Is diversity really required?

Amazon undertaker
May 26, 2018 98 Comments

Why there is so much fuss about having diversity in team/org/company?
What good does diversity brings in?
I feel this is unfair to others if someone is not getting job he applied for just because they needed a diversity candidate to fill the position even if that guy is way better for that role.

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TOP 98 Comments
  • New / Eng
    Ironmann

    New Eng

    PRE
    Google
    Ironmannmore
    People around the world think differently and have different approaches to solving problems. When you bring them together you solve some of the biggest challenges.

    Or you can resort to picking the best only in which case the work place will be filled with Indians
    May 26, 2018 11
    • Sick burn!
      May 26, 2018
    • TuneIn Gfdcbhhjj
      @Expedia, the brightest engineers( we talk about engineers here right) I know, are not indians, not even close. Indians can be good code monkeys, but not an engineers ( if you know the difference)
      Also, does google and microsoft were established by those people from asia? Hmm not sure
      May 26, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng Pen Island
      How do you explain what happened to eBay, Cisco, and many others? They sure aren't the best anymore.

      They are hands down the most cut throat in politics, for sure.
      May 26, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      Companies here only hire Indians from India because they don’t get green cards, and therefore are under constant fear of being fired.

      This means they can be under-paid relative to actual hours worked. But it also means these employees have no incentives to take risks or innovate much on their own.
      May 26, 2018
    • TuneIn Gfdcbhhjj
      That has something to do with the lack of diversity for sure. 90% of those companies employees are indians
      May 26, 2018
  • Oracle / Other 👇🏻privil
    The privileged ones prefer to hire the same crowd even though that crowd might be worse than the underrepresented crowd. Diversity is to give the underrepresented qualified candidates an opportunity to be included because the privileged ones will hire their own under qualified candidates over the underrepresented qualified candidate
    May 26, 2018 9
    • Uber rPkl34
      Seriously what is this back magic data?
      May 26, 2018
    • Google / Eng
      Multics

      Google Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      BIO
      dev
      Multicsmore
      There is no data to back up. The diversity min just throw whatever crap some other mob made up as truth.
      May 26, 2018
    • Amazon Jexx
      There is a HUGE amount of data backing this up. Literally hundreds of studies. For example, here’s a simple one. Send identical resumes to companies with only a single change - switch the name from a “likely white” to a “likely black” name. Callbacks are massively higher for the “white” name. Trivial to study, replicated many times.
      Stuff like this can fuck black people badly.
      May 26, 2018
    • Amazon / Eng Pen Island
      Symphony blind auditions are now done with candidates entering and leaving bare feet because that produce a different result than if the verdicts were able to tell the gender by shoe types.
      May 26, 2018
    • CareerBuilder JonDoe1
      If you haven't seen the data it's because tpu haven't looked. That's cool, nobody knows everything. But to attempt to confidently say there is no such data when you haven't even looked makes you part of the problem. If you don't know about a topic, keep quiet about it.
      May 27, 2018
  • CareerBuilder JonDoe1
    What do you mean by required? You can build and ship a product without diversity, but the data shows returns tend to be maximized by a diverse workforce. That's not to say a non-diverse workforce can't produce good results.
    May 26, 2018 12
    • Google / Eng
      eYiX63

      Google Eng

      PRE
      Airbnb
      eYiX63more
      Isn't Yahoo the company where the exec team went from 1/7 women to 6/7 women and then failed a few months later?
      Before that everyone was in love with Marissa Meyer
      May 27, 2018
    • CareerBuilder JonDoe1
      As far as you know is wrong. There is an established causal link.
      May 27, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      Link to causation study please.
      May 27, 2018
    • Revinate / Data JPQ
      Yahoo also got rid of work from home, an important conflating factor, but they were sucking it up long before Meyer.
      May 28, 2018
    • Amazon Predatorr
      Very interesting - "We found no evidence for a direct relationship between team gender or ethnic diversity and the team processes or performance". So, the paper then makes the following observation from the Study: Business Case for Diversity = (1) Talent Shortage (2) Need to understand and think like the Customer. This paper is from 2003, I wonder if the observations would be any different now; Are there any other Research data trying to find a link between Diversity and Business Results.
      Jun 10, 2018
  • Twitter Bit505
    Is there really such a thing as diversity hires?
    May 26, 2018 7
    • TuneIn Gfdcbhhjj
      @Mirthy things you wrote are terrible

