In particular I don’t see anything else to replace leetcode from big companies’ PoV. They are simply too big to have people submit homework lol. Thoughts?
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- Apple JuicyBaeNone. Leetcode is the surefire way to figure out if a senior engineer absolutely know their stuff.
- Pinterest DhdjdnnfuxOne good thing about data structures and algo questions is there is no room for interpretation. Either you can code something you know or you can’t. However, this has gotten out of hand with leetcode, but in general algos remain a very good way to test someone’s coding ability. The take homes, white board or pair programming assume too many skills.Jun 3 0
- There is only a small set of people who will grind away at leetcode. If you use the same hiring practices, how can you hire diverse people?
Not many of the people I know will sign up for months of leetcoding on ends just to pass onsites. They have better things to do w their time.
If you’re using Leetcode to hire, don’t complain that you cannot hire. Thousands of startups out there don’t hire leetcoders and they’re doing just fine.
Also, junior engineers tend to be better Leetcoders than senior ones because they’ve had 4 years of practice, whereas senior engineers did it 10 years ago
- New 😲whosthereOther people have different goals than you so don’t question others priorities. Some don’t have the goal to leetcode because they don’t perceive it as useful. They would rather take time to do practical engineering work. They simply don’t care about leetcode because they want to learn things they want to learn.Mar 16 0
- No one has goal to do leetcode. It is just a small hop you are asked to jump. You don't have to jump through it either. Tech companies sometimes skip / downweight leetcode if you are established / talented enough in your field. The question is whether you are good enough to warrant that from the get go. If you aren't and still refuse to do what us mortal engineers do, then the leetcode does exactly what it is supposed to do, either filter out people who won't function well in a tech team environment.Mar 16 1
- Splunk KE94107Many of us senior-level SWEs came into the industry without a CS degree, back when landing a job required no whiteboarding of algos. A friend of mine was surprised to hear that I don’t have a CS diploma: he says passing interviews is easy for him because he just needs a couple of weeks of self-study to refresh his recollection of CS coursework from over a decade ago.
Ironically, he’s a CS graduate at a hardware company. My own non-CS degree? EE. It’s become impossible for me to pass the hiring bar elsewhere, just in the few years I’ve been at my current job.Mar 17 0
- Amazon _binch@domin8
According to me, you fail at basic reading comprehension and inductive reasoning.
However, I'm feeling charitable so here is a longer explanation broken down into small and easily digestible words:
* Leetcode "proves" competence for a very narrow set of skills
* Being good at leetcode is not an indicator of being a good software dev
* Job seekers know how companies interview
* Companies optimizing for leetcode proficiency will result in job seekers optimizing for being good at leetcode
* Companies will hire a bunch of leetcoders who can't design their way out of a wet paper bag
Leetcode is like standardized testing. When the only measure of competency is the test, teachers will "teach the test" and students will prioritize passing the test above all else.
This is how we end up with "intelligent" students whose only skill is passing tests by ingesting and regurgitating information by rote. In other words: developmentally stunted automatons incapable of innovation or novel problem-solving.
Does this describe you? 🤔Mar 18 2
- Uber domin8@_binch according to me, you must be working at the warehouse as you failed to pass the actual interview 😂😂😂.
You sound like sour grapes. 🍇🍇🍇
Those, who actually passed the hiring bar, know that whiteboard interviews are just one type of interviews people go through.
I hope these diapers don't feel tight for you.Mar 18 0
- Uber C H O N KI’ve heard internal grumbling around Leetcode questions with some managers opting for “easier” coding questions and focusing on discussing good coding practices (less rote memorization, more discussion). Also, more focus on design and behavioral questions. Some still hammer Leetcode though :/
- There’s actually a very famous guy Nicolas Zakas who’s considered to be a Frontend guru. He interviewed at Google and got rejected bc he doesn’t know algorithms. If you apply one type of filter to hiring you cannot expect all good engineers to pass.
The way around this is have multiple ways to bring people in, not to weed potential good people out.
