Just won my Amazon Pivot / PIP appeal - tips inside (part 2)

Amazon dxMJ31
Oct 22, 2018 42 Comments

Hi Blind,

I just wanted to thank you all for all the helpful information you shared about how to deal with Pivot. I would say it’s fair and all the questions the panel will ask will be genuine. If you strongly believe you should not be in pivot, appeal and you will win!

I’d also like to mention that if you have any questions about the appeal, feel free to dm me. I owe that much to this community!

I’d also like to mention that every single tip in the other post titled, “I won my appeal tips inside” are ACCURATE and big thanks to the writer of that post! I followed exactly what he suggested and won with 3/3 votes!

I cleared my name. You can too!

Best,
Another strong Amazonian subdued by a terrible management

Edit: the other post mentioned is titled “won my appeal tips inside” by greenkid. It is only available for Amazon employees though. Again, huge thanks to greenkid for writing that post!

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TOP 42 Comments
  • Apple Serialized
    Jeez, it sounds terrible over there. You poor souls.
    Oct 22, 2018 0
  • Amazon dxMJ31
    OP
    @eygs
    It’s exactly like a trial. But it’s great that you have an option like that. It’s fair and data driven. If you have the data to prove you’re great and your management is terrible, you will be moved to a different team.

    Not sure if any other companies allow a low performing employee to present his side of the story!
    Oct 22, 2018 3
    • Facebook eygs
      yeah that’s true enough
      Oct 22, 2018
    • Intel chjye
      Does the shitty manager ever get pivoted or punished ? If a neutral committee finds that the manager was wrong about you shouldn't (s)he suffer ?
      Oct 22, 2018
    • Facebook utGz11
      It sounds very much fair policy. At FB, there is no way to appeal a PIP- either take some arbitrary challenge that is designed by the same person who gives one on PIP. Success rate is so low, specially when manager is a dickhead and wants the guy just kick out the company without giving a chance in a second team.
      Oct 22, 2018
  • Undisclosed Bitfoolish
    What percent of pivots lead to an employee getting fired vs what percent does the employee prevail?
    Oct 22, 2018 4
    • Amazon dxMJ31
      OP
      I hear 30-40% of the appeals succeed. It’s alarming how many bad managers are in this company. That just means that 30-40% of the management is bad.
      Oct 22, 2018
    • Undisclosed Bitfoolish
      Cool, thanks for clarifying. Does the manager who put you on the pivot face any consequences? Theoretically they've made a rather serious error in doing so if you're found to be competent.
      Oct 22, 2018
    • Amazon zhUshxua
      I’ve never heard of a manager getting any sort of punishment for it.

      We also had an employee throw themselves off of a building because of manager shenanigans regarding a transfer. The manager was promoted.
      Oct 22, 2018
    • Amazon SDE2
      From what I hear from senior management, it is intentional that disciplinary actions against managers are not visible to ICs, and that it happens more often than one would think.
      Oct 23, 2018
  • Apple Vhff45
    Did you yell at the panel “I like beer!” 🤣😂
    Oct 22, 2018 0
  • Microsoft nutsy
    At Microsoft, a PIP is essentially a death knell. That’s when you start actively interviewing outside (preferably) and inside before being managed out. I’ve rarely seen anyone be successful in appealing (which means never)
    Oct 22, 2018 4
    • Undisclosed blindfrnd
      Can ppl actually switch teams while on PIP? Won't the HM of the team interviewing with know about the PIP and decline interview/offer?
      Oct 22, 2018
    • Microsoft nutsy
      Typically up to the new hiring manager to defend their decision. I’ve seen good managers see the truth and hire people and get them off the PIP. But that’s rare. Getting someone off a PIP makes HR look bad, and they don’t like to see being called out usually.
      Oct 22, 2018
    • Microsoft YzHQ20
      How ms pip looks like? How does it proceed? Doesn’t the manager fear being shoot if unfair?
      Oct 22, 2018
    • Microsoft nutsy
      Once you’re on a PIP, you have 3 months to look for options outside. The moment you get a PIP notification by your manager (will be in a meeting with HR >>precursor is for him/ her/ it to start telling you over email how bad your performance is, failed deliverables, unrealistic expectations, etc- setting you up with documentation to be managed out), there’s nothing much you can do.

      If it’s a genuine cause for concern and your management sees you improving with feedback and being put on notice, then 3 months is sufficient to make it through. I’ve survived a PIP my 1st year, but that was outside engineering.
      Once you’re in the Corp structure, it’s a brutal, dog eat dog world.
      Nov 16, 2018
  • Undisclosed LonelyBoy
    can you enlighten people not in Amazon, with what is PIP/Pivot/Appeal?
    Oct 22, 2018 3
  • Microsoft resu
    Could you include the link to the “other” post you mentioned? I can’t find it
    Oct 22, 2018 1
    • Amazon dxMJ31
      OP
      It’s titled “won my appeal tips inside” by greenkid. It’s posted under Amazon so it’s probably only visible to Amazon employees.
      Oct 23, 2018
  • Facebook eygs
    wtf? you have to win an appeal? sounds almost like a trial

    can you describe more what the process is like for non-amazonians
    Oct 22, 2018 0
  • Conduent sAhI83
    Are you going to transfer teams now?
    Oct 22, 2018 1
    • Amazon dxMJ31
      OP
      Yessir. Like a boss 😎
      Oct 22, 2018
  • Facebook eygs
    at FB almost half succeed and make it out of PIP iirc
    Oct 22, 2018 1
    • Facebook utGz11
      Can’t agree. From (in)direct data points I have seen only 20-25% success only.
      Oct 22, 2018
  • Amazon Organist
    This is the original post by greenkid:

    I won my appeal tips inside (Amazon)
    https://us.teamblind.com/s/M8A6XsVE
    Nov 16, 2018 0
  • Microsoft whadaheck
    Just checking. Are you still doing well?
    Jun 3 4
    • Amazon Barsoom
      Me, nope am not sure what well means anymore.
      Jun 3
    • Microsoft whadaheck
      Thanks for the reply. What do you mean? Are you having some health issue or performance review result was worse?
      Jun 3
    • Amazon Barsoom
      Am fine physically
      Just not with what’s going on in the job
      Jun 3
    • Microsoft whadaheck
      I see. Hope you turn it around again as you did it before or move to a right team/company.
      Jun 3
  • Amazon Profile00
    Hi @dxMJ31, I just messaged you to ask about employment Attorney
    Jun 8 3
    • Amazon Barsoom
      Get a bar raiser to help you
      Jun 8
    • Amazon Profile00
      I’m currently in the position either taking severance pay or appeal. I’m looking for a lawyer.
      Jun 8
    • Amazon Barsoom
      LinkedIn is the best option
      Jun 9
  • Zillow Group lwn
    Nice try HR
    Jun 8 1
    • Microsoft hdkendnhs
      Read OP’s reply at two comments above.
      Jun 9
  • I hear if you prevail in your pivot trial you’re instantly promoted to Jeff Bezos
    Oct 22, 2018 1
    • Undisclosed gh5sa$
      In the flesh or only in name?
      Oct 23, 2018
  • Amazon Barsoom
    Hi !! I could use some guidance and help.
    Jun 2 0