      May 26, 2018
    • TuneIn Gfdcbhhjj
      What if candidate was hired for the team where all the members are black, but candidate was white is she/he was considered as URM?
      May 26, 2018
    • Intel Mirthy
      @Tunein: LOL, no. URM is not a relative definition. There is no such thing as an URM white guy hire in Africa.
      May 26, 2018
    • Twitter Bit505
      Very interesting, Mirthy!
      May 26, 2018
    • Revinate / Data JPQ
      It is relative. It would not be the same thing in other countries where a company has offices. Diverse in France would include "minorities" you wouldn't think of in the US.
      May 26, 2018
  • Oracle / Other 👇🏻privil
    It’s very clear that those who think diversity is a joke are the ones who have privileges and don’t really give a shit about others. As ru Paul,I would say “sheeshay away”
    May 26, 2018 4
    • Facebook / Eng Plz
      I might not give a shit about others, but I don’t give a shit equally regardless of your stupid group identity
      May 26, 2018
    • Oracle / Other 👇🏻privil
      Sheeshay away your arrogance. Your attitude doesn’t make the world better and the karma will get back to you. Go away and don’t show your ugly face
      May 26, 2018
    • Apple / Eng NexTime
      I’m black and I think this diversity push is a joke. I am fine with diversity of though and opinions but I don’t care about superficial diversity like skin color or gender.
      May 26, 2018
    • Uber vfOb56
      What’s sad is you think there’s a company out there that gives a shit about you
      Jun 26, 2018
  • New
    Qwned

    New

    PRE
    Amazon
    Qwnedmore
    This post makes a common mistake of thinking diversity is only based on culture/ethnicity. There are many other dimensions to diversity including but not limited to gender, thought process, leadership methodology, sexuality, and so on.

    With that in mind, research has shown that while diversity may not materially impact businesses positively or negatively in terms of business metrics, it helps companies reflect the world in all its diversity which is beneficial for society overall. Not everything has to be about TC :)
    May 26, 2018 11
    • New
      Qwned

      New

      PRE
      Amazon
      Qwnedmore
      Still the condescension continues lol. Feel free to cite the data sources you’re referring to rather than making subjective claims aka opinions which aren’t really backed by verifiable sources.
      May 27, 2018
    • CareerBuilder JonDoe1
      You first, child. Perhaps the reason you are continually condescended to is because you are stupid?
      May 28, 2018
    • New
      Qwned

      New

      PRE
      Amazon
      Qwnedmore
      Says the guy who couldn’t spell John Doe correctly. I already shared my source but you were too busy trying to come up with unsubstantiated claims.

      The irony is we are both on the same page regarding being pro-diversity. I’m still waiting for you to share data that shows it has a material positive impact. Just saying something doesn’t make it true. Otherwise we’d all have infinite TC.
      May 28, 2018
    • CareerBuilder JonDoe1
      Being a normal human being, I don't have such data on my phone. Are you willing to pay for the peer reviewed data? It is not available for free.
      May 29, 2018
    • New
      Qwned

      New

      PRE
      Amazon
      Qwnedmore
      I’ve heard excuses before but this is right up there. Sure I’ll pay for it if you just share the link to the research on here. See you never!
      May 29, 2018
  • Collective Health / Other H5k(8@
    Diversity is more focused on inclusion. I believe it’s important to insure opportunities for those that are underrepresented. When you have diversity you introduce an open and inclusive culture. Employees do more than what is written in their job description.
    May 26, 2018 0
  • Expedia Mg-fan
    What if the Native Americans thought diversity was not so important several hundred years ago? Aren’t we celebrating thanksgiving to celebrate their inclusive mindset?
    May 26, 2018 5
    • New / Eng Mittens
      I can’t tell if you’re sarcastic...
      May 26, 2018
    • Expedia Mg-fan
      Just making a point that diversity and inclusiveness is what brought us together. Though we all have our differences, working with another race/ ethnicity / gender etc is giving us the opportunity to see,understand and learn many positive things from each other. Let’s not focus on the few negatives here and there.
      May 26, 2018
    • Amazon Jeff Bеzоs
      It didn’t work out very well for them, though, did it?
      May 26, 2018
    • Revinate / Data JPQ
      There was no bringing together. They got killed enmasse, and are now such a minority that they are ignored.
      May 26, 2018
    • Cisco Mmm..donut
      ^ This. European diseases ravaged the Americas, some archeologists say as high as 90% kill rate, well before serious colonization efforts took place in North America
      May 26, 2018
  • Google / Eng
    eYiX63

    Google Eng

    PRE
    Airbnb
    eYiX63more
    The US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission expects companies to be racially diverse. They've issues warnings against the high tech sector. This is the driving force.

    Large. Companies. Don't. Want. To. Be. Sued.
    May 26, 2018 4
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      They’re just trading one lawsuit for another.
      May 26, 2018
    • Google / Eng
      Multics

      Google Eng

      PRE
      Microsoft
      BIO
      dev
      Multicsmore
      That BS commission is a racist group for parasites to make a living.
      May 26, 2018
    • Google / Eng
      eYiX63

      Google Eng

      PRE
      Airbnb
      eYiX63more
      Employees are not allowed to come up with class action lawsuits. They have to engage in arbitration. Read your contract.

