Microsoft L64 Offer

Bloomberg humans
Jun 15, 2018 83 Comments

Rate a msft offer :

Base : 170K
Stocks : 260K/4years
Sign on : 80K

Annual Refreshers :
Target bonus : 0-30%
Target Stocks : 0-48K

Recruiter said its a out of band L64 offer. I think they are down leveling on level. Not getting L65 is surprising because I nailed all the interviews. Had 6 or 7 rounds for 3 teams, target level : L64/65.

Total experience: 7 years
Current TC : 270K in NYC, leading a team for over a year now.

Waiting on my final Fb/G numbers but liked the team at MSFT overall. Will really appreciate any feedback on this. Anyway to get them for L65/principal? These are initial numbers.

And yes, I grew really fast in my career before anyone asks.

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TOP 83 Comments
  • Microsoft IEjP42
    That’s ridiculously high. 7 YOE is not L65.
    Jun 15, 2018 5
    • Microsoft bridges
      What does yoe mean? It’s used everywhere on blind but never explained.
      Jun 23, 2018
    • Microsoft bridges
      Years of experience!!
      Jun 23, 2018
    • Amazon Wayne
      Yeah. How come Satya became a CEO in 22 years? You should ask him. Despicable when folks just use number of years to blindly judge someone.
      Jun 27, 2018
    • Microsoft IEjP42
      Satya has 26 YOE at MSFT
      Jun 27, 2018
    • Amazon Wayne
      He became a CEO with 22 YOE at MS. Well, that’s not the point. Not all the folks in MS with 22 YOE became CEOs. So first shed this YOE hang over and begin to understand that the ‘E’ matters and not just the ‘Y’
      Jun 27, 2018
  • Microsoft / Eng
    Bollitas

    Microsoft Eng

    PRE
    Amazon, Google
    Bollitasmore
    Holy fuck yeah that’s a solid offer for L64
    Jun 15, 2018 0
  • Symantec GogoI
    Basically your second year target comp will be $264K
    FB/G will easily beat it on L5.
    MS will need to bump a level to compete and will not be able to match L5 comp even on L65.
    Jun 15, 2018 3
    • Microsoft / Eng
      Bollitas

      Microsoft Eng

      PRE
      Amazon, Google
      Bollitasmore
      Sure you’ll make more. You’ll also spend many nights leetcoding to land that dream job. Then if you get that offer, quickly realize you aren’t working on anything worth a shit and second guess your decisions. Prestigious right?
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      “orth a shit and second guess your decisions. Prestigious right?” : what are you referring to?
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Google sf.dpe
      Bollitas is super salty, eh?
      Jun 15, 2018
  • Amazon aAEU54
    lol Microsoft L63 only meet Amazon L5 bar. So this is nothing spectacular. Most of my friends became L63 in 5 years. But it's good that you are satisfied with your growth. I would still advice joining Google/Facebook/Amazon anyday over Microsoft. Btw majority of Amazon L6 make 300k+ . I know Google T4 making more than 300k as well
    Jun 15, 2018 7
    • Microsoft Pediasure
      I came to MS from amazon , I am much happier - but that’s because I used to work at Uber too - so Amazon felt like a heaven , till I moved to MS and I am happier
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Amazon aAEU54
      well I came to Amazon from Microsoft and I know why some people cannot survive Amazon culture. MS dream, you seem nuts to me lol. Amazon interviews aren't that tough but Microsoft interview process is a joke. @frtO64 you sound like an LE which Amazon weeded out lol
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Microsoft frtO64
      @aAEU54 I just passed college a year ago and I left Amazon in a year. So there goes your whole LE theory. Also did you even see the Amazon stock vesting period? Others Fangs have a decently stable stock with much better vesting options and stock grants so if you are stock greedy for Amazon, just sell your own much higher stock grant quickly as they vest and buy Amazon stock. Done. And also if you are paid decent, you don't need to wait to see your stocks earn you money. Secondly, who is stopping you from buying Amazon stocks wherever you work. So even i have Amazon stocks in my portfolio so there goes the only stock advantage anyone claims. See anyone can argue with any numbers of points and they will be very well countered cause after all its Amazon but the truth stays.
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Amazon aAEU54
      On a serious note, Amazon does hire average L4s from college but it treats it top employees really good. It promotes leadership and some people can thrive under it and some cannot. I have never worked more than 40 hours a week. Hear my story, I joined Microsoft right after college. I was surprised by the shit quality of engineers at Microsoft. Even some L63 at Microsoft were horrible technically. I left Microsoft after 2 years reaching only L60 and joined Amazon at L4 with starting L5 salary. I work average 40 hours a week. I look forward to going to work whereas I hated the shitty work as well as attitude at Microsoft. Long story short I made L5 at Amazon in a year and 3 months and then L5-L6 in 2 years
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Amazon / R&D ATTE75
      @aAEU54 which org?
      Dec 5, 2018
  • Microsoft parabola
    Excellent offer for 64. L65 level pay.
    Jun 15, 2018 3
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      any target numbers for L65 that you know of perhaps? Will help. :)
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Microsoft parabola
      250-275K range typically. Yearly target bonus and stocks slightly higher 0-40%, 0-72K but they are compensating you with stocks and a good sign on.
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      appreciate the transparency! thnx.
      Jun 15, 2018
  • Unity angstisme
    Microsoft always errs on the side of under leveling, because they don't want to hire someone into a level where they may not be promoted for a long time.

