Is Microsoft compensation a joke? l63/ senior level

Amazon Qlch60

Jan 23, 2018 137 Comments

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I'm about to start interviewing (shortlisting companies) and I have been looking at compensation for Microsoft and it seems sub par. I'm looking to interview at l63 and the salary estimates look lower than what I'm making currently. I'm making 230K+ currently while Microsoft pays 200K on avg for l63. Are the salary estimates incorrect. What am I missing? I'm hoping to move up to 275K at least.

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TOP 137 Comments

Microsoft MsAnde
Microsoft’s compensation is a joke period.
Jan 23, 201810 9
- Microsoft Gomandee
  Amen!! For the amount of shit we have to endure it is.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  And I thought Amazon didn't pay well.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Microsoft / Engyoloholo
  well I’m laughing at the entire thread
  Jan 23, 20180
- Autodesk / EngLostbrokenmore
  Amazon pays much better than Msft
  Jan 24, 20182
- Microsoft Gomandee
  And far more egalitarian then Microsoft... fewer entitled ass holes and less bureaucracy... happy I made the switch
  Jan 24, 20181
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  @Gomandee Do you feel that Microsoft is less bureaucratic?
  Jan 24, 20180
- Apple a1z2x3c4
  I am not sure if it’s true that Amazon always pays better than Microsoft. In the past, I have got offers from both the places at the same time and the compensation (TC) was not that different
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft Bing
  Amen
  Jan 26, 20180
- Microsoft Bing
  Hahahahah MS is a total bureaucratic shit show. If you don’t follow the process you’re manager will be told and you won’t be until your annual review.
  Jan 26, 20181
Microsoft tDrK62
I am lvl 63. If you are expecting 275k tc annually then you are dreaming. I make 197k total. I am trying to switch but it’s not easy.
Jan 23, 201810 6
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  I've the most leverage before I join. If 275k is out of reach it might not be worth it for me to interview with Microsoft.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Snapchat / EngKhalimore
  I was recently offered the following as 63 (but I destroyed the loop, had competing offers, and the interviewers loved me):
  165k base
  400k stock
  100k sign
  
  It's possible but they have to love you.
  Jan 23, 20184
- eBay whitman
  Khali how did you prepare
  Jan 24, 20180
- Snapchat / EngKhalimore
  I generally don't prepare besides brushing up on some algos. I find that too much preparation is a detriment.
  Jan 24, 20180
- eBay whitman
  Did you end up joining Snapchat?
  Jan 24, 20180
- Snapchat / EngKhalimore
  I joined Snapchat prior to receiving the offer. This offer was given to me in the last year. I've been at Snap for over 4. I'm looking to leave because I'm no longer confined in the financial prison that is Snap vesting.
  Jan 24, 20180
Amazon / EngJustFOokItmore
MS can do 275ish for new hires
Jan 23, 20186 6
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  This sounds positive
  Jan 23, 20180
- Microsoft rgbffcc66
  Yes, for L63 is 155k+20+20.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Isn't that 194k
  Jan 23, 20183
- Microsoft SCORCH
  Is it? Or is it 195k? If only we knew spelling
  Jan 24, 20183
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  My father will forever be disappointed by my math skill.
  Jan 24, 20182
- Amazon FriendZone
  How about for non tech roles @L63?
  Feb 22, 20180
Microsoft / EngcodeGuy
You are ignoring the bonus and the stocks which is very significant in Ms contrary to AMZN
Jan 23, 20186 5
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  I'm hoping I'm wrong. If they do go 275 or more it would be worth it.
  Jan 23, 20182
- Microsoft richardhea
  Target do 63 is laughable. Do not bother coming for anything below 66-67.
  🍆
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft onlythis
  Might be able to push it to 275 TC for l63 since you're a new hire. But for old dogs that's I think entry level principal, l65.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft Bing
  I don’t know what team in amazon you applied for but I was earning 170k total at MS. I just got an offer from Amazon for 320k. Cya MS
  Jan 26, 20185
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  That sounds like SDE3 compensation. I'm currently at SDE2 level.
  Jan 26, 20180
Microsoft talespin
Add 50k for you wlb,401k, yearly bonuses
Jan 23, 20185 8
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  WLB is pretty good right now so there are no complains there. I want more $.
  Jan 23, 20181
- Microsoft talespin
  And the other 2?
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  401k Microsoft wins hands down. I'd include yearly bonus in total comp.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Autodesk / EngLostbrokenmore
  What is wlb
  Jan 24, 20180
- Autodesk / EngLostbrokenmore
  How much % is yearly bonus at Msft ?
  Jan 24, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  wlb = work life balance
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft talespin
  Generally 15% if you perform ok
  Jan 24, 20180
- Cruise Automation / EngCruising90
  Had a l63 offer in Bay Area, it was $230k.
  Jan 24, 20180
Microsoft kingkung
I'm 62 and make over 200k TC. I'm surprised so many L63 are making less than me. Is this all SDE roles?
Jan 24, 20182 6
- New / Enghiskyliumore
  Are you in Seattle area? How many years have you been L62?
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft kingkung
  Yes in Seattle. Ive been L62 for less than 2 months. Been at MS since graduating college 3 years ago.
  Jan 24, 20180
- New / Enghiskyliumore
  I heard MS usually gave more RSUs to graduate hire. I am a new hire at L63 in Azure team. I was only gave 120k/4 stocks.
  Jan 24, 20181
- Microsoft mfpF03
  It is expected. There is a wide gap in compensation between top performers and the plebe at Microsoft. I know a couple 62 making more than the average 64 and even a 63 making more than the average 65 because they max out on bonuses and get substantial special awards.
  Jan 24, 20182
- Microsoft kingkung
  It's true that part of that 200k is SSA. Still, I don't consider myself an amazing performer.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft mfpF03
  You hierarchy certainly thinks that you are a top performer.
  Jan 24, 20181
Oracle Bvdhk
You compare your TC with stock appreciation fucking noob
You aren't worth 230k, that's not what amazon intended to pay you.

