Career

Is there better way to hire than leetcode?

Oscar 🐨koala
Mar 5

In particular I don’t see anything else to replace leetcode from big companies’ PoV. They are simply too big to have people submit homework lol. Thoughts?

comments

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  • Apple JuicyBae
    None. Leetcode is the surefire way to figure out if a senior engineer absolutely know their stuff.
    Mar 519
    • Amazon SysRq
      Boomer detected
      Mar 11
    • Google / Eng
      SWE-π

      GoogleEng

      PRE
      Amazon
      SWE-πmore
      Yeet
      Mar 11
    • Apple 867530nine
      😂
      Mar 11
    • Sony kHtg85
      ROFL 😂😂😂
      Mar 11
    • Google r_r
      Lol.
      System Design Interviews exist to determine if someone really is senior.
      Mar 11
    • Adobe VFne54
      You guys all being trolled by juicy bar there.
      Mar 11
    • Uber zuckerr
      But the superstar junior engineers on your team won't respect you if you couldn't pass LC.
      Mar 13
    • Microsoft blinkd182
      Lol. I hope you’re trolling otherwise I really hope the attitude of software companies in regards to this changes.

      The stuff they ask in white board interviews vs the stuff I’ve done in the real world is very different.
      Mar 14
    • CACI MaknBombs
      @blinkd182 honestly if you're not spending at least 30 hours a week at work reversing strings, finding the second biggest string in an array of strings, and converting decimals to roman numerals what are you even doing with your life?
      Mar 14
    • ConsenSys / Engdackjorsey
      Time for my daily leet standup
      7d
  • There is only a small set of people who will grind away at leetcode. If you use the same hiring practices, how can you hire diverse people?

    Not many of the people I know will sign up for months of leetcoding on ends just to pass onsites. They have better things to do w their time.

    If you’re using Leetcode to hire, don’t complain that you cannot hire. Thousands of startups out there don’t hire leetcoders and they’re doing just fine.

    Also, junior engineers tend to be better Leetcoders than senior ones because they’ve had 4 years of practice, whereas senior engineers did it 10 years ago
    Mar 527
    • Amazon _binch_
      They'll regret hiring the Leetcode monkeys when they release their product late, failing spec, full of bugs, and saddled with an unmaintainable codebase.
      When the shit hits the fan, that's when they realize they need us more than we need them.
      Consulting work (cleaning up leetcoders' messes) pays quite well.
      Mar 13
    • Uber domin8
      @amazon, so, according to you, not doing leetcode guarantee that the code will be perfect?
      Mar 13
    • Well not many people are willing to leetcode. Many don’t have the time
      Mar 13
    • Uber ipoer
      I haven't been to a single place where people don't genuinely complain about their pay even when they are paid through the roof. And don't let the "there is a shortage of engineers" narrative fools you. It is actually "there is a shortage of good engineers who I can afford".
      7d
    • Uber ipoer
      If you can get a PhD from top 5 school and/or write decent open sourced projects, you should be able to leetcode with maybe 5 hours of practice. It is not rocket science. Are you telling me you don't have few spare hours?

      No one is looking for the top leetcoders, you just need to pass the coding bar, which is already very low. It is the stuff college students do in their intro to CS class for god sake. And if you are more senior, the design round matters more.
      7d
    • Other people have different goals than you so don’t question others priorities. Some don’t have the goal to leetcode because they don’t perceive it as useful. They would rather take time to do practical engineering work. They simply don’t care about leetcode because they want to learn things they want to learn.
      6d
    • Uber ipoer
      No one has goal to do leetcode. It is just a small hop you are asked to jump. You don't have to jump through it either. Tech companies sometimes skip / downweight leetcode if you are established / talented enough in your field. The question is whether you are good enough to warrant that from the get go. If you aren't and still refuse to do what us mortal engineers do, then the leetcode does exactly what it is supposed to do, either filter out people who won't function well in a tech team environment.
      6d
    • Splunk KE94107
      Many of us senior-level SWEs came into the industry without a CS degree, back when landing a job required no whiteboarding of algos. A friend of mine was surprised to hear that I don’t have a CS diploma: he says passing interviews is easy for him because he just needs a couple of weeks of self-study to refresh his recollection of CS coursework from over a decade ago.

      Ironically, he’s a CS graduate at a hardware company. My own non-CS degree? EE. It’s become impossible for me to pass the hiring bar elsewhere, just in the few years I’ve been at my current job.
      5d
    • Amazon _binch
      @domin8
      According to me, you fail at basic reading comprehension and inductive reasoning.
      However, I'm feeling charitable so here is a longer explanation broken down into small and easily digestible words:
      * Leetcode "proves" competence for a very narrow set of skills
      * Being good at leetcode is not an indicator of being a good software dev
      * Job seekers know how companies interview
      * Companies optimizing for leetcode proficiency will result in job seekers optimizing for being good at leetcode
      * Companies will hire a bunch of leetcoders who can't design their way out of a wet paper bag

      Leetcode is like standardized testing. When the only measure of competency is the test, teachers will "teach the test" and students will prioritize passing the test above all else.

