Compensation

MSFT L63 so low?

New ip00
Dec 3

Senior L63 SWE position.

148/50/0... Yes I checked it's 50k RSU over 4 yrs!!! And yes it's L63, because recruiter did mention up to 30% bonus.

A bit disappointed as I have way higher offers from non-FAANG companies, but still very excited about the job though! Would be ok with coming down a little TC wise because the team is great.

I countered nicely with 155/220/50. Did I play my cards right? What's a happy compromise between their numbers and mine?

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  • Amazon aSoL84
    You asked for 220k when they offered you 50k? Wtf is wrong with you lol
    Dec 34
    • New ip00
      OP
      Cause that's market rate...
      Dec 3
    • Microsoft orb bu
      Wtf is wrong with you. Fresh grad in my team gets paid more than this.
      Dec 3
    • New ip00
      OP
      I mentioned that to recruiter also. Fresh graduate gets $120k RSU, $50k signon...
      Dec 3
    • Amazon aSoL84
      That's r e t a r d e d why are you even countering if they disrespected you like that. You are a prob a 59. Just accept the fact and dont ask for 200k rsus
      Dec 3
  • New ip00
    OP
    You guys think I should go to hiring manager directly if I can't work it out with the recruiter? Im not sure what the recruiter agenda is. Like email hiring manager, your team is great, but recruiter says you can't match my offers really?, etc.
    Dec 310
    • Amazon aSoL84
      Move on dude, dont even try w/ ppl wanting to fuck you over. HM is well aware of the offer being presented to you
      Dec 3
    • New ip00
      OP
      I've heard cases where the recruiter distort the truth, in the hope of moving to the 2nd choice candidate because that person will be cheaper. After all their job is to get the cheapest person to fill the role, which means their interest may not align with mine.
      Dec 3
    • Amazon aSoL84
      Never heard that in my life. Afaik, before recruiter gives you an offer, It needs to be at least approved by the HM, they can't just throw numbers out of their ass. Tell the recruiter to show the offer letter approved by HM
      Dec 3
    • New ip00
      OP
      I doubt this was approved by HM. There's no offer letter, just verbal offer and checking to see if their numbers was ok. Recruiter was definitely a fishing for numbers. Told me this was the default package, it took all my effort not to say WTF on the phone...

      At this rate I rather go for my other options..
      Dec 3
    • Amazon aSoL84
      Do you have any other offers?
      Dec 3
    • New ip00
      OP
      Yes I do. I'm bringing it up again during next discussion. While I'm not too keen on Amazon, maybe I will be a bit more open minded in the coming days.

      I still like the team though and honestly would come down a little for them, but the gap at least for the initial number is a bit far...
      Dec 3
    • Microsoft PNlg17
      Can you share you numbers for other offers?
      Dec 3
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      As an ms hiring manager for 10+ years I generally didnt have an idea what the exact offers were until the person joined my team. There were some negotiating scenarios where I'd find out but that wasnt the common case. Person from Amazon is full of shit (not surprising).

      The way it generally works is they have a range of preapproved offers for various situations at each level. If you wont accept their default offer (which is usually ass if you didnt have a competing offer from a big company), they'll counter with a higher one of those. If you dont accept a preapproved offer they will go to the hm and ask if they really want the person. If they do then theyll try to get a special offer approved by the vp (or designee manager). That last phase happened a handful of times that I can remember.
      Dec 3
    • New ip00
      OP
      What happens if the HM doesn't approve the special offer? And besides the industry low, is there like a better pre-approved offer?
      Dec 4
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      ^if the hm doesnt want you that badly then they will tell you the offer is top of the mark. Same with vp not approving, although in either case they may make a play for a slightly lesser offer. Bottom line if vp doesnt approve a special offer your stuck
      with the highest standard offer they can give. I honestly dont remember that ever happening for me. There were a few times where I said dont bother we have another candidate that's fine too but i dont ever remember a vp not approving an offer. That included those where we up-leveled the person from what the original position was (which also needs VP approval, generally speaking).

      Usually there are a range of standard offers. The initial is often a lowball if you dont have competing faang or faang experience there is usually more than one standard offer available above that.
      Dec 4
  • New / EngMSFT_fte
    Unbelievably low. Don't take it. Your counter is reasonable, although base still a bit low. Accept only if they approved your exact counter.
    Dec 30
  • Amazon OPHO14
    Last week, they low balled me too. Similary shitty offer for L62, 139/25/0, rejectected it outright. The offer was 30k lower than my current comp
    Dec 33
    • Amazon Troutt
      Wtf for real? 25k over 4 years?
      Dec 3
    • Amazon OPHO14
      Yeah 25k over 4 years
      Dec 3
    • Amazon Troutt
      They cant lowball if u coming from amazon. Whats ur current tc and yoe
      Dec 3
  • LinkedIn Lolllllll
    All above offers are standard, if you come from FAANG you might have leverage otherwise not so much. They might increase a little, but don’t expect much change. If you want higher salary interview with FB or Goog.
    Dec 32
    • New ip00
      OP
      So basically if I'm industry hire and from no name company, the best I can hope is for these numbers and not the ones on levels.fyi?
      Dec 3
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      That's not strictly true. That is just the initial offer. If you have better competing offers just tell.them that. They will negotiate.