Probably more like 180, which make Microsoft be a better offer.

And if you include espp, 401k and co it is 20k more than amazon.

Stop the greed
Jan 23, 20185 6
- Microsoft Ttikh
  Why is it so hard to believe OP's pay? Amazon L5 touches 250k. It's well known.
  Jan 23, 20181
- Oracle Bvdhk
  After stock appreciation or with good bonus in the first year.
  
  I was a hiring manager at aws 4 months ago, you can't make an offer at 250 for sde 2 without going above the band
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  It's obvious that my TC includes the inflated stock price. And it does for every other SDE as well. I'm compared salaries with other SDE 2s and everyone is in the same range. L63 maps to SDE2 - SDE3 which should be around 250K which is the overlap band for Amazon.
  
  You call it greed I call it optimization.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Microsoft / EngChancey
  OP if you didn’t inflate your stock price, with your base what is your total comp in today’s dollars? I was told that if you are average at Amazon you get no bonus and no stock that year so you could be stuck with just $125k?
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  I've been getting new stock YOY. Without inflation I would have been around 190-200 TC.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft / EngChancey
  So average Joe level 63 is already higher than that if you include the salary, bonus, stock, 401k matching. Not even including the other benefits. I usually just use today’s stock price because you never know what will happen.
  Jan 24, 20180
Microsoft / EngCoc7more
Op, make sure you can pass the L63 bar. Sounds like you haven’t interviewed yet.
Jan 23, 20183 3
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  It would be hilarious if I'm not able to clear the bar after all my trash talk.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Microsoft Draco007
  It'll be easier for you to clear the bar if you're interviewing with a team you have experience with. Say if you work in RDS, then interview for Sql Azure. That way, you're a shoo in.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft / EngDannyAmmore
  Hahaha! Yeah op! All that trash talk. Make sure you can pass the bar
  Jan 24, 20181
Microsoft Draco007
Lol you don't come to Microsoft for the money. You come here for good WLB with above average salary. Although on teams like Azure, even WLB is shit
Jan 23, 20184 3
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  I was planning on interviewing at Azure.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft Draco007
  Haha, well then you're out of luck bud. We have a few ex-Amazon sde guys on our team and they're not happy either. I personally am still here because of a few health issues but once that clears I'm out!
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft / EngpCQG20
  Not true everywhere. Azure is a huge place with some really good spots that have good WLB
  Jan 24, 20180
Microsoft ObtQ04
200k is less? What do u do with all the money? Which planet u live on ? Such threads make me sick.. people are becoming so much materialistic, money does not bring you happiness when will we awaken to this universal fact?
Jan 23, 20182 2
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  It's all relative. I don't usually go for expensive things. I spend money on travel and shoes and I invest a lot. I like having money and I know the value of 200k. But I think I'm worth more than it currently.
  Jan 23, 20182
- Apple Bnhjk56
  $200k gets you nothing in Bay Area. A decent SFH in good school district runs $1.5-$2.5M
  Jan 23, 20180
Microsoft SiteLive
As a top lvl 64 my total comp was 271k last year. This included base salary, stocks, cash award and even special stock award. Didn't included previous years stock vesting. And I was a lead in R&D. Sure if you add benefits its more generous (401k, ESPP and medical benefits are very generous) but 270k for a new hire at 63 seems too high to be true. This said WLB at Microsoft is very good.
Jan 23, 20182 6
- Microsoft ToTheMoooo
  Woah that’s good. What’s your base?
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  I don't think I'm bringing that much to the table.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft SiteLive
  My base was around $185k.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft SiteLive
  Btw I am no longer at msft. Took a jump and increased my comp by 40%.
  Jan 24, 20181
- Microsoft ToTheMoooo
  Nice. Where are you now?
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft SiteLive
  I can't say unfortunately as I have a key position that is easily recognizable.
  Jan 24, 20180
Microsoft / EngXGsa73more
I was l63 last year at msft my total comp was 200k (base 145k). Joined google at l4 few months ago total comp 310k (base 155k).