      This is how we end up with "intelligent" students whose only skill is passing tests by ingesting and regurgitating information by rote. In other words: developmentally stunted automatons incapable of innovation or novel problem-solving.
      Does this describe you? 🤔
      4d
    • Uber domin8
      @_binch according to me, you must be working at the warehouse as you failed to pass the actual interview 😂😂😂.
      You sound like sour grapes. 🍇🍇🍇
      Those, who actually passed the hiring bar, know that whiteboard interviews are just one type of interviews people go through.
      I hope these diapers don't feel tight for you.
      4d
  • Uber C H O N K
    I’ve heard internal grumbling around Leetcode questions with some managers opting for “easier” coding questions and focusing on discussing good coding practices (less rote memorization, more discussion). Also, more focus on design and behavioral questions. Some still hammer Leetcode though :/
    Mar 55
    • New / EngpHXp44
      My Uber phone screen was a LC extra spicy. Brute force was sliding window matrix. Optimal was dynamic programming. I was like “come now!”
      Mar 5
    • Slack doesn’t ask algorithms in their hiring process.
      Mar 6
    • Apple / HRSnVL04
      Slack 1, Uber 0
      Mar 10
    • Microsoft
      tech.ladki

      Microsoft

      PRE
      Google
      tech.ladkimore
      Most good companies have a generalized interview process, and HM has little role to play, especially in the questions being asked.
      Mar 10
    • General Motors sMIL78
      I think with leetcode you get a candidate that prepared himself with a lot of hours doing problems.

      Anyway in my opinion Is better to hire but culture fit than skill.
      Mar 10
  • Pinterest bdiaxbebs
    leetcode is like SAT or GRE or even school GPA

    it doesn’t mean shit except that someone can tell you “hey, if you wanna get in, study for this shit”

    it cuts out people who are unwilling and / or incapable of straightforward studying related to CS

    “but like coding bootcamps prove that a cs degree is optional” - yeah, but fuck off, i’ll take the top 10% of cs degree earners over the top 1% of coding bootcampers any day of the week, it’s a more reliable, consistent, well established way to filter people out

    is it stupid? sure. so is school. so is society.

    leetcode is one of the few straightforward, guaranteed ways to get into the top 1% of the world economically with just a few months of studying. nothing comes even remotely close in terms of opportunities
    Mar 515
    • Google gorrilla86
      I'm not a software engineer (SA ladder), and I work for a "bet" (closest to a startup you'll get at Google). So yeah, you might be right from a SWE perspective, but even then if your org is a bet, you wear many hats, from what I've seen.
      Mar 10
    • Microsoft
      MP3

      Microsoft

      BIO
      Troll living under the I-5 overpass
      MP3more
      Spoke with someone high up who hired a guy with Masters in Chemistry who only played around a bit with C in college. First programming job. In 1 year he singlehandedly solved a particular problem 30 people have been working on for years. It brought the company $20mil in licensing fees in the first few years and put the company significantly ahead of competition at the time. This was pre-leetcode, about 8-10 years ago.

      @bdiazdebs’s system would reject such candidate outright as it biased towards particular types of people. It completely ignores creativity factor, which is extremely important as any type of engineering is creative work. Knowing how to work with trees and solve obscure problems may be good to have for writing actual code, but coming up with a create/new solution requires different set of skills.

      For what I understood, this guy had a habit of hiring those who weren’t experienced programmers coming in, only for them to become rockstars in a few years time under his mentorship. I’ve personally met some of them.
      Mar 10
    • Parsons Corporation bAGA64
      I also agree with MP3! My undergrad is in EE, my Masters in CS, but with a Project Management emphasis, not a coding emphasis. In my current job, over the last year and a half, I have studied and acquired 8 AWS certifications and am studying for my 9th. I have also studied for and acquired my CompTIA Security+ CE certification in that time frame. All while working full time as a coder in positions requiring expertise in multiple languages, using multiple technologies. What have I NOT done? A single LeetCode problem. Yet my company values my expertise as a SW, networking, and solutions architect engineer. I was recently part of a bidding war between my company and another company who wanted to hire me because of my proven expertise. I came out of it with a > 30% increase in TC. And neither company asked me a single LeetCode question during the process. And both companies are fairly large (>15k employees) and well established technology firms.

      So what's my point? Simply this: if you want a specific type of engineer - one who is very focused on just the coding - then using LeetCode questions can be a good tool. If you want a diverse set of individuals who are very good at their jobs, who learn quickly and think creatively, and who can successfully execute in several different roles, then you are selling yourself drastically short by relying on LeetCode as a primary discriminator.
      Mar 10
    • Airbnb / Engcaudex
      Bootcamper checking in
      Mar 10
    • Apple Cookenberg
      Leetcode approach is impersonal and easy to scale - that’s why big corps love it. Yes they will likely miss few creative candidates - so what? It won’t stop the machine shifting gears.
      Mar 10
    • Amazon / Engslosh
      I'm tired of explaining to sde1s why writing readable, maintainable code, beats bare-metal speed scripts for tasks that don't require it. Thanks, LeetCode.
      Mar 10
    • Microsoft
      MP3

      Microsoft

      BIO
      Troll living under the I-5 overpass
      MP3more
      @slosh:
      In a place where I interned ($15/h), the intern before me was tasked with wiring a Perl script that created a time lapse of graphs using the provided data and graph API. His script worked perfectly well, so his team put it in automation and forgot about it. Few months after the intern left they had to change a couple of parameters on the graph. What they discovered was that the intern must have been a fan of Perl Golfing which is when you reduce Perl script to the smallest possible size by using every hack imaginable. Needless to say, there were no comments and the entire script was a single line of unintelligible code deviously hacked together with such dedication and precision that it sent chills down your spine the moment you realized this wasn’t a damaged file but working code. The team could not figure anything out, so they had to write a new script from scratch.
      Mar 11
    • Nvidia gvshater
      ^^
      No wonder MSFT products are shitty then, there are no code reviews at MSFT!!
      Mar 11
    • Microsoft
      MP3

      Microsoft

      BIO
      Troll living under the I-5 overpass
      MP3more
      @gvshater: Did you recognize your own work? 😉
      Mar 11
    • Uber ipoer
      Gvshater makes the perfect point. Don't blame leetcode for your shitty practice.
      7d
  • There’s actually a very famous guy Nicolas Zakas who’s considered to be a Frontend guru. He interviewed at Google and got rejected bc he doesn’t know algorithms. If you apply one type of filter to hiring you cannot expect all good engineers to pass.

