    Jun 14 2
    • Microsoft CykaBlyat
      Don't worry, they make it up by not bothering to do security reviews on their chipsets.
      Jun 16
    • Amazon / Eng NeedAVacay
      💥👏🏻 buuuuurn
      Jun 16
  • Microsoft delp
    Fuck this contracting shit! This fucking corporate greed needs to be stopped! If you need somebody to work in your office 40 hours a week, that should be your employee and treated like that. I am disgusted at how all major companies treat the contractors and pretend it's because they are "not employees" yeah, they are 60% of your work force but get nothing out of it, even if they work for years and years.
    Jun 16 4
    • Amazon / Eng NeedAVacay
      You practically can’t fire an employee without due process.

      You can street a contractor in minutes, and you don’t have to pay their health insurance.

      Honest to God, if we figured out single-payer in this country, this would get better overnight.
      Jun 16
    • Microsoft be.me
      I believe single-player would fix a lot but we also need to regulate these asshole corporations!
      Jun 16
    • Microsoft be.me
      The whole system of contractors is built on the foundation of discrimination, yet Microsoft and tech companies are shouting about diversity and inclusion and how they are pioneers in social justice!
      Jun 16
    • AIG / Product
      Raging

      AIG Product

      PRE
      Deloitte Digital
      BIO
      Counseling CxOs for AI-first strategy !
      Ragingmore
      D&I is a farce. Look at Data.
      Jun 17
  • Google 1000quiz
    +1 I am totally against contractors, they can’t do the same job even as intern, it’s waste of resource
    Jun 16 5
    • Microsoft / Eng DeviousOps
      They do the work that not even the intern want to do...
      Jun 16
    • Microsoft / Eng DeviousOps
      And often that boring, low skill work is more important than what we do...
      Jun 16
    • Microsoft be.me
      So the fact that you Leetcoded a bit more makes you better than all contractors? Yeah, some of them are doing jobs like screening violent pictures, child pornography and similar and then get nothing for all the damages. There are also highly skilled ones who were put into dead end internal toolset shit and have gotten irrelevant overtime. Fuck you dude if you think by the virtue of memorizing leetcode answers, you are better at anything other than being a hardcopy of a website!
      Jun 16
    • karma coming for you bro.... just wait... one layoff later, you’ll be complaining as a contractor for the next decade
      Jun 16
    • New zlzg812
      I can get paid for looking at violent images??
      Jun 17
  • Tesla InmR60
    At Tesla we keep them in the basement and let them come out for fresh air for 5 dollars once a week
    Jun 14 2
    • New / Strategy
      Porsche996

      New Strategy

      PRE
      Tesla Motors, BMW, Robert Bosch
      Porsche996more
      Page huh?
      Jun 14
    • Tesla YqWB61
      And that’s not just for contractors.
      Jun 16
  • IBM 叫爸
    Doesnt contractor get pay more? Like a lot more?
    Jun 16 8
    • Microsoft / Eng Goivenglav
      @IBM Microsoft and others will often only hire through these sleezy firms that pay much less. They often won’t hire an independent contractor. Perhaps this becomes the differentiating factor between consulting (where you make more for short term contribution) vs contractor (you’re there to do something of perceived lesser value but it’s necessary).
      Jun 16
    • IBM 叫爸
      I see. Thanks!
      Jun 16
    • PHD / Mktg
      awYX21

      PHD Mktg

      PRE
      Google
      awYX21more
      As someone who was contractor out of USA , you are paid less due to the middle man company.
      Jun 16
    • Avanade / Consultant MohyCS
      Hiring company pays the consulting company a lot more, and it would be cheaper for the company to just hire you directly. But the consulting firm makes you sign a non-competition agreement so you can’t work for the hiring company for the next 3 years lmao.
      Jun 17
    • PHD / Mktg
      awYX21

      PHD Mktg

      PRE
      Google
      awYX21more
      @Avanade that’s true
      Jun 21
  • Expedia / Data edia
    Microsoft is notorious for it. FTEs treat contractors really bad and tons of descrimination against them. I was an FTE there and surprised to see what was happening.

    I heard similar stories from my friends at Intel too. Only that they felt great about how bad they treat their contractors. Its like my friend at Intel bragging about how they won't let contractors to touch something like a Coke. This kind of excessive high opinion of oneself is very toxic to a company since everyone is a contributor and working as hard as they can.