- New / Eng inf0secGuymore@Reigen https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer it's a good place to start but the key is practice, in my case I started freelancing at 18, creating simple php monolithic applications, 10 years later I learned a thing or two about designing systems 😊, more like I remember all the mistakes I made in the past, and also have experience with most popular frameworks. You can start by trying to create a simple blog application from scratch using different technologies (php, python, r&r,.net, nodejs, etc) so you will learn their limitations
- Thanks a lot man! I've been through the primer and the course but I've found it's only good for kind of knowing the ecosystem/jargon for things.
I.e. I don't think it really helps you build the intuition for building real life systems.
Your advice is really really helpful.
- Pinterest bdiaxbebsleetcode is like SAT or GRE or even school GPA
it doesn’t mean shit except that someone can tell you “hey, if you wanna get in, study for this shit”
it cuts out people who are unwilling and / or incapable of straightforward studying related to CS
“but like coding bootcamps prove that a cs degree is optional” - yeah, but fuck off, i’ll take the top 10% of cs degree earners over the top 1% of coding bootcampers any day of the week, it’s a more reliable, consistent, well established way to filter people out
is it stupid? sure. so is school. so is society.
leetcode is one of the few straightforward, guaranteed ways to get into the top 1% of the world economically with just a few months of studying. nothing comes even remotely close in terms of opportunities
In a place where I interned ($15/h), the intern before me was tasked with wiring a Perl script that created a time lapse of graphs using the provided data and graph API. His script worked perfectly well, so his team put it in automation and forgot about it. Few months after the intern left they had to change a couple of parameters on the graph. What they discovered was that the intern must have been a fan of Perl Golfing which is when you reduce Perl script to the smallest possible size by using every hack imaginable. Needless to say, there were no comments and the entire script was a single line of unintelligible code deviously hacked together with such dedication and precision that it sent chills down your spine the moment you realized this wasn’t a damaged file but working code. The team could not figure anything out, so they had to write a new script from scratch.Mar 11 6
- One solution is if both interviewer and interviewee don't know the question before interview. When interview begins, a random question pops up on screen and both interviewer and interviewee discuss the solution with interviewee driving most of the talk.
That way, interviewer can evaluate the candidate based on his/her own skill level. Like if they are struggling to find a solution, its fair that candidate is having hard time as well.
That's how real world problem solving is in everyday work. You get a problem, you discuss it out with the team.
- Here's why it's flawed: the interviewees are the ones who are supposed to be in interview mode, not the interviewers. You can't expect someone (who has other responsibilities) who's running interviews at a variable cadence to bring the same heat to an interview consistently as the guy who's been locked up in his room for the past 6 weeks grinding for this moment and is more than likely on amphetamines.Mar 12 0
- @shutterstock There should be no interview mode. Both interviewer and interviewee have other responsibilities. What makes you think every one has time to lock themselves up and prepare for interviews for months ? Some people have work, family and life.
Also, aren't interviewers being paid for that hour ? Why would they not bring same heat to an interview if those problem solving skills is their daily job ?Mar 13 0
- This is one of those ideas that sounds brilliant but will fail miserably during execution.
You identified the problem. The interviewers want a systematic and relatively quick process to evaluate the candidates. Some of them are lazy (interviewing people is very low in the "help my promotion" department). So you can leetcode harder and fool the lazy interviewers with arcane optimal solution. But at least, their lazy evaluation is consistent from candidates to candidates. Your proposal of making interviewers work harder will add too much variation to the process. Whether the interviewer is more technically capable than the interviewee is irrelevant. You don't want a process where you have to send in your superstar engineers everytime to do the interview.
A good hiring manager knows how to interpret the interviewer's feedback and recalibrate the decision. They won't reject you because you don't know some arcane leetcode solutions if you can show a good thought process and coding practice.Mar 16 0
- Microsoft microshitReal mini project that can be completed within an 8 hours (a day of work), will tell you alot about the code quality, design, cs fundamentals, innovation and many many other things that leetcode will never be able to scratch.
Flagged by the community.