    This is especially true for l64, because promos at 65+ are slow and difficult.

    Depending on your trajectory, you may be better off taking that level 64 position and being in the top of the performers versus being in the bottom of the 65s, as bonus, etc may be better.

    But, you'll probably be most better off if you take a Facebook or Google offer.
    Jun 15, 2018 7
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      yeah.. It will.
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Unity angstisme
      If it's developer div, you're probably in good shape. Elsewhere, they're are certainly some traps
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      traps as in? lame work or bad career choice ?
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Microsoft jhhgff
      I don’t understand. If you need to struggle as a senior, principal band would be nightmare to you.
      Jun 16, 2018
    • Microsoft bbbNNN$$$
      If you think principal is somehow easier than senior, then I have bad news for you. With each level you get more and more work $ responsibilities. Some people eventually decide not to get promoted anymore, just to stay at their comfort level.
      Jun 20, 2018
  • Microsoft ToTheMoooo
    This is a low all offer for a 64
    Jun 15, 2018 3
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      whats a better offer then?
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Microsoft undefined
      No it is not
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Microsoft ToTheMoooo
      RSU is on low end. Can probably get another 30% and be at mid point
      Jun 15, 2018
  • Oracle Facebook!
    That's a solid offer from MS. What don't you wait for FB? Their E5 offers are better than any FANG.
    Jun 15, 2018 10
    • Microsoft Bazul
      Whoa whoa whoa, danger Will Robinson. Current MS culture is a LONG way from the one you're looking for "from when you were growing up"...no matter how old you are.
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      aah! thats sad! :/ I see a lot of concerns about MS culture from folks here.
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Microsoft Bravo!
      It really depends on the team. There's so many different product at MSFT targeting different industries that it's really hard to generalize the culture. I've worked on windows for a couple years now in azure and it feels like 2 completely different companies.
      Jun 16, 2018
    • Amazon / R&D ATTE75
      @Bravo! How do you like azure?
      Dec 5, 2018
    • Microsoft Shoshisho
      It's great. Much faster pace than windows.
      Dec 7, 2018
  • Bloomberg humans
    OP
    yeah, they said they can pay at principal level but not giving L65:( Dont think this is principal either.
    Jun 15, 2018 8
    • Microsoft undefined
      No it isn’t. If you’re significantly above target, it can be, but that’s not useful to consider here.

      Salary for 65 is ~180-190, target bonus is 20%, target stock is 36K over 5 years. That’s not 300k. Even if you say 190k base and have the full 36k vesting each year, that’s 264k.
      Jun 16, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng biddut
      I left as L65 and currently at FB E5. I was making $270k (as my initial stock grant fell off). New hires L65 makes $300k.