    The way around this is have multiple ways to bring people in, not to weed potential good people out.
    Mar 631
    • Glassdoor crrl
      I love how everyone is joining forces from different companies and backgrounds and are all in agreement that they would hire homebrew guy over pinterest guy.
      Pinterest - you can invert a binary tree, nice, now what have you really ever done that made a difference ? Nothing. Homebrew guy on the other end did.
      Mar 10
    • BlackRock xis
      Different people will struggle with different kind of problems. If the person doesn’t know trees (no formal CS background) it takes a lot of intuition and help to connect the dots from swapping ref to recursion and node play. This us why we get multiple interviewers -4 to 5.

      One of my colleagues used to ask just 1 question in SQL (quite complicated problem) and nothing else. His rationale was SQL is Turing Complete and declarative you should be able to use recursion in SQL etc ( i asked him why not ask dynamic programming in SQL :)
      Mar 10
    • PayPal #5Pr@x76
      This Pinterest guy's attitude sucks!
      Mar 10
    • American Express ...🔞....
      Pinterest sucks!!!
      Mar 10
    • New / Eng
      inf0secGuy

      NewEng

      PRE
      Oracle
      BIO
      Security guy working as a swe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      inf0secGuymore
      Last year I interviewed with like 6 companies, because I suck at algos naturally I failed with most of them, I got rejected by Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Uber 😢, I made it to the onsite of Amazon, Facebook, Uber and Onelogin (the only offer I got) and the general feedback was i suck at algos (what a surprise) but I aced the system design interviews (OL algos were like leetcode easy/medium), am I stupid for failing to solve the stupid dp coin problem? Maybe but at least I know how to escalate systems, test code and write microservices 🤣. I talked with a friend that currently works at Google as a SRE (site reliability engineer) about my interview processes and he told me something I'll never forget, he told me that when we has interviewing he too got asked algos question so he told the interviewer (not his exacts words) that he was an expert on SRE so he (the interviewer) should ask him about SRE problems and concepts and cut the leetcode bs, apparently the interviewer was on a good mood and accepted, don't get me wrong, my friend is truly a SRE expert so he got though hell but at the end he got an offer and being there for +5 years or something 😊
      Mar 10
    • Google / EngBSkU48
      People should read what Max replied on quora before debating here. His whole point is that computer science has little to do with app development. He was not inverting binary tree😂😂😂
      Mar 10
    • New / Other
      Reigen

      NewOther

      BIO
      4 years teaching cs looking for first real swe job.
      Reigenmore
      @inf0secguy how do you get good at system design as someone trying to get their firsr software gig
      Mar 10
    • New CAWz16
      @Reigen start by going through the "Grokking the system design interview" course online. Just Google it and you'll find it.
      Mar 10
    • New / Eng
      inf0secGuy

      NewEng

      PRE
      Oracle
      BIO
      Security guy working as a swe ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      inf0secGuymore
      @Reigen https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer it's a good place to start but the key is practice, in my case I started freelancing at 18, creating simple php monolithic applications, 10 years later I learned a thing or two about designing systems 😊, more like I remember all the mistakes I made in the past, and also have experience with most popular frameworks. You can start by trying to create a simple blog application from scratch using different technologies (php, python, r&r,.net, nodejs, etc) so you will learn their limitations
      Mar 10
    • New / Other
      Reigen

      NewOther

      BIO
      4 years teaching cs looking for first real swe job.
      Reigenmore
      Thanks a lot man! I've been through the primer and the course but I've found it's only good for kind of knowing the ecosystem/jargon for things.

      I.e. I don't think it really helps you build the intuition for building real life systems.

      Your advice is really really helpful.
      Thanks!
      Mar 11
  • DigitalOcean loveberlin
    One solution is if both interviewer and interviewee don't know the question before interview. When interview begins, a random question pops up on screen and both interviewer and interviewee discuss the solution with interviewee driving most of the talk.

    That way, interviewer can evaluate the candidate based on his/her own skill level. Like if they are struggling to find a solution, its fair that candidate is having hard time as well.

    That's how real world problem solving is in everyday work. You get a problem, you discuss it out with the team.
    Mar 613
    • PayPal ajfpw
      Excellent idea. Usually in interview the interviewer will just interviewees based on 1-5 question pre-prepared by them. And then they say “Solution is not optimal”.
      Mar 10
    • Nvidia
      420_Blaze

      Nvidia

      BIO
      BlazeMaster 10K
      420_Blazemore
      Seriously, this is a great idea
      Mar 10
    • Amazon / Engkwq7812
      That's an interesting idea.
      Mar 10
    • Expedia anony🐭
      Somebody from FANG hire this person. First smart solution to a problem.
      Mar 10
    • Uber / Engfomo
      Two things. 1. Current leetcode interviews is unfair to judge the candidate because the interviewer expects optimal solutions from candidate when they are prepared. If the candidate asks a question they know and the interviewer doesn’t back, almost certainly the interviewer can’t find the optimal solution on the spot either. 2. The interviewer has the right of interpretation. Even if the solution from the candidate is a working solution or even a brilliant idea, if the interviewer didn’t understand or thought the interviewee didn’t follow their leads, he/she will still give bad feedback. A lot of times feedback is subjective and capped by the competence and biases of that single interviewer.

