Microsoft SWE 61 level initial Offer

Amazon sugz87
May 22 96 Comments

140k base, 25k sign on, 30k stock over four years, 20% of base salary for yearly bonus. It’s based in Redmond.

I feel like sign on and stock is low. How much should I counter it? Also I live in NYC so I’ll have to relocate, which’ll be a big move for me. Thanks in advance!

Updated: bumped to 62 level, 150k base, 50k sign on, 125k stock plus 13.5k relocation.

comments

Want to comment? LOG IN or SIGN UP
TOP 96 Comments
  • Google Mmkaay
    Stock should be $100k-$200k, but without competing offers you don’t have negotiation powers
    May 22 11
    • Google Mmkaay
      We need numbers to evaluate
      May 23
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      150k base, 50k sign on, 125k stock plus 13.5k relocation
      May 23
    • Google Mmkaay
      That’s much better. You need to thank Blind :). Blind is extremely useful
      May 23
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      Yes, I really appreciate you guys help and will do my best to help others as well. Thank you!
      May 23
    • Google Mmkaay
      You’re welcome. Congrats :)
      May 23
  • Microsoft
    DvRC04

    Microsoft

    PRE
    TripAdvisor, FactSet
    DvRC04more
    I accepted the similar offer about 2 years ago. I got a good relocation package of about 12K on top and base was 130K.

    I moved from NYC and it wasn’t worth it. Moving was hassle and Seattle isn’t any cheaper as it used to be.

    I would recommend to just decline the offer and get a counter offer. If you can get offer once then you can get it again.
    May 22 11
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      I do hear you can have up to 9% as stock bonus, which you can vest in 5 years or so. Amazon doesn’t have this type of refresher stuff
      May 22
    • Microsoft ~}{#%€|_%*
      Refresher is very poor as well. That's actually the main complain people make here. As 61 your annual refresher will be 6500$ worth of stock which will vest in 5 years. Do the math.
      May 22
    • Nvidia / Eng Mr.XoXo
      Is SSA guaranteed every year?
      May 22
    • Microsoft ~}{#%€|_%*
      Not at all. It's for outstanding performers. Don't count it as a usual thing.
      May 22
    • Microsoft photoshop1
      I did get an SSA for about 100K last year, that is the only reason I am still staying. However, I still feel as compared to other companies the pay is low.

      I think companies don't understand that giving subpar compensation demotivates employees.
      May 24
  • Citrix Systems / Eng peda
    Without competing offers difficult!! Dm me for more info.
    May 22 0
  • Amazon Jd8xye
    20% bonus seems a bit stretched. You probably need to be a top performer to get that.
    May 22 4
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      Yeah that does, probably up to 20% and recruiter is playing the game
      May 22
    • Microsoft / Eng FredMeyer
      Yes it’s up to 20% and even if you perform at your best, it depends on the team how much folks get
      May 22
    • Microsoft / Eng FredMeyer
      Mostly it’s given as 10%
      May 22
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      That sounds more reasonable. Thanks for the info
      May 22
  • Microsoft MQYK67
    For sign on you can request 30k+.
    Stock is to low in your offer. 120k+. Maybe 200k for new offers. Recent hires can give a better estimate.
    May 22 3
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      What?? That’s huge gap for stock. Why would Microsoft do that
      May 22
    • Microsoft MQYK67
      Hope this helps. My final offer 15 months ago for 61 swe: 135k base. 35k sign on bonus. 108k stocks. Relo 12.5k (they matched the tax). I had a competing offer. Best of luck.
      May 22
    • Citrix Systems / Eng peda
      Mqyk67 are you at msft still ? Or did you leave ?
      May 22
  • Microsoft / Product Ultat
    What is your tc at Amazon right now in nyc?
    May 22 9
    • Microsoft / Eng WreckTrain
      Sure. 160k base salary, 16k cash bonus, 100k stock vest this year (400k over 4 years in initial offer). In addition I also got a 50k cash joining bonus which I'm not counting in my tc.
      May 24
    • eBay / Eng cutter
      Woah, I have never seen such RSUs from Microsoft. Congrats to you. Could you please DM me. I need your help in negotiating my offer. Really appreciate it.
      May 24
    • Microsoft / Eng WreckTrain
      Sure. Microsoft can pay a lot if you have counter offers and they want you. Of course watch our for the cliff 4 years later. I don't plan to stick around more than that time anyway.
      May 24
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      Wow that RSUs are insane
      May 24
    • Amazon kox87
      Hi WreckTrain, are there any concern about joining a competitor? Did you sign the non competition agreement from AWS?
      May 30
  • Microsoft Verso L’alto
    I’m a 61 and I’m not even breaking 100...fml
    May 23 4
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      Sorry man. How come?
      May 23
    • New / Eng Tc270Nw150
      100 TC???
      May 23
    • Microsoft / Eng WreckTrain
      Probably not an engineer?
      May 24
    • Microsoft Verso L’alto
      Right, presumably due to being a functional role (PM) must have a much lower payscale vs SWE.. I’m based in a Svs mid payscale..
      May 24
  • Amazon mm14yu
    Isn't 61 the lower of the two SDE2 levels? Base is solid. Sign on is decent. RSU grant is neither solid nor decent--but Microsoft is very well known for that at this point.

