Compare PIP in Amazon with similar tactics used at Google, linkedin, msft, fb
Its a culture facet here. It’s taboo elsewhere. Likely similar rates.
Pip at amazon means they want you to leave and the chance you pass the pip is infinitesimal
Over the last year Amazon has been using pips heavily to decrease headcount and is not necessarily related to performance
Disagree...1 out of every 7-10 people goes into a pip or dev list. It's usually someone in the lower quarter of performers. You hear horror stories about managers getting rid of people that they are threatened by but that is super rare and not normal at all. Perform well...be safe.
No true. Kiss your manager axx well... Be safe.
This is really terrible , I am joining next week
I’ve known one person that survived a PIP. I’ve been doing this work for many years.
Facebook is at least as aggressive at performance management. Probably more. Lots of people get summarily PIPed after mere months. Google does PIP people and manage them out, but at a much lower rate than Amazon. Maybe 1% vs. 5-6% per annum? And it is truly taboo at Google - very few people talk about it. As I understand it, it is up to manager and director discretion, there are no strict unregretted attrition targets like Amazon has - that is the big difference. I do not know about MSFT and LinkedIn but they do definitely have PIPs, but don't think they have strict target percentages either (tell me if I am wrong).
IR/ZR is the way to force people out at MSFT I don't think there's any required percentage there, it's just completely at the discretion of the manager and nobody really questions them if they decide to do it, so it's a little bit fucked up
Amazon’s biggest fear is missing out on good talent and puts people on PIP easily because the model is “low hiring bar, high PIP” to optimize on minimizing false negatives. Path to L6 virtually seems like a brutal two level long internship and it shows. You can see this if you’ve worked with people from Amazon. L4-L5’s from Amazon have been some of the shittiest engineers who tirelessly oversell the Amazon brand even though they either were gracefully let go or left because they realized they aren’t cut out for L6 while L6+ engineers from Amazon are nothing short of stellar. The gap between an L4-5 and and L6+ is bigger than anywhere else. It’s like “anyone with half a brain can get in but only a select few survive.” Hunger game mode of software engineering. Google’s model is “high hiring bar, low PIP” to optimize on minimizing false positives. Pretty straightforward. Facebook seems like the most brutal with “high hiring bar, high PIP” based on my observation. We can call it optimizing on productivity, but FB doesn’t seem to care for great engineers in an unproductive state however temporary.
They have a shitty hiring bar, hence pip is necessary.
Shitty hiring bar for managers. Amazon has so many ahole managers.
How quickly can someone be PIPed at Amazon?
Seriously I am scared about this, because I am joining on receipt
@Raymondz I advise you to stop worrying. You got hired now go do a great job!! Be involved, ask questions, take notes and be productive. It’s going to look good on your resume.
Amazon’s biggest fear is missing out on good talent and puts people on PIP easily because the model is “low hiring bar, high PIP” to optimize on minimizing false negatives. Path to L6 virtually seems like a brutal two level long internship and it shows. You can see this if you’ve worked with people from Amazon. L4-L5’s from Amazon have been some of the shittiest engineers I’ve worked with who tirelessly oversell the Amazon brand even though they were either gracefully let go or left after realizing they aren’t cut out for L6 while L6+ engineers from Amazon are nothing short of stellar. The gap between an L4-5 and L6+ is bigger than anywhere else. It’s like “anyone with half a brain can get in but only a select few survive.” Hunger game mode of software engineering. Google’s model is “high hiring bar, low PIP” to optimize on minimizing false positives. Pretty straightforward. Facebook seems like the most brutal with “high hiring bar, high PIP” based on my observation. We can call it optimizing on productivity, but FB doesn’t seem to care for great engineers in an unproductive state however temporary.
It means you're fired