      This proposed approach sort of addresses the first problem but not the second. Ultimately it’s still about the right of interpretation. If the interview isn’t 1:1, it could be much better. Even it’s just 1:2 it’s much better than 1:1.
      Mar 11
    • Shutterstock kudabobb
      Here's why it's flawed: the interviewees are the ones who are supposed to be in interview mode, not the interviewers. You can't expect someone (who has other responsibilities) who's running interviews at a variable cadence to bring the same heat to an interview consistently as the guy who's been locked up in his room for the past 6 weeks grinding for this moment and is more than likely on amphetamines.
      Mar 12
    • DigitalOcean loveberlin
      @shutterstock There should be no interview mode. Both interviewer and interviewee have other responsibilities. What makes you think every one has time to lock themselves up and prepare for interviews for months ? Some people have work, family and life.

      Also, aren't interviewers being paid for that hour ? Why would they not bring same heat to an interview if those problem solving skills is their daily job ?
      Mar 13
    • Shutterstock kudabobb
      @digitalocean Trust me, the guy who's actively looking for a job will be more prepared than the guy who already has a good job (the interviewer).

      Since when were leetcode problems relevant to the day-to-day job? I thought that was the whole point of this thread.
      Mar 13
    • DigitalOcean loveberlin
      @shutterstock I agree person looking for opportunities will be more prepared. LC is just short cut for interviewer to skip preparation on their part.
      Mar 14
    • Uber ipoer
      This is one of those ideas that sounds brilliant but will fail miserably during execution.

      You identified the problem. The interviewers want a systematic and relatively quick process to evaluate the candidates. Some of them are lazy (interviewing people is very low in the "help my promotion" department). So you can leetcode harder and fool the lazy interviewers with arcane optimal solution. But at least, their lazy evaluation is consistent from candidates to candidates. Your proposal of making interviewers work harder will add too much variation to the process. Whether the interviewer is more technically capable than the interviewee is irrelevant. You don't want a process where you have to send in your superstar engineers everytime to do the interview.

      A good hiring manager knows how to interpret the interviewer's feedback and recalibrate the decision. They won't reject you because you don't know some arcane leetcode solutions if you can show a good thought process and coding practice.
      6d
  • Microsoft microshit
    Real mini project that can be completed within an 8 hours (a day of work), will tell you alot about the code quality, design, cs fundamentals, innovation and many many other things that leetcode will never be able to scratch.
    Mar 512
    • Expedia bucketOf$s
      Cheating and plagiarism can be easily weeded our if you ask people to explain their design, trade offs, other options they considered, etc etc. we did a set of trial rounds and it was painfully obvious who the cheaters were. As a side note, turns out a lot of people have no clue how to test their code and build with testability in mind
      Mar 6
    • Intel UGeJ58
      I had one interview segment that was a 2-day weekend turnaround into a Monday lunch phone interview. The entire hour was dissecting the design and I thought it was a great way to judge a candidate before an on-site
      Mar 6
    • New / Mgmt
      xyz69

      NewMgmt

      BIO
      Senior management in software development
      xyz69more
      For those wondering about "cheating" and "plagiarism"; it doesn't matter if you have a project that covers everything you want and have them do it at your offices. Every developer copies code / uses Google / stackoverflow..etc. it doesn't matter as long as the goal is met, code is clean, commented, program works and have a lead developer judge architecture. You will learn 10 times more than leetcode ever could.
      Mar 11
    • Uber / R&Djidao
      The only company that asked me to do that I didn't even bother going to their onsite, the project was so poorly specified, and it was impossible for me to ask question. If that's how they hire people I really didn't want to work there.
      Also I don't want to waste hours of my weekend for that bs, please keep asking leetcode question, it's so much easier
      Mar 11
    • Jet.com helloyou
      Agreed — it’s really hard to find the time to work on those interview projects, especially when you’re trying to balance your full-time job with 5 companies asking you to work on a project. I’d much rather study at my own pace a few months in advance and then take 5 1-hour interviews.
      Mar 11
    • Uber / R&Djidao
      Yeah the problem with project is if you only have a few hours available for it, you're competing against someone using a couple of days...
      Mar 11
    • Expedia bucketOf$s
      Uber, yeah, but with leets you’re competing against someone with no responsibilities and possibly no life outside of work. Kind of hard to do when you have kids or don’t lead a shut in life.
      Mar 11
    • Uber / R&Djidao
      I'm not too worried about that, I'll do just fine at leetcode, I got good basis at the University
      Mar 11
    • Expedia bucketOf$s
      . My last uni class was a decade ago 😂. Though I belong to the no kids , no responsibilities camp.
      Mar 11
    • Uber / R&Djidao
      Yeah was close to a decade ago for me too, but I don't forget about it, I'm using from time to time at work
      Mar 11
  • Flagged by the community.