    I moved to Expedia and I'm pleasantly surprised how we treat our employees. No visual distinction between ftes and contractors. Everyone has voice to pitch their idea. You wouldn't know if someone is an FTE or contractor unless you dig a few levels deep. Overall the culture at Expedia is welcoming no matter you are an fte, contractor or person of color.
    Jun 16 11
    • Nvidia caught22
      @DeviousOps think your same argument in context of sexual harassment, dick heads and company policy and honestly ask yourself who would you blame?
      Jun 16
    • Expedia gVMe85
      While I agree Expedia does a good job with inclusion, you don't have to dig a few levels deep to find out if someone is a contractor.. They have the green stripe on their badge and have a prefix on their alias. I've also seen them be excluded from department wide swag and etc. I haven't seen people be shutdown in discussions based on their employment type though which is probably more important though
      Jun 16
    • Microsoft / Eng DeviousOps
      @caught22 I am blaming the company... For letting the dickheads inside and keeping them...
      Jun 16
    • Microsoft / Eng DeviousOps
      @irqq72 your are partially correct... It makes no sense for a company to train or entertain contracts... They are not here to stay...
      Jun 16
    • Google gn
      In some communities around the office park, if you don't give TVC's food and snacks, there's nothing around the area they can go to. It's a win win for corp to help out everyone and not make it against contracting law.
      Jun 16
  • Microsoft
    Tier 1

    Microsoft

    BIO
    #1 in Prestige
    Tier 1more
    Literally anyone can get free bananas from amazon.
    Jun 14 1
    • Navy Federal Credit Union / Eng hailtrump
      if you’re a reporter Bezos will personally deliver one to you
      Jun 16
  • Microsoft be.me
    The whole system of contractors is built on the foundation of discrimination, yet Microsoft and tech companies are shouting about diversity and inclusion and how they are pioneers in social justice!
    Jun 16 9
    • Microsoft / Eng DeviousOps
      Only minority of that 45% contractors are engineers... HR, sales, customer support, group admins etc are almost all contractors...
      Jun 17
    • Microsoft / Eng DeviousOps
      And ask if those are socializing with other contractors because they are in groups... So I don't think that they get to understand the fact that they are second class citizens...
      Jun 17
    • Microsoft be.me
      You clearly don't know enough, educate yourself. We have HR, admins, engineers, sales and support as FTE and contractor across all company. They see how the different they get treated just based on the color of the badge and not their actual delivery of value. No, they don't live in an imaginary bubble eitherQ
      Jun 18
    • Microsoft / Eng DeviousOps
      Yea all orgs have contractors and FTEs... It just happens to have less contractors in engineering...
      Jun 18
    • Microsoft / Eng DeviousOps
      But we do not discriminate... We handle all of them like shit...
      Jun 18
  • Two Sigma mermaidk
    Well. Benefit (including cafe) limitation may result from the lawsuit against Microsoft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permatemp
    Jun 14 4
    • Facebook tyjs57c36
      At Facebook contractors have limitations but they still get to eat at cafes.
      Jun 16
    • Google UODHG
      @fb wait till you also get sued by contractors as Co employment
      Jun 16
    • Amazon / Eng NeedAVacay
      This is the actual answer. “Contractors” sue for benefits, the clampdown comes.
      Jun 16
    • Amazon !JeffBezos
      You would think the on-call at Amazon provides enough clarity. Do you get paged anytime of the day? No. Congratulations, you’re a customer employee that makes you level 99! You get free bananas like everyone else + sane hours!
      Jun 16
  • Facebook FSYS26
    Facebook actually does a great job on this. Contingent workers may not get indoor gym access, but the outdoor gym is great. Food is all the same. Bringing guests is the same, though it depends on the vendor/contractor company’s policy. Contingent workers aren’t excluded from all meetings like at other companies and they get most swag and can attend most events. Occasionally Boz writes a bullshit post about how he wishes contingent workers could join his AR/VR parties, which we all see through btw, but other than that, any anti-contingent sentiments is a product of douchey engineer culture born from their own social malaise and not company policy
    Jun 16 2
    • New qriH56
      As a contingent worker at Facebook I can say this is 90% true. Except we aren’t allowed to attend “All Hands” especially if you work in sales. But in my experience, my teams encourage me to attend and be apart of things I’m not supposed to (according to the company I’m contracted with.)
      Jun 16
    • Amazon / Mktg
      KDorKlay