- Microsoft / PR qwerkymoreI hear there’s a new tool people are using to evaluate candidates: Super Mario typing
- Microsoft KBlA86Many leetcode problems are tricky, if you didnt meet it before interview, you're doomed
- “here is an application of a well known and well studied algorithms 101 question”
“nooooo it’s a trick! my EE phd and 100 fpga publications never taught me how to apply basic algorithms fundamentals, therefore i deserve special treatment!”
there are like 5 core concepts you need to grok to figure out the “trick” in just about any leetcode questionMar 20 0
- Google Uvor31All I can say Leetcode must have some pro PR people that get everyone convinced they're the only way to get a job. I've been an interviewee and interviewer at a few of the fangs, and Leetcode really doesn't come into play.
- Microsoft zombielifif you are ioi medallist or acm icpc finalist, yes. Otherwise, I doubt anyone can solve leetcode hard without preparation. But this only means you prepared in a different way.
More realistic stories I heard were people who got strong recommendations or hot skills can pass the interview without preparation because they were asked easier questions. This usually requires a PHD from prestige schools.
- Plenty doesn't mean the majority, it just means enough to fill most of the openings at top tier company. Recruiting at Uber is much harder than recruiting at Google, you want to see them? Go to Google...
Also there are 150 medals in IOI each year, add to them all those who didn't qualify from China because they can only have 4 participants, and you have thousand each year that will fall in your bucket. That's not much for the industry but that's plenty enough for the tier 1 companies.
- Qualcomm / Eng TintontunmoreLeetcode exists so people with kids can't change jobs. 🤷🏻♂️
- Salesforce SadforceThe biggest thing in this industry is capacity and ability to learn. I had an interview 10 years ago, which was amazing:
1st interview of the day: Manager told me about the product and its features and how some of then worked.
Discussion Interviews about code, systems, behavior followed after that.
Last interview: How do you think feature x from interview #1 work?
Basically, they where testing my capacity to learn the whole time. Most of the interviewers didn't expect right or wrong answers; it was mostly a test of a) do I listen? b) am I eager to learn? c) am I capable of thinking through problem?
- Lawrence Livermore National Lab / Eng Ron SwanmoreWhat an enlightened and thoroughly thought out hiring processes. Passing arbitrary barrier to entry like leetcode is fine for hiring cogs in a machine for contributing to the vision of those in positions to affect change. Going deeper and finding / evaluating those who can answer questions and provide perspective outside of the status quo actually move that barrier for the cogs.
- The Amazon way makes sense to me: much easier to get in (easy-medium coding questions, plus a lot of behavioral questions), and those who cannot get shit done are pipped out.
- Booking.com brbrbAsking from Leetcode is way better than asking how many tennis balls fill an airplane.
- Simple. If I see you completely lost and struggling then you failed the question. If you show that you make an effort and are thinking of a way to solve this problem that makes sense, then you passes it.
Again, the answer doesn’t matter. It’s just about seeing your problem solving skills and creativity.Mar 21 0
- Walmart.com / Eng reviewSure. There are better ways, better questions... but for that the interviewers also need to be of higher intellect.
Anyone can ask some LC hard and give some hints on the way. What is difficult is to ask a seemingly easy problem and make it difficult by introducing real world constraints. That takes years of experience.
- Parsons Corporation bAGA64When I do interviews of SW engineers for my company, I generally ask a relatively simple coding question toward the start of the interview. I accept pseudo code examples but ask them to explain their thinking as they solve the problem. Then once they have solved it we move on to other things for a bit and let the code sit there. Later in the interview I circle back to their solution and ask questions about how they would test the code, including what they would test for and what tools/methods they would use to test it. Then I let it sit again for a little while, and then toward the end of the interview I ask them to look at their code from an outsider's point of view and tell me what it's strengths and weaknesses in implementation are, and how they would modify it to improve it.
I find this is a programming language neutral way to test their coding thought processes, their problem solving skills, their knowledge of test tooling and methods, and their ability to depersonalize and analyze the code to find ways to improve it. All of which are critical skills (IMO) for an effective SW engineer to have mastery of.
- IBM qdeyeMy manager focuses on coding philosophy. He asks about certain coding "basics" and slowly builds from there. If the programmer can hold a conversation and demonstrate good coding philosophy, that puts them on the short list.
Its about knowing what you're code is doing, not how to code.
- Yes there is. https://blog.usejournal.com/rethinking-how-we-interview-in-microsofts-developer-division-8f404cfd075a