    • Amazon Xode
      Or a manager to hire all his friends working at Mc Donalds
      Mar 10
    • Amazon Beff-Jezos
      Wow, this is so damn true...
      Mar 10
  • Microsoft / PR
    qwerky

    MicrosoftPR

    PRE
    Kroger, UPS, NASA, Pray.com, Christ Church Ann Arbor
    qwerkymore
    I hear there’s a new tool people are using to evaluate candidates: Super Mario typing
    Mar 53
    • LinkedIn tendies
      They really need to start doing mortal Kombat. That would change the game
      Mar 5
    • Yahoo / Engverve
      Literally
      Mar 10
    • Tableau x-dev
      I mean, that's what I used back in the day to start out. That and my trusty TruBasic 3.5" floppy.
      Mar 11
  • Microsoft KBlA86
    Many leetcode problems are tricky, if you didnt meet it before interview, you're doomed
    Mar 62
    • Vistaprint GGLQ22
      Almost all
      Mar 10
    • Pinterest PVQy30
      “here is an application of a well known and well studied algorithms 101 question”

      “nooooo it’s a trick! my EE phd and 100 fpga publications never taught me how to apply basic algorithms fundamentals, therefore i deserve special treatment!”

      there are like 5 core concepts you need to grok to figure out the “trick” in just about any leetcode question
      2d
  • Google Uvor31
    All I can say Leetcode must have some pro PR people that get everyone convinced they're the only way to get a job. I've been an interviewee and interviewer at a few of the fangs, and Leetcode really doesn't come into play.
    Mar 1016
    • Uber C H O N K
      If G doesn’t ask Leetcode questions, then they are asking questions that are such slight alternatives to them that there is no practical difference. In my experience G doesn’t outright ask the question, but they give you a vague problem statement that you have to work out what the problem is first. Then it’s basically Leetcode from there on.
      Mar 10
    • Airbnb / Engcaudex
      3/5 of my Google questions were from Leetcode
      Mar 10
    • Cruise Automation ElopedMusk
      @domin8 are you actually in hc? People used to ask “banned” questions all the time and nobody gave a rats ass. I mean occasionally hc would reach out but rarely
      Mar 11
    • Uber / R&Djidao
      Not every body needs 3 months of preparation to solve leetcode problem. There are plenty of people that can solve most leetcode hard on the spot within 20min, that's definitely not everybody, but that's the kind of people some companies are looking for. Just accept we're not among the brightest and stop complaining
      Mar 11
    • Uber domin8
      @Jidao, plenty, really? Where? Why not just hire only these people? I guess someone actually needs to do the real job to finance all that "research" you are doing...
      Mar 11
    • Microsoft zombielif
      if you are ioi medallist or acm icpc finalist, yes. Otherwise, I doubt anyone can solve leetcode hard without preparation. But this only means you prepared in a different way.

      More realistic stories I heard were people who got strong recommendations or hot skills can pass the interview without preparation because they were asked easier questions. This usually requires a PHD from prestige schools.
      Mar 11
    • Uber / R&Djidao
      Plenty doesn't mean the majority, it just means enough to fill most of the openings at top tier company. Recruiting at Uber is much harder than recruiting at Google, you want to see them? Go to Google...

      Also there are 150 medals in IOI each year, add to them all those who didn't qualify from China because they can only have 4 participants, and you have thousand each year that will fall in your bucket. That's not much for the industry but that's plenty enough for the tier 1 companies.
      Mar 11
    • Cruise Automation ElopedMusk
      I recruited for google for years and saw an acm medalist once (new grad). He bombed non coding portion and was passed on
      Mar 11
    • Cruise Automation ElopedMusk
      Actually now that i think of it his coding sucked too - very sloppy but he put it together super fast (shocker here)
      Mar 11
    • Shutterstock kudabobb
      Lol @domin8 you funny bro 😂
      Mar 12
  • Qualcomm / Eng
    Tintontun

    QualcommEng

    PRE
    Qualcomm
    BIO
    Embedded software engineer
    Tintontunmore
    Leetcode exists so people with kids can't change jobs. 🤷🏻‍♂️
    Mar 101
  • Salesforce Sadforce
    The biggest thing in this industry is capacity and ability to learn. I had an interview 10 years ago, which was amazing:

    1st interview of the day: Manager told me about the product and its features and how some of then worked.

    Discussion Interviews about code, systems, behavior followed after that.

    Last interview: How do you think feature x from interview #1 work?

    Basically, they where testing my capacity to learn the whole time. Most of the interviewers didn't expect right or wrong answers; it was mostly a test of a) do I listen? b) am I eager to learn? c) am I capable of thinking through problem?
    Mar 102
    • Lawrence Livermore National Lab / Eng
      Ron Swan