If you have competing offers you can negociate the comp/level 63/64 are still in the same band after all.
Jan 25, 20183 4
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Google is my end game.
  Jan 25, 20180
- Microsoft / Design206wrkr
  Have you found that it is any more or less work / stress for the increase?
  Jan 26, 20180
- Microsoft Draco007
  Yeah seems like an overall $100k comp diff between G and msft
  Jan 26, 20180
- Microsoft / EngXGsa73more
  To 206wrkr: at the moment it's comparable stresswise.
  Jan 26, 20180
New / Enghiskyliumore
270k in Seattle for L63 is really high. New hire (L63) here: 151k + 40k/2 + 120k/4 + 0-30% yearly bonus. No negotiation.
Jan 23, 20183 3
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Did you have competitive offers though?
  Jan 23, 20180
- New / Enghiskyliumore
  Yes I have 3 other offers. I am actually not very good at negotiating. I got numbers from NVD and Oracle BMC after I accepted the oral offer from MS. When I asked HR to match, he said no, because I already accepted the oral offer. I still chose MS though Oracle's initial tc is 30k more per year.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Negotiation is hard without data and/ or leverage. Your offer is still very good though so I won't really complain.
  Jan 23, 20180
Google / EngNotAnHRSpymore
200k salary or total comp? 200k salary for a L63 sounds way out of the norm. (Sounds right for TC)
Jan 23, 20183 1
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  200k total comp seems low for L63 when the equivalent comp at Amazon would be 250k
  Jan 23, 20180
Snapchat / EngGosnap!
OP is comparing his Amazon TC with appreciated stock with MS TC. Not gonna happen. With 125k base your target TC at amzn won’t be 230k
Jan 23, 20182 12
- Microsoft / EngCoc7more
  Then interview after SDE3 to have more leverage.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Oracle RealLarrymore
  If you are that close to SDE3 then shouldn’t you get the leveled at 64 at Microsoft
  Jan 23, 20180
- Microsoft / EngCoc7more
  Being close to SDE3 != SDE3. Plenty of sde2s feels they are close but only few makes it.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  From the data I gathered L63 seemed like the level between L5 and L6.
  
  I could be completely off about being close to SDE3.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Oracle RealLarrymore
  Fair point. I wonder though, when does Microsoft decide on the level. I recall being told it is pre full loop, but not sure before or after phone screen.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft / EngDannyAmmore
  At MSFT, your Level is set pre full-loop, but if you don’t meet the bar, then you either get offered L62 or a rejection (if we don’t have a headcount for L62 and/or believe you won’t make it to L63 soon).
  
  Sometimes it’s set before phone screen as well, if you apply for a Senior position, but certainly pre full loop.
  Jan 24, 20180
- Oracle uzvB
  If you are close to SDE3 stay AMZN. Then you can be 65 at least in Microsoft. Microsoft senior is a joke. I wound say most l63 even cannot do SDE2 job in Amazon
  Jan 26, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Are you supposed to request the level before interviewing. L65 seems more of upper SDE3 level. I'm basing this off levels.fyi
  Jan 26, 20180
- Oracle uzvB
  Let me put this way, I know tons of l63, l64 to amazon as sde2, why you want that move to Microsoft? Get sde3 and stay for one year, then you can reach l65
  Jan 26, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Hoping to change things up. Will try other companies as well.
  Jan 26, 20180
Microsoft BingLoc
What’s your current level? You should ask for L65 if you are SDE3
Jan 23, 20180 6
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  I'm SDE2 currently. Close to 6 years of experience. I don't think I have the skill set for L65.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon / Engsomecsdude
  If you were to stay at your team, how long do you think you need for a promo?
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Should be within a year.
  Jan 23, 20181
- Amazon / Engsomecsdude
  I would get that sde3 title. Then should be able to get a 330k+ offer on this market, if you do well in interviews and have competing offers etc.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  I haven't been having "fun" lately and was hoping for a change. But looks like finally and career wise staying put makes sense.
  Jan 23, 20181
- Microsoft Jeffbee
  L65 for someone with 6-7 years of exp is super hard. OP did his/ her research and is interviewing for the right level I would say.
  Jan 23, 20180
Microsoft / EngCoc7more
$250k may be possible with large stock grant.
$160k/$250k/$30k sign on.