      Amazon Mktg

      PRE
      eBay, Accenture
      KDorKlaymore
      Facebook contractors can’t eat at Harvest anymore either lol
      Jun 16
  • Google thinknot
    Google provides food and drink services to TVCs. However, TVCs are not included in all-hands, off-sites, etc. This is likely due to drawing the line at contractor vs employee.
    Jun 16 2
    • Google gn
      Thank MSFT contractors for bringing on a lawsuit. Companies cannot treat TVC's like FTE's as a result.
      Jun 16
    • VMware NSX>
      This is a tax code problem
      Jun 16
  • Apple Osho
    Like a couple of people have pointed, this practice has stemmed from Microsoft lawsuit. Companies go to great lengths to differentiate between contractors and full-time employees, so that no one ever gets confused as who they are. I see nothing wrong in doing it because contractors are hired to achieve a specific purpose and they are totally isolated from consequences of success/failure of a project. They don’t need to provide you anything that is not explicitly called out in your contract.
    Jun 16 1
    • APS WrzN83
      That is incorrect, ‘ completely isolated’ lol I think not
      Jun 16
  • Expedia jenultrax
    Contractors are second class citizens and visa workers are indentured servants; such is the way of the tech industry.

    I’ve seen senior engineers who are of Indian ethnicity not speak out on bad leadership decisions because they’re afraid of getting fired and deported.
    Jun 16 1
    • Twitter / Eng
      levels.wtf

      Twitter Eng

      BIO
      Definitely Jack Dorsey
      levels.wtfmore
      Second statement is the entire company of Cisco.
      Jun 17
  • Nvidia caught22
    This one thing that I truly love at Nvidia, every one having same $5 dinner subsidy including even security staff.. (not bothering to think about other things for now.. :))
    Jun 16 4
    • Intel pakajdj88
      A $5 dinner subsidy? Wtf? Isn’t that what your paycheck is for?
      Jun 17
    • Nvidia caught22
      No my paycheck is for better things that you may miss out on..
      Jun 17
    • Intel pakajdj88
      Didn’t take an Econ class? The value of $5 cash is worth more than a $5 dinner subsidy. You might as well get paid in frequent flyer miles.
      Jun 17
    • Nvidia caught22
      Naw man who has time for such fancy classes.. tho life did teach me that ice helps better with the burns, did you give it a try..?
      Jun 17
  • GoDaddy / IT
    fzop40

    GoDaddy IT

    PRE
    Uber
    fzop40more
    Its always been like that. Google as well. What do you propose? Strike?
    Jun 14 7
    • Google / Eng hooli.xyz
      “Google at least feeds its TVC..”

      For now. But we are starting to move TVCs out of Google buildings and into GOVO buildings. Those buildings are for contractors only so they don’t have cafeterias.

      Search for “govo” on Moma for more details.
      Jun 16
    • Google epitaph
      It is literally required that food be for the benefit of the employer not the employee in order for it to not get counted as compensation on your W-2. This means no food in contractor only sites.
      Jun 16
    • Facebook UHvC04
      When you’re out of work and a contract vendor offers you a job at a tech company, you take it and work hard to show them you’re good.
      Jun 16
    • Google UkHq61
      Fake news. The cafeteria and coffee bar doesn't have a way of telling if its a vendor or fte. Not sure about this GOVO stuff tho.
      Jun 16
    • Google SonOfCoul
      I’ve been where to a country where they moved mostly all of the TVCs to a GOVO. 1 vending machine on each floor with the choice of the equivalent of 3 to 4 snacks from the dollar discount store. REWS doesn’t even supply plastic utensils for them.
      Jun 16
  • Navy Federal Credit Union / Eng hailtrump
    Legally, contractors cannot be treated like employees, if they are this opens up the company issuing the contract to legal risk, i.e coemployment suits. That aside, this doesn’t mean FTE’s have to be dicks. At my company we differentiate between contractors and employees in a transparent and respectful manner. Contractors are treated well and many do get full time roles. And, when they convert their time as contractor counts towards their years of employment and benefits vesting/accruals. We even hot list contractors that leave for future contractor/FTE roles if they were good and their term came to an end with out a FTE role being available that they were a match for. We have alot of contract labor but it’s about as ethical as a contractor system can be in the legal environment that we operate in.
    Jun 16 0
  • Google OAoK43
    I didn't know about govo. I have absolutely hated the fact that their badges are "red" - which implies danger of some sort.
    Jun 16 2
    • Microsoft be.me
      Microsoft does Orange badge, I fucking hate that too!
      Jun 16
    • Yelp / Eng sJJv80
      At least it’s not infrared level clearance.
      Jun 17
  • Intel HWeng2005
    I find the title of this post funny...in my 14+ years working in the Fab and on engineering teams outside the Fab, green badges have always been treated as second class citizens. Not sure why there's so much surprise.
    Jun 16 0

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