      Lawrence Livermore National LabEng

      PRE
      Agilent Technologies, Bank of America
      Ron Swanmore
      What an enlightened and thoroughly thought out hiring processes. Passing arbitrary barrier to entry like leetcode is fine for hiring cogs in a machine for contributing to the vision of those in positions to affect change. Going deeper and finding / evaluating those who can answer questions and provide perspective outside of the status quo actually move that barrier for the cogs.
      Mar 10
    • Oscar 🐨koala
      OP
      Shut up and take my resume!
      Mar 10
  • Amazon Beff-Jezos
    The Amazon way makes sense to me: much easier to get in (easy-medium coding questions, plus a lot of behavioral questions), and those who cannot get shit done are pipped out.
    Mar 102
    • Amazon / Engkwq7812
      Hate to say it, but I agree.
      Mar 10
    • Amazon toreador
      Yeh. And those who are piped out Interview the next bunch of idiots. Circle of life.
      Mar 11
  • Booking.com brbrb
    Asking from Leetcode is way better than asking how many tennis balls fill an airplane.
    Mar 104
    • Microsoft not-a-dev
      I am a fan of questions such as “how many cellphones do you think are sold in Seattle each year?” These kind of questions probe for critical thinking - the answer is totally irrelevant (I don’t even know it myself), but I want to see your reasoning.
      Mar 10
    • Pinterest PVQy30
      ^ can you define how to objectively judge someone’s performance on this? how can you do better than “my gut tells me this person is smart enough”?
      2d
    • Microsoft not-a-dev
      Simple. If I see you completely lost and struggling then you failed the question. If you show that you make an effort and are thinking of a way to solve this problem that makes sense, then you passes it.
      Again, the answer doesn’t matter. It’s just about seeing your problem solving skills and creativity.
      Yesterday
    • Microsoft not-a-dev
      In general, however, nothing in job interviews is objective :) candidates are ALWAYS hired or rejected based on gut feelings. That’s why you interview with multiple people.
      Yesterday
  • Walmart.com / Engreview
    Sure. There are better ways, better questions... but for that the interviewers also need to be of higher intellect.

    Anyone can ask some LC hard and give some hints on the way. What is difficult is to ask a seemingly easy problem and make it difficult by introducing real world constraints. That takes years of experience.
    Mar 100
  • Parsons Corporation bAGA64
    When I do interviews of SW engineers for my company, I generally ask a relatively simple coding question toward the start of the interview. I accept pseudo code examples but ask them to explain their thinking as they solve the problem. Then once they have solved it we move on to other things for a bit and let the code sit there. Later in the interview I circle back to their solution and ask questions about how they would test the code, including what they would test for and what tools/methods they would use to test it. Then I let it sit again for a little while, and then toward the end of the interview I ask them to look at their code from an outsider's point of view and tell me what it's strengths and weaknesses in implementation are, and how they would modify it to improve it.

    I find this is a programming language neutral way to test their coding thought processes, their problem solving skills, their knowledge of test tooling and methods, and their ability to depersonalize and analyze the code to find ways to improve it. All of which are critical skills (IMO) for an effective SW engineer to have mastery of.
    Mar 100
  • CallRail CBAiejRX
    Have someone who knows what they’re doing have a 45 minute conversation with them. That’s all you need.
    Mar 100
  • IBM qdeye
    My manager focuses on coding philosophy. He asks about certain coding "basics" and slowly builds from there. If the programmer can hold a conversation and demonstrate good coding philosophy, that puts them on the short list.
    Its about knowing what you're code is doing, not how to code.
    Mar 100
  • Amazon / EngBeefJesus
    I get those kinds of questions for newish engineers. Either less years in the industry, or coming from an unfamiliar territory (country or company).

    I’m not great at leetcode because I have a wife and kids, and I’m too busy with that and work to study. I’m confident I could be solid at them, but I’d have to make sacrifices for that time.

    With that said, I’ve been at several solid companies and excelled everywhere because of my work ethic and ability to debug, fix issues quickly, and eliminate operational burden. Nobody ever asked me to implement a sudoku solver, or figure out the islands in a matrix. Could I come up with a good solution given time, probably. Have I memorized the proper algorithm for solving this in 45 mins, nope.

    Needless to say, I’ve made a solid career this far without quiz problems. I’m sure the companies that need me to do those things probably aren’t the best fit for me. I value team culture and comrades.