      Rejected candidates don't have enough information to challenge their interview outcome. Who's gonna sue them?
      May 27, 2018
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      They can still sue after they leave, usually.
      May 28, 2018
  • I’m an Asian guy and I give preference to other Asian guys. I like to hire people who are similar to me.
    May 26, 2018 5
    • TuneIn Gfdcbhhjj
      Fucking racist
      May 26, 2018
    • Lol I don’t give a fuck. I rather work with people who I can see myself hanging out with our relate to more.
      May 26, 2018
    • Google / Eng
      eYiX63

      Google Eng

      PRE
      Airbnb
      eYiX63more
      Troll. Sounds like a caricature
      May 27, 2018
    • This sounds right.

      Except it’s the minorities in HR who have the diversity preferences.
      May 27, 2018
    • Revinate / Data JPQ
      HR doesn't make the hiring decision.
      May 28, 2018
  • Google Trump,D.
    Diversity is required for PR and that’s it. The experiment that show diversity helps companies doesn’t replicate. Anyway I support Google appeasing the idiots.
    May 26, 2018 2
    • CareerBuilder JonDoe1
      Which experiment are you referring to? I wouldn't call the statistical evidence usually used to justify a diverse workforce an "experiment," per se.
      May 26, 2018
    • LinkedIn ggtots
      And that evidence would be...?
      May 26, 2018
  • Facebook Its Sheryl
    Because us women and minorities are tired of having White and Asian men be the majority and treating us in a condescending way.
    May 26, 2018 1
    • Microsoft Anitadick
      Find your safe space
      May 26, 2018
  • Apple / Eng Marijuana
    It depends.

    The people who manufactured your phone are ~99% Chinese. Bringing diversity in won’t help improve products much.

    At my last job, I wrote USB drivers. It basically required us to follow a spec. I’m not sure what improvements diversity could bring, because our end product had to conform to a predefined industry spec.

    Things like UX design and arguably front-end engineering are probably where it matters.

    I have no experience outside of engineering, but it probably matters in HR, marketing, and growth etc.
    May 26, 2018 2
    • Amazon MEFY70
      Except where it helps the culture as a whole. If a company hires 99% Chinese men opts to to focus on more equitable hiring practices, women and men of other races aren’t kept out of the workforce simply because a hiring manager is more comfortable (consciously or subconsciously) with employees that look like him. This allows those other groups to work, which trickles positive effects like, I dunno... FOOD and resources being offered to those near to and dependent on them. And that diverse team may go on and find it to be easier to hire diverse teams later, which means someday everyone has a fair shot at roles they’re qualified for.
      May 26, 2018
    • Uber vfOb56
      @MEFY70 all I understood from that rant is companies should have the same goal as soup kitchens. Who says managers hire people because look like them? Ever heard of correlation? Getting a job isn’t about fairness it’s about satisfying demand at the right time, place, and cost. Get your head out of the clouds
      Jun 26, 2018
  • Microsoft / Eng roj
    Diversity means they don't want to hire white jerks anymore.
    May 26, 2018 0
    • Apple / Eng Marijuana
      Correlation != causation.
      May 28, 2018
  • Workday / Other MangoMan
    Wonder if you would still be saying this if Native Americans had followed such a philosophy 400 years back
    Jun 17, 2018 3
    • Oracle / Other Duhduhduh
      Native Americans welcomed white men. They fed white men and gave them opportunities. What happened? White men raped native Americans and destroyed their beautiful civilization.

      Disclaimer. I’m a white guy
      Jun 18, 2018
    • Workday / Other MangoMan
      You reap what you sow
      Jun 19, 2018
    • Oracle / Other Duhduhduh
      Don’t talk to me again
      Jun 20, 2018
  • Deloitte PVaQ48
    Yes.
    May 28, 2018 0
  • CareerBuilder JonDoe1
    it doesn't prove causation, but it's a good marker for further evaluation
    May 28, 2018 0
  • Amazon / Eng Pen Island
    It is god to have a balanced point if view so you are not blinded in an echo chamber. Just a diversity quota won't do much alone.

    That's what killed Nokia, because they shoot the messengers who said they are falling behind.

    That's also how "talents" in Cisco had dropped from the top of the market to bottom in 15 years, because they are pretty much all politics dominated by one group of the same people.

    Same for eBay, same for MS, and I have a feeling it will be the same for Google very soon.
    May 26, 2018 0
  • Oscar / Eng
    tc/gtfo

    Oscar Eng

    BIO
    Fuck you, but wats up bro.
    tc/gtfomore
    How do we do diversity...? Job applications have race/ethics. So companies actually use that data? What about LGBT group? How does a company increase the ratio? Where does the data come from? Very confused.
    May 26, 2018 0

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