Senior L63 SWE position.
148/50/0... Yes I checked it's 50k RSU over 4 yrs!!! And yes it's L63, because recruiter did mention up to 30% bonus.
A bit disappointed as I have way higher offers from non-FAANG companies, but still very excited about the job though! Would be ok with coming down a little TC wise because the team is great.
I countered nicely with 155/220/50. Did I play my cards right? What's a happy compromise between their numbers and mine?
- You guys think I should go to hiring manager directly if I can't work it out with the recruiter? Im not sure what the recruiter agenda is. Like email hiring manager, your team is great, but recruiter says you can't match my offers really?, etc.
- I doubt this was approved by HM. There's no offer letter, just verbal offer and checking to see if their numbers was ok. Recruiter was definitely a fishing for numbers. Told me this was the default package, it took all my effort not to say WTF on the phone...
At this rate I rather go for my other options..
- Yes I do. I'm bringing it up again during next discussion. While I'm not too keen on Amazon, maybe I will be a bit more open minded in the coming days.
I still like the team though and honestly would come down a little for them, but the gap at least for the initial number is a bit far...
- As an ms hiring manager for 10+ years I generally didnt have an idea what the exact offers were until the person joined my team. There were some negotiating scenarios where I'd find out but that wasnt the common case. Person from Amazon is full of shit (not surprising).
The way it generally works is they have a range of preapproved offers for various situations at each level. If you wont accept their default offer (which is usually ass if you didnt have a competing offer from a big company), they'll counter with a higher one of those. If you dont accept a preapproved offer they will go to the hm and ask if they really want the person. If they do then theyll try to get a special offer approved by the vp (or designee manager). That last phase happened a handful of times that I can remember.Dec 32
- ^if the hm doesnt want you that badly then they will tell you the offer is top of the mark. Same with vp not approving, although in either case they may make a play for a slightly lesser offer. Bottom line if vp doesnt approve a special offer your stuck
with the highest standard offer they can give. I honestly dont remember that ever happening for me. There were a few times where I said dont bother we have another candidate that's fine too but i dont ever remember a vp not approving an offer. That included those where we up-leveled the person from what the original position was (which also needs VP approval, generally speaking).
Usually there are a range of standard offers. The initial is often a lowball if you dont have competing faang or faang experience there is usually more than one standard offer available above that.
- Last week, they low balled me too. Similary shitty offer for L62, 139/25/0, rejectected it outright. The offer was 30k lower than my current comp
- LinkedIn LolllllllAll above offers are standard, if you come from FAANG you might have leverage otherwise not so much. They might increase a little, but don’t expect much change. If you want higher salary interview with FB or Goog.
- Microsoft @atMsft gives out 150k over 4 years to fresh college hires at level 59. After you get two year experience they don't offer much in hire stock unless you have a competing offer. The refresh at level 63 is ~17k each year spread out over 5.
- SpaceX uevh5Insultingly low balled. Same thing happened to me in the past. I told them it won't work and they upped it reasonably. Then I told them I just got a much better competing offer and they were forced to match it after giving me a higher level and going through VP approval.
Stay your ground!
- Your ask is within the range of what l63s normally get. They will probably come back with something in the middle though. As a data point I've seen several l63 offers recently that were around 170/320/50. Competing faang etc offers are *very*helpful. If you like the team and and feel that you would have a good rapport with the manager, remember that is worth a lot as well.
- Microsoft will always try to get you for as low as they think.they can. Its annoying but enough people say yes to lowballs that it's worth doing (I guess). That said, they will absolutely take your current compensation into account. Whether it will be a bit higher or lower than your current depends on a lot of factors (which faang, competitve factor, how various offer buckets match up etc.).
- There can be really wide gaps on initial offers. There can even be pretty big ranges internally based on performance. As an example an l63 could have a base of 145, get 15% bonus and target stock (17k). Or they could get a 30% bonus, max stock (43k) with 180 salary (relatively rare to get top awards and have top salary of course). That's a range of 184k to 276k.
- Amazon / Engkwq7812I had an L63 offer from Microsoft in August: 160k base/200k RSU.
So, your counter is solid, but I don't know how much leverage you'll have. I had competing offers from FB and Snap (that they didn't know about) plus my existing job at Amazon (L6 with a post-four-year-cliff TC just short of 300k). To be honest, while my offer seems to be fairly decent (by their standards) for L63, I don't think they were that interested in me anyhow--I was interviewed as a run-of-the-mill generalist and the numbers were a joke (~50-70k short of my existing job, and ~100-140k short of the other offers), so I declined it almost immediately and didn't bother even thinking about a counter. I don't think they really cared, either.
- Microsoft ShhebdjMicrosoft has unlimited supply of good and experienced engineers from India office. Hiring managers get many more applications than US applicants and they seem content with the engineers moving from there. Most of managers are from India as well so there is no cultural barrier either. That means they can low ball you and don’t care if you reject it since there are many more qualified applicants waiting in the queue. Nowadays it is hard to find new experienced hires coming from anywhere else. New grad is a different story though.