Typically L63 makes around $200-$220k.
I am making $215k ish. Adding the 401k and other perks which is another $20k, totalling $235k ish.
Jan 23, 20180 2
- Facebook / Engcevc12
  How many years it takes from Level 59 to 63 ?
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft / EngDannyAmmore
  4-10 yrs. varies by org as well.
  
  4 = absolute superstar.
  Average is ~7 yrs.
  In Bing & Azure, average = 5 yrs.
  Jan 24, 20182
Microsoft Jeda0129
Depends on team but 275K+ base at 63 seems impossible.
Jan 23, 20181 5
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Definitely not base. I'm looking at total comp. Base + stocks + bonus + sign on.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Microsoft Jeda0129
  What's your current base ?
  Jan 23, 20180
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  ~125
  Jan 23, 20180
- Autodesk / EngLostbrokenmore
  For level 63 how many years of workex is required ??
  Jan 24, 20180
- Microsoft ツ
  275 TC is definitely doable
  Jan 24, 20180
Microsoft ToTheMoooo
Stay at Amazon then
Jan 23, 20181 3
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Looks like it. Was hoping for something new and Microsoft is a pretty good company.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Oracle RealLarrymore
  If I was at Amazon (and I was earlier), Microsoft would come after FB, Google, Uber, Lyft, and numerous others.
  Jan 23, 20180
- Microsoft M$FT100
  Before oracle for sure
  Jan 29, 20180
Microsoft / EngMs67897more
It's possible for new hires. On average yes MS pays less at L63 but not for everyone.

I am L63 and my current TC is about 245K. I'll be 64 this year which should push it higher.
Jan 23, 20181 2
- Microsoft ToTheMoooo
  What’s your base? If you don’t mind me asking
  Jan 23, 20180
- Microsoft / EngMs67897more
  161K
  Jan 23, 20180
Microsoft / EngChancey
If you kick butt theoretically you can make about $275k total comp if you include 401k, Cadillac health plan and ESPP. If you are incredibly good you can even get a special stock award. Average Joe is around $155k + 15% + $17k + 9k (401k) + ESPP discount.
Jan 23, 20181 1
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Thanks
  Jan 24, 20180
Microsoft / Design206wrkr
It’s more like 150k + 15k + 15k, it’s not good and nowhere near $275 TC.
Jan 23, 20180 1
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Yeah. Those are the numbers I found online.
  Jan 24, 20181
Amazon 4oreigner
Don’t interview microsoft.
Jan 23, 20181 1
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Sure
  Jan 23, 20180
Microsoft / Producthello sark
MS targets pay at 70% of industry. That should tell you enough of what to expect.
Jan 26, 20181 0
Amazon Don’tEnter
Haha
Jan 24, 20180 1
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  :>
  Jan 24, 20180
Cruise Automation / EngCruising90
Had a l63 offer in Bay Area, it was $230k total comp (including 15% bonus)
Jan 24, 20180 1
- Financial Engines zimmermore
  What's is the split?? Did you get the merit rise this year. How did it look like..
  Mar 170
Autodesk / EngLostbrokenmore
Why did u still choose Msft
Jan 24, 20180 1
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  I would like to remain in the Greater Seattle Area.
  I know a few people who work for Microsoft and they seem happy. I don't talk compensation with them so that was an unknown.
  Microsoft has talented folks and I feel it would be a good experience working there.
  Jan 24, 20180
Microsoft rqNt00
At senior base should be around 160-170k. At this level you can make up to 35k in stocks + 35k in annual performance review at the very top end. This makes it 240k. Honestly I would put it at 210k if we’re being realistic. For the remaining 65k you need to fill the gap with joining cash and stocks best which seems doable
Jan 23, 20180 1
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Looks like I'll need to negotiate hard.
  Jan 24, 20180
Microsoft Jeda0129
There is another thread where someone at MS is at l63 and got offer from FB and Google. MS is not a paymaster. Its possible to get offer you are expecting but as you said... Not easy in MS
Jan 23, 20180 1
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Thanks, I'll look it up.
  Jan 23, 20180
Lending Club Urchin
Kill yourselves
Jan 23, 20180 1
- Amazon Qlch60
  OP
  Nah. I rather earn more $.
  Jan 23, 20180

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Is Microsoft compensation a joke? l63/ senior level

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