      You can contact the hm but all they can do is ping the recruiter and ask how the negotiation is going and give support for you as a candidate.
      Dec 3
  • Microsoft @at
    Msft gives out 150k over 4 years to fresh college hires at level 59. After you get two year experience they don't offer much in hire stock unless you have a competing offer. The refresh at level 63 is ~17k each year spread out over 5.
    Dec 32
    • Microsoft pirU37
      They give that to very few college hires. It's far from the average new grad offer.
      Dec 3
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      Returning interns with high ratings, those with competing offers from competitor companies, great interview performance, advanced degree. Some combo of all 4 can net you 200k/4 with a 50k sign on.
      Dec 3
  • SpaceX uevh5
    Insultingly low balled. Same thing happened to me in the past. I told them it won't work and they upped it reasonably. Then I told them I just got a much better competing offer and they were forced to match it after giving me a higher level and going through VP approval.

    Stay your ground!
    Dec 30
  • Citrix Systems / EngRonaldfoot
    Op I am being low balled too l61 offer. Base 135. N rsu are a laughing stock. Got only 30k. N it’s the max
    Dec 30
  • Twitter / Eng
    TWT

    TwitterEng

    PRE
    Microsoft, LinkedIn
    TWTmore
    That’s so low I don’t see the floor no more
    Dec 30
  • Microsoft DOyu71
    Your ask is within the range of what l63s normally get. They will probably come back with something in the middle though. As a data point I've seen several l63 offers recently that were around 170/320/50. Competing faang etc offers are *very*helpful. If you like the team and and feel that you would have a good rapport with the manager, remember that is worth a lot as well.
    Dec 38
    • Amazon Troutt
      What if ur already on faang but hve no competing offers will they lowball u or will try to give u a very good pckage(more than ur current) just co u coming from faang
      Dec 3
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      Microsoft will always try to get you for as low as they think.they can. Its annoying but enough people say yes to lowballs that it's worth doing (I guess). That said, they will absolutely take your current compensation into account. Whether it will be a bit higher or lower than your current depends on a lot of factors (which faang, competitve factor, how various offer buckets match up etc.).
      Dec 3
    • Amazon Troutt
      If there can be a huge margin in offers doesnt that create a big range in buckets? Like if a faang person gets in at l62 with 260k tc but someone non faang accepts a low ball offer like the op? I thought everyone in the same bucket were not that segregated in tc
      Dec 3
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      There can be really wide gaps on initial offers. There can even be pretty big ranges internally based on performance. As an example an l63 could have a base of 145, get 15% bonus and target stock (17k). Or they could get a 30% bonus, max stock (43k) with 180 salary (relatively rare to get top awards and have top salary of course). That's a range of 184k to 276k.
      Dec 4
    • Amazon Troutt
      Is 250k a good ask for l62 coming from amazon sde 2 with two year exp at amazon and total 8 year exp and currently making 220k, or is it a stretch?
      Dec 4
    • Amazon Troutt
      I just completed my 1 year at Amazon and i plan yo move to msft after another year as the wlb there is much better. Im just curious what level and salary they will put me in with 2 year amazon exp and current tc of 220k
      Dec 4
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      ^^The best (assuming redmond) is about 145/220/50 for l62. That would give you about 244 k tc over the 4 years (not incl raises, promos and assuming target comp). That's a tough offer to get but not impossible. The 8 years total experience will help.
      Dec 4
    • Amazon Troutt
      145k is base, 50k stock per year and 50k bonus per year? I thought amazon bonus was only for first year
      Dec 4
  • Amazon OPHO14
    ip00 did they comeback with revised numbers ?
    Dec 62
    • New ip00
      OP
      Stay tuned. MSFT returned with 154/70/30. I'm waiting for Amazon numbers....
      Dec 7
    • Microsoft PNlg17
      Heh, not much better. What are your competing offers?
      6d
  • Amazon / Engkwq7812
    I had an L63 offer from Microsoft in August: 160k base/200k RSU.

    So, your counter is solid, but I don't know how much leverage you'll have. I had competing offers from FB and Snap (that they didn't know about) plus my existing job at Amazon (L6 with a post-four-year-cliff TC just short of 300k). To be honest, while my offer seems to be fairly decent (by their standards) for L63, I don't think they were that interested in me anyhow--I was interviewed as a run-of-the-mill generalist and the numbers were a joke (~50-70k short of my existing job, and ~100-140k short of the other offers), so I declined it almost immediately and didn't bother even thinking about a counter. I don't think they really cared, either.
    Dec 31
    • Microsoft DOyu71
      Yeah, that's the other thing. If you dont wow them in the interview your bargaining power is severely limited no matter where you come from or what other offers you have.
      Dec 3
  • Microsoft PNlg17
    Can you share your other offer’s compensation?
    Dec 50
  • Microsoft Shhebdj
    Microsoft has unlimited supply of good and experienced engineers from India office. Hiring managers get many more applications than US applicants and they seem content with the engineers moving from there. Most of managers are from India as well so there is no cultural barrier either. That means they can low ball you and don’t care if you reject it since there are many more qualified applicants waiting in the queue. Nowadays it is hard to find new experienced hires coming from anywhere else. New grad is a different story though.
    Dec 30
  • Facebook public2
    Rofl
    Dec 30

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