    FWIW, real baseline market rate for a solid SDE2 in the Seattle area is around 160-200k all-in. You've been offered closer to 160k, which is the bottom of that range. It's not a huge ask to push it to 180-190, but I don't know if they'll play ball with you without competing offers.

    I'm pretty well convinced that when it comes to industry hires, MSFT deliberately targets people from secondary markets who aren't familiar with or don't understand equity-heavy compensation models, and then throws up a competitive base and little else. But...given that you're coming from Amazon and NYC in general, they should figure you know better, so I dunno.
    May 22 3
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      Thanks for the insights!! Well, as far as I know this is a typical standard offer for this level for MSFT. Some of the other folks in the same event who got offered exactly the same numbers. I guess it’ll all depends on negotiation and computing offers, or if I’m willing to walk away. For me, I have no desire to move across the country if it’s just a typical offer. Plus I wasn’t interviewing actively and did it because recruiter contacted me first
      May 22
    • Amazon mm14yu
      Yeah, I wouldn't move here for that offer as-is unless you have some particularly compelling reason to come to Seattle--and in that case, you could always transfer within Amazon. They DO offer relo packages to internal transfers and you will keep your entire equity grant (only base will change to suit the new market, wherever it is).

      Note that Amazon typically pays a lot more than Microsoft at SDE2 and above, though there are outliers (e.g. people coming FROM Amazon where MSFT has to beat their current comp to lure them in). Also, don't buy the WLB hype--the people I know who work in the high-growth parts of Microsoft (most of Azure, for example) are putting in substantial hours; anybody genuinely coasting is probably working on some backwater legacy product and is either already looking to retire, or is throwing their career away in the process.
      May 23
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      Thanks for your info man! They came back with a 62 level offer urgg
      May 23
  • Microsoft Trai
    I think you should negotiate on stocks and get a 2nd year sign on as well. I'm 59 and we make the same TC
    May 22 3
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      Wow! Good for you! Thanks for the info. What numbers would you recommend to start with?
      May 22
    • Microsoft Trai
      I'm guessing 150 or 180K. I have to say I have been lucky with offers, all my offers are usually high. Get an offer from a Hedge Fund and it opens all kinds of doors
      May 22
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      30k stock is a joke. Because of that I seems like have to ask for 5 times more than time, kinda ridiculous
      May 22
  • eBay / Eng
    #yolo

    eBay Eng

    PRE
    Microsoft
    #yolomore
    Yoe?
    May 22 1
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      1.5 years in US, 3 years outside US. No gap in between
      May 22
  • Activision Blizzard aqEO87
    What is the job title/position? Do you also get a relocation package? That is worth it's weight in gold some times.
    May 22 1
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      Swe 61 level. The recruiter didn’t mention the relocation package
      May 22
  • Microsoft aCCX36
    Happens all the time
    Hey
    May 23 0
  • Microsoft Trai
    You might not have to negotiate much. I said I wasn't happy with the offer and the recruiter bumped my stocks after speaking to the team that day. I didn't have to share my competing offer.
    May 22 0
  • Microsoft ((($)))
    Already too high
    May 22 0
  • Amazon zzcczz
    30k stocked for 4 years? That’s too low. Amazon SDE2 earns much more than that.
    May 22 0
  • Amazon sugz87
    OP
    150k base, 50k sign on first year, 125k stock and up to 20% yearly bonus and 13.5k relocation
    May 23 13
    • Amazon kox87
      Urgg. So what’ll be on the offer letter? I never got to see the offer letter before give a verbal yes or no. It’ll be something like a lump sum of $13,500 grossed up for taxes?
      May 28
    • Microsoft aCCX36
      Yep
      May 28
    • Amazon kox87
      I believe the recruiter told me I’ll have to pay tax for that, just like sign on bonus, which mean I’ll probably get less than 10k for that after tax.
      May 28
    • Microsoft aCCX36
      I am pretty sure you will get taxes as well. It was a surprise for me as well.
      May 28
    • Amazon kox87
      It says 13500 payable on your first pay check
      May 28
  • eBay / Eng cutter
    @OP
    Do you have any competing offers?
    May 23 3
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      I don’t actually but I’m willing to walk away initially
      May 24
    • eBay / Eng cutter
      What did you tell the recruiter?
      May 24
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      Not going to move forward for that offer
      May 25
  • Citrix Systems / Eng peda
    Hi DvRC04 are you still at msft ?
    May 22 2
    • Microsoft
      DvRC04

      Microsoft

      PRE
      TripAdvisor, FactSet
      DvRC04more
      Yes. I got a good stock about year ago 70k in SSA and above average performance reviews along with promotion. Looks like I am going to be here till I get better at Golf.
      May 22
    • Citrix Systems / Eng peda
      How did you get ssa?
      May 22
  • Microsoft aCCX36
    Numbers ?
    May 23 1
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      See above
      May 23
  • Microsoft aCCX36
    My l62 offer an year ago : 150, 60, 125
    May 23 1
    • Amazon sugz87
      OP
      They offered pretty much the same later, except 50k sign on
      May 23

Salary
Comparison

    Real time salary information from verified employees