    Take away what you will from this. I say, study for what you want, and don’t stress about much more. The companies that don’t hire you because your solution to some bullshit question wasn’t optimal, you probably aren’t going to want to be there long term anyway. Stop comparing yourself to others, and find the job you want.
    Mar 113
    • Two Sigma zxcasdq
      I generally agree with you. But I’m trying to change jobs now and run into issues with companies wanting to down level me because I don’t have time to prepare for months for the interview process. My guess is I’ll end up down leveled somewhere, do great and work my way back up. But it sucks that people who prepare can use a job change as a way to move up while I have to earn a promo the old fashioned way (which many people view as impossible at the higher levels)
      Mar 11
    • Splunk KE94107
      ^^ This. And contrary to what some say, it’s not just FANG that uses whiteboarding. I’ve washed out of about 10 interviews in the past several years, mainly because I haven’t adequately prepared for the coding challenge (I write lots of code every year, but know nothing of CS algos). Not one of those interviews was at FANG, most were startups at Series A to Series D stage.
      Mar 11
    • LinkedIn CodeFaro
      Welcome to agism 3.0!!!
      Mar 14
  • Cisco Bindaas
    Honestly after devoting a few months to Leetcode, even just doing/studying one problem a day has dramatically improved my interview skills.
    Mar 102
    • Glassdoor crrl
      Lol this only makes the argument that leetcoding is a bad system stronger.
      A few months have passed, you now do better at interviews. Have you become a great software engineer in a few months ? Off course not, you were bad or great before. All that has changed is that you studied for the exam.
      Mar 10
    • Cisco Bindaas
      Am I a better software engineer? Maybe a little better, certainly have picked up a lot of tricks, syntactic sugar, and I have a much better understanding for certain algorithms that I haven't visited since college. But you're absolutely right, it is an exam. There are many engineers seeking these highly desirable position at amazing FAANG tier companies. You need to out study everyone or at least be within the margin that gets you an offer. Study leetcode to improve your changes at getting the job you want, it's a fact unfortunately.
      Mar 10
  • Samsung 5kt789
    Ask the candidate to give a presentation on their latest work followed by Q/A. Many scientist positions are hired this way in companies.
    Mar 102
    • Walmart.com / Engreview
      Most of the time, SWE can’t really dive deep into codebase that they worked on or the application they worked on... so presentation would be difficult
      Mar 10
    • Microsoft not-a-dev
      This might not be always possible. You can’t ask candidates to reveal corporate secrets or IP of their current employer.
      Mar 10
  • Facebook / EngPank
    Just recently PiPed one dude who was good in leetcode, but is very bad in coding of real task.
    Mar 103
    • BlackRock righteousr
      How was he bad ? Asking so I can learn to improve
      Mar 10
    • Facebook / EngPank
      interviewing system is broken, while we continue to ask leetcode questions which don't show real experience and understanding how to write software, we will continue to hire imposters who only spent couple months to learn only leetcode questions. We need to ask more industrial questions related to developed product.
      Mar 11
    • PayPal #5Pr@x76
      @Pank - were you able to discuss this with the committee that decides interview structure or with someone higher up in management? Wondering what they has to say
      Mar 11
  • New YgKF6k
    Leetcode tests problem solving ability, nothing more. Interviews and tests should be focused on seeing how the candidate would tackle actual on the job problems, as opposed to brain teasers.
    Mar 112
    • comScore tizz
      Not these days. Given an LC hard problem and expected to get an optimal solution in 30 mins means you testing me for memory. If I have never seen a similarproblem before I will most likely fail
      Mar 11
    • ViaSat vcdsa
      So true...giving a LC hard in a interview is not a brain teaser
      Mar 11
  • Microsoft 🌭 !🌭
    Leetcode let’s HMs fall into this trap of tunnel vision on a person. If you hire based on a persons performance on these cs101 homework questions then you’re basically saying your CS degree is optional or why bother if it only matters how you do in these questions. You’re also throwing out good systems designers and customer-focused people who spend more time building shit as opposed to shaving .3ms off a bit flipping algos that would almost never come up in real life.

    I made the switch from mechanical engineering and I’ve never been stressed out by ME interviewing because they ask more physics based or system design questions (e.g if you don’t have a scale how do you measure the weight of a person? Or explain the heat transfer through metal vs still air) if MEs interview the way CS people do I imagine it would be mostly doing random math problems using U substitution or trig identities or something like that.

    Why don’t we ask more systems focused questions or at the very least stop getting so hung up on the “one optimal solution I saw in the answers section for this problem I googled this morning because I’m totally unprepared”
    Mar 131
  • Qualcomm / Eng
    Tintontun

    QualcommEng

    PRE
    Qualcomm
    BIO
    Embedded software engineer
    Tintontunmore
    There's a better approach but it would require interviewers to train in learning human behavior, extrapolate technical strength by allowing a candidate to elaborate on past projects or discuss a real life like scenario based problem and have them attempt to solve it in a team like environment. I am able to discern good communication skills from bullshit as well.

    I have interviewed and hired people without asking them any questions from leetcode. I interviewed about 30-35 people recommended 3 for hiring. They all turned out to be excellent engineers, with strong critical thinking skills.

    I am not that great at leetcode but I create excellent solutions as per peer review. I have failed a FB on-site screen even though I solved the problem but I didn't have a 100% compiling code.
    Mar 111
    • CIBER rfKb40
      Onsite interviewed at Facebook. Your solution is great, but it doesn’t compile...
      It’s whiteboard.... I don’t expect whiteboard show me error because I forgot to add semicolon.. yeap a semicolon.
      7d
  • Amazon cnnm71
    It's awful except all the alternatives are worse
    Mar 100
  • Pinterest Dhdjdnnfux
    I hated doing algo questions at one point in my life. Argued the same way about how the process is biased. But I missed out on working for the best companies for a couple of years.

    At some point, I gave up complaining. Started preparing for interviews and landed jobs in almost all FAANG. After working in algos for a while, I also felt that I up-leveled as a programmer also.
    Mar 114
    • Yes if your goal is to work for a FAANG then you have to learn to Leetcode. Because that’s the process.

      But a lot of people don’t have that goal in mind. You can do just fine joining a startup. Or find a group at a FAANG who’s desperate for your skillset that they are ok with not asking algorithms during interviews. 😉
      Mar 11
    • Pinterest Dhdjdnnfux
      Even if you don’t want to work at a FAANG, getting good at algos and DS would make you a better programmer. Leetcode is not even around when I was exploring this.
      Mar 11
    • Not every engineering job requires algos. Try building a UI animation library or a server component. If someone’s job requires it I would think they would learn it by now.
      Mar 11
    • Splunk KE94107
      Correction: almost NO swe jobs require algos. That’s why we collectively gripe about this hiring process: work experience does nothing to prepare you for the hiring process at your future job.
      Mar 11
  • DocuSign mLUX83
    How about asking real world problems instead of a bunch of shit people can memorize if motivates enough? Just a thought. From personal experience I’ve interviewed people that could spit out leet code answers but then failed basic Vanilla JS questions. Food for thought
    Mar 103
    • Intuit / Eng
      j123x