      I make about $360 at FB E5
      Jun 16, 2018
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      thnx. That helps. Is that fb comp in seattle or bay ?
      Jun 16, 2018
    • Microsoft / Eng biddut
      Seattle. FB pays same in Seattle and Bay Area
      Jun 16, 2018
    • Microsoft undefined
      As I said before, new hires with big stock grants are special. That’s what they meant by his L64 offer being at L65 pay. They meant his TC will be comparable to average people at L65 who’ve been at the company a while or didn’t get above-average sign-on grants. The standard stock grant offers for industry hires are 4-5x the target stock award at that level (basically jump starting your stock grants so that it’s as if you’ve been getting target at that level for 4-5 years). If you get something larger, then you’ll be doing better out of the gate than people who’ve been there and hitting target at that level.

      Leaving sign-on awards out of it, getting above target rewards at 65 can definitely get you to 300k or a bit beyond.
      Jun 16, 2018
  • Microsoft melv
    If you get an offer from Google or FB take it. They give garbage stock refreshes at msft .

    Level 64 targets 24k stock per year spread out over 5 years. Level 65 is 35.

    Ask the recruiter what the stock levels are for your level and compare to goog/fb.
    Jun 16, 2018 1
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      i mentioned what they offered for refresher. kind of low for sure.
      Jun 16, 2018
  • Microsoft parabola
    I agree. High comp at 64 is good position to be in. And if you are good they will promote, which is how they keep talent, and you build momentum if you are considering a long term career in the company. 65 will make you feel great but you may be under pressure and scrutiny too early.
    Jun 16, 2018 0
  • Microsoft JayZee
    I would say you do not want to come in as a L65. Competition at that level is high and folks usually have >10yr of exp. I have the same experience as you, all at Microsoft and am still an L63
    Jun 15, 2018 0
  • Microsoft / Eng
    Dhxjsjjn

    Microsoft Eng

    BIO
    Hate coding quizzes but studying hard for better future!
    Dhxjsjjnmore
    Think about this. If you join Microsoft and get promoted to L65 after a few years, and when you move to Google, FB or Amazon, they will give you senior title only. When you join G or FB, and get promoted to L6 or E6, you will move as equivalent level at other companies or high level principal at Microsoft (L67 or even partner).
    Jun 17, 2018 1
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      yup makes sense! thnx
      Jun 18, 2018
  • Google Rubadub
    Are you moving out of nyc ?
    Jun 15, 2018 1
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      I dont mind. Seen enough. :)
      Jun 15, 2018
  • Microsoft littlebl
    Fantastic offer for 64. I'm 64 and barely make 230
    Jun 17, 2018 0
  • Microsoft / Eng biddut
    Base can be improved. Ask for $185k base and $300k stock
    Jun 16, 2018 0
  • Microsoft globalist
    Not an engineer so take this with the pound of salt it comes with....

    It seems to me that, based on conversations on blind, you're better off taking an offer from Fb/G at this time. If you're resume/career building, they show up better than MS does currently. Plus, it seems top be easier to move to MS from Fb/G than vice versa. You can also use any pending stock vesting to negotiate with MS if you want to switch.
    Jun 16, 2018 0
  • Microsoft msboy
    Good offer but go to G or F
    Jun 15, 2018 0
  • Microsoft anonseatle
    As others have said, bringing you in at 64 is really a good thing for you. The pressure to perform at 65 starts day 1 and you will have no time or room to learn.

    At 64, you can take the time to learn your space, get to know peers and the organization without any review pressure. Not uncommon to get promo'd to 65 the next year once you've got your feet under you.
    Jun 17, 2018 2
    • Microsoft fEia50
      That’s not true - the avg time is 2-3 years to move up to 65
      Aug 13, 2018
    • Microsoft anonseatle
      Average yes. If you're coming in operating at a 65 level, you'll move up in less.
      Aug 13, 2018
  • Microsoft Dhdjrjrjr
    My 64 offer was 185k, 200k/4 years, and $60k sign on. So you could try for more base.
    Jun 15, 2018 2
    • Bloomberg humans
      OP
      thanks. Appreciate it. Did you feel you were down leveled or were you aiming for L64?
      Jun 15, 2018
    • Microsoft Dhdjrjrjr
      Yes, I was absolutely brought in under level but my manager may have done me a favor. Adjusting to MS is hard. Getting top rewards at 64 is easy for me and some say getting target rewards at 65 is much harder. The comp between the two is not much different.
      Jun 16, 2018

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