      IntuitEng

      PRE
      Cisco, Verizon, Oracle
      j123xmore
      Sir, then they hire contractors to do the actual work. Let others survive too. My own company specializes in such cases.
      Mar 10
    • DocuSign mLUX83
      How that answers my suggestion must be a leet code question lol but ya god forbid you hire people that can do the job the job requires. But by all means keep using leet code questions as your barometer of what makes a great dev/eng...because it sure as hell does not.
      Mar 10
    • Microsoft zombielif
      open real world problems put too much pressure on interviewers. Web companies need to hire or reject 5 years experience people with 1 year experience interviewers. I can interview Einstein with leetcode problems, and he won’t pass if I want to fail him
      Mar 10
  • New / Eng
    BogoSort

    NewEng

    PRE
    Samsung Electronics
    BogoSortmore
    Pair programming sessions are not very uncommon nowadays.
    Mar 63
    • VMware @lpha.〽️
      And are not the best. If your partner sucks, you'll feel the brunt and vice versa
      Mar 10
    • Pivotal
      Bact30

      Pivotal

      BIO
      Tc 310k , previously startups, consulting
      Bact30more
      Depends if you’re hiring for empathy and ability to learn rather than leet skillz
      Mar 10
    • Amazon / Eng
      eisenhwr

      AmazonEng

      PRE
      Google
      eisenhwrmore
      I did pair programming interview. Found it interesting. My approach would be "leetcode easy" with a twist, and follow up questions adding constraints.
      Mar 10
  • Microsoft $$|$$
    Ebay in nyc gave me a small project to complete in 2 hrs when i went onsite
    Mar 102
    • Intuit / Eng
      j123x

      IntuitEng

      PRE
      Cisco, Verizon, Oracle
      j123xmore
      They do this with many candidates. Only issue is if they make an offer and you dont join, they get mad at you😥
      Mar 10
    • Microsoft $$|$$
      True, their TC was too bad, so did not join them. But impressed with their interview process.
      Mar 10
  • LinkedIn ThHT14
    Nope. Our industry does not need experience unless for a niche area of expertise and those are rare in bigcos. There is a reason you hear about Jeff Dean not as much about folks who work "for" him. For Mass hiring leetcode is the most streamlined process unfortunately.
    Mar 130
  • Amazon paopao
    Be a white. Be a citizen.
    Mar 110
  • Unity Ns7gg
    The most important part of hiring is figuring out if you will want to engage with the candidate every goddamn day.
    Mar 110
  • New tRem0lo
    I have never practiced coding on Leetcode, HackerRank, and other similar websites (though, of course, I know about them), and still received job offers for SWE from big companies (including Google and MS). They evaluate your problem solving skills and abilities to translate your ideas into code. So, in fact it's not directly connected to Leetcode.

    There is a common misconception about Leetcode (and interviewing) these days. It may help you "cheat" pretending that you have skills and expertise that interviewers are looking for. But in fact an experienced interviewer can recognize that.
    Mar 100
  • LinkedIn Weiner
    I see that interview is a filtering process and not a selection process, since employment is at will and you still anyway be fired if you are not clearly performing consistently. Given that it's a filtering process, you can afford to have a small fraction of false positive signals. If you can't even master a bunch of problem solving techniques, it's apt to be getting filtered out.
    Mar 100
  • Lockheed Martin / Other
    Schz3

    Lockheed MartinOther

    PRE
    industrialoptic
    Schz3more
    read this Check out this post! "Confessions of a FAANG hiring manager (HR Issues)"
    https://us.teamblind.com/s/6cJqGLeC
    Mar 102
    • Oscar 🐨koala
      OP
      600+ freakin upvotes lol
      Mar 10
    • Lockheed Martin / Other
      Schz3

      Lockheed MartinOther

      PRE
      industrialoptic
      Schz3more
      It is good
      Mar 12
  • Amazon / EngAwski
    Leetcode is like mustrubation, you might be no proud about it, but that’s what you do to progress in life🙂
    Mar 140
  • Microsoft trump_007
    There is a better way of course, to give a real world problem and see the thought process.
    Mar 140
  • eBay tonytony
    leetcode might not be a good way to pick top real talent. But it definitely to easy way to filter out jerks and uncompetitive candidates
    Mar 120
  • Yelp hQFr23
    Of course. Topcoder, codeforce, atcoder, and so on. Or if you have many years of experience, is a tech lead and have handled multiple big projects. Otherwise, I can't come up with a better way than lc.
    Mar 100
  • Intuit / Eng
    j123x

    IntuitEng

    PRE
    Cisco, Verizon, Oracle
    j123xmore
    Analytical problem solving. Not byhearted syntax.
    Mar 100
  • Salesforce TCBooster
    Blowing contest ?
    Mar 100
  • Google ł
    If anyone hates this approach, please propose a better one. Don’t just complain because you may not be good at it.
    Mar 102
    • Salesforce Sadforce
      dozens upon dozens of them are proposed...just read through this thread
      Mar 11
    • Pinterest BcBe85
      most of them are impractical or require smart and unbiased interviewers or dont scale well
      Mar 14
  • New / Engtankster11
    Use HackerRank
    Mar 100
  • LinkedIn / Productgassoup
    Throwing a coin is more predictive than leetcode
    Mar 100
  • Nortal
    p64350p2

    Nortal

    BIO
    k8s, gcp, python and go
    p64350p2more
    LeetCode serves the perfect solution for blame path. It won't go away for big 4 for the same reason certain enterprise software was choosen. Nothing can change management. It is a generation thing.
    Mar 100
  • nuTonomy / EngxQrf36
    Unfortunately some big companies still give a homework, like Uber do for example.
    Mar 100
  • Microsoft HUyN72
    Tinder account ?